CWmike writes "Submitting to mounting legal pressure, Craigslist has announced that it will remove the Erotic Services category from its classified advertising Web site within seven days. The move comes just two and a half weeks after Jim Buckmaster, CEO of Craigslist, told Computerworld that the company had no intention of removing the category. While it's taking down the category, it will be launching a new category called Adult Services, for which each posting will be manually reviewed before it appears. 'Unsurprisingly, but completely contrary to some of the sensationalistic journalism we've seen these past few weeks, the record is clear that use of Craigslist classifieds is associated with far lower rates of violent crime than print classifieds, let alone rates of violent crime pertaining to American society as a whole,' said Buckmaster in a blog post today. 'We are optimistic that the new balance struck today will be an acceptable compromise from the perspective of the constituencies, and for the diverse US communities that value and rely upon Craigslist.'"
From what I read of CL's lawyers earlier releases, it seemed that they could indeed have withstood and won any court battles that would have come their way. I was hoping some good precedents would have been set....
That's a bit unrealistic. Not many businesses would try to fight for their rights under the first amendment when they're facing an opponent with a limitless tax-funded litigation budget.
The practical effect of this will be nil; anyone who wants to advertise prostitution will just find another web site, probably one located outside the USA.
The practical effect of this will be nil; anyone who wants to advertise prostitution will just find another web site, probably one located outside the USA.
Don't underestimate the ability for current CL users to 'create' their own language when posting ads.
My guess; not much changes in the 'services', just what they are called.
I know it. there is a site where people are telling everyone they are committing a crime, and how to get in touch with them, and they want to shut it down?
Of course because you're outlawing something you have no business outlawing, you drive it underground and force up prices (thus enticing more people into the act you want to ban) and make it dangerous for all involved. Instead of blasting CL for allowing the ads, they should be rethinking the law making the ads illegal in the first place. It's not like legalizing this would lead to the collapse of society... even the Church at one point allowed it.
It's not like legalizing this would lead to the collapse of society... even the Church at one point allowed it.
If by "this" you mean prostitution, rather than the posting of ads, then I venture that the collapse of society isn't the whole issue here.
Does society collapse when a hooker gets beaten up by a weirdo? Does society collapse when a bunch of Chinese girls get brought over in a shipping crate to work in a brothel? Does society collapse when a college girl's boyfriend tells her that if she wants to keep the coke coming she needs to turn a few tricks, and it will only be just once or twice? Or, when these things happen, does society just keep on humming the way it always has and nobody needs to give a damn, yet alone raise a finger?
The problem I have is not with prostitution per se, but with half-assed attempts to decriminalize prostitution that contribute to making the situation worse. There's a lot of human misery involved in the sex trade right now. Maybe legalizing prostitution will do away with all of it -- for the sake of argument, let's assume that it will. But until prostitution is really and honestly legalized, for Craigslist to allow posting of prostitution ads now is to support the sex trade as it exists right now, and I can't say I'm really for that.
Does society collapse when a hooker gets beaten up by a weirdo? Does society collapse when a bunch of Chinese girls get brought over in a shipping crate to work in a brothel? Does society collapse when a college girl's boyfriend tells her that if she wants to keep the coke coming she needs to turn a few tricks, and it will only be just once or twice?
I'm not sure about your Chinese girls in a shipping crate example, I think that's more of a customs issue than anything else. It shouldn't be permitted to ship human beings in a crate regardless of why you're doing it.
As for the hooker getting beat up by a weirdo, if prostitution is legal she would call the cops just like anybody else who got beaten up by a weirdo during the course of their job.
As for the college girl, if her coke was available for a reasonable price at the local pharmacy then it's just her choice whether she has sex for money or gets a job in the dining hall or the student center. If her boyfriend is pressuring her into prostitution she can certainly say no. If he uses force she could just call the cops. If she knows that her prostitution and coke use are perfectly legal why wouldn't she call the cops about her abusive boyfriend. Its the wars on drugs and prostitution that keep her more afraid of the cops than of her abusive boyfriend.
Of course it wouldn't be a bad idea to spend some tax money on offering free rehab clinics for people who want to quit using drugs (or indeed cigarettes or alcohol). You could pay for a heck of a lot of rehab clinics with the money saved by not running the police departments as paramilitary organizations engaged in a permanent war with heavily armed drug dealers.
I personally have no interest in using drugs. I don't like anything stronger than ibuprofen and I'll often just put up with a headache rather than taking a tylenol. But I don't like the government prohibiting people from voluntarily taking whatever drugs they wish. It's one thing if somebody slips something in your drink, then you should be able to press charges and have them thrown in jail. But if you put the pill in your own mouth or the needle in your own arm it's none of the government's damn business.
Yeah, but you missed my point. Prostitution isn't legal and you can't get coke at a pharmacy. So let's lobby for the right things here. Lobby for legalized prostitution, lobby for free cocaine for everybody for all I care -- but don't lobby for Craigslist to be allowed to support the existing black markets for coke and women. Whether you consider vice crimes to be victimless crimes or not, right now there are a lot of really rotten people who profit from those markets, and some of the profits go towards other things that you might like a lot less than you like hookers n' blow.
Sure, feel free to speculate. But have you ever been to San Francisco? It's commonplace here. Most of the Chinese-operated massage parlors are semi-tolerated brothels. Law enforcement has ongoing concerns about human trafficking, [sfgate.com] but it's hard to prove when the proprietors and the sex workers all deny it. (And why wouldn't they?)
Of course nobody is going to post an ad on Craigslist that says, "Truckload of Chinese virgins! Bulk pricing! Serious buyers only!"
The fact that so many "enlightened, sex-positive people" are so willing to wish this kind of stuff into the cornfield is precisely what makes the sex trade so insidious. But if you come to my city -- or any city -- walk its streets and really get to know it, you'll understand that the realities of prostitution for most of the participants are not nearly as pretty as the "independent sex worker entrepreneur" crowd will tell you.
I'm willing to bet that the ability to post ads on Craigslist really does cut down on some of the danger and crime associated with prostitution for some women. That still doesn't make me comfortable with it.
And yet if you do your history, the Roman Catholic church did (this was before ML).
Catholic priests participating in prostitution is far different from the Roman Catholic Church having a policy approving it. BTW, I wasn't trolling above, I was hoping that someone could supply any support for that argument.
This is true. The crazier bible-belt folks (like the kind that create recordings for us plebeians to listen to after the rapture because they ARE SO RIGHTEOUS that they are sure to be taken) often do believe Catholicism to be a cult or worse. There are even stories of certain book stores in the south shelving books written by a Pope under the "occult" section.
The more sane Protestants don't teach that. As a matter of fact, IIRC from Methodist confirmation classes long ago the Pastor taught me that all the branches of Christianity had more in common than they had differences and that they were getting closer in their beliefs all the time.
Like the difference between Republicans and Democrats a certain number of blowhards like to put wedges in the differences and push as hard as they can.
A statement as broad as yours requires more than a couple of anecdotal links to back it up. All your links prove is that *some* Protestants don't believe Catholics are Christians. You imply it's the general rule, which I'll be generous and assume means a simple majority. FYI, I've also attended well over a dozen churches across the spectrum on a regular basis over the years. I would agree that some of the fundamentalist Protestants might believe a statement as strongly worded as that. However, I suspect even in those communities that if you gave them a choice between "Catholics aren't Christian" and "Catholics have lots of wrong beliefs but are Christians if they believe Jesus is Lord" you'd get a lot of people picking the second statement. That said, it would be a mistake to assume that Protestants are "generally" fundamentalist, there are a *lot* of mainstream Protestant denominations across the world which get along just fine with Catholics.
ML is the Muggle League. It's the non-magical Quidditch league. It's not really as popular as the real one since it's just a bunch of people running around with brooms between their legs throwing balls at each other. Kind of a really sad form of LARPing, in fact.
I'm not quite sure why the OP would bring it up though. Martin Luther actually would have made more sense in context;-)
You know, I constantly hear this about all of the victimless crimes we have on the books today, and it really pisses me off. Why in the hell is the government entitled to tribute for refraining from interfering in something that's none of their business in the first place?
I want the drug war to end. I don't want the end of the drug war to mean that governments get billions in new tax revenues, in fact I want the taxpayers to get back the money we waste on the drug war now.
Why in the hell is the government entitled to tribute for refraining from interfering in something that's none of their business in the first place?
Does the government have a right to tax at all? Do they have a right to tax some things, but not this? Why would this be none of their business? Is anything their business to tax?
If you want things ( maybe one day recreational drugs and prostitution ) to stay safe and enjoyable , we need taxes for police, courts, FDAs, and public infrastructure like roads, electricity, and sewers, etc.
For all their self-righteousness, I never have heard of any libertarians moving to the middle of the Amazon or Somalia. Somalia has been free of the tyranny of government and taxes going on twenty years now.
anyone who would argue for the legalization of cocaine is either ignorant or stupid.
Let me stop you right there, and point out your own ignorance and stupidity. Cocaine was an over-the-counter drug once, and we didn't have anyone getting shot over it. An addict needs treatment, not prosecution.
Try googling for "portugal drug decriminalization", read and learn.
That is what I'd don't understand about law enforcement antipathy to the project.
"Hey guys! There's this site where you can, like, look at pictures of hookers all day, and set up stings, all from the comfort of your desk!" "Wow, we'd better shut that one down." Srsly? Why?
The truth is despite all their "concern" about craigslist, law enforcement isn't really interested in any major effort to investigate and prosecute prostitutes, they just want to hide it.
If somebody was posting ads on Craigslist that said, "I will have sex with you at your home in exchange for $150", and the Craigslist admins knew about it and ignored it - There would be a problem.
Isn't there some sort of legal exclusion for user-generated content? I thought, while the user can be held liable, as long as Craigslist employees aren't doing the posting, they're not legally responsible for content posted by their users? Just like Slashdot wouldn't be liable if I post DeCSS or something along those lines.
They'll probably just move back into the personals ads on Craigslist.
They've been there all along, even with the availability of erotic services sections. Check ads in the personals sections for phrases like "roses required" or "seeking generous man".
Actually, there were already quite a few services like Craigslist for escorts before Craigslist got big.
In many areas, the erotic services section isn't used. I've browsed around it for giggles.
I've known a few people in the industry (no, not by soliciting their services). Craigslist is generally considered a newbie trashy way to advertise. Good escorts already have better methods.
And no, I won't post any links.:) Go find them yourselves you pervs.
By forcing Craigslist to shut down their ads, it's really sent all of those providers off to other means of advertising, which means law enforcement will have to go hunting again. It was a stupid logistics idea. Law enforcement will never stop prostitution, but it looks good to the public to have a decent number of busts. Why kill your easy method of facilitating busts. It's a freakin' list of "we can arrest these people tonight", rather than really hunting them down.
It'd be like if there was a "Drug Services" section, that crack dealers were listing in. They could brag that they've increased their drug related arrests by 1000%. People will still buy and sell illegal drugs, all they can hope to do is encourage a few people out of the business, and keep the public believing that they're doing all they can do.
I don't like the idea of going to jail, so I don't deal with any industries that would put me there. I do know people who do though, so I can learn second hand of what happens. If you sit down and listen to some of these people, you'd be amazed at how well thought out some parts are. Then again, other parts are handled stupidly, and those are the people you hear about getting arrested. Some busts are just dumb luck.
What's really going to suck is when all those ads start showing up in other sections of craigslist, cluttering it even futher. They actually made the problem worse. Whack-a-mole, yes, but in this case, after you whacked the mole, it just splattered all over the place and it's even more of a mess than it was before. At least with the "Erotic Services" section, the problem was condensed and confined to one single section, at least for the most part.
If you're too lazy to stop the crime, just stop the communication.
You would think that police departments would LOVE craigslist. The criminals are actually posting their photos on the web. Could they make your job any easier???
I don't think this is going to have any serious effect on Craigslist. They are just changing the name of the service and putting reviewers in place.
We should look at why these sorts of services run into trouble with the law. The reasons run from good to terrible.
These ads lead to exploitation of children by pimps? If so, good reason.
These ads lead to exploitation of women by pimps? I had heard the internet had largely done away with pimps because sex workers can market themselves. Is that so?
These ads lead to murder and mayhem. But then again, that has been happening with Craigslist used-car ads - what better way to lure a victim to bring a roll of cash?
These ads lead to disease?
A supernatural being postulated by your religion has given you rules about sex that you feel should apply to everyone. Bad reason.
Rather than think of it as protecting people from themselves, think of it as protecting the weak from the powerful. Women are in some cases subjugated by men. And then there's the whole poverty, addiction, prostitution cycle.
All of that said, some of the reason we're running into this is because of problems that society isn't willing to handle. You can start with the horribly bungled handling of poverty in the U.S., which seems to have been designed to promote bad social values and create a perpetual client class.
Before, craigslist could easily claim they were not responsible for content, and that has been the line for quite some time. Now they are going to -manually- review every entry in a particular section? That seems insane to me. They are giving up the most important protection that they have, for no gain at all and a lot of extra work.
Casual Encounters is full of posts for "Generou$" "$afe" "Ro$e$" etc. Most posts are spam; I managed to get 10 real people talking to me one day, and 9 were whores looking for $100-$180/hour. (I didn't have sex with the 10th, she was hot but we kind of talked for a bit and that was it.) One said she desperately wanted to suck a dick and then told me there was a "donation of 100 roses" required. Most of the posts are hookers.
I am Mrs Melissa Pointy the wife of Mr Harry Pointy, my husband worked with the Chevron/Texaco in Kenya for twenty years before he lost the use of his penis due to an industrial accident in the year 2001. We have been married for ten years without a child. He is the second son of the late John Pointer, who was a Nigerian Prince. His father left him the sum of $3.5 MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS but he cannot collect until he has a child.
If you would be so kind as to have sex with me until I conceive I will pay you a 10% gratuity for your troubles.
To obtain tickets to Nigeria please contact me so I can have my attorney send you instructions to buy airline tickets and pay for lodging.
As soon as I receive your reply I shall give you the contact of my attorney who is in Europe as he will be the one to assist you this endeavor.
This is all about the First Amendment! Just last month I was arrested for offering to sell cocaine to an undercover cop - I never even sold him the drugs! And when I offered him pictures of naked underage boys and girls if he'd let me go - Things only got worse!
Blatant violation of my right to free speech. If this keeps up, I'll shoot the president.
[Special note to the Secret Service - This was an attempt at sarcasm/humor. Please don't kill me.]
It's no so much about difference of opinion. The key word here is 'solicitation'. Examples of things that you can (I believe) be arrested for saying: * "You wanna buy some weed?" * "If you'll give me $20, I'll give you head." * "If you can come up with a porno starring a 6 year old, I'll pay you $250." * "If you'll shoot my wife, I'll give you $500." And, even though I disagree with the laws barring the first couple of cases, solicitation of a crime is a crime. And, in the latter two examples, I think that it's for a good reason, as grave harm could come about just because of something that somebody said. You're free to express opinions - Even unpopular ones, but not to solicit criminal activity.
The police in various districts have done CL stings repeatedly. Seems like here in Portland it's in the news every 3 months or so...cops rent a hotel room and answer ads, girls are busted. Or vice versa. It apparently hasn't shut this down. Police have been busting streetwalkers for years and yet you still see them on the corners of major cities...
CL switched to requiring phone verification for this category of ads. Then they started charging $5 to list. And now they're dropping it altogether.
I would think this was all business-driven - an evaluation that the hassle costs more than the revenue - but CL has no revenue. In fact, I don't think CL has any actual business model....it's just free ads for whoever wants them. You're probably right that it's the lawsuit threats that are driving them out of this.
Unemployment Rates (Score:5, Funny)
Oh no, now we're sure to see a spike in the unemployment rates as all the hookers file as first-timers.
Re:Unemployment Rates (Score:5, Insightful)
From what I read of CL's lawyers earlier releases, it seemed that they could indeed have withstood and won any court battles that would have come their way. I was hoping some good precedents would have been set....
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Re:Unemployment Rates (Score:4, Funny)
I'm sure lots of slashdotters were hoping CL would fight this one. Without easy access to hookers, many slashdotters would never get laid.
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Re:Unemployment Rates (Score:4, Insightful)
I was really hoping they'd fight this one.
That's a bit unrealistic. Not many businesses would try to fight for their rights under the first amendment when they're facing an opponent with a limitless tax-funded litigation budget.
The practical effect of this will be nil; anyone who wants to advertise prostitution will just find another web site, probably one located outside the USA.
-jcr
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Re:Unemployment Rates (Score:5, Interesting)
The practical effect of this will be nil; anyone who wants to advertise prostitution will just find another web site, probably one located outside the USA.
Don't underestimate the ability for current CL users to 'create' their own language when posting ads.
My guess; not much changes in the 'services', just what they are called.
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Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
I know it. there is a site where people are telling everyone they are committing a crime, and how to get in touch with them, and they want to shut it down?
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course because you're outlawing something you have no business outlawing, you drive it underground and force up prices (thus enticing more people into the act you want to ban) and make it dangerous for all involved. Instead of blasting CL for allowing the ads, they should be rethinking the law making the ads illegal in the first place. It's not like legalizing this would lead to the collapse of society... even the Church at one point allowed it.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not like legalizing this would lead to the collapse of society... even the Church at one point allowed it.
If by "this" you mean prostitution, rather than the posting of ads, then I venture that the collapse of society isn't the whole issue here.
Does society collapse when a hooker gets beaten up by a weirdo? Does society collapse when a bunch of Chinese girls get brought over in a shipping crate to work in a brothel? Does society collapse when a college girl's boyfriend tells her that if she wants to keep the coke coming she needs to turn a few tricks, and it will only be just once or twice? Or, when these things happen, does society just keep on humming the way it always has and nobody needs to give a damn, yet alone raise a finger?
The problem I have is not with prostitution per se, but with half-assed attempts to decriminalize prostitution that contribute to making the situation worse. There's a lot of human misery involved in the sex trade right now. Maybe legalizing prostitution will do away with all of it -- for the sake of argument, let's assume that it will. But until prostitution is really and honestly legalized, for Craigslist to allow posting of prostitution ads now is to support the sex trade as it exists right now, and I can't say I'm really for that.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Informative)
Does society collapse when a hooker gets beaten up by a weirdo? Does society collapse when a bunch of Chinese girls get brought over in a shipping crate to work in a brothel? Does society collapse when a college girl's boyfriend tells her that if she wants to keep the coke coming she needs to turn a few tricks, and it will only be just once or twice?
I'm not sure about your Chinese girls in a shipping crate example, I think that's more of a customs issue than anything else. It shouldn't be permitted to ship human beings in a crate regardless of why you're doing it.
As for the hooker getting beat up by a weirdo, if prostitution is legal she would call the cops just like anybody else who got beaten up by a weirdo during the course of their job.
As for the college girl, if her coke was available for a reasonable price at the local pharmacy then it's just her choice whether she has sex for money or gets a job in the dining hall or the student center. If her boyfriend is pressuring her into prostitution she can certainly say no. If he uses force she could just call the cops. If she knows that her prostitution and coke use are perfectly legal why wouldn't she call the cops about her abusive boyfriend. Its the wars on drugs and prostitution that keep her more afraid of the cops than of her abusive boyfriend.
Of course it wouldn't be a bad idea to spend some tax money on offering free rehab clinics for people who want to quit using drugs (or indeed cigarettes or alcohol). You could pay for a heck of a lot of rehab clinics with the money saved by not running the police departments as paramilitary organizations engaged in a permanent war with heavily armed drug dealers.
I personally have no interest in using drugs. I don't like anything stronger than ibuprofen and I'll often just put up with a headache rather than taking a tylenol. But I don't like the government prohibiting people from voluntarily taking whatever drugs they wish. It's one thing if somebody slips something in your drink, then you should be able to press charges and have them thrown in jail. But if you put the pill in your own mouth or the needle in your own arm it's none of the government's damn business.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure, feel free to speculate. But have you ever been to San Francisco? It's commonplace here. Most of the Chinese-operated massage parlors are semi-tolerated brothels. Law enforcement has ongoing concerns about human trafficking, [sfgate.com] but it's hard to prove when the proprietors and the sex workers all deny it. (And why wouldn't they?)
Of course nobody is going to post an ad on Craigslist that says, "Truckload of Chinese virgins! Bulk pricing! Serious buyers only!"
The fact that so many "enlightened, sex-positive people" are so willing to wish this kind of stuff into the cornfield is precisely what makes the sex trade so insidious. But if you come to my city -- or any city -- walk its streets and really get to know it, you'll understand that the realities of prostitution for most of the participants are not nearly as pretty as the "independent sex worker entrepreneur" crowd will tell you.
I'm willing to bet that the ability to post ads on Craigslist really does cut down on some of the danger and crime associated with prostitution for some women. That still doesn't make me comfortable with it.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:4, Insightful)
And yet if you do your history, the Roman Catholic church did (this was before ML).
Catholic priests participating in prostitution is far different from the Roman Catholic Church having a policy approving it. BTW, I wasn't trolling above, I was hoping that someone could supply any support for that argument.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
[Citation needed]
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
Wikipedia style.
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:4, Insightful)
This is true. The crazier bible-belt folks (like the kind that create recordings for us plebeians to listen to after the rapture because they ARE SO RIGHTEOUS that they are sure to be taken) often do believe Catholicism to be a cult or worse. There are even stories of certain book stores in the south shelving books written by a Pope under the "occult" section.
The more sane Protestants don't teach that. As a matter of fact, IIRC from Methodist confirmation classes long ago the Pastor taught me that all the branches of Christianity had more in common than they had differences and that they were getting closer in their beliefs all the time.
Like the difference between Republicans and Democrats a certain number of blowhards like to put wedges in the differences and push as hard as they can.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
A statement as broad as yours requires more than a couple of anecdotal links to back it up. All your links prove is that *some* Protestants don't believe Catholics are Christians. You imply it's the general rule, which I'll be generous and assume means a simple majority. FYI, I've also attended well over a dozen churches across the spectrum on a regular basis over the years. I would agree that some of the fundamentalist Protestants might believe a statement as strongly worded as that. However, I suspect even in those communities that if you gave them a choice between "Catholics aren't Christian" and "Catholics have lots of wrong beliefs but are Christians if they believe Jesus is Lord" you'd get a lot of people picking the second statement. That said, it would be a mistake to assume that Protestants are "generally" fundamentalist, there are a *lot* of mainstream Protestant denominations across the world which get along just fine with Catholics.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:4, Funny)
Who/what is ML? (Martin Luther?)
No, not Martin Luther.
ML is the Muggle League. It's the non-magical Quidditch league. It's not really as popular as the real one since it's just a bunch of people running around with brooms between their legs throwing balls at each other. Kind of a really sad form of LARPing, in fact.
I'm not quite sure why the OP would bring it up though. Martin Luther actually would have made more sense in context ;-)
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
"Male seeking... anything."
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Informative)
In the words of George Carlin: "Selling is legal, fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?"
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
Anything*
*that can fit down the staircase and through the door to my parents basement.
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:4, Insightful)
Regulate and tax I say.
You know, I constantly hear this about all of the victimless crimes we have on the books today, and it really pisses me off. Why in the hell is the government entitled to tribute for refraining from interfering in something that's none of their business in the first place?
I want the drug war to end. I don't want the end of the drug war to mean that governments get billions in new tax revenues, in fact I want the taxpayers to get back the money we waste on the drug war now.
-jcr
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Why in the hell is the government entitled to tribute for refraining from interfering in something that's none of their business in the first place?
Does the government have a right to tax at all? Do they have a right to tax some things, but not this? Why would this be none of their business? Is anything their business to tax?
If you want things ( maybe one day recreational drugs and prostitution ) to stay safe and enjoyable , we need taxes for police, courts, FDAs, and public infrastructure like roads, electricity, and sewers, etc.
For all their self-righteousness, I never have heard of any libertarians moving to the middle of the Amazon or Somalia. Somalia has been free of the tyranny of government and taxes going on twenty years now.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
anyone who would argue for the legalization of cocaine is either ignorant or stupid.
Let me stop you right there, and point out your own ignorance and stupidity. Cocaine was an over-the-counter drug once, and we didn't have anyone getting shot over it. An addict needs treatment, not prosecution.
Try googling for "portugal drug decriminalization", read and learn.
-jcr
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hey guys! There's this site where you can, like, look at pictures of hookers all day, and set up stings, all from the comfort of your desk!" "Wow, we'd better shut that one down." Srsly? Why?
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
The truth is despite all their "concern" about craigslist, law enforcement isn't really interested in any major effort to investigate and prosecute prostitutes, they just want to hide it.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Informative)
Isn't there some sort of legal exclusion for user-generated content? I thought, while the user can be held liable, as long as Craigslist employees aren't doing the posting, they're not legally responsible for content posted by their users? Just like Slashdot wouldn't be liable if I post DeCSS or something along those lines.
Parent
Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
#include<stdlib.h>
typedef unsigned int uint;
char ctb[512]="33733b2663236b763e7e362b6e2e667bd393db0643034b96de9ed60b4e0e4\
69b57175f82c787cf125a1a528fca8ac21fd999d10049094190d898d001480840913d7d35246\
d2d65743c7c34256c2c6475dd9dd5044d0d4594dc9cd4054c0c449559195180c989c11058185\
081c888c011d797df0247074f92da9ad20f4a0a429f53135b86c383cb165e1e568bce8ec61bb\
3f3bba6e3a3ebf6befeb6abeeaee6fb37773f2267276f723a7a322f6a2a627fb9f9b1a0e9a9e\
1f0b8f8b0a1e8a8e0f15d1d5584cd8dc5145c1c5485cc8cc415bdfdb5a4edade5f4bcfcb4a5e\
cace4f539793120692961703878302168286071b7f7bfa2e7a7eff2bafab2afeaaae2ff";
typedef unsigned char uchar;uint tb0[11]={5,0,1,2,3,4,0,1,2,3,4};uchar* F=NULL;
uint lf0,lf1,out;void ReadKey(uchar* key){int i;char hst[3]; hst[2]=0;if(F==\
NULL){F=malloc(256);for(i=0;i<256;i++){hst[0]=ctb[2*i];hst[1]=ctb[2*i+1];F[i]=\
strtol(hst,NULL,16);}}out=0;lf0=(key[1]<<9)|key[0]|0x100;lf1=(key[4]<<16)|(key\
[3]<<8)|key[2];lf1=((lf1&0xfffff8)<<1)|(lf1&0x7)|0x8;}uchar Cipher(int sw1,\
int sw2){int i,a,b,x=0,y=0;for(i=0;i<8;i++){a=((lf0>>2)^(lf0>>16))&1;b=((lf1\
>>12)^(lf1>>20)^(lf1>>21)^(lf1>>24))&1;lf0=(lf0<<1)|a;lf1=(lf1<<1)|b;x=(x>>1)\
|(a<<7);y=(y>>1)|(b<<7);}x^=sw1;y^=sw2;return out=(out>>8)+x+y;} void \
CSSdescramble(uchar *sec,uchar *key){uint i;uchar *end=sec+0x800;uchar KEY[5];
for(i=0;i<5;i++)KEY[i]=key[i]^sec[0x54+i];ReadKey(KEY);sec+=0x80;while(sec!=\
end)*sec++=F[*sec]^Cipher(255,0);}void CSStitlekey1(uchar *key,uchar *im)
{uchar k[5];int i; ReadKey(im);for(i=0;i<5;i++)k[i]=Cipher(0,0);for(i=9;i>=0;\
i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[i+1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key[tb0[i]];}void CSStitlekey2\
(uchar *key,uchar *im){uchar k[5];int i;ReadKey(im);for(i=0;i<5;i++)k[i]=\
Cipher(0,255);for(i=9;i>=0;i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[i+1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key\
[tb0[i]];}void CSSdecrypttitlekey(uchar *tkey,uchar *dkey){int i;uchar im1[6];
uchar im2[6]={0x51,0x67,0x67,0xc5,0xe0,0x00};for(i=0;i<6;i++)im1[i]=dkey[i];
CSStitlekey1(im1,im2);CSStitlekey2(tkey,im1);}
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
They've been there all along, even with the availability of erotic services sections. Check ads in the personals sections for phrases like "roses required" or "seeking generous man".
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
If there's one thing the authorities should learn it's that you can't win the game of whack-a-mole.
And even if they do win it'll only get them enough tickets for two sparkle stickers or a bouncy ball.
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
you can't win the game of whack-a-mole.
Actually, I believe I read about that game in one of the "requests for erotic services"...
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Not like it's going to make a difference (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, there were already quite a few services like Craigslist for escorts before Craigslist got big.
In many areas, the erotic services section isn't used. I've browsed around it for giggles.
I've known a few people in the industry (no, not by soliciting their services). Craigslist is generally considered a newbie trashy way to advertise. Good escorts already have better methods.
And no, I won't post any links. :) Go find them yourselves you pervs.
By forcing Craigslist to shut down their ads, it's really sent all of those providers off to other means of advertising, which means law enforcement will have to go hunting again. It was a stupid logistics idea. Law enforcement will never stop prostitution, but it looks good to the public to have a decent number of busts. Why kill your easy method of facilitating busts. It's a freakin' list of "we can arrest these people tonight", rather than really hunting them down.
It'd be like if there was a "Drug Services" section, that crack dealers were listing in. They could brag that they've increased their drug related arrests by 1000%. People will still buy and sell illegal drugs, all they can hope to do is encourage a few people out of the business, and keep the public believing that they're doing all they can do.
I don't like the idea of going to jail, so I don't deal with any industries that would put me there. I do know people who do though, so I can learn second hand of what happens. If you sit down and listen to some of these people, you'd be amazed at how well thought out some parts are. Then again, other parts are handled stupidly, and those are the people you hear about getting arrested. Some busts are just dumb luck.
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Good (Score:4, Funny)
one word... splat! (Score:4, Insightful)
Hookers use cell phones too (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets force sprint to monitor all calls.
If you're too lazy to stop the crime, just stop the communication.
You would think that police departments would LOVE craigslist.
The criminals are actually posting their photos on the web.
Could they make your job any easier???
Justification (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think this is going to have any serious effect on Craigslist. They are just changing the name of the service and putting reviewers in place.
We should look at why these sorts of services run into trouble with the law. The reasons run from good to terrible.
Re:Justification (Score:5, Funny)
Like on eBay? "A++++ EXCELLENT HOOKER WOULD FUCK AGAIN"
(filterfilterfilterfuckingfilterlesscapsmycolonblahdeblah)
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Re:Justification (Score:4, Funny)
Like this: JENNY GAVE ME CRAB LICE! DON'T CALL 867-5309!
I bet there's a site like that right now.
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Re:Justification (Score:4, Insightful)
Rather than think of it as protecting people from themselves, think of it as protecting the weak from the powerful. Women are in some cases subjugated by men. And then there's the whole poverty, addiction, prostitution cycle.
All of that said, some of the reason we're running into this is because of problems that society isn't willing to handle. You can start with the horribly bungled handling of poverty in the U.S., which seems to have been designed to promote bad social values and create a perpetual client class.
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Doesn't this open them up to liability and suits? (Score:4, Insightful)
Pointless (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Oh man! (Score:5, Funny)
Where else can I seek out an erotic lesbian gorilla!?
http://www.state.gov/secretary/
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The best place to find a hooker online (Score:5, Funny)
I am Mrs Melissa Pointy the wife of Mr Harry Pointy, my husband worked with the Chevron/Texaco in Kenya for twenty years before he lost the use of his penis due to an industrial accident in the year 2001. We have been married for ten years without a child. He is the second son of the late John Pointer, who was a Nigerian Prince. His father left him the sum of $3.5 MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS but he cannot collect until he has a child.
If you would be so kind as to have sex with me until I conceive I will pay you a 10% gratuity for your troubles.
To obtain tickets to Nigeria please contact me so I can have my attorney send you instructions to buy airline tickets and pay for lodging.
As soon as I receive your reply I shall give you the contact of my attorney who is in Europe as he will be the one to assist you this endeavor.
Your's Truly,
MRS.Melissa Pointer.
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Re:What is the best place to find a hooker online? (Score:5, Informative)
The Erotic Review
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Re:Mounting Legal Pressure? (Score:5, Funny)
This is all about the First Amendment! Just last month I was arrested for offering to sell cocaine to an undercover cop - I never even sold him the drugs! And when I offered him pictures of naked underage boys and girls if he'd let me go - Things only got worse!
Blatant violation of my right to free speech. If this keeps up, I'll shoot the president.
[Special note to the Secret Service - This was an attempt at sarcasm/humor. Please don't kill me.]
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Re:Mounting Legal Pressure? (Score:5, Informative)
It's no so much about difference of opinion. The key word here is 'solicitation'. Examples of things that you can (I believe) be arrested for saying:
* "You wanna buy some weed?"
* "If you'll give me $20, I'll give you head."
* "If you can come up with a porno starring a 6 year old, I'll pay you $250."
* "If you'll shoot my wife, I'll give you $500."
And, even though I disagree with the laws barring the first couple of cases, solicitation of a crime is a crime. And, in the latter two examples, I think that it's for a good reason, as grave harm could come about just because of something that somebody said. You're free to express opinions - Even unpopular ones, but not to solicit criminal activity.
Perhaps I missed the point.
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Re:Mounting Legal Pressure? (Score:4, Insightful)
* "You wanna buy some weed?"
Got any dandelions?
* "If you'll give me $20, I'll give you head."
Already got the head. I just need to decide between a body or a frameset.
* "If you can come up with a porno starring a 6 year old, I'll pay you $250."
I'll see if Jennifer Lien [imdb.com] will reprise her role as Kes [imdb.com].
* "If you'll shoot my wife, I'll give you $500."
Will that be with a regular or a telephoto lens?
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Re:Government Lawsuits (Score:4, Interesting)
The police in various districts have done CL stings repeatedly. Seems like here in Portland it's in the news every 3 months or so...cops rent a hotel room and answer ads, girls are busted. Or vice versa. It apparently hasn't shut this down. Police have been busting streetwalkers for years and yet you still see them on the corners of major cities...
CL switched to requiring phone verification for this category of ads. Then they started charging $5 to list. And now they're dropping it altogether.
I would think this was all business-driven - an evaluation that the hassle costs more than the revenue - but CL has no revenue. In fact, I don't think CL has any actual business model....it's just free ads for whoever wants them. You're probably right that it's the lawsuit threats that are driving them out of this.
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