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Obama Photog Says "You're Both Wrong" To AP & Fairey 222

Posted by timothy
from the faire-use-is-no-excuse dept.
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "In Fairey v. Associated Press, the Associated Press said artist Shepard Fairey's painting had infringed its copyrights in a photo of then-President Elect Barack Obama. Fairey said no, it was a 'fair use'. Now, the freelance photographer who actually took the AP photo — Manuel Garcia — has sought permission to intervene in the case, saying that both the AP and Fairey are wrong. Garcia's motion (PDF) protests that he, not AP, is the owner of the copyright in the photograph, and that he never relinquished it to AP. And he argues that Fairey is not entitled to a fair use defense. According to an article in TechDirt, this intervention motion by Mr. Garcia represents a changed attitude on his part, and that his initial reaction to Mr. Fairey's painting was admiration, and a desire for an autographed litho. Maybe Mr. Fairey should have given him that autographed litho."
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Obama Photog Says "You're Both Wrong" To AP & Fairey

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  • Re:Really? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NewYorkCountryLawyer (912032) * on Sunday July 12 2009, @06:37PM (#28670443) Homepage Journal
    "Photog" was to fit within the space limitations of Slashdot headline requirements. And "litho" was the word used in TechDirt; people use the term "litho" all the time to refer to lithographs.
  • by thhamm (764787) on Sunday July 12 2009, @06:50PM (#28670555)
    say what you want, regarding his taste, full ack. bruni is hot.
  • by TinBromide (921574) on Sunday July 12 2009, @06:50PM (#28670557)
    One other thing. If someone takes a picture of me and only me, shouldn't I have some say in what happens to the picture? I know that there have been instances where car companies have stopped fan made calenders from being distributed (i forget the case law as to who won though), so shouldn't people have rights over their likenesses? If Obama says that the use of his picture is cool, it should be cool.

    We could even use this to "protect the children" in that the subjects could step forth and demand damages. That angle alone should get 90% of washington behind it.
  • by alvinrod (889928) on Sunday July 12 2009, @07:02PM (#28670637)
    I've seen the video, and while there's the possibility that he could have been looking at something else, why should he? Seriously, any sane man would definitely be checking that out. I don't care if I were the king of the universe, I would still be giving that at least a twice over. I don't care if you think it's immoral, inappropriate, or just plain wrong, it's normal male behavior. I don't care if that makes us pigs or not, the only way you couldn't at least toss a casual glance at that either means you're inhuman or not interested. If you watch the video you can tell that Sarkozy is definitely checking that out and for the most part his country could probably give two shits less. If nothing else, that picture tells me that Obama is an average Joe, at least on some level. He may not by the president people want to have a beer with, but I'd stare at some hot ass with him. If anyone thinks this is immoral or inappropriate, go fuck yourself. Seriously, go fuck yourself. You're the same dipshit who wasted time debating whether or not Clinton was getting some side action. You're worrying about the wrong things.
  • by Fred IV (587429) on Sunday July 12 2009, @07:52PM (#28670925)

    Also... It looks like something a mildly talented person could do in under an hour in Photoshop.

    Which is all Shepard Fairey really has to offer the world. All of his best "work" is borrowed more or less directly from another artist's source materials with little to no modification aside from his brand name. [art-for-a-change.com]

    It may be that Duchamp and Warhol paved the way towards the act of selection being defined as a creative act, but I find it difficult to think of Fairey in the same light. His work isn't breaking barriers, presenting irony, or forcing us to rethink our interpretation of the source material he chooses to use. It is blatantly commercial and self-serving, calling attention to the Fairey brand without adding any value or doing any creative work as part of the process.

  • by sker (467551) on Sunday July 12 2009, @09:10PM (#28671403) Homepage Journal

    >>Yes, the photograph is copyright, but the content - Obama looking up in a button down shirt and a tie - is so generic as to be reduced to almost "factual" information when translated into the poster.

    If that's truly the case, then why would Fairey have needed to use the photo at all? If it is generic, why did he use it? Why wouldn't he use his magic artist skillz to create some equally lifelike pose without anyone else's photo? I understand the majority of Slashdot doesn't view photography as a creative art with any intrinsic value. But, if the photo has no value then don't use it. If the original photo adds nothing at all to the "essence" of the final work then Fairey shouldn't have needed it in the first place.

  • by WNight (23683) on Sunday July 12 2009, @09:43PM (#28671661) Homepage

    Neither. Any number of photographers who took identical photos would have their own copyright. Only the one whose photo was traced (if indeed one was) would have a case. If the artist looked at photos but drew his own he's likely fine, unless he took extreme attention to detail.

    If this had been a frame from a video it would (more) likely fall under fair use being an insignificant part of the whole. Each still photo is individually copyrighted, borrowing one still photo is less 'fair' than one frame of a video.

    Frankly any outcome of this trial/issue is counter-factual because we keep insisting you can own ideas. We should all just ignore the law extra hard for a while and hope it goes away.

  • by Overzeetop (214511) on Sunday July 12 2009, @09:54PM (#28671729) Journal

    Fairey had no idea who created the image, and as I understand it there was no credit in the clip he found on the internet. Last year I tried to search for an image of a pro football player (not one of the "stars") to frame for a big fan of his who is a friend. I looked all over the net and found several, but most were not the quality needed for reproduction, and most had no attribution whatsoever. By chance, a full resolution photo was posted to a fan site associated with the team - again with no attribution whatsoever. Luckily, the photographer _had_ placed his name in the EXIF data, and the photo had been uploaded without any modifications. From his name, I found his website and obtained permission to reproduce the photo (he printed a nice 16x20 at his printer and shipped it to me for a reasonable fee). Honestly, it can be hard to track down a copyright owner with all the thumbnail clips on the net. If you stopped 100 people on the street in middle America and asked them how to view the EXIF data on a jpeg photo, do you think you'd get more than 4 or 5 people to actually be able to tell you? I knew, and it was still difficult to find.

    It's not as easy as you think to find the author. I got burned for $2k by Getty about a year ago for two 150x200pixel images on my business website. The images were contained on a "royalty free" CD purchased by my web designer some 8 years prior, and the images contained no attribution to the author or copyright holder. A web crawler for Getty matched the images to their catalog, and I got a "bend over" letter in the mail. The actual usage would have cost me about $180, had I known the images weren't royalty free, and known that Getty owned/managed the copyright.

    I don't think that particular photo made any difference to the art. It could have been one of many photos to act as a "portrait setting" for the bold color scheme and MLK-like pose for the poster (which I believe is the art of the piece)

  • Garcia Is Consisent (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rm999 (775449) on Sunday July 12 2009, @10:54PM (#28672081)

    Regarding this: "There's no way to square this with his original comments"

    I do not believe Garcia is being inconsistent; I would probably have a similar reaction. I put almost all my photographs under the creative commons license, and I am very flattered when anyone considers my photographs good enough to use for anything. Still, I consider this part of the license absolutely essential: "you must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor". I took the energy to take and share my photograph with others, so I think the license I put it under should be respected.

    Although I use a different license than Garcia, we both agree that putting something online should not be the equivalent of completely losing ownership/control of our art. Still, we are both flattered when people do want to use our art. These two beliefs are not mutually exclusive.

  • No man is an island, and all that; I get the general idea. All works are derivative works. But there's a big difference even between being inspired by what you've seen and attempting to duplicate it, and going forth and literally duplicating it. I don't believe that it is theft, or even that it is necessarily wrong in all cases. In fact, I don't necessarily even believe that it is wrong in this case. I do, however, see the obvious argument.

    Ultimately, I think that our society can function without copyright. On the other hand, you can't count on people not to be asshats. If you want photographers to be able to make a living taking photographs and licensing or selling them and so on, you have to believe in their right to control their distribution and use to some extent. It's okay not to want that, although some photographers might disagree. After all, people pay for images used in commercial art every day.

  • by NoName Studios (917186) on Monday July 13 2009, @01:24AM (#28672831) Homepage
    The general rule of photography is never ever sign away the rights to the negative.(In this case, the negative/original file/ownership.) The only time a photographer should sign away those kind of rights is if they are being paid ridiculous amounts for it. There are plenty of cases I hear about such and such photographer sold the exclusive rights away for a low sum, say around $10,000, and the new owner went on to make ten times that.

And furthermore, my bowling average is unimpeachable!!!

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