bernieS writes "The Washington Post describes what happens when a construction backhoe accidentally cuts buried fiber so secret that it doesn't appear on public maps — and what happens when the Men in Black SUVs appear out of nowhere. Apparently, the numerous secret fiber and utility lines used by government intelligence agencies are being dug up with increasing frequency with all the increased construction projects in the DC area. It's amazing how quickly they get repaired!"
There are reasons why it's important that public records are kept.
If they wanted to keep people from knowing where or what exactly it was, they could simply have marked it as something it wasn't.. and beyond that, they could encrypt what goes on that fiber.
They aren't without options; and ultimately they're currently fighting the system, and putting our tax dollars to work in ways that could be prevented.
It's understandable that they want to keep secrets secret, but isn't covering it up going to draw more attention than fudging the paperwork?
Oh, and I have to wonder a little: there's very little infrastructure terrorism, instead there's much more information terrorism at work. (i.e. the Pentagon hack that lost us the plans to the next air superiority fighter).
The government does a half-assed job securing its own computers, but they'll lock down what's between the computers... that's like having a convoy that's well protected, then having that same convoy deliver without any security detail.
The government does a half-assed job securing its own computers, but they'll lock down what's between the computers... that's like having a convoy that's well protected, then having that same convoy deliver without any security detail.
Not really, these computer systems are no where near the internet. They are secured by strict access restrictions (physical security) and the lack of interconnection to places without that.
In short, and to keep with your military convoy scenario, you can't really think of this convoy as a regular supply convoy behind the lines. Think of it as the one the president is in when touring the camps and the others are just running supplies to relatively safe camps. These systems serviced by the secrete fiber are something completely different then the main systems you keep hearing about with the breaches. Those systems use publicly accessible and most likely publicly documented lines.
The Rebel Alliance steals the plans to the Death Star. Darth Vader blows up a planet. People get scared that their planet is next. You don't need to be a Jedi to figure that one out.:P
You think? Military secrecy is far more important than you give credit.
Our cheap 30 dollar widget added to our existing stockpile of shoulder launched anti-aircraft missiles will ground your trillion dollar paper tiger in a heart beat. How so? We built this little gizmo to outwit the countermeasures built in to your trillion dollar paper tiger stacked up over there in the corner of our intelligence office. Not only that, but from those reference specs, we were also able to reverse engineer the bog standard state of the art used on most of your other aircraft too.
Until somebody goes to fix the natural gas line and can't figure out which one to work on. Or worse can't figure out which one to tap when rebuilding the home.
There are lots of natural gas pipelines under the ground besides the low-pressure ones that end users tap into to run domestic appliances. The higher-pressure transportation pipelines aren't something you touch unless you want to die a spectacular death, so they'd be guaranteed to be left alone by everyone save the gas company. And if you wanted to protect against that, you could create some sort of paper company that owned it and was responsible for maintenance: I've never met a utility company that would touch something once they got an inkling of a way in which it could be made somebody else's problem.
Part of the problem is they are moving lines. In this case half of the job was digging for construction and the other half was digging up and moving known utilities out of the way of the construction. So if you show them where your "gas lines" are at, they are likely to try to move some of them to get them out of their way. And then they are statistically a lot more likely to be discovered for what they are than if they just don't tell you and hope you don't try to move a line on top of one of theirs or dig a tunnel through it.
The reality is more likely laziness and ego, of believing they are above the law. They just couldn't be bothered doing the appropriate paper work and now as a result are spending tens of thousands of dollars repairing no longer secret cables, which have now been identified as bring emphatically secret by the cables being hidden and subject to high risk of being accidentally dug up. Of course as a contractor you could sue the government for any delays caused by the government delaying access while they repair the undeclared cable.
This is the first things I thought of - mark it as something else.
"Fibre cable x21-45. Carries: CCT footage of parking lots A-F in Sector 7."
Make two physically separate redundant feeds. The other one is marked with something like "Library Interconnect".
Then if either line gets cut at some point, have a couple of guys in a van show up, act like a regular repair crew, and fix the line quickly. Trust me, I've worked as a Civil Engineering Assistant, and they don't care what's in the line, just that there's a line. If you hit something that isn't on the map, they are going to find it and trace it no matter how long it takes. It'll be in a pipe. You can run a 60Hz powerline into the pipe and read the path from the surface. Maybe it's fibre this time -- maybe it's the water main or black water, or WCS -- both at the same time. The point is if you don't file your plans the town will send a poor fucking co-op student out there to mark the fucking thing on the map.
Then - bam - your secret line is on the maps in the Town Hall marked as "unknown line".
There are reasons why it's important that public records are kept.
And there are reasons secret records are kept... It's not a perfect either-or.
If they wanted to keep people from knowing where or what exactly it was, they could simply have marked it as something it wasn't.. and beyond that, they could encrypt what goes on that fiber.
Take map. Place ruler and draw the lines. Oh, it's something important connecting building A to building B, you can't hide that unless you run markers so wide it's meaningless and you know it's not their super secret sewage system. You can bet it's all well encrypted, but there's more to it than wiretapping, there are these little things called reconnaissance and chain of command. Imagine a real state of war, unlikely as it might seem right now. Cut the right wires, jam anything wireless and you got generals looking at blank screens with no information of what's going on and no way to command their troops. Now I'm no military expert but that sounds to me like a rather serious threat to national security. Don't you think so too?
Many cities in the USA have the same thing, a single number you can call, but it usually results in someone coming out to the land with a flag planter. They use different colors for various services - blue for water, yellow for gas, red for electric, and white for other things such as phone, cable tv, and fiber, so even if they came out and marked their secret line with the rest, you'd have no way of distinguishing it from say a buried telephone trunk without actually digging it up.
we have that in the USA too. you call in and someone comes out and plants flags, spray paints the gras where the lines are supposed to be.
I would imagine that Australia having many fewer backhoe incidents than the USA would have something to do with Australia have less than 10% as many people as the USA.
So who you supposed to notify when you dig? If the fiber is secret, nobody's going to tell you where it's at, and nobody's going to 'fess up about the ownership of said fiber.
And who do you make the check out to when you do cut it? Or would a 'Hey, how the hell can we know when we cut a top secret fiber? How we supposed to know it's there if it's top secret and we don't have clearance???' defense work in court when the other guy's lawyers come at you for damages?
So who you supposed to notify when you dig? You're not. That's the secret part of it.
If the fiber is secret, nobody's going to tell you where it's at, and nobody's going to 'fess up about the ownership of said fiber. Correct, that's why the serious men who pull up to the site and get busy fixing it don't tell you who they are.
And who do you make the check out to when you do cut it? The serious men will not ask for payment
Or would a 'Hey, how the hell can we know when we cut a top secret fiber? Rule #1 of accidentally cutting "black" fiber: Do not talk smack to the serious men.
How we supposed to know it's there if it's top secret and we don't have clearance??? See Rule #1.
defense work in court when the other guy's lawyers come at you for damages?There will be nothing to go to court about.
For the important stuff they also do a lot more to protect it.
For example, fiber backbones around here are quite the setup. They bury the cable itself at least 4 ft down. It's an armored cable that is designed to be completely undamaged by being run over by a caterpillar on asphalt and nearly impossible to break by stretching. (kevlar cord backbone, PVC spar with six fiber tubes, corrugated steel armor, antivarmint/self-sealing resin, and 1/8" very tough PVC jacket). One foot above that they bury a wide red streamer that's very elastic and hard to cut. If your backhoe gets to that first it's really hard to miss because you'll stretch it out of the ground like a rubber band. And all the dirt they use to fill in the trench is stained red. I don't know how effective the red stain ends up being, but it may be something that a backhoe operator would be much more likely to notice during his work than you or I.
In my experience, having operated a back hoe off and on for 10 years, both the "red streamer" and the fill (smallish gravel gets used around here) aren't necessary to tell when you've dug past another ditch. The soil in the ditch you cross is visibly and tactilely different from undisturbed ground. Also, FYI, we hit a fiber line about as big around as my arm (it was marked ~15 feet from where it really was) once and the people who fixed it showed up within the hour - it was not a national security line, just a commercial com line. I know this b/c the gas station that was right there couldn't process credit cards 'till it was fixed.
Having seen lines ran in pressurized pipes (pressure drop... alarms) and break location by reflection it doesn't shock me at all to see this; being spooks you would think they would use easements or dig deeper than usual to secure such things, but like most work I bet it was contracted out to the cheapest labor they could trust.
I will say though, not listing the location suggests much; if they are afraid that someone could tap into fiber without detection it most likely means they are already doing so, sometimes the thing you fear the most reveals much about your current state.
I hate to say it, but no, not really. My podunk base in podunk, minnesota applies the same security and cryptography. For example one of our systems that contains NO secret information, NO C&C abilities, and NO administrative rights requires an *18 character* password that must be changed monthly. One each: letter, upper case letter, number, special character, no words, nothing similar to your last 6 passwords etc. And this is behind our secure two-factor login system and on a secure network. And yet, when the base upgraded to fiber, it was done by 3 guys working out of a rented U-Haul truck. Watched it with my own eyes.
During the cold war, we regularly taped into Russia's fiber and copper lines. They did the same to us or so we expected then to have because we could do it to them. The Russians weren't exactly stupid.
We even have/had subs who's entire job was to find under sea cables coming off the coast of Russia and place bell taps on them. [wikipedia.org]
Fiber can be tapped in much the same way except you need to get around or near the actual fiber lines. This means a cut in the sheath surrounding the bundle. I can't find a reference but I do remember a positive pressurized device that would encapsulate a undersea cable allowing the sheathing to be removed and patched without the sea water penetrating. This same device could probably be used to defeat a pressurized line buried in the ground too. Just stick a regulator on the end of a stout hypodermic needle and penetrate the line, wait for the pressure to equalize and then work with relative impunity.
by Anonymous Coward
on Sunday May 31 2009, @08:18PM (#28162839)
My dad cut through a cell phone line about a month ago with his bulldozer (he lives on a farm) when we was clearing some soil for his rhubarb. About 30 minutes later a helicopter was circling overhead. Soon there after he met with a FBI agent who showed up on scene. The Verizon workers showed up after that and about 12 hours later the line was patched. This wasnt a fiber line, just a normal cell line, but they took it pretty seriously. We havent gotten a bill in the mail yet, but we are expecting one any day.
Was it on his property? How deep was it? If Verizon ran a shallow cable across his land they should be liable. One farmer here in Victoria, Australia sued Telstra (a big telco) because they ran twisted pair inside his boundary. His equipment dug it up and now that land is useless for farming because his produce is full if little bits of copper wire. It took a while but he won the case.
A buddy of mine cut a copper phone cable a few years back running some drain tile to the drainage ditch along the road. They didn't get the helocopters of FBI but a couple of verizon trucks kept running up and down the road. Finally one of them pulls in the drive and asked is anyone was doing any construction around there. They said no but then remembered putting the drain tile in and offered that.
They ended up using the backhoe to dig up access to the line, the guy used a signal wand to find it. The guy and someone else worked for about 6 hours patching 500 some copper lines back together. His total bill was around $6,000 but he ended up getting it cut in half because they were about a foot outside of the right of way. Unfortunately, they placed the drain tile into the right of way so it would have been cut either way so they split the difference. I guess the bill would have been a little more if Verizon would have had to send it's own backhoe out.
They told a story of a fiber line being cut on the other side of the road (fiber on one side and the older copper on the other) that cost the guy 1 million per day that it was down. I guess whoever cuts the line pays for the lost service too. Hope that give you an idea of how much the bill will be.
A back haul line that runs from the tower to a CLEC. You didn't think they operated on a mesh configuration, did you? They are essentially big access points.
T-1s used to be common, as are bonded T-1s for rural areas. DS-3s and OC-3 fiber beyond that.
MiB: Pardon me, you seem to have cut our wire.
Contractor: Who are you?
MiB: Oh us, uh, we're nobody.
Contractor: Well, whose wire is this and why hasn't it been documented?
MiB: What wire?
Contractor: This wire right here! Whose wire is this?
MiB: That? That's nobody's
Contractor: Ah HA! So it is yours!
MiB: What's whose now?
I worked with a civil engineer who was on the Washington Metro construction for a while. One day the unearthed a concrete ductbank that wasn't on any maps, etc. SOP was that, if it's not accounted for, cut it, so they did.
Within 5 minutes the Secret Service was down in the hole, had stopped work and kicked everybody out of the tunnel - apparently, the ductbank housed the "nuclear hotline" and losing contact with the other side could have been interpreted as a prelude to an attack.
With all this, wouldn't Washington have some sort of department that all construction plans have to be submitted to, and the lone guy with security clearance compares the construction zones with secret lines/locations? I would think this would save a lot of time and hassle and, considering how the government likes to create useless jobs, am surprised that it doesn't seem to exist (but not surprised if it does exist and they just don't do their job right).
There is a lot of cable in the ground even for civil use that isn't really on the plans. But the government and it's agencies really have a thing for not documenting anything for whatever reason.
I work in a building that was commissioned by the Atomic Energy Commission for the Manhattan Project. It should've been torn down a long time ago but it was more expensive to do that than to renovate it. Right now we're inheriting the 2nd floor of the building where they have been empty since the end of the Cold War (I recently found a stash of unopened era software) but nobody has any plans to the original layout (they went missing somewhere in the 50's) so the DoE did a (nuclear and structural) survey of the site and mapped it out. However the contractors started working and found a room with a lead door, 15" concrete walls, a chair and a small observation window. Needed to do a whole new nuclear survey and remap the whole thing by an internal team. The architect recreated his plans with the new data and found out that there is a bunch of space missing on the (currently empty) 3rd floor. We're not yet renovating there but for some or another reason the decision was made from higher up to leave the 3rd floor untouched until we really need that space.
Ignoring for the moment the fear of radioactive spiders, arbitrarily green physicists or other subcultural agents, I presume someone poked a radiation-measuring instrument in the general direction of the inside of that room?
Or maybe one should poke a radiation-measuring instrument around the outside of that room?
*tightens tinfoil hat*
::EYES ONLY::EYES ONLY::EYES ONLY:: ::PROJECT CUPCAKE:: ::START DATE JUNE 25 1964:: ::PROJECT BRIEF::
This project involves dusting the second floor of our disused research building with radionuclides of a quantity typical of the levels generated by large-scale atomic weaponry at close range. Subsequent to this dusting, the floor will then be populated with monkeys that are trained to perform menial, repetitive tasks for as long as possible. An observer will be positioned in the shielded room (originally used for research) on this floor and will be able to record the ability of the monkeys to perform their tasks, as well as the subsequent rapid death of the monkeys. Due to high levels of radioactivity and the long life of decay products, it is recommended that this building no longer be used after this project.
In addition to the previous research, the long term effect of radioactive compounds on humans to be studied at the facility until the background radiation drops to ambient levels. As such, this building is to be leased to the general public and local cancer and leukemia rates monitored until further notice. ::END BRIEF::
If I were trying to keep a cable secret, I'd make sure the real cable was clearly recorded on the maps as something totally innocuous and not connected to anything secret at all. If it got cut, it'd get repaired per normal procedure for the kind of cable it's marked as (and I'll have sufficient backups that I don't need to make the repair an attention-grabbing rush job). Then I'd lay a few completely unused but highly suspicious-looking decoy cables, making sure they occasionally got cut and that there was a suitably public trying-to-look-not-public scramble to repair them. That way anybody trying to find my cables was likely to glom onto the ones I was trying to keep hidden, and probably wouldn't even bother looking at "backup equipment monitoring line, sewage pumping station 37, Department of Public Works".
This fallacious story is featured all over the the local news today here in DC The problem is not that the lines aren't mapped--they ARE mapped just like any other utility. The real problem is that the maps aren't perfect.
Here's the real scoop: There have been nearly 40 cable cuts in Tysons since the Metro line to Dulles started construction. There is a government-owned antenna tower on the highest hill in Tysons, too. The ACTUAL problem is that Tysons Corner is the center of the Eastern USA internet capacity. Sure, MAE-East was here, but it's moved to Ashburn, and those lines still cross through Tysons Corner. Naturally, government lines are part of the rats nest that the Metro must tunnel through.
Bottom line is: all the lines are mapped but the maps aren't perfect. The agencies do not bury secret cables. To do so would not only be dangerous, it would be silly. They're just cables like any other.
In other news, that big hill on Rte. 123 had been restricted to heavy trucks after test cores indicated faulty soil but that restriction has been lifted.
Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are reasons why it's important that public records are kept.
If they wanted to keep people from knowing where or what exactly it was, they could simply have marked it as something it wasn't.. and beyond that, they could encrypt what goes on that fiber.
They aren't without options; and ultimately they're currently fighting the system, and putting our tax dollars to work in ways that could be prevented.
It's understandable that they want to keep secrets secret, but isn't covering it up going to draw more attention than fudging the paperwork?
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, and I have to wonder a little: there's very little infrastructure terrorism, instead there's much more information terrorism at work. (i.e. the Pentagon hack that lost us the plans to the next air superiority fighter).
The government does a half-assed job securing its own computers, but they'll lock down what's between the computers... that's like having a convoy that's well protected, then having that same convoy deliver without any security detail.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not really, these computer systems are no where near the internet. They are secured by strict access restrictions (physical security) and the lack of interconnection to places without that.
In short, and to keep with your military convoy scenario, you can't really think of this convoy as a regular supply convoy behind the lines. Think of it as the one the president is in when touring the camps and the others are just running supplies to relatively safe camps. These systems serviced by the secrete fiber are something completely different then the main systems you keep hearing about with the breaches. Those systems use publicly accessible and most likely publicly documented lines.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF does stealing plans have to do with scaring people?
The government can use plans being stolen [wikipedia.org] as an excuse to scare their people with the threat of scaring people [wikipedia.org]? :)
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
Wait... So whose the terrorist here again?
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
You think? Military secrecy is far more important than you give credit.
Our cheap 30 dollar widget added to our existing stockpile of shoulder launched anti-aircraft missiles will ground your trillion dollar paper tiger in a heart beat. How so? We built this little gizmo to outwit the countermeasures built in to your trillion dollar paper tiger stacked up over there in the corner of our intelligence office. Not only that, but from those reference specs, we were also able to reverse engineer the bog standard state of the art used on most of your other aircraft too.
See the picture?
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Really! Just mark it as a 4" natural gas line. Any backhoe operator worth his salt knows that cooked backhoe guy isn't a pretty sight.
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Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
Sewage line then, it's probably full of shit anyway.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are lots of natural gas pipelines under the ground besides the low-pressure ones that end users tap into to run domestic appliances. The higher-pressure transportation pipelines aren't something you touch unless you want to die a spectacular death, so they'd be guaranteed to be left alone by everyone save the gas company. And if you wanted to protect against that, you could create some sort of paper company that owned it and was responsible for maintenance: I've never met a utility company that would touch something once they got an inkling of a way in which it could be made somebody else's problem.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Hell, just put the fiber in a 4" gas line! Valves become a little problem, but you could have some cast with a bypass for the fiber to pass through.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Part of the problem is they are moving lines. In this case half of the job was digging for construction and the other half was digging up and moving known utilities out of the way of the construction. So if you show them where your "gas lines" are at, they are likely to try to move some of them to get them out of their way. And then they are statistically a lot more likely to be discovered for what they are than if they just don't tell you and hope you don't try to move a line on top of one of theirs or dig a tunnel through it.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
The reality is more likely laziness and ego, of believing they are above the law. They just couldn't be bothered doing the appropriate paper work and now as a result are spending tens of thousands of dollars repairing no longer secret cables, which have now been identified as bring emphatically secret by the cables being hidden and subject to high risk of being accidentally dug up. Of course as a contractor you could sue the government for any delays caused by the government delaying access while they repair the undeclared cable.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
ego, of believing they are above the law
Where have YOU been lately? They are above the law.
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
This is part of the sovereign immunity that all US governments enjoy.
How many US governments are there?
51 (Fifty States, plus the federal.)
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
This is the first things I thought of - mark it as something else.
"Fibre cable x21-45. Carries: CCT footage of parking lots A-F in Sector 7."
Make two physically separate redundant feeds. The other one is marked with something like "Library Interconnect".
Then if either line gets cut at some point, have a couple of guys in a van show up, act like a regular repair crew, and fix the line quickly. Trust me, I've worked as a Civil Engineering Assistant, and they don't care what's in the line, just that there's a line. If you hit something that isn't on the map, they are going to find it and trace it no matter how long it takes. It'll be in a pipe. You can run a 60Hz powerline into the pipe and read the path from the surface. Maybe it's fibre this time -- maybe it's the water main or black water, or WCS -- both at the same time. The point is if you don't file your plans the town will send a poor fucking co-op student out there to mark the fucking thing on the map.
Then - bam - your secret line is on the maps in the Town Hall marked as "unknown line".
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are reasons why it's important that public records are kept.
And there are reasons secret records are kept... It's not a perfect either-or.
If they wanted to keep people from knowing where or what exactly it was, they could simply have marked it as something it wasn't.. and beyond that, they could encrypt what goes on that fiber.
Take map. Place ruler and draw the lines. Oh, it's something important connecting building A to building B, you can't hide that unless you run markers so wide it's meaningless and you know it's not their super secret sewage system. You can bet it's all well encrypted, but there's more to it than wiretapping, there are these little things called reconnaissance and chain of command. Imagine a real state of war, unlikely as it might seem right now. Cut the right wires, jam anything wireless and you got generals looking at blank screens with no information of what's going on and no way to command their troops. Now I'm no military expert but that sounds to me like a rather serious threat to national security. Don't you think so too?
Parent
Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
Many cities in the USA have the same thing, a single number you can call, but it usually results in someone coming out to the land with a flag planter. They use different colors for various services - blue for water, yellow for gas, red for electric, and white for other things such as phone, cable tv, and fiber, so even if they came out and marked their secret line with the rest, you'd have no way of distinguishing it from say a buried telephone trunk without actually digging it up.
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Re:Our tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Ok... (Score:5, Insightful)
And who do you make the check out to when you do cut it? Or would a 'Hey, how the hell can we know when we cut a top secret fiber? How we supposed to know it's there if it's top secret and we don't have clearance???' defense work in court when the other guy's lawyers come at you for damages?
Re:Ok... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, all you have to do is read the cable. It says "Top Secret Cable. Do Not Cut" right on it.
Parent
Re:Ok... (Score:5, Funny)
If the fiber is secret, nobody's going to tell you where it's at, and nobody's going to 'fess up about the ownership of said fiber. Correct, that's why the serious men who pull up to the site and get busy fixing it don't tell you who they are.
And who do you make the check out to when you do cut it? The serious men will not ask for payment
Or would a 'Hey, how the hell can we know when we cut a top secret fiber? Rule #1 of accidentally cutting "black" fiber: Do not talk smack to the serious men.
How we supposed to know it's there if it's top secret and we don't have clearance??? See Rule #1.
defense work in court when the other guy's lawyers come at you for damages?There will be nothing to go to court about.
Parent
Re:Ok... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm going to guess that they don't come at you for damages, as that would only make their little "secret" more public.
If you bothered to read the article, you would see they tried to bill one contractor for $300,000.
and on an unrelated side note, ianal.
Well, I AM anal. I read the article before posting.
Parent
Re:Ok... (Score:5, Interesting)
For the important stuff they also do a lot more to protect it.
For example, fiber backbones around here are quite the setup. They bury the cable itself at least 4 ft down. It's an armored cable that is designed to be completely undamaged by being run over by a caterpillar on asphalt and nearly impossible to break by stretching. (kevlar cord backbone, PVC spar with six fiber tubes, corrugated steel armor, antivarmint/self-sealing resin, and 1/8" very tough PVC jacket). One foot above that they bury a wide red streamer that's very elastic and hard to cut. If your backhoe gets to that first it's really hard to miss because you'll stretch it out of the ground like a rubber band. And all the dirt they use to fill in the trench is stained red. I don't know how effective the red stain ends up being, but it may be something that a backhoe operator would be much more likely to notice during his work than you or I.
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Re:Ok... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Under pressure... (Score:5, Insightful)
Having seen lines ran in pressurized pipes (pressure drop... alarms) and break location by reflection it doesn't shock me at all to see this; being spooks you would think they would use easements or dig deeper than usual
to secure such things, but like most work I bet it was contracted out to the cheapest labor they could trust.
I will say though, not listing the location suggests much; if they are afraid that someone could tap into fiber without detection it most likely means they are already doing so, sometimes the thing you fear the most reveals much about your current state.
Re:Under pressure... (Score:5, Informative)
I hate to say it, but no, not really. My podunk base in podunk, minnesota applies the same security and cryptography. For example one of our systems that contains NO secret information, NO C&C abilities, and NO administrative rights requires an *18 character* password that must be changed monthly. One each: letter, upper case letter, number, special character, no words, nothing similar to your last 6 passwords etc. And this is behind our secure two-factor login system and on a secure network. And yet, when the base upgraded to fiber, it was done by 3 guys working out of a rented U-Haul truck. Watched it with my own eyes.
This is just the gov't doing what it does best.
-b
Parent
Re:Under pressure... (Score:5, Interesting)
During the cold war, we regularly taped into Russia's fiber and copper lines. They did the same to us or so we expected then to have because we could do it to them. The Russians weren't exactly stupid.
We even have/had subs who's entire job was to find under sea cables coming off the coast of Russia and place bell taps on them. [wikipedia.org]
Fiber can be tapped in much the same way except you need to get around or near the actual fiber lines. This means a cut in the sheath surrounding the bundle. I can't find a reference but I do remember a positive pressurized device that would encapsulate a undersea cable allowing the sheathing to be removed and patched without the sea water penetrating. This same device could probably be used to defeat a pressurized line buried in the ground too. Just stick a regulator on the end of a stout hypodermic needle and penetrate the line, wait for the pressure to equalize and then work with relative impunity.
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My Dad (Score:5, Interesting)
My dad cut through a cell phone line about a month ago with his bulldozer (he lives on a farm) when we was clearing some soil for his rhubarb. About 30 minutes later a helicopter was circling overhead. Soon there after he met with a FBI agent who showed up on scene. The Verizon workers showed up after that and about 12 hours later the line was patched. This wasnt a fiber line, just a normal cell line, but they took it pretty seriously. We havent gotten a bill in the mail yet, but we are expecting one any day.
Re:My Dad (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:My Dad (Score:5, Interesting)
A buddy of mine cut a copper phone cable a few years back running some drain tile to the drainage ditch along the road. They didn't get the helocopters of FBI but a couple of verizon trucks kept running up and down the road. Finally one of them pulls in the drive and asked is anyone was doing any construction around there. They said no but then remembered putting the drain tile in and offered that.
They ended up using the backhoe to dig up access to the line, the guy used a signal wand to find it. The guy and someone else worked for about 6 hours patching 500 some copper lines back together. His total bill was around $6,000 but he ended up getting it cut in half because they were about a foot outside of the right of way. Unfortunately, they placed the drain tile into the right of way so it would have been cut either way so they split the difference. I guess the bill would have been a little more if Verizon would have had to send it's own backhoe out.
They told a story of a fiber line being cut on the other side of the road (fiber on one side and the older copper on the other) that cost the guy 1 million per day that it was down. I guess whoever cuts the line pays for the lost service too. Hope that give you an idea of how much the bill will be.
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Re:My Dad (Score:5, Informative)
A back haul line that runs from the tower to a CLEC. You didn't think they operated on a mesh configuration, did you? They are essentially big access points.
T-1s used to be common, as are bonded T-1s for rural areas. DS-3s and OC-3 fiber beyond that.
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I can imagine the conversation (Score:5, Funny)
Not a new problem (Score:5, Interesting)
I worked with a civil engineer who was on the Washington Metro construction for a while. One day the unearthed a concrete ductbank that wasn't on any maps, etc. SOP was that, if it's not accounted for, cut it, so they did.
Within 5 minutes the Secret Service was down in the hole, had stopped work and kicked everybody out of the tunnel - apparently, the ductbank housed the "nuclear hotline" and losing contact with the other side could have been interpreted as a prelude to an attack.
Puckered assholes all around, that day.
Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Insightful)
If that is really what the line was for, then nobody would have told you that's what it was for.
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Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Insightful)
With all this, wouldn't Washington have some sort of department that all construction plans have to be submitted to, and the lone guy with security clearance compares the construction zones with secret lines/locations? I would think this would save a lot of time and hassle and, considering how the government likes to create useless jobs, am surprised that it doesn't seem to exist (but not surprised if it does exist and they just don't do their job right).
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Doesn't surprise me (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a lot of cable in the ground even for civil use that isn't really on the plans. But the government and it's agencies really have a thing for not documenting anything for whatever reason.
I work in a building that was commissioned by the Atomic Energy Commission for the Manhattan Project. It should've been torn down a long time ago but it was more expensive to do that than to renovate it. Right now we're inheriting the 2nd floor of the building where they have been empty since the end of the Cold War (I recently found a stash of unopened era software) but nobody has any plans to the original layout (they went missing somewhere in the 50's) so the DoE did a (nuclear and structural) survey of the site and mapped it out. However the contractors started working and found a room with a lead door, 15" concrete walls, a chair and a small observation window. Needed to do a whole new nuclear survey and remap the whole thing by an internal team. The architect recreated his plans with the new data and found out that there is a bunch of space missing on the (currently empty) 3rd floor. We're not yet renovating there but for some or another reason the decision was made from higher up to leave the 3rd floor untouched until we really need that space.
Re:Doesn't surprise me (Score:5, Funny)
Ignoring for the moment the fear of radioactive spiders, arbitrarily green physicists or other subcultural agents, I presume someone poked a radiation-measuring instrument in the general direction of the inside of that room?
Or maybe one should poke a radiation-measuring instrument around the outside of that room?
*tightens tinfoil hat*
This project involves dusting the second floor of our disused research building with radionuclides of a quantity typical of the levels generated by large-scale atomic weaponry at close range. Subsequent to this dusting, the floor will then be populated with monkeys that are trained to perform menial, repetitive tasks for as long as possible. An observer will be positioned in the shielded room (originally used for research) on this floor and will be able to record the ability of the monkeys to perform their tasks, as well as the subsequent rapid death of the monkeys. Due to high levels of radioactivity and the long life of decay products, it is recommended that this building no longer be used after this project.
In addition to the previous research, the long term effect of radioactive compounds on humans to be studied at the facility until the background radiation drops to ambient levels. As such, this building is to be leased to the general public and local cancer and leukemia rates monitored until further notice.
::END BRIEF::
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Are we sure they're secret cables? (Score:5, Insightful)
If I were trying to keep a cable secret, I'd make sure the real cable was clearly recorded on the maps as something totally innocuous and not connected to anything secret at all. If it got cut, it'd get repaired per normal procedure for the kind of cable it's marked as (and I'll have sufficient backups that I don't need to make the repair an attention-grabbing rush job). Then I'd lay a few completely unused but highly suspicious-looking decoy cables, making sure they occasionally got cut and that there was a suitably public trying-to-look-not-public scramble to repair them. That way anybody trying to find my cables was likely to glom onto the ones I was trying to keep hidden, and probably wouldn't even bother looking at "backup equipment monitoring line, sewage pumping station 37, Department of Public Works".
Completely fallacious and sensationalized nonsense (Score:5, Interesting)
This fallacious story is featured all over the the local news today here in DC
The problem is not that the lines aren't mapped--they ARE mapped just like any other utility.
The real problem is that the maps aren't perfect.
Here's the real scoop:
There have been nearly 40 cable cuts in Tysons since the Metro line to Dulles started construction.
There is a government-owned antenna tower on the highest hill in Tysons, too.
The ACTUAL problem is that Tysons Corner is the center of the Eastern USA internet capacity. Sure, MAE-East was here, but it's moved to Ashburn, and those lines still cross through Tysons Corner.
Naturally, government lines are part of the rats nest that the Metro must tunnel through.
Bottom line is: all the lines are mapped but the maps aren't perfect.
The agencies do not bury secret cables. To do so would not only be dangerous, it would be silly.
They're just cables like any other.
In other news, that big hill on Rte. 123 had been restricted to heavy trucks after test cores indicated faulty soil but that restriction has been lifted.
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Funny)
That's what they want you to believe, the original posters have all been deleted.
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Re:Wow... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Two Ends of the Cable (Score:5, Insightful)
At&t
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Re:Two Ends of the Cable (Score:5, Insightful)
Up the tax payers ass, naturally.
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Re:Two Ends of the Cable (Score:5, Funny)
But what IEEE spec covers that? It's IEEE1984, isn't it?
fixed that for you.
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Re:Dark black fiber? (Score:5, Funny)
So black dark fiber belongs to The Gooblement?
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