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| Hello World! Computer Programming for Kids and Other Beginners | |
| author | Warren and Carter Sande |
| pages | 430 |
| publisher | Manning |
| rating | 9/10 |
| reviewer | JR Peck |
| ISBN | 978-1933988498 |
| summary | Computer programming for kids and other beginners. |
I think the list is pretty solid. The only one I think may not be directly applicable to the case it hand is the FOSS angle. Warren explains that being open means that more can be done with the software and that there is a large set of corresponding code out there freely available. A case could be made that this is also true of more closed languages. The one thing I think that could make this important is if the teacher of the material is interested in not just teaching the technical side of programming but is also interested in communicating the philosophical values of freedom. In light of the amount of closed source software and ignorance in regards to FOSS options I've seen in the public school system where I live, I think this may be more important than some think.
The rest of the reasons though I think make Python an incredibly solid choice, and above all else is the simplicity. My daughter has been able to have fun typing code into IDLE without having to get hung up with a complicated environment. The syntax is clean and simple, there is no compiling, it's very easy to just jump in and start making things happen. I think this is important, the younger the student. I was concerned that nine might be just a touch too young for this undertaking. The book itself does not make any recommendations concerning age. The more I've thought about it, the more I agree with that choice. Children vary so greatly and any number chosen would be rather arbitrary. My nine your old has done well so far, but she is already quite a book worm and leans towards more academic pursuits. An older child may struggle and there may be some that are even younger that would be fine with the material in Hello World! So rather than focus on age I think a parent needs to come at this from a perspective of ability, proclivity and experience.
In the ability area, a child is going to know how to read, work with a mouse, and type things via the keyboard. Of course the mouse is optional strictly speaking but most will probably want to use it. Some math skill would be good as well as the ability to understand the use of variables. The book tackles the necessary material in a kid friendly way but it is not dumbed down. In fact the learning potential here is huge, as one may imagine. The book is formatted with lots of visuals and fly-outs that give information on how computers operate and how programming languages deal with information processing. My daughter and I have already had interesting discussions on subjects like integers and floats. An example that draws a sine wave lead to a great teachable moment about amplitude and wave length. Then there is the constant need for approaching problem solving in a structured manner using logic. I think that taking on programming brings a wide number of benefits.
One of the features, is a little caricature of Carter that is placed throughout the book with observations that the real Carter made as he learned with his dad. These are things that a real kid noticed, and so they are likely to stand out to a child working through this book. For instance in the chapter on "Print Formatting and Strings" Carter says, "I thought the % sign was used for the modulus operator!" The book explains that Python uses context to choose how the % sign is used. There are other little cartoon characters that appear throughout the book drawing attention to important points that need to be remembered. Learning is reinforced through quizzes at the end of the chapters. The chapters are not too long but I've found that my daughter and I have to break them into sections because of her typing speed. I've been tempted at times to move things along by typing for her but I know that she will not get the same benefit from the exercise if we do it that way. I will also let errors slide by at times to allow her the opportunity to look at error messages and find the problems.
As I mentioned the book is billed as being for kids and "other beginners." I'm going to say that the primary focus is rightly on kids, and probably kids who are in grade school or maybe junior high. This is not to say that the examples and information wouldn't be great for anyone brand new to programming. There are even some nuggets for someone who has written some code but is new to Python. I am going to guess though that the average high school student will not be as taken with the cartoons and puns. I'd have loved to have written my own lunar lander game at that age though, so maybe I'm selling this short, or maybe it would be something a teen would be happy to work on away from the eyes of others, so as not to appear childish. (I may take heat for this but even as a teenage geek I was immensely worried about the perceptions of my peer group.) I think an adult that was serious about learning to program, even if they had no prior experience, would do better with heavier material. All that said, I think for children they've really hit the sweet spot and as much as marketers would like it to be so, no book can be everything to everyone.
Things start simple with print statements and loops that took me back to good old days of watching messages scroll endlessly by on display computers at Sears when I was a kid. The move towards games starts even then with text and quickly moves on to leveraging Pygame for games that utilize graphics. I think this is important as it keeps things entertaining while teaching important concepts at the same time. I have to say it is quite a bit fun to sit with my child discussing nested loops and decision trees. By the end of the book examples will have included a simple virtual pet, a downhill skiing game and a lunar lander simulation.
I've discussed a child's ability a bit but I think the last two things I mentioned must be taken into account as well. They are proclivity and experience. I've let my daughter drive the time we spend working on this. Just like the parents who project their sports dreams on their kids, I think there is a possibility to do the same with my love for all things digital. It may even be easier to do so as I view the ability to do some amount of programming to be an important life skill. The thing is I don't want to push her too hard and have her back away from it completely. This fits in with the experience part. We take it as it goes, and if things stop being fun, we will back off. I don't do this with her core disciplines from school like reading and math, but for something that is extra right now I'm not going to push. It would transition from being a joy to being work. That brings up a last and unexpected benefit from Hello World! I'm rediscovering a lot of the fun and excitement that drew me into this industry in the first place.
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Thank you! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thank you! (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I catch myself thinking about how well kids have it today
It's like that with every generation. My dad rode a mule to school, I had a school bus. Today's kids (some of them anyway) have air conditioning in the classrooms.
But in a lot of ways the kids have it harder. For instance, there was no such thing as crack when I was a kid, and meth was only manufactured in drug company factories. If I needed a ride I could find a pay phione, today if you lose your cell you can't make a call.
My kids take for granted wh
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
>> It's like that with every generation. My dad rode a mule to school, I had a school bus. Today's kids (some of them anyway) have air conditioning in the classrooms.
You had a school bus?! I had to wait for the district's bus to pick me up. Man, I wish I had my own school bus then. That would have been fun.
-dZ.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."
But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.
sounds like a great book! (Score:5, Funny)
Going to be very disappointed if I get stuck. "This is so simple, even a child can do it! Someone get me a child, I can't make heads nor tails of it!"
You missed the point of your own story (Score:5, Interesting)
You went out of your way to praise your Dad for having the foresight to move beyond his comfort zone by bringing home a computer. Isn't computing simply your version of "sports and cars"? Shouldn't you be trying to emulate your father by moving beyond your comfort zone and bringing home something that will inspire your kids to pursue their own interests rather than yours?
Re:You missed the point of your own story (Score:5, Funny)
Shouldn't you be trying to emulate your father by moving beyond your comfort zone and bringing home something that will inspire your kids to pursue their own interests rather than yours?
You mean like bringing home hookers, guns, or anything similar that might lead them to a fruitful career?
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sorry but what do guns and hookers have to do with each other?
Re:You missed the point of your own story (Score:5, Funny)
one is something that can blow your brains out, the other is a weapon.
OK, I know that's really stupid, but I'm tired.
Parent
Re:You missed the point of your own story (Score:4, Funny)
I'm sorry but what do guns and hookers have to do with each other?
Pimps.
Parent
Re:You missed the point of your own story (Score:5, Interesting)
Get em a RepRap. Teach em to do 3D modeling, back off and let em make their own toys. That's what I'm doing... my kid has already developed a bunch of toys and the circuit boards for our RepRap are in the mail.
As for teaching kids programming, I'd suggest starting with Scratch from MIT. My daughter loves it.
Parent
Re:You missed the point of your own story (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You need to get them hungry to create first. Once they hit those limitations, t
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That's why you give them something that makes the coding easy as in not monotonous but not easy as in done for you. Then they have fun creating and learn to enjoy creating. When they have an idea that they can't implement, THAT is when you introduce the syntax.
Not talking out of my ass here... I tried a bunch of different things, including LOGO and Squeak. Scratch was the best received. Eventually, Scratch will naturally lead to Smalltalk.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Scratch is great in that it teaches how to "think" like a programmer. However, ends up not really doing you a lot of good in the long run. Python is an easy to use language but it also is very "real" in that knowing Python can get you somewhere. That said, Scratch is very easy to use and you can make decent applications in there, but in the end you have effectively a "toy" language which won't really help you in the long run.
How old is the child that you're giving this to? I'm not a huge fan of Python, but I've seen quite a few languages that are a lot worse (or just plain harder for kids to play with, such as assembly), so I'd say my opinion on it is pretty neutral. Having said that, what are the odds that Python will still be a "hot" language in 15-20 years, when the kid will at all care about "getting somewhere" or "the long run"? 20 years ago, how many people would have said that Java would be popular today (yes, I am aware
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
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Having taught kids programming, I've seen kids get really fascinated by the very simple game of "computer picks a random number between 1 and 100, user gets 10 guesses and is told higher, lower, or just right".
What's particularly nifty about that game, besides being easy to develop, is that it's a remarkably short conceptual hop from playing that game to understanding binary searches and base-2 logarithms. I've explained that stuff to 10-year-olds, and while I don't expect them to nail it on a test I do thi
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
" Shouldn't you be trying to emulate your father by moving beyond your comfort zone and bringing home something that will inspire your kids to pursue their own interests rather than yours?"
This is where I disagree somewhat, there are certain subjects that you would love to have been forced to take at a young age but you were not long lived enough and too new to the world to realize their importance.
My relative forced her kids all to go to music school and many ended up becoming musicians out of their own fr
Free alternative (Score:4, Informative)
Start them on a tricycle? Or a GSXR? (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's a question: If we teach our kids to program, do we start them on:
10 N=N+1
20 PRINT N
GOTO 10
or OnClick="doHelloWorld"
After learning to program on a TRS-80 and later GWBASIC but now doing ASP.NET, I find myself looking at code (ExecuteSacalar()) as if every step takes 1/100th of a second, thus slowing performance. When in actuality, it takes a microsecond. Are we better off teaching them how to write an algorithm (How much is 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + N?) or to start with finding what they need in a library? I've seen advantages and disadvantages to both my career.
Much of what I do now is finding the best canned operation (GridView) and toying with styles, rather than rolling my own Repeater. Seldom, but not never, does knowing how to step through a string get used. Although rolling my own DDL's is faster than letting .NET do it.
Should we teach our kids how to ride a motorcycle where pedaling isn't needed? Or do they need to learn to pedal before they ride a motorcycle?
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At that age, do they really need to know how to solve a sigma equation? I remember learning to code on an Apple IIe, writing lines of Apple basic on note pads before typing them in to make sure that I left enough line numbers free to add little patches back in later. No one ever told me that each line of code cost time, nor that each individual step on a line added to that time. In 4th grade, it didn't matter even on those slow computers. We were not dealing with concepts that would be useful in later life,
Not Python! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
There are several reasons usually cited for using whitespace to define code blocks. Here's a decent intro.
http://www.diveintopython.org/getting_to_know_python/indenting_code.html
It's one of those things: I find it completely easy and intuitive. I don't have any trouble switching between python, perl and ksh (which are what I use to get most of my work done). A decent editor (I like vim) will usually take care of auto-indenting.
Or were you just kvetching?
Re:Not Python! (Score:4, Insightful)
It is, of course, purely a matter of taste and habit. Python is certainly as good a language as any. The indentation thing is a showstopper for me, but evidently not for many other people. Also, choosing a programming language for kids is no simple matter, Python or not.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
If you're talking about indenting due to a long line, then most of the time Python makes it quite possible to indent as you please. For instance, this is perfectly ok:
if (a == b and
c == d):
doSomething(foo=a,
bar=b)
doSomething(foo=c, bar=d)
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Re:Not Python! (Score:5, Funny)
So you don't have to argue about brace styles :-)
Parent
The beauty of this book (Score:5, Funny)
FOSS isn't a reason... (Score:2)
FOSS doesn't mean there is a lot of freely available code to look at, FOSS means there is source code for the INTERPRETER that you can modify. I suspect it is written in C or C++, so you don't get any advantages in having the source for the python itself. Now, FOSS is a good argument for using gcc, since you get lots of example code ...
Even "closed source" languages have freely available code to look at. MATLAB, e.g..
Expectations of today's 11 year old different (Score:2, Interesting)
The expectations of today's 9 - 14 year old is very different than for those of us learning BASIC on a Commodore or Atari in the early 80s. I tried Scratch and Kidsprogramminglanguage with my now-13 year old. As soon as he saw the creations we could make he said "at what point do I get to make a game like on Xbox or my computer?" He just wasn't satisfied making lines on the screen or adding numbers or helping to solve his math homework (when it would be easier to solve it in his head). So, yes it would be
Re:Expectations of today's 11 year old different (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Question for the OP (Score:2)
You drew an analogy to parents projecting sports dreams onto their children. Do you see this as a positive phenomenon? Sure, if you value programming as the absolute best thing a child can be familiar with, this makes sense. But what if your child would naturally have favored or have talent in some other area - say physics? The activity you are pursuing with her could lead to relative underdevelopment in physics when naturally she might have become a great physicist.
An article featured on Slashdot a while b
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I love the Lament, it's incredible.
I'd guess (hope?) that you don't bring this book out until / unless your child shows an interest.
But at some point you have to show them SOMETHING though, right? If you don't show them, how will they know what there is to be interested in?
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Very different from days of Compute! and Byte... (Score:3, Insightful)
Back then, if you wanted to play a game you often had to copy programs from source code listings. So you had things like line validators (checksum as you entered each line) and whole sections devoted to programming. The projects, I think, were also very different. I remember building a WeFax device to decode satellite weather facsimile images. There was also the Ciarcia articles that talked about everything from building a micro-computer to assembly programming.
Sure, there are still programming magazines, but we don't have to solve the same things we did then. Now it's just a matter of running CPAN, downloading a Flash or Java snippet, or just a #include.
That's why I'm super grateful for the availability of Linux, free software, and the suite of compilers. I remember saving up for weeks to purchase Megamax C and later GFA BASIC. I remember borrowing a Z80 card so that I could run Borland Turbo Pascal. Now it's a quick download and every language I want is available within moments.
The downside is that it's a lot more complex now. If I wanted to make a graphics program back then, for example on TI BASIC, it was a relatively simple matter to redefine a character set with a bunch of POKEs. Now we have to worry about initializing a window, internationalization, acceleration, etc.. Sometimes it's a bit daunting for non-professionals. Sure, there things like SDL and TCL/TK and a raft of IDEs, but still I don't think it is as easy as it was back then. (Of course, today's software does a lot more).
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Wow, now that brings back memories. I remember typing many, many lines of numbers (with the checksum at the end) and then finally having a stick-figure or something dodge falling balls...
Of course, the real fun began when I finally learned what those numbers meant
Easy start environment: Processing (Score:3, Insightful)
Accessibility is king! But finding which thread to grab amidst the jumble of a modern GUI OS is tricky!!
I have just started playing with "Processing" [processing.org] and it seems to have a nice mix of understandable code and super powerful libraries to take advantage of: cross platform, modern hardware and complex meta-behaviours that we might expect.
As well, I am "sandboxing" with "Parallels" [parallels.com] on top of OSX and I have found it to be very stable. (
HTML/CSS/JavaScript (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is, they're all broken. It's far harder than it should be to get anything meaningful done reliably and well in CSS and HTML, even if the specs were implemented properly. Javascript is hamstrung by crappy implementations with crappily pointless differences between them, and a crappy standard library. Don't get me started on the DOM API, that just makes me cry.
Really, the only advantage that HTML/CSS/Javascript has over Python is that every PC has an interpreter present out of the box, but given t
Educational Programming languages (Score:4, Interesting)
If any parents are reading this, just wanted to mention I've (+other's help) written an article on wikipedia covering the educational programming language domain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_programming_language [wikipedia.org]
Re:C is the only starting language (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, I remember my first days of trying to get anything to work in C. (This was in the days of DOS, before Windows). Hopeless! I'd be trying to program Hello World or a very small addition to hello world like type in a character, and have to reboot the PC because I overwrote system memory :-)
Parent
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
To whoever modded the parent down as "Troll": I really think you're off the mark.
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The first language I did any programming in was Applesoft Basic, because the household computer happened
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Hand your kid a copy of The C Programming Language. If they can't handle that, they are not ready.
Why not just chase him around the yard with a baseball bat?
A lot more humane than your proposal.