Submitting a review for consideration is easy; please first read Slashdot's book review guidelines. Updated: 2008114 by samzenpus
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And isn't this the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
A good example of how free, open source, software benefits everyone.
The submission reads like it's different, and that other people have garnered the ovations for these people's work, but the work is in enabling technology, frameworks. Much like Sun doesn't get an ovation or money when a successful Java project is deployed, I fail to see how this is different.
Nice for the coders to get some recognition however.
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"Much like Sun doesn't get an ovation or money when a successful Java project is deployed, I fail to see how this is different."
Sun's engineers were paid for their work on Java. That's the difference.
Recognition is great and all, but it doesn't put food on the table or pay for the computers used to develop the software.
-Chris
Re:And isn't this the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
It was their choice to release their code under an open source license.
I presume that like most good coders, they'll have a decently paying job that is already putting food on the table.
If they wanted to make money from this work, they could have chosen a different license that was more restrictive. They could be offering support or other services for it.
Parent
Re:And isn't this the point? (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly.
Besides, it's not like the contractors downloaded "Bob's IT Dashboard" and changed the logo - by the sounds of things, they just used open source libraries to reduce the development time.
Better than the BBC, for example, who insist on rolling their own libraries for everything, while on the taxpayer's time.
Parent
Re:And isn't this the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I agree with your point, but a better term would be "blame averse", they don't actually care about risk so long as there's a vendor to take the blame when it all goes wrong. Otherwise, FOSS would be the natural choice since it can be audited, and so the risks can be correctly analyzed.
!stealing (Score:5, Insightful)
Whoever tagged this story as "stealing" doesn't understand Free Software. The Federal CIO deserves extra credit for properly understanding and using it. Which, in turn, promotes it in the most powerful way.
Remember that the Feds have given away more software and other tech than any other single source. Including the Internet itself, and indeed jumpstarting computers, microprocessors, and even universal telephone service. Your tax dollars at work - in a way that private industry cannot claim. Events that have changed the world into a much freer place, both for software and for everything else.
Parent
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Some people get bent out of shape when they realize that their "free" license is being used by people other than their low paid peers. Oh my gosh, it's a big money rich group using it. They should pay! {sigh} If I give something away (which I do occasionally), it's free to reproduce at will. I do ask that I'm told if/when it's used in something.
I have a little proof of concept encryption thing online. I look through the Apache logs once in a while to see who's visiting.
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The contractors got paid for their labor. They took these components and put them together. This is exactly what free software is about, making the information technology free (since it's infinitely copyable) and charging people for the labor, which is never free or infinite.
This is great! (Score:5, Insightful)
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FLOSS coders at least want recognition. Not everyone, but many do. Who has said "thanks" to them, who has said "this would not be possible without works of so-and-so"? That's what coders want, at the very least. Apple acknowledges FreeBSD's work. Did the US Government?
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FLOSS coders at least want recognition. Not everyone, but many do. Who has said "thanks" to them, who has said "this would not be possible without works of so-and-so"? That's what coders want, at the very least. Apple acknowledges FreeBSD's work. Did the US Government?
Do the license terms require someone to say "thanks" to them beyond the usual copyright notice and attribution statement? No? Then nobody cares that you didn't get the recognition that you didn't ask for, emo kid.
Re:This is great! (Score:4, Insightful)
Then nobody cares that you didn't get the recognition that you didn't ask for, emo kid.
First, that was uncalled for.
Second, ever heard of good manners? Just because license doesn't order to do it, it doesn't mean the user shouldn't be nice by saying Thanks. Just like it might be nice to click on the "Donate" buttons or seek for alternative way to donate to authors; almost nobody would complain if you did, y'know.
If an expensive US federal project can't even afford to put at least the names of unpaid contributors and honor them in that way... Well, the world is really doomed. I almost always have a "About site" page where I say what tools I used. Because I apparently have some manners.
Parent
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Just like it might be nice to click on the "Donate" buttons or seek for alternative way to donate to authors; almost nobody would complain if you did, y'know.
That's not called good manners, that's called being nice. They're the federal government, they don't do that sort of thing.
I want a Winnebago!
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So, now that I did, I have an additional question: where are the "usual copyright and attribution statements"? Where are they on the site? I can't see them. Please help this emo kid.
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So, now that I did, I have an additional question: where are the "usual copyright and attribution statements"? Where are they on the site? I can't see them. Please help this emo kid.
If the terms of the license aren't being adhered to, then that's legitimate reason to complain. And yes, it is nice to give credit even when it's not required. What's not legitimate is complaining that someone's not pandering to an emotional need for recognition.
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So, you say people have to force you in order for you to acknowledge their free contribution?
Re:This is great! (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
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What a coincidence! I'm just now joining the thread, too!
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"So, you say people have to force you in order for you to acknowledge their free contribution?"
No, he didn't say so. But what he said is that if you forcibly want something, you'd better put it on write in a binding way or else you'll get it... or not. Not rocket science, anyway.
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Budgets are a wonderful thing. If you've ever known anyone who works with the government, you'll have heard of it in action. Say a department is budgeted $1,000,000 USD (a low number by gov't standards). Now say that they've spent $750,000 USD by the end of the month, quarter, or fiscal year depending on the period of that budget. They have two choices. Either they can say "Oh, our job only really requires $750,000", and that's what will be budgeted for the next period, or they can spend t
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You only speak for yourself. You certainly don't speak for me. In fact by trying to take authority for your point of view from your presumption that everyone else agrees with you, you're guaranteed to be wrong, and lose the point.
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Your post has nothing to do with the post I was responding too. It's certainly not the"whole point". Not even a related point.
So? (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? You are concerned about that? Go browse the web for 10 minutes, and show me which websites DON'T use pre-packaged AJAX/JavaScript libraries. EXT, YUI, etc., are all over the place, and used every day. The fact these contractors used these OSS libraries shouldn't concern anybody -- really. Nothing to see here, go on with your Microsoft basing.
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Nothing to see here, go on with your Microsoft basing.
Indeed. Theodp is taking a break from his usual patent bashing [google.com] to slam others for using code according to the terms of the license it was issued under.
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Indeed ROFLMAO :D
Where are the "Funnier than a fart in a space suit" mod points when you need them?
In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
... people developing applications often use libraries that have already been written.
Not News by any stretch... (Score:3, Interesting)
I looked for an F'n article to read, but couldn't find one. It looks more like one person putting together an opinion to post on Slashdot, not '"News" for nerds' in any sense.
Best I could tell from this headline: "Unsung, Unpaid Coders Behind Federal IT Dashboard", is that someone is pissed they didn't get part of the bailouts or federal stimulus. Guess what, whats how socialism works, they should get used to it, we'll see much more. It only really works on paper, eventually you have no motivation to work/create if you end up being "Unsung, Unpaid" and it will eventually collapse.
If someone truly want to contribute to "society" with their code, license it on a per-case basis. Someone you like, license for a few dollars to feed your belly lunch. Someone you don't really like (Microsoft assumed usually in this case), then increase the license fee to where both parties are comfortable with the trade.
(The trade = use of your code for cash. All of society is based on labor trades. Trade for food, clothing, shelter or something that can be later traded for those things, such as gold, guns, political power, etc. Society eventually breaks down when those that produce no labored product expect to be compensated on the same scale as those that do produce a labored product.)
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Gee, another right-wing wanker who doesn't know what socialism is, making up their own definition. And on Slashdot none-the-less!
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Exactly. Just some clown with an AOL email (are they suddenly retro chic?) trolling. How it got to the front page I cannot imagine.
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But this code has already been created. None of the authors had any financial incentive to release it for free, but they have done! Trying to claim that they wouldn't flies against the fact that many projects are and have been created for no other purpose than because their authors wanted to, thought it would be fun, wanted a hobby, or so on. Money is not the only reward.
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Wrong on 2 counts:
permission denied (Score:2)
Alternatives to licensing fees? (Score:2)
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Except this wasn't developed by "The Government." It was developed by a federal contractor, namely "GSA awarded REI Systems a 5-year, $10 million contract in March 2008 to work on USASpending.gov and other OMB systems."
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Even if the software is free, it would be reassuring to see the government encourage further development by offering the coders behind these libraries some sort of honorarium - a public recognition that their work is being used for big things. Even if it's the slap-in-the-face One Dollar honorarium, public acknowledgement is big.
Open source is used in many places throughout the government. This is just one website for one department of the government. It is good that OSS works for them in this case but why publicly recognize the coders or the contractors who put all the components together to make the website what it is? This was a job just like any other contract job. Why recognize the contractors in this case but no others throughout the other departments of the government that hire contractors who end up using OSS in their desig
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This is a Good Thing (Score:2)
The site is running Apache [apache.org] on Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 [redhat.com], and it looks like Drupal [drupal.org] running on PHP [php.net]. What more do you want?
It isn't paying for the code. (Score:2)
These contractors don't get paid 18 million dollars for a web site for nothing. It's called sales and marketing. It is something free coders never have, and it can get very dirty. But it is highly rewarding, as can be seen by all these contractors being awarded absurd amounts of money for code they didn't write, and shit that's worthless. That is why the government shouldn't decide what the people want. They should never be allowed to go shopping, because they do not have a budget, in the normal sense.
Case
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I find developing Free software very rewarding, too, but I think we have different definitions for the word. In my definition, I get to keep my soul.
I get paid good money to do work with FOSS, too, but the 'keep your soul' part really sealed the deal for me.
How do I set to ignore submitters and editors? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because this entire submission is just absolute drivel from FOSS cheerleaders who simply don't understand the fucking point of FOSS.
This is EXACTLY how FOSS is supposed to be used.
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I'm sorry, but you must have confused me for someone who wanted to read your comment.
Re:Not impressed (Score:4, Interesting)
As I have also recently learned, a dashboard is just that: a bunch of charts, graphs and maybe a few summary tables. To literate folks like you and I, it is a huge waste of time and space, but to the average bean counter with half a brain, it is supposedly a tangible vulgarisation of otherwise indigestible data.
The good thing about this gov't dashboard is it seems to have good drill-downs, I was able to click through 3-4 levels deep to find out more and more details. They show you how they calculate a project's rating, and while it is a very simple and potentially misleading metric, at least they lay it out for you (how many deadlines were missed, how often did it go overbudget, etc). They even show a picture of the asshole in charge of each project, too bad you can't click the asshole and have it sort and rate HIS "specific concerns", but they're probably afraid of all the little McVeigh wannabes out there who would love to thin the herd...
Dashboards suck, but this is one of the better ones I've seen. I wouldn't call it worthy of an standing ovation, but I'm just a prick that way. Why don't we ask the old Harvard Graphics folks if they ever got a standing ovation for drawing pie charts, hmm ?
Parent
Re:Not impressed (Score:4, Insightful)
However, making those very same dashboards public-facing is an exercise in futility. A dashboard, by its nature, leverages knowledge that people are expected to already have.
Parent
Re:Not impressed (Score:4, Insightful)
However, making those very same dashboards public-facing is an exercise in futility. A dashboard, by its nature, leverages knowledge that people are expected to already have.
Fail. Just like your car's dash [slashdot.org] tells you things you could figure out from other factors if only you had time, so does a dashboard of financial information. Sure, I could find out how fast I was going by watching my clock and the mile markers, but I need to know sooner than that. A site like this one does the same thing. It's easy to sit back and say "That's useless" when you're contributing nothing, or don't care about the subject matter... Also, just like giving a "dashboard" to an exec, this makes the information readily available to people who aren't accountants.
Parent
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