"Smart" Parking Meters Considered Dumb 863
theodp writes "The jury's still out on whether Chicago taxpayers were taken to the cleaners by a rushed 75-year lease of the city's metered parking to a Morgan Stanley consortium. But most would probably agree that the new shared Pay Boxes that replaced the city's old parking meters don't exactly live up to their 'Smart' billing. Here's what the redesigned 'user-friendly' parking solution looks like: 1. Park your car. 2. Walk up to 1/2 block to a Pay Box. 3. Wait in line to use it. 4. Use coins or credit cards to purchase parking time — up to $84 for 24-hours (add $50 if you run out of time). 5. Wait for a paper receipt to be printed. 6. Walk up to 1/2 block back to your car. 7. Place the receipt on your dashboard. 8. Head off to your destination, perhaps passing the Pay Box a second time. So before other cities suffer the same fate as Chicago, Portland, and others, is there a 'smarter' way? Some suggest the ParkMagic In-Car Meter, but no new orders are being taken in Chicago. Any other ideas?"
Robots can fix anything. (Score:3, Informative)
Robot Parking Garage [youtube.com]
You can build them upwards, you can build them downwards. They take up so much less space than sidewalk parking. Properly designed, they can park and retrieve vehicles really freaking fast.
Bad idea in general (Score:4, Informative)
Decent system (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Forged Tickets? (Score:3, Informative)
NYC they have wireless auto ticket printers. they'll just scan your registration and print a ticket in a few minutes and let you go to court to sort it out
Re:These things aren't all bad (Score:4, Informative)
They even make these handy devices which can be used to hold quarters and fit in your car's cup holders, or stick themselves to something on the dashboard to the right of the driver, or....
If you don't park downtown regularly - great! $20 in quarters should last a long time. If you do park there regularly - all the more reason to be prepared and stocked up!
Sounds like a standard system to me (Score:5, Informative)
I've seen this in multitude of places world wide. Not so popular in US but exists here and there. What exactly is their problem? Walking half a block extra? I knew people in Chicago were some of the least fit in the country but this sounds like extreme whining. Would they prefer to walk back from wherever they are every hour to "feed the meter"? Or do they want a system that lets them pay without leaving the car? That's called a parking garage :)
The Vancouver Solution (Score:5, Informative)
The system works pretty well in Vancouver, Canada.
You can use coins as normal or you can dial a phone number to pay by credit card. Each meter has a number used to identify it.
The first time you use it, you have to register a license and your credit card number. After that, it remembers it based on your caller id I would imagine. You can register multiple cars no problem. It's a bit of a pain enter your license the first time you use it (it would be nice if you could try to use voice recognition first) but after the first time, it's pretty smooth.
The nice thing is that you don't have to go back to your car when you run out of time. To me, that is the biggest pain of street parking. Forget that you have to go half a block to pay for parking. If you have to run back from a few blocks, or in the middle of eating, that is even worse. With the system, we just call the number again and it asks if you want to extend your time. You just enter how many minutes.
I usually use it like this: (a) put in as many coins as I have and take a picture of the meter which has the id number with my iPhone (b) if I'm not back by the amount of time I got from the coins, I call and add time.
This is honestly a problem? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a Portland resident and have been in constant contact with these meters since they were installed a few years back. Seriously, they are not that bad! I don't know why there is even a debate about them. They are reasonably dispersed in Portland, so the "have to walk" argument does not apply. The price is about what you would expect for street parking... And anybody stupid enough to be street parking for 24 hours deserves the cost. You need overnight? Try a garage. Much cheaper.
So far, no drawbacks. Plus you can use a credit/debit card. I was thrilled when these went in here in Portland, and I haven't changed my mind yet.
Can somebody please give a solid answer as to why these meters are a problem?
Re:There must be a better way (Score:1, Informative)
What, like Hong Kong Octopus Card [wikipedia.org]?
Re:scratch-off cards (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Get rid of... Parking Meters! (Score:2, Informative)
You don't need to charge to enforce time limits. It is perfectly possible to have a "Max stay 1 hour" rule (enforced by ticketing or towing violators) without needing to charge everyone who doesn't overstay their welcome.
I like them.. (Score:3, Informative)
They work great in Portland Oregon. I don't mind walking a little ways and I can move to another spot and keep my time. The only thing I don't like about them is that they don't take dollar bills, only coins and cards.
Re:Race Condition? (Score:2, Informative)
That is why you have multiple meters per block (Score:3, Informative)
Seattle has these meters and you can walk about three or four cars in any direction and find a meter. *Three or four cars* Gasp! I'm getting winded just typing about the horror!!!
Taiwan system is driver friendly (Score:5, Informative)
In Taiwan it appears driver friendly rather than operator friendly. People just park and leave, then a parking inspector would come round every 30 minutes or something, take a photo of their number plate with a device, and leave a waterproof ticket on their windshield. Each time the inspector comes round he or she leaves more tickets on each windshield. When the driver comes back they get all the tickets and pay them at the nearest 7-11. I assume you have a certain grace period to pay the tickets.
Look Ma, No Competition! (Score:4, Informative)
You'd think, but at least in Chicago, the privatization contract included anti-competitive clauses:
Section 3.12. Competing Off-Street Parking.
(a) Subject to Section 3.12(b) and Section 3.12(c). the City will not operate, and will not permit the operation of, a "Competing Public Parking Facility." A "Competing Public Parking Facility" means any off-street public parking lot or public parking garage that (i) is (A) owned or operated by the City or (B) operated by any Person and located on land owned by the City, or leased to the City, (ii) is within one mile of a Concession Metered Parking Space, (iii) is used primarily for general public parking; (iv) has a schedule of fees for parking motor vehicles that is less than three times the highest Metered Parking Fees then in effect for Concession Metered Parking Spaces in the same area; and (v) was not used for general public parking on the effective date of this Agreement.
Our solution: Send SMS (Score:2, Informative)
Re:passing the ticket (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Race Condition? (Score:3, Informative)
In Portland, they have one meter on the face of each block with parking. At worst, you have to cross the street or go around a corner, if the one meter on your face is broken. So odds are, you'll be able to see the parking enforcement person walking to your car, and yell "I'm at the pay-station!" (I've done that once, and it was a case where the meter on the side I was on was out-of-order, so I was on the other side of the street.) In parking in downtown Portland metered spaces a couple hundred times since they put these meters in, I've run in to a broken meter less than a dozen times; probably fewer than half a dozen; and I've only ever been caught at the meter when the enforcement person was coming by once. (I have been annoyed to walk up to my car five minutes after expiration to already find a ticket on the windshield, though.)
Also, as for 'line', the *MOST* I've ever seen is one person using the machine, plus a second waiting. Then again, Portland does have shorter-than-average blocks (200 feet,) so at most eight cars per side. So the odds of having more than two people parking in a close enough span of time to each other to 'clog' a meter is a big long.
Re:already (Score:3, Informative)
To be fair, the way TFS describes it is definitely not how it works in Montreal or any of the cities in Europe where I've used them.... The central reader has some kind of wifi/rfid in it, and they're all networked. You can add time at *any* of the pay stations as long as you remember which parking spot you were in, and you don't have to walk back to your car to put the piece of paper on the dash.. that's a receipt and proof for your records. Unless you find a parking spot that's immediately in front of where you're going (and how often does that happen?) you won't have to change direction and go back to your car after you've paid at the meter. There's enough of them that you have a reasonable guarantee of passing one on your way from your car to your destination, sometimes several.
To check who's paid up, the meter maids just have to drive past a pay station. That will update their computer with the list of local parking spots, and will flag any parking spots where you're over time. In Montreal, I've seen the meter maids drive up a street, passing dozens of cars without stopping to check that your ticket is up to date. I've also seen them stop, get out, write a single ticket, and drive off. And yes, I've seen them stop, write half a dozen tickets, then drive off. All of this without ever looking at the dashboard of the car to see if the ticket is on display, let alone reading whether it's paid up.
Pay & Display is so last century.
Re:This is honestly a problem? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Number each spot (Score:1, Informative)
I live in Calgary, Alberta (Canada) and that's how our new (two years old?) parking system works. You walk up to a pay station, punch in your license plate and zone number, throw your credit card through and you're good to go. They drive around with a car covered in cameras taking pictures of license plates, check them against the meter database and if you haven't payed, you get mailed a ticket. You can also pay via cell phone, if you park downtown enough to justify it.
Re:Decent system (Score:2, Informative)
It's a matter of perspective. (Score:2, Informative)
Or maybe the Chicago ones are too sparse and the Portland ones are placed frequently enough?
Portland has twenty blocks per mile compared to the more typical ten blocks per mile in most other big cities. So if there is a meter on every block it's going to be much closer to you in Portland than elsewhere.
Re:It's supposed to be difficult (Score:4, Informative)
Most people here seems to regard parking meters as normal and acceptable devices. Fact is that the SOIL is public. That means that the SOIL is YOURS. Now would you like to be charged for living into your house? I doubt it. So why can you accept that someone is renting your land? Here now you are debating which form of stealing is better for you. Like debating whatever is better to be eaten by a lion or a tiger.
*LONDON CASE* - Just in case my points need proof. London is the best example that the government is not able to get public transport done in a decent way. Those who had the pleasure to visit London had the pleasure to witness the outcome of this resignation policy, where citizen don't question for a long time the actions of their governors.
Tube: In london the tube is the most expensive [guardian.co.uk] public transport [luxist.com] of the world. To eradicate privacy concerns you are told that you've got no privacy: the tube is covered with cameras. They are there just to easen your feelings of unsecurity and keeping souvenir videos of dead kamikaze bombers for later inspection.
Congestion Charge: You can't use your car if you don't pay. Basically 16$ [drivers.com] flat rate to get into the city. Cameras with number plate recognition software will note every car entering the charging zone. At the end of the day number plates will be cross referenced against a database of payments made -and don't forget to fuck privacy.
Parking: Public parking in central london is practically non existant. Where it is available the rates are so high that made possible for a private parking industry [gosimply.com] to florish (usually 36$ per day, 3,60$ per hour). With the advent of decriminalised parking the practice is becoming much more widespread and as evidenced by the TV docu-soap 'Clampers', can be very arbitary: "clampers using threatening behaviour". Insane measures [drivers.com] to clamp even bikes: Inside the Greater London area all footway parking is prohibited unless it is specifically exempted and signs indicate that you may park partially or wholly on the footway. -
Conclusions: In london there is no other options but to be raped insane charges by local authorities. You take a bike, you can't park and risk clamps - You take a car you pay for using (congestion charge) and parking (if and when you find a spot) - You take the tube you are going to pay the most expensive transport system of the world AND you are still uncertain if you can reach your destination in time or whatever [tfl.gov.uk] (It's like lotto, if you're lucky you get in time, if youre not lucky you're screwed since anything can happen, from detours to surface lines, delays or anything else - Also take for granted that when it happens you will find yourself dumped in parts of the city you never knew they existed before).
Re:It's supposed to be difficult (Score:1, Informative)
OT but you neglect to mention that there's no congestion charge if you live in central London or at weekends and given the traffic volume at rush hour no sane person would want to drive in anyway. Plus the tube isn't that much on Oyster and that's anonymous.
Re:It's supposed to be difficult (Score:5, Informative)
That's not true about biking - the biggest worry about having a bike in London is that it will get stolen / vandalised when you lock it up. It doesn't stop people though, there's a thriving bicycle scene here, and I call bullshit on the idea of bikes being clamped (the clamps wouldn't fit for a start).
The tube is a pain in the arse - but that's mainly because when it was built they didn't think it necessary to put in 4 tunnels (like in NY), so they aren't able to maintain it properly (in NY they routinely shut down 2 tunnels to fix them, without having to shut down the whole line - in London they barely manage to keep the lines working in the 6 hours of down-time every night).
Then there's the overland rail network, and the buses - they have their problems too but they do give you options (I take the bus into work, and my journey is consistently between 20 and 30 minutes, and I always get a seat).
Anyone who drives in central London is crazy and / or masochistic, but what's new? It's been that way for ever, that's why I don't bother having a car. When I really need one I use a streetcar ( http://www.streetcar.co.uk/ [streetcar.co.uk] ), a service that pays the congestion charge anyway (and note that it's only the centre of the city that has the charge, and only during office hours).
Then there's the DLR in East London, or the south London tram service - both examples of well-run, clean and effective public transport whose only downside is that they only service parts of the city.
In regards to the article - if you're looking for a 'smart' meter, how about using your mobile phone: http://www.bromley.gov.uk/transportandstreets/parking/park_phone_and_go.htm [bromley.gov.uk]
Finally: "where citizen don't question for a long time the actions of their governors." - O RLY?
Re:There must be a better way (Score:1, Informative)
Uh yeah, try leaving change out in your car and wait to see how long before the crack heads break into it. I live in Philly and you can't leave anything out in your car or it will get broken into.
Also we have some of the "smart" meters called muni-meters. They are only prevalent in areas with a very high turn over and lots of foot traffic, everything else is a regular meter.
Re:It's supposed to be difficult (Score:2, Informative)
Is that really all that typical? I drive 15 miles a day, max.
And don't have to pay for parking. Most employers own parking space.
So, the only way you pay for parking is if you need to park in front of a store, on city property. And even then, cities provide free parking space in many places, it's generally only certain areas where there is a fee.
Parking fees are not charged to discourage driving, they are charged to generate revenue for the city in highly-frequented areas. They also serve to reduce contention for limited parking space, which provides order, discourages dallying, and may actually increase business.
They may have a side-effect of discouraging parking in front of stores, and therefore, discouraging business to those stores, also.
But if they were that concerned about it, the stores should have purchased additional land and provided parking space for their customers.
This is not about cars or congestion on the road, it's about contention for a limited resource (parking space), because most land in cities is purchased and used for building store fronts, instead of leaving it bare.
The contention is so high, that not only can cities charge, but running a private for-pay parking lot can be a highly profitable business in its own right.
Re:It's supposed to be difficult (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Jury Isn't Out (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It's supposed to be difficult (Score:4, Informative)
>>>Technically, you never truly 'own' property.
Property tax was invented by the Progressives, who would probably call socialists in today's terminology. There was a problem where rich people were buying land, saving it, and then selling it for profit. That drove-up land prices and made it difficult for poor or middle income citizens to buy land. The progressives/socialists came-up with the idea of property tax.
Basically the property tax is supposed to offset any profit, and thereby discourage speculation. As with most good ideas, it was perverted and now it's become a way to turn citizens into the modern-day equivalent of serfs. You rent the land rather than own it.
The worst type of property tax is in Virginia where you pay a tax on your car. Why? A car's not property - it's an appliance; it depreciates rapidly. There's no valid reason to charge an annual tax/tribute on a depreciating hunk of metal, anymore than you'd pay property tax on a refrigerator or a stove or a television.
Greedy politicians.
Re:There must be a better way (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, enough with bashing Americans. The Brits are at least catching up, if not passing, America in obesity. So is China. If it makes you feel better about yourself or the country you live in then go ahead, but let's hope that the air of superiority doesn't blindside you when you or your family members find themselves overweight.
PS: most people in NY don't own cars. They get places by walking and standing on the subway for an hour when there are no seats.