G.M. Opens Its Own Battery Research Laboratory 173
Al writes "Bankrupt automaker G.M. has taken a significant step towards reinventing itself by opening a battery laboratory in Michigan on a site that once churned out internal combustion engines. The new facility lets G.M. engineers simulate all kinds of conditions to determine how long batteries will last once they're inside its vehicles. Battery packs are charged and discharged while being subjected to high and low temperatures as well as extremes of humidity. Engineers can also simulate different altitudes by placing the packs in barometric chambers. The facility has also been designed so that engineers located in New York and Germany and at the University of Michigan can perform experiments remotely. Despite its financial troubles, G.M. has committed to producing the Volt and is already working on second- and third-generation battery technology at the new lab."
Stupid (Score:0, Interesting)
Another waste of resources for the inept fools at GM.
Electric cars are not viable. If we start to charge vehicles off the national grid, electricity will almost certainly loose its tax exempt status.
Prices would definitely rise to the point where electricity would become more expensive than hydrocarbon alternatives are projected to be in the future.
Also, generating capacity is already under pressure, batteries can not hold sufficient charge to travel useful distances (and there is little hope of significantly improving power density of current battery technologies).
Additionally, many new types of battery use scarce, expensive, and polluting to produce heavy metals, have massive total lifecycle production and disposal costs, and add massively to vehicle weight - particularly when combined with an auxiliary engine (eg. in a hybrid). They also pose thermal management problems, vehicle weight distribution problems, packaging problems, add substantial weight, and suffer from shorter than vehicle lifespan (ie. will need replaced within course of the life of the vehicle).
Anyone with no vested interests in electric cars can mock this foolish folly.
Ever wonder why GM is bankrupt? The inability to comprehend technical facts. American cars have always been terrible. Even Eastern Bloc countries produced better quality vehicles, albeit with considerably less character, and interior refinement.
Ultracapacitors (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Financing? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Oh really? (Score:2, Interesting)
We don't call GM Government Motors for nothing! I expect to see large Government matching funds on down payments for Volts to counter the 50% increase we are going to see on the Cap and Trade scam. Guess the Cap and Trade is the secret weapon for the Volt, the national power grid couldn't handle that type of additional load of Volts being plugged in unless the demand for power dropped by equal amount because people can't their power bills.
Not really that important... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not seeing how this story or any other story about GM and their "Volt" is noteworthy. The Volt is not a marvel of engineering. It's not innovative. It's the same crappy "hybrid" concept that every other auto maker has tried to push. The Volt only goes 40 miles on a charge before rolling over to the gas engine. And at the nearly $40,000 price point, why bother buying it? If you spent a bit more money, you can buy a Tesla Model S [teslamotors.com], priced at about $50,000 (assuming you can get the rebate). The Model S doesn't even have a gasoline engine, goes over 7 times farther than the Volt on a single charge, can go from 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds, and looks a hell of a lot better than the Volt IMO.
If GM uses this new laboratory to produce cars with no gasoline engine (all electric), I'm on board. But if they use it to push this ridiculous Volt and other similar hybrids onto the market, it'll be just another waste of our taxpayer dollars.
Re:Ultracapacitors (Score:5, Interesting)
Umm...what batteries are you referring to that are dirty, nasty, and hard-to-recycle? Lead-acid batteries, sure, I'll grant that. But that's not what is being proposed for electric cars.
This http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/tesla-electric-car-batteries-non-toxic-recycled.php [treehugger.com] is closer to it.
With regards to life, I recall hearing that the newest generation of lithium batteries last far more cycles than your laptop's battery, though I cannot provide a link at the moment.
As for ultracapacitors, yes they're neat and could work. But the battery tech we have now is much closer to reality than our current ultracapacitor tech. Should ultracapacitors work out, we'll be grateful we started building the infrastructure to support our battery-powered cars.
Re:Not really that important... (Score:1, Interesting)
If GM uses this new laboratory to produce cars with no gasoline engine (all electric), I'm on board.
Not me. How was it that the Tesla people were able to do this already without billions from the taxpayers and their grandchildren?
Re:Back to step 1. (Score:0, Interesting)
Well cars lost them money. Their campaign contributions, on the other hand, talk about return on investment !
If I give Obama a dollar, do I get 6000 back from the government too ?
Re:Back to step 1. (Score:2, Interesting)
THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS.
Re:Back to step 1. (Score:3, Interesting)
They looked at the EV-1 as a solution to a legislative (not economic) problem. Once they got California to back down on the zero emission requirement and bought federal laws that said noone could be more restrictive than California they figured there was little need to keep the program around. Since 51+% of passenger vehicles sold were light trucks and SUV's I would say their reasoning was fairly sound.
Actually, that's not quite true.
The mandate came about because of the EV1. GM showed California that an electric car was feasible, and California decided to start mandating manufacturers to produce them. This caused GM to panic and do everything in their power to shut down the EV1 program.
Interesting, BTW, that GM is planning their own battery research facility. One of the reasons the EV1 was so expensive was that GM's partially-owned subsidiary parts manufacturers (Delco and Delphi) insisted that they be allowed to develop and manufacture the parts of the car (controller, motor, batteries) that GM had already sourced elsewhere for much lower cost. Rather than using better quality and cheaper batteries from elsewhere, the original EV1s came off the assembly line using essentially custom-built one-offs from GM's suppliers.
Re:Oh really? (Score:3, Interesting)
Guess the Cap and Trade is the secret weapon for the Volt, the national power grid couldn't handle that type of additional load of Volts being plugged in unless the demand for power dropped by equal amount because people can't their power bills.
Read?
Pay?
Eat?
Fondle?
The power grid has baseline generation, and then supplemental generation. Increasing off-peak usage might cause some supplemental generators to remain on all night, sure. But with a more balanced day/night load, it would make more sense to bring online more baseline generation, which in general is more energy efficient and cleaner, too.
And if the grid can handle mid-day August, it can handle charging Volts at night. I'd have no problem requiring houses with car power stations to be Smart Grid capable, so their use can be cycled off in the rare case that too many people try to recharge their cars in the afternoon.
Re:Fixed that for you... (Score:3, Interesting)
There's some interest in small cars with small engines in the US, but you've got to admit that it isn't that substantial. Small cars sell in Europe and Japan, but larger cars sell in the US. A large part of this is due to perceptions of safety; your family will be perfectly safe if they're encased by a 4-ton steel cage.
The Top 10 Best-Selling Cars of 2008 [cars.com]
* Ford F-Series: 515,513
* Chevy Silverado: 465,065
* Toyota Camry: 436,617
* Honda Accord: 372,789
* Toyota Corolla: 351,007
* Honda Civic: 339,289
* Nissan Altima: 269,668
* Chevy Impala: 265,840
* Dodge Ram: 245,840
* Honda CR-V: 197,279
Three large trucks, and a crossover SUV make the list. Notice also that the Accord outsells the Civic, and the Camry outsells the Corolla. Large cars sell.
Personally, I believe that maneuverability is more important to safety than structural integrity, so my personal choice for less than $50k would be a Lotus Elise, but I don't have kids, and I realize I'm not in the majority.
Now actually take it in a positive direction... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now actually take it in a positive direction for once.
Many companies have these testing facilities for green sources of energy. How about you do something novel for once.
Make the battery discharging a lot more real world and practicle. Have them discharge to the power grid.
Have it help the plant at least by powering some lights or machines when you discharge the energy instead of creating waste heat in simple electrically resistive or mechanical resistance dummy loads.
Rant/ /Rant
Show us that you can actually think on your own in front of the others and you'll get some respect. Or keep following the pack in the back and get left behind for dead. It's the little decisions that got you here, the ones that unnervingly followed the most greedy and predictable paths that lead to the american people finally being forced to give your company money. Not for a product that was better or a service that they chose over others. You got the money because we hate seeing our symbols fail. The ones that are supposed to prove that America can produce the best because of our market and our freedoms. So instead of seeing it fail, we nail the coffin closed ourselves by proving that if a business can't earn the market share, the government will buy 60% and keep it alive rather than admit that it has failed.
Re:Oh really? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd like to make a safe bet that this research lab is going to be used exclusively to butter up Congress with tours for more bailout money.
I suspect that, myself. GM already had at least one battery research facility; Charlie Rose was taken on a tour of it, LAST YEAR.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/9226 [charlierose.com] (Part 1, or maybe it was in Part 2)
They Already HAD a Battery Tech that worked (Score:4, Interesting)
And they sold it to Exxon Mobil, who buried it and laughed all the way back to their oilfields.