An anonymous reader writes "Kudos to NASA and the Japanese trade ministry for mapping 99% of the Earth's surface, surpassing their previous effort, with which the new data will be amalgamated. Apparently, the data will be free to download and use."
It's the area around the topographical mapping equipment building. if they point the equipment at itself, it creates a paradox and the universe implodes.
The new ASTER data expands coverage to 99 percent, from 83 degrees north latitude and 83 degrees south. Each elevation measurement point in the new data is 98 feet apart.
If you simply look at the image, it seems like a few random streaks in the image file. I'd guess systems issues / data corruption, or other collection faults before I'd guess super-secret military bases.
Ideally they would combine this with previous data (relatively adjusted to this baseline) to fill in the gaps.
My guess, most unmapped terrain is not secret. WHy? Because 1% of the surface of the earth is absolutely huge. THe surface area of earth is 510.072.000 km. 1% would be 5.100.720 km, which is 2258x2258 km. Such a large area can't be secret in its entirety.
The other 1% is what geographers call the "edge"; the area at which the two sides of the flat earth meet. Mapping both sides of a flat object is easy. Unfortunately mapping the edge is much harder. Just be glad the Earth is flat, not round. Otherwise, there'd be no accurate way to project it onto a piece of paper.
It's the area around the LHC. When they turned it on, it really did create small black holes, which of course don't let any light or other EMR escape. So the satellites can't see in past their event horizon. Or something like that.
Or maybe they just got lazy, blew off work, went home, and cracked open a few beers. "Come on, Seiji, no one will notice that we didn't map the last 1%; it's just a measly 5mm km2. Let's hit the bar!"
Apparently, the data will be free to download and use.
You know, it never ceases to amaze me that CNN, BBC, Fox News, everybody who's a major player can't link to the original source of information [nasa.gov] (and Japan's site [ersdac.or.jp]). One might find the warehouse inventory search tool [nasa.gov] (note registration required for ASTER global digital elevation model) interesting to play around with if they are interested in the story.
...will they update it? With all the movements throughout the globe from earthquakes, volcanoes, tectonic movement, etc, you'd think this data would be invalidated in 5-10 years.
Actually, the data is stored on write-once media, so they've decided to just go out every Dec 31 and push the continental shelves back to their Jan 1 position.
That's not really an issue with this type of data. Remember, the resolution is 30m. There is nothing geologic (that would show up in this type of data) that moves anywhere close to that on human time scales.
There IS data on movement such as those you list, showing real time (in geologic time anyway) movement of the crust due to tectonics, or other things. It's actually a pretty major field in geology, studying minute changes. InSAR and millimeter-accurate differential GPS are two techniques.
Relatively coarse DEM data like ASTER or SRTM is used for different applications where millimeter accuracy isn't necessary - i.e., most things:)
Additionally, there is enough inaccuracy in the instrumentation used for DEM data like this that doing multiple passes will give you significantly different results - the error is measured in meters. Therefore, any small changes - and earthquakes, volcanoes, and tectonic movements are small changes in the big scheme of things - are completely irrelevant as they'll be averaged out anyway. It should be interesting to make a comparison to previous datasets, though, and I'm sure there are people working on that already.
Of course, I suppose you'd notice in this data if a huge volcanic explosion occurred, like when half of Mt. St. Helens blew off. However, that's exceedingly rare:)
Seems the project name for this data is ASTER. Of course, what everyone (like me at least) wants to know is how can we import this stuff into Google Earth or NASA World Wind so we can picture the slopes on that mountain bike trail?
As far as I can tell (from very briefly scanning the Exercises ASTER [wimsoft.com] document earlier), you can do this by downloading some tool that comes from the project itself, and then using it to generate a KML file.
Not too hard, but does anyone know more, or have a simpler way? I'm sure
you can do this by downloading some tool that comes from the project itself, and then using it to generate a KML file.
Not too hard, but does anyone know more, or have a simpler way?
You know, posting this sort of comment on a geek site, where you're really expected to not only be able to download files and load them into existing programs, but you're also expected to (in extreme cases at least) be able to hack into the ftp site using a whistle made from old Pringles containers and then write the downloader and application file in 6502 assembly, while creating run on sentences in Slashdot, is likely to get somebody to tell you to go back to Digg.
you can do this by downloading some tool that comes from the project itself, and then using it to generate a KML file.
Not too hard, but does anyone know more, or have a simpler way?
You know, posting this sort of comment on a geek site, where you're really expected to not only be able to download files and load them into existing programs, but you're also expected to (in extreme cases at least) be able to hack into the ftp site using a whistle made from old Pringles containers and then write the downloader and application file in 6502 assembly, while creating run on sentences in Slashdot, is likely to get somebody to tell you to go back to Digg.
So, are you finished with it yet, or should I go back to reading Digg?
What!!!!! YOU had a pringles can to use as a whistle>????? You kids have it EASY now! In MY day, we had nothing but teeth and pursed lips....and now, alas, nothing but pursed lips..
Did anybody else notice that the report of a newsworthy task by U.S. and Japanese agencies was reported by the BBC? Not ABC, NBC, CNN, or any other U.S. based news agency and certainly not by a Japan based agency. It's coverage like this that keeps me going back to the BBC.
This will (well, could) be great for geek hikers like myself; I find the topographical maps available okay, but don't really give one an accurate feel for the lay of the land. Incorporating this map into GPS (or, in the shorter term, some open source mapping software on a PDA-sized device) will be very cool...
Sigh, one of these days I hope to look at the beautiful surroundings nature provides, more than I look at my gadgets I bring with me:) Oh well, navigating/mapping is half the fun of exploring, to me (whether in a car, boat, or on foot).
How do these folks break even if the data will be free to download and use? A small nominal charge for use or download would not hurt for sure...or would it?
How do these folks break even if the data will be free to download and use?
They break even by people finding profitable uses for it, which then produce tax revenue. Remember, the agencies doing this are US and Japanese government agencies.
I am actually using this data for my thesis project in geology. Actually, I'm really excited to learn about this, as the previously available 90m resolution SRTM data isn't really sufficient for my needs.
The SRTM data is all free to download, if you can figure out their poor interface for selecting the files you need. If it wasn't, there would be a lot fewer people working with it. It is the most important data for the analyses I'm doing, and without it my thesis would be a lot different (you can do similar things with regular topographic maps, but essentially only by making hand measurements). I'm really glad that I haven't done a ton of analyses using the SRTM data - now I will wait until I can get my hands on the new stuff.
For a grad student like me with little to no funding for my research and a tiny paycheck from working as a TA, even a nominal fee to download is prohibitive. Even for someone that DOES have funding, paying for stuff like this is extremely annoying. Despite what journal publishers want you to think, science is about openness and sharing of information. Most scientists freely share their data and work with others - even those that work with proprietary data in industry, if you ask them nicely.
And as others have noted - we already paid for it. It's produced by the government.
Now, here's the best part - there is actually 30m data from the SRTM mission. However, except for North America, only the 90m data is available, because it's restricted - not by NASA, but by the DOD. So with this new data they've apparently side-stepped the DOD. NASA and the USGS do seem like they want to get their data out their and accessible by scientists, despite what the DOD may want. I am working on Thailand, so the 30m SRTM data was restricted, but now I should be able to get this new data at the same resolution.
NASA's been doing this longer. To prove their point - how did google get those satellites up into space? But even if Google won todays lawsuit...NASA just says "O'RLY?" and powers off the satellite signal "oops...sorry about that guys, don't worry it's on our list of things to do....right after our colonization of mars project is over"
you do realize that those are commercial satellites launched using commercial launch vehicles operated by commercial companies. Yes, the US government does have some say in the matter since they're often (but not always) launched from government owned launch facilities and the data is sensitive in nature; but, these are commercial entities, not owned by NASA or DOD.
I'm okay with that. The raw data is free, but generally useless to the average person without some interpretation. The only thing stopping someone from making a free alternative to those commercial services is lack of cartography skills.
The previous SRTM data is available completely free to the end-user. I downloaded several gigabytes of it for use in my thesis.
There are commercial vendors who will provide you somewhat better versions of it - with the holes filled, and the individual tiles stitched together. But for someone actually working with the data, that's not really worth much because you can do it yourself in a few minutes.
I'm trying to get the new data right now - I'm still working on my thesis and this will be really great stuff
The other %1? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Funny)
Fixed that for you...
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Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Funny)
It's the hole at the North Pole that leads to the center of the Earth.
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I believe it's Mt. Sneffels in Iceland. At least that's what Arne Saknussem led me to believe
Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Funny)
It's the area around the topographical mapping equipment building. if they point the equipment at itself, it creates a paradox and the universe implodes.
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Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Funny)
You rang?
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Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:The other %1? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you simply look at the image, it seems like a few random streaks in the image file. I'd guess systems issues / data corruption, or other collection faults before I'd guess super-secret military bases.
Ideally they would combine this with previous data (relatively adjusted to this baseline) to fill in the gaps.
MadCow.
Parent
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Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Interesting)
"or is it part of a top secret organization?"
My guess, most unmapped terrain is not secret. WHy? Because 1% of the surface of the earth is absolutely huge. THe surface area of earth is 510.072.000 km. 1% would be 5.100.720 km, which is 2258x2258 km. Such a large area can't be secret in its entirety.
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10 sq km here, 10 sq km there, pretty soon you're talking about real surface area.
Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Funny)
1% would be 5.100.720 km, which is 2258x2258 km
It could be 40075.02km long and 127.28km wide.
In fact I'm guessing its the part of the earth covered by the big red stripe that marks the equator.
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Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Informative)
In most of Europe, periods are used as thousands-separators in the same way we Americans use commas.
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Re:The other %1? (Score:4, Funny)
Some parts of the world use decimals where us Americans use commas. and vice versa,
FIFY
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Yes, but how many football stadiums is that?
Re:The other %1? (Score:5, Funny)
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I actually started an earth edge-mapping project with grant money, but I cut myself
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It's the area around the LHC. When they turned it on, it really did create small black holes, which of course don't let any light or other EMR escape. So the satellites can't see in past their event horizon. Or something like that.
Or maybe they just got lazy, blew off work, went home, and cracked open a few beers. "Come on, Seiji, no one will notice that we didn't map the last 1%; it's just a measly 5mm km2. Let's hit the bar!"
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Anyone know last 1% isn't mapped? Is it just hard to access or is it part of a top secret organization?
It's Barbra Streisand's house.
Re:The other %1? (Score:4, Funny)
Fixed that for you
Parent
As noted... (Score:5, Funny)
If it is what I think it is then... FAIL (Score:5, Funny)
This error message sums it up pretty well:
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e4d'
/index.asp, line 3
[Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too many client tasks.
Acess?! Really?!
Original Sources (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently, the data will be free to download and use.
You know, it never ceases to amaze me that CNN, BBC, Fox News, everybody who's a major player can't link to the original source of information [nasa.gov] (and Japan's site [ersdac.or.jp]). One might find the warehouse inventory search tool [nasa.gov] (note registration required for ASTER global digital elevation model) interesting to play around with if they are interested in the story.
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Over on the right hand side, under 'related internet links'.
How often... (Score:2)
IANAG though.
Re:How often... (Score:4, Funny)
Actually, the data is stored on write-once media, so they've decided to just go out every Dec 31 and push the continental shelves back to their Jan 1 position.
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... from a nice observation window at The Restaurant at the End of California.
Not a problem on human time scales (Score:5, Informative)
That's not really an issue with this type of data. Remember, the resolution is 30m. There is nothing geologic (that would show up in this type of data) that moves anywhere close to that on human time scales.
There IS data on movement such as those you list, showing real time (in geologic time anyway) movement of the crust due to tectonics, or other things. It's actually a pretty major field in geology, studying minute changes. InSAR and millimeter-accurate differential GPS are two techniques.
Relatively coarse DEM data like ASTER or SRTM is used for different applications where millimeter accuracy isn't necessary - i.e., most things :)
Additionally, there is enough inaccuracy in the instrumentation used for DEM data like this that doing multiple passes will give you significantly different results - the error is measured in meters. Therefore, any small changes - and earthquakes, volcanoes, and tectonic movements are small changes in the big scheme of things - are completely irrelevant as they'll be averaged out anyway. It should be interesting to make a comparison to previous datasets, though, and I'm sure there are people working on that already.
Of course, I suppose you'd notice in this data if a huge volcanic explosion occurred, like when half of Mt. St. Helens blew off. However, that's exceedingly rare :)
IAAGGS (I am a geology grad student).
Parent
Importing ASTER to Google Earth (Score:2)
Seems the project name for this data is ASTER. Of course, what everyone (like me at least) wants to know is how can we import this stuff into Google Earth or NASA World Wind so we can picture the slopes on that mountain bike trail?
As far as I can tell (from very briefly scanning the Exercises ASTER [wimsoft.com] document earlier), you can do this by downloading some tool that comes from the project itself, and then using it to generate a KML file.
Not too hard, but does anyone know more, or have a simpler way? I'm sure
Re:Importing ASTER to Google Earth (Score:4, Funny)
You know, posting this sort of comment on a geek site, where you're really expected to not only be able to download files and load them into existing programs, but you're also expected to (in extreme cases at least) be able to hack into the ftp site using a whistle made from old Pringles containers and then write the downloader and application file in 6502 assembly, while creating run on sentences in Slashdot, is likely to get somebody to tell you to go back to Digg.
Parent
Re:Importing ASTER to Google Earth (Score:4, Funny)
You know, posting this sort of comment on a geek site, where you're really expected to not only be able to download files and load them into existing programs, but you're also expected to (in extreme cases at least) be able to hack into the ftp site using a whistle made from old Pringles containers and then write the downloader and application file in 6502 assembly, while creating run on sentences in Slashdot, is likely to get somebody to tell you to go back to Digg.
So, are you finished with it yet, or should I go back to reading Digg?
Parent
Re:Importing ASTER to Google Earth (Score:4, Funny)
What!!!!! YOU had a pringles can to use as a whistle>????? You kids have it EASY now! In MY day, we had nothing but teeth and pursed lips....and now, alas, nothing but pursed lips..
Now....GET OFF MY LAWN
G,D, R
dave mundt
Parent
Most Complete Topographical Map of Earth Complete (Score:3, Funny)
Remarkable domestic news coverage (Score:3, Insightful)
Did anybody else notice that the report of a newsworthy task by U.S. and Japanese agencies was reported by the BBC? Not ABC, NBC, CNN, or any other U.S. based news agency and certainly not by a Japan based agency. It's coverage like this that keeps me going back to the BBC.
Hiking, etc... (Score:3, Insightful)
This will (well, could) be great for geek hikers like myself; I find the topographical maps available okay, but don't really give one an accurate feel for the lay of the land. Incorporating this map into GPS (or, in the shorter term, some open source mapping software on a PDA-sized device) will be very cool...
Sigh, one of these days I hope to look at the beautiful surroundings nature provides, more than I look at my gadgets I bring with me :) Oh well, navigating/mapping is half the fun of exploring, to me (whether in a car, boat, or on foot).
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How do these folks break even if the data will be free to download and use?
As it stands right now, the US government won't.
Re:Free? How do they do the math? (Score:5, Funny)
How do these folks break even if the data will be free to download and use? A small nominal charge for use or download would not hurt for sure...or would it?
What are you, some kind of RIAA mobster?
Parent
Re:Free? How do they do the math? (Score:5, Insightful)
They break even by people finding profitable uses for it, which then produce tax revenue. Remember, the agencies doing this are US and Japanese government agencies.
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Free is important - think of the grad students! (Score:5, Insightful)
I am actually using this data for my thesis project in geology. Actually, I'm really excited to learn about this, as the previously available 90m resolution SRTM data isn't really sufficient for my needs.
The SRTM data is all free to download, if you can figure out their poor interface for selecting the files you need. If it wasn't, there would be a lot fewer people working with it. It is the most important data for the analyses I'm doing, and without it my thesis would be a lot different (you can do similar things with regular topographic maps, but essentially only by making hand measurements). I'm really glad that I haven't done a ton of analyses using the SRTM data - now I will wait until I can get my hands on the new stuff.
For a grad student like me with little to no funding for my research and a tiny paycheck from working as a TA, even a nominal fee to download is prohibitive. Even for someone that DOES have funding, paying for stuff like this is extremely annoying. Despite what journal publishers want you to think, science is about openness and sharing of information. Most scientists freely share their data and work with others - even those that work with proprietary data in industry, if you ask them nicely.
And as others have noted - we already paid for it. It's produced by the government.
Now, here's the best part - there is actually 30m data from the SRTM mission. However, except for North America, only the 90m data is available, because it's restricted - not by NASA, but by the DOD. So with this new data they've apparently side-stepped the DOD. NASA and the USGS do seem like they want to get their data out their and accessible by scientists, despite what the DOD may want. I am working on Thailand, so the 30m SRTM data was restricted, but now I should be able to get this new data at the same resolution.
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No wonder he's not returning your calls. He can't hear a word your saying on the messages, since your phone is stuck in your rectum.
I think the solution is to just buy a new one. Along with a MacBook Pro and some Apple t-shirts and bumper stickers. Rock on!
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Also did you you forget to post anonymously?
Smidge207 is a troll poster. I believe the real Smidge is Smidge204.
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I'm okay with that. The raw data is free, but generally useless to the average person without some interpretation.
The only thing stopping someone from making a free alternative to those commercial services is lack of cartography skills.
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The previous SRTM data is available completely free to the end-user. I downloaded several gigabytes of it for use in my thesis.
There are commercial vendors who will provide you somewhat better versions of it - with the holes filled, and the individual tiles stitched together. But for someone actually working with the data, that's not really worth much because you can do it yourself in a few minutes.
I'm trying to get the new data right now - I'm still working on my thesis and this will be really great stuff