The Register is reporting that EMC co-founder Richard Egan has committed suicide. The article has an interesting look back at some of his accomplishments. "Egan had an amazing life, encompassing involvement in the Apollo space program, the US Marines, starting and building the most successful storage company on the planet, and becoming the US ambassador to Ireland. Finally, aged 73 and facing a lingering death, he ended the battle decisively and on his terms. He was never a shrinking violet."
"Suicide" makes it sound like he was depressed. Sounds like this guy wasn't. He decided to go out on his own terms. He chose euthanasia. If only we all had such bravery when facing such a long debilitating decline.
He, instead of scrabbling away and clinging to anything he could (and just making it longer) like many of us would, stood tall, squared his shoulders, and walked into it's maw.
That, is bravery.
Death, is the one final unknown. Our species seems to be wired into fearing the unknown. Death, being one of the absolute unknowns, is also one of the absolute fears. The man was not afraid of this absolute.
I don't fault the guy. I mean, if terminal lung cancer is as bad as it sounds, I might have pulled the trigger on my own terms too. Who in the hell want's to die an agonizing death when a bullet to the head seems like the cure in comparison?
I don't fault the guy. I mean, if terminal lung cancer is as bad as it sounds, I might have pulled the trigger on my own terms too. Who in the hell want's to die an agonizing death when a bullet to the head seems like the cure in comparison?
Assuming the terminal cancer was the reason for his suicide, which is a supposition to begin with. The fact that he was caught up in a tax haven and the IRS was on his back... well, one could imagine it can be a little more nuan
Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.
Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.
Personally, I'd rather not be the kind of jerk that leaves a huge mess for someone else to clean up when it's time to fold up my affairs, but YMMV.
As an active skydiver, I'm asking you nicely to pick another one of those choices. It's no fun for anyone standing around the DZ on a nice sunny day when selfish fuck decides to use our sport as his means to kill himself. It's no fun having to watch the paramedics try to save their life when you can see in their eyes they're dead. It's no fun to see the faces of the children who just came to see mummy get strapped to some man and go tandem when they realise that shit on their shoes used to be a living person.
So do us all a favour, and fuck off.
I'll leave the other ideas to the active climbers, motorcyclists and others who you'd like to make shit for.
If you do decide to end it all, I hope you would have the courtesy of doing so in a manner that doesn't harm your bystanders. Every now and again, I get news about some jackass who decided he wanted to kill himself, and then went out onto the highway to slam his car into another vehicle or walk out in front of traffic or a train. I remember once witnessing the moments after a suicide on an opposing Metra Rail track. We had to sit there for 40 minutes as people came to spray the area. The passengers on the other train had to have been sitting there even longer. All I could think was, that guy was a real dick.
I'm not normally judgmental about suicide. But one shouldn't traumatize people or potentially injure or even kill bystanders in the process. That's just selfish.
When I finally do the deed myself, I wish to be in my nice comfy chair with a favorite drink, a favorite song playing, and maybe my TV playing some video that means a lot to me. I don't have time for displays of machismo, and I'm not rude enough to leave a bloody mess for someone to clean up after.
As an active firefighter in a busy area, I ask too that you please off yourself in a way that doesn't require me to get out of bed at 0-dark-thirty hours, risk myself in an emergency response, and then proceed to cut your dead or dying ass out of a mangled car, or wash your brains off of an interstate highway. I also don't envy the cop who has to tell your next of kin how your stupid ass decided (s)he was being an idiot and killed some guy's innocent kid with your rocket of a motorcycle or corvette.
Thanks from your local public servant!
That, or he fears pain more than death. Most people fear pain, a lot.
He, instead of fighting the pain and clinging as long as he could (and affording himself the possibility of a medical breakthrough or a medical miracle), like many of us would, simply gave up and took his ball home.
From a certain perspective, that is cowardice.
Death is a complete unknown. Rather than face the pain he knows, clinging to another few years, days, hours with loved ones, he instead walked headfirst into what could very well be worse pain and debilitation (think any religion's hell), yet clearly in a desire to avoid the pain and debilitation that he knew.
From a certain perspective, that is stupidity.
I don't think we can really judge one way or the other, though. At a certain point, it's a choice between being a burden to your family as you slowly drift into a coma and then death, or cutting off all medical treatment (and thus bills).
My father in law is currently dying from terminal cancer and I reckon anybody who has seen it happen would look for a fast way out. What I am seeing now is almost indescribably horrible. I don't blame this guy one bit.
My grandfather died (ostensibly) from Parkinson's. My other grandfather died (also, ostensibly) from a stroke. I say "ostensibly" because neither of these things were capable of killing the men by themselves.
In the first case, the man's wits were always totally about him, but his communication and motor skills dropped to such a useless extent that he plainly felt he was a burden. He was very intelligent, and a quiet thinker: Someone you listened to when they talked, no matter how lengthy or succinct the conversation. My family kept him alive for years too long -- he was only going to get worse, not better.
In the latter case, the man's wits weren't always about him, but he was plainly aware that he was on his last legs and wouldn't be long in this world. He was an intelligent, outgoing, and very lucky reactionist who thrived on stress: Someone you listened to very intently, even if you thought they were wrong, because their thoughts were still very useful to absorb. My family kept him alive for years too long, as well -- he had more than one stroke in the nursing home, and had a long history of cardiac problems before then.
Both were accomplished (in terms of family reverence and fiscal good fortune). They lived good, honest lives, had their shit together, and were completely loved by those around them.
But, they lived too long. They were all used up.
Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment.
I hope your Grandpa-in-law does well with whatever comes.
(And for a disclaimer: No, death and suicide aren't always fair, and aren't always the fair means to an end. My own sister, whom I was also very close to, killed herself while she was still young and in rather good physical health about three years ago. Something about a hose, some duct tape, a 1996 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, a secluded garage, a bunch of cocaine, a lot of unhelpful friends, and an undiagnosed case of schizophrenia combined to make this happen. I wish I could've done more for her, and will probably regret that I hadn't for the rest of my own life.)
"Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment."
Great post, you summed that up well.
Whatever you do don't blame yourself for someone else's suicide.
I have been haunted by the suicide of my closest friend for 25 years. Same method too. It is always easy to see the signs after the fact, but virtually impossible in some cases beforehand.
Another of my closest friends died of breast cancer (Metastisised) at 32 a few years ago. When she knew the end was near she went out and partied real hard, and died 2 days later. At least she went out how she lived with great spirit-and the best illegal drugs!
If she had stayed in Hospital she could have probably lived for another month at most, and we her friends would have had to watch her die slowly and painfully. Her bravery in not allowing her friends to suffer with her for a month was incredibly moving.
Rather than face the pain he knows, clinging to another few years, days, hours with loved ones, he instead walked headfirst into what could very well be worse pain and debilitation (think any religion's hell), yet clearly in a desire to avoid the pain and debilitation that he knew.
That's clear to you? I'm amazed at your total knowledge of the subject. Let me add a few additional considerations (of which you are obviously aware) for the rest of the readers without your gift.
My aunt died of breast cancer about ten years ago - I was in middle school at the time, and understandably ignorant of most aspects of the real world. She had been diagnosed maybe 7 or 8 years before that. The woman was incredible - driven, successful, brilliant, beautiful, and one of the most caring and compassionate people I've ever known.
Her family was wealthy, and with her own success and that of my uncle (got out of a high level position in AT&T at exactly the right time), she had the means to fight the disease better than most... and fight she did. She consulted with doctors all over the world, tried the most advanced treatments available, stuck strictly to regimens that many people give up on because of the pain, and never complained, cried, or once gave us reason to pity her beyond our knowledge of her disease (at least, not that I, my parents, or my grandparents ever witnessed... my uncle no doubt has a much different perspective on this).
She was incredibly strong - until the bitter end, she struggled to hide the horrors of the disease from everyone. Until the very end of her struggle, I was mostly unaware of any ill effects - she wore stylish hats to hide her hair loss, covered her pale complexion with make up, wore heavier clothes add bulk to her wasting body... everything possible just to make us happy and comfortable around her, despite the dizziness, nausea, pain, fear, despair, and everything else she was hiding behind her smile. She had a young daughter that she didn't want to traumatize, and friends and family who loved her dearly. She felt she had to present an optimistic, healthy, happy appearance to us so we wouldn't mourn her while she still fought her battle.
Why did she fight? I have no idea. Maybe she was afraid of death (somehow I doubt this was high on my aunt's list of priorities). Maybe she genuinely thought she might live to help raise her daughter (she was about 13 when she died - my aunt succeeded in seeing her grow to be a smart, beautiful young woman). Maybe there were financial (i.e. insurance, inheritance, whatever) reasons. Maybe she felt suicide would be too traumatic for us to deal with. Maybe she was afraid of whatever afterlife may await those who commit suicide (she was a good Catholic). Maybe she didn't want to let random luck and an evil disease decide her fate for her without at least fighting with all she had. Maybe it was all of these, or something else, or nothing at all. The point is, she chose to fight, and we supported her in that decision... to the degree she allowed anyone to support her, of course.
I still look up to her to this day... her dignity and strength in dealing with the disease, and the beauty of the life she led. I think she made her decision mostly out of love for her family, and I will never criticize her decision to cling to life, not just because I don't know all the factors that went into the decision process, but because I'm not qualified to judge those factors or the weights she assigned to them. I will add a few observations, however.
Having seen her deterioration in the last year of her life, and the impact it had on my family, I can say that her slow, agonizing death certainly WAS a traumatic experience for us, despite her heroic efforts to hide it. My uncle was a broken man (he's not nearly so strong as my aunt was) for the last few years, and the pain has never subsided (though he's gotten better at hiding it). The effect on the family might have been different had she chosen a different path, but
So every terminal cancer patient who doesn't commit suicide isn't brave? By trying to survive they're "scrabbling away and clinging to anything they could?" Sounds like you're saying all the terminally ill who don't commit suicide are pathetic cowards. What about the ones who endure all the pain (physical and psychological) and some how beat the odds (it's happened many a times)?
People who commit suicide all have their own reasons. I think the important thing is to not judge them, regardless of what their circumstances happen to be, as we'll never know what they were going through and the reasoning behind their decision. It's their life. They should have the right to end it if they want. It's really no one else's business.
But let's not try so hard to glorify someone' death that we start denigrating those with the will to live on. This guy obviously lead a very full life filled with many great & admirable accomplishments. Let's just leave it at that. His suicide was just the final period at the end of a fascinating life story. Our attention should be on everything that came before it.
He, instead of scrabbling away and clinging to anything he could (and just making it longer) like many of us would, stood tall, squared his shoulders, and walked into it's maw.
This really is a western attitude. Take a look at Japan, where suicide is considered an honourable death, even preferred over being a living failure. Buddhist cultures like Thailand or Cambodia, the reincarnation religions combined with life being cheap, easy for them to justify what we westerns consider absolutely stupid behaviour (Driving is the first thing that comes to mind) with "it OK, I come back, next life". Of course they don't want to die, but there isn't the absolute fear of it that we have in the western world.
The church is the biggest reason we have laws against suicide. Taking your own life is the only real power we have, to live or to die and the bible says that only God has the right to decide who lives and who dies thus suicide is a sin. We are trained to despise death from day one, we've built legal systems around this making it "wrong" to take your own life and even worse to spare someone pain by assisting suicide (Euthanasia). So by this logic, suicide is not considered bravery, on the contrary it is selfishness and I suppose that it is to an extent but it is the one bit of selfishness we should be entitled to.
I applaud this person for choosing when he was to die. I too would rather end it quickly then become an inconvenience on others with a terminal illness, plus I'd get to organise a really big party before I go (a bit morbid yes, but so is a funeral). Also look up Einstein's death [wikipedia.org] he too also chose to go with a bit of grace by refusing life exending surgery. quoting Einstein,
"I want to go when I want. It is tasteless to prolong life artificially. I have done my share, it is time to go. I will do it elegantly."
by Anonymous Coward
on Monday August 31, @11:35PM (#29270103)
Yes, because people left behind would never get screwed up seeing you die slowly and painfully, weezing (quite literally) your last in some hospital ward as you gradually lose control of your bodily functions. That would obviously be much less traumatic for them than putting your affairs in order, saying goodbye with dignity and making a (relatively) clean exit.
You shouldn't have posted A/C. You're very much right.
I saw my dad dying. It wasn't pretty. My last memories of him are in the hospital bed, which I'm sure wasn't the way he wanted to be seen going out. He was military also, but he wouldn't have chosen the gun to the head route. He fought to the end, in disbelief that he could be dying. Unfortunately, there was a burial, and now a gravestone to prove it. His mantra was "it's indigestion", when in reality it was heart attacks, which took their toll. He was smart, and he knew the truth, but sometimes we'll ignore the simple truth when it's bad enough.
If he could have taken his last day on his terms (but not quite so messy), he may have taken that route. But I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have, simply because he refused to believe it. At very least, he could have saved himself the last day of suffering.
My step son was almost luckier. He died quickly in the comfort of our home by natural causes (a seizure). He had already told us, he had no recollection of anything that happened during his seizures, so he was completely unaware of what happened. His mother and I were the first to find him, and despite the obvious truth, I performed CPR until the paramedics arrived. He was already rigor, but I refused to believe it. I did tell the 911 operator "he's rigor-like". Not rigor mortis. I refused to believe the truth, even though I knew better. The paramedics were kind when they showed up, but there was nothing for them to do but talk us through it.
Damn. I was having a good night. Now I'm stuck with the memories of what happened again. They never do go away, but sometimes they can be sidetracked with better memories of the people we loved.
While I think Bill Maher is a misogynist dickhead, he does have one great quote on suicide.
It's our way of telling God "You can't fire me. I quit!"
The sad thing is this guy should NOT have had to go in a closet and blow his head off. Never ceases to amaze me how we euthanize animals on compassionate grounds, and yet we humans, we're expected to suffer.
"May this not be that the voluntary surrender of life is an ill compliment to him who said that all things were very good?"
From Schopenhauer's "On Suicide":(Hollingdale's translation)
"Christianity carries in its innermost heart the truth that suffering(the Cross) is the true aim of life: that is why it repudiates suicide, which is opposed to this aim, while antiquity from a lower viewpoint approved of and indeed honoured it. This argument against suicide is however an ascetic one, and is therefore valid only from a far higher ethical standpoint than any which European moral philosophers have ever assumed. If we descend from this very high standpoint there no longer remains any tenable moral reason for damning suicide. It therefore seems that the extraordinary zeal in opposing it displayed by the clergy of monotheistic religions - a zeal which is not supported by the Bible or by any cogent reasons - must have some hidden reason behind it: may this not be that the voluntary surrender of life is an ill compliment to him who said that all things were very good? If so, it is another instance of the obligatory optimism of these religions, which denounces self-destruction so as not to be denounced by it."
Seems to me that insisting that someone who wants to die rather than suffer from an incurable terminal disease will instead have to live with pain for many months instead, just so that some nurse and doctors can get some moolah and "contribute to the economy" is incredibly ghoulish. If the guy wants to die to avoid dragging the inevitable out, let him. That money will be spent in other ways and still circulate in the economy; decreasing the national debt through inheritance taxes, and/or spent by the family. It will be better spent than keeping somebody alive and in pain against their will. the latter sounds an awful lot like torture to me.
Doesn't surprise me. Until very recently, only the wealthy could afford the food/rest/care to even survive any serious illness. The problem of what to do with old people when the medical care is too good is a recent problem and our society hasn't cast its collective conscience's vote yet on what attitude to adopt toward human euthanasia. Eventually we'll reach a mature, stable decision one way or the other.. but you can't rush it.
Also there are a lot of thorny ethical issues. For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm." Doctors can't even prescribe lethal injections when a court orders execution; prisons have to get those drugs 'semi-legally' without going through a real doctor. Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society. And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally...
Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous.
For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm."
First off, the Hippocratic Oath does not say "do no harm". It does say that doctors should not do assisted suicides, perform abortions, or perform surgery. Luckily, doctors don't take it any more and haven't in my lifetime. I'm not sure why people think they do. Some take substitute oaths, like the Declaration of Geneva;* others take no oath.
immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous
"Immediately"? That's a topic that's been up for debate throughout all of recorded history. Which is why the Hippocratic Oath mentions it. Generally, it's been shot down by religious leaders in western cultures because suicide is a sin. It'd be awful nice if we could get past the argument that an invisible fairy will get mad at you and address it as two questions: Does a person own his or her own life, and if so, under what criteria is suicide appropriate? For example, I could see not allowing someone suicide due to schizophrenia because it interferes with rational decision-making. I could also see it a no-no for the parent of a minor child, under the assumption that his or her duty to the child supercedes any rights to opt outta life. But just screaming that it's wrong isn't gonna last in today's secular political climate.
* Which also does not say "do no harm", but does say "I will maintain the utmost respect for human life". On the flip side, the doctor also promises to never violate human rights - some would argue that the right to die at a place and time of one's own choosing is a human right.
Speaking from a country that has had legal euthanasia for quite some years already:
"For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm.""
Inappropriately lengthening peoples lives and pain in the case of a severe illness can be construed to be doing harm. Doctors are used to keeping people alive and using this as a metric for their effectiveness. Maybe there should be a bigger focus on quality of life and less on plainly being alive. Also, keeping someone alive because of your own personal (religious) beliefs is morally objectionable if the patient does not share these beliefs. I'll leave to the readers imagination what I think of the moral implications of the problems in applying the death penalty as you describe it.
"Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society."
First, get a decent healthcare system to spread the costs. It seems every discussion on slashdot heads in the direction of the US healthcare system lately, maybe there's change in the air. Secondly, financial considerations are also weighed by medical staff in the decision to use a certain treatment to keep someone alive or not. This is one of the most serious dilemma's we'll face in the decades coming: how much is a life worth or how much is another year of living worth. This stems directly from the invention of new and costly medical treatments and this issue will be important, regardless of legalizing euthanasia or not.
"And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally..."
I see no paradox here except in your mind: why is petitioning for euthanasia irrational?
"Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous."
I don't think anyone is suggesting this. Do you? I think most people in favor of legalizing euthanasia have a very sound idea of what checks and balances should be in place to prevent misuse. I know there are many safeguards in place in the dutch system for legal euthanasia and I think the practice is widely supported and considered far superior to blasting ones brains out in desperation.
With respect to whether forcing someone to live in pain and without dignity is a violation of the Hippocratic Oath -- yes, it is. This is why so many doctors nowadays are taking continuing education classes in chronic pain management and death with dignity.
Under current ethical guidelines, a doctor is allowed to prescribe any amount of narcotic necessary to manage the pain of a terminal patient, even if that dose of narcotic will hasten the patient's death. (The law has not caught up with medical ethics, but it's in the process of doing so.)
If the only way to manage the pain of your terminal illness is to give you a dose that will hasten your death, the AMA says that if you ask for it I am allowed to ethically give it to you. The AMA also says that I should tell you that very powerful drugs are available to manage your pain, and to encourage you not to live in pain. I can't force you to take the Fentanyl patch, but I can make sure you know you have that option available to you and that no one will think less of you for it.
Pain management, dignity, hospice care, etc. -- these are all ways medicine in the US is trying to balance the Hippocratic Oath against the indignities of terminal care.
The suicide rate in Japan is about 51 per 100,000 people [medicalnewstoday.com]. The rate is high but is less than the rate in some European countries. The rate in Lithuania is 92 per 100,000 people.
There is a curious pattern in the suicide rates. The rates among ethnic groups who built the most prosperous, high-quality societies (i. e., Western societies) are the highest in the world. The rate in Japan and Europe is much higher than the rate in, say, Nigeria. Most African nations do have shockingly high death rates, but that is due to murder. Suicide is quite uncommon in Africa.
What Richard Egan did is very Japanese. He concluded that his life would be a burden on his family, his friends, and himself. So, he chose to die by his own sword. He died with honor.
I'm pretty sure you're implying China or India, and you have check your facts. Their economies may be large and successful, and some part of the population may be well off even by western standards. However the majority of people, both in China and India live in abject poverty, and their economies are creating ecological disasters of enormous proportions.
Check out this list, http://geography.about.com/cs/worldpopulation/a/mostpopulous.htm [about.com] where the countries are listed by population size. Except for the western countries, every single other one has at least one major issue, besides poverty for a majority of the people, that precludes it from being a success. For instance Brazil is destroying the rain forest, Pakistan is anything but politically stable and large portions are controlled by the Taleban, Nigeria is destroying the Niger delta for oil, and so on.
If you think there is anyone in the U.S. living in abject poverty, you either don't have any idea what living in the U.S. is like, or you haven't a clue what abject poverty is.
Well, please read the article. He was suffering from Stage 4 lung cancer, diabetes and high BP. I'm no doctor, but that looks fairly terminal to me. Why the fuck should I hang around as a vegetable?
Suicide is devastating to those who care, yes; but in this case at least, there's no selfishness. He saw that he was beyond extended support; and decided to go. Committing suicide takes a phenomenal amount of courage, and/or some mental instability. In this case, it seems to be mostly the former. Rest in Peace.
Am I the only one who didn't understand a fucking word of the above poster's meaningless rambling platitudes? You sound like Mother Theresa. "Why help people? Just tell them to suffer in agony because it's beautiful."
I hope when you're confronted with that situation you can look at your pain-stricken loved one and tell them "toughen up you fucking pussy".
Oh come on. The guy had lived his life, was facing pain... for what? He wasn't a teenager, he wasn't middle aged. Doesn't a person have the right to decide when they've had enough?
You want to know selfish is? Selfish is expecting a terminally ill aged person to endure suffering to slightly prolong an existence that they no longer feel is tolerable, all so that a complete fucking stranger on the internet doesn't have to deal with a moment facing the reality that ALL PEOPLE DIE, before said geek clicks on to the next story, about robot porn or some shit.
The guy lived his life, saw the end coming and chose not to suffer. The only sad part is that our sick society is in such denial about the inevitability of death that he was forced to choose such a gruesome method rather than having the option of something more peaceful.
The only sad part is that our sick society is in such denial about the inevitability of death that he was forced to choose such a gruesome method rather than having the option of something more peaceful.
Being a man of quite some means, so to speak, it's pretty naive to think he couldn't have just hopped a plane to say, Oregon, and offed himself there neatly and legally. He blew his head off with a shotgun because that's the way he wanted to go out, clearly.
What a coward! He should have faced his imminent slow and painful death like a man: by watching his dignity slowly fade away as he soils his bed and sobs uncontrollably about a life ill spent.
Wait, his life wasn't ill spent, so he realized that everything I just typed is bullshit. Society's attitude towards suicide is fucked up.
There's two (well, more than that, really) sides to the suicide coin.
1. You have men like this. Men who have seen that which they have wrought, and found a life well spent. Rather than wither away and die as you say, these people deserve an 'easy out.'
2. Then, you have the "oh woe is me" crowd, where suicide is the cowards way out - because it's easier to kill themself than deal with their problems - consequences to everyone else be damned. A selfish, cowardice-ridden exit.
3. Also, you have those who genuinly have something wrong with their mind that pushes them to it. You can't blame someone for something external pushing it down on you like that.
4. Finally, unless there are more I'm too tired to think of, you have those that go for a good cause. The good soldier diving on a grenade. Sacrificing one's self for the good of many, etc - the true altruistic finale.
I think the problem is that most people hear 'suicide' and think of group #2 above, to the exclusion of all else. If only the world was that defined into black in white.
"It is every American's Constitutional right to avoid paying taxes to the maximum extent permissible by law." -- Judge David R. Hansen, Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals
There's nothing wrong or immoral with reducing your tax bill. It's only wrong to do it in violation of the law. The IRS claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes illegally. He claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes legally. We decide who's right or wrong in the courts: we don't leap to judgment on Slashdot. (I know, I know, I must be new here. Check the UID, kids, I'm not.)
If the IRS is right, then yes, his actions were unjust. If he's right, then more power to him.
If you believe it's virtuous to pay more taxes than you absolutely have to, I'm sure the IRS wouldn't mind if you threw an extra couple of hundred on your check come April 15. Otherwise, let's give the dead the benefit of the doubt, and not declare him to have been taking advantage of us.
He used the Hunter S. Thompson method, large caliber to the head approach.
In the same situation I would have gone to a nice comfortable hospice facility in a nice liberal country where they would have kept me comfortable until it was all over. With an army of lawyers to keep family and business associates at bay. He did have the money for it after all.
In case anyone is considering it, firearms are *not* 100% guaranteed. High probability, yes. Guaranteed, no. You can maim yourself, cause blindness, brain damage, have to eat through straws etc. Due to the circumstances we may not know exactly how long it took him to die.
Another bit of advice, make sure you get your living will and medical power of attorney put together. I've been in a situation where we just *barely* got the medical power of attorney signed in time. Without it it would have been an even worse nightmare than it was.
It doesn't hurt. In fact, it'll probably be the best feeling of your whole life.
If it doesn't work, you're not screwed up, missing body parts, having to explain scars, or a drooling idiot. You're completely fine, and have a chance to try again.
And, most importantly, if it does work, your friends and relatives don't spend years asking themselves "could we have stopped it? Was it something we did?" and will instead say "geez, I sure miss that person, never would've thought s/he was a junkie." Which is a far, far nicer thing to do to all the people you care about than a messy suicide.
Terminally ill residents of Oregon and Washington have the option of ending their own life within the existing medical framework. There are strict requirements and a number of checks and balances, but my understanding is that patients who request this option (and receive the appropriate approvals) are usually prescribed a lethal dose of a barbiturate. The high dose causes sleep and ultimately death. IMHO, this is significantly more dignified than a gunshot.
He had lung cancer AND prostate cancer. Late-stage lung cancer is horrible. My grandfather made use of the Death with Dignity Act [wikipedia.org] in Oregon to request assisted suicide; we all supported his choice. It's hard not to when you see an intelligent, once-active man become delirious from pain, and bedridden due to having to be hooked up to machines that keep him from drowning to death (fluids in the lungs).
I'm one of the Oregon voters who voted twice for Death with Dignity, and am very glad that my grandfather was able to die at his own choosing, in a humane manner. (I don't think having to grab a shotgun and shoot yourself in the head, plus knowing others will find you and have to witness the scene, is humane - I say it not against Egan, but because I wish Egan had had a better choice.)
The parasitic life form screamed. It yanked at the pain centers and ticked at the pleasure center.
WHY DON'T YOU MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS, DARLING?
The right brain felt the rumblings decided to make it about politics for the potential reward. The left brain agreed and began to spin together a narrative. It wasn't cohesive but it's enough for an impulse.
The human considered for a moment. "Oh, wow, a guy killed himself in the UK because he had terminal cancer. What a
"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
"Suicide" makes it sound like he was depressed. Sounds like this guy wasn't. He decided to go out on his own terms. He chose euthanasia. If only we all had such bravery when facing such a long debilitating decline.
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people fear death - a lot.
He, instead of scrabbling away and clinging to anything he could (and just making it longer) like many of us would, stood tall, squared his shoulders, and walked into it's maw.
That, is bravery.
Death, is the one final unknown. Our species seems to be wired into fearing the unknown. Death, being one of the absolute unknowns, is also one of the absolute fears. The man was not afraid of this absolute.
That, is bravery.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
It could have also been desperation.
I don't fault the guy. I mean, if terminal lung cancer is as bad as it sounds, I might have pulled the trigger on my own terms too. Who in the hell want's to die an agonizing death when a bullet to the head seems like the cure in comparison?
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Assuming the terminal cancer was the reason for his suicide, which is a supposition to begin with. The fact that he was caught up in a tax haven and the IRS was on his back ... well, one could imagine it can be a little more nuan
Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.
Personally, I'd rather not be the kind of jerk that leaves a huge mess for someone else to clean up when it's time to fold up my affairs, but YMMV.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
As an active skydiver, I'm asking you nicely to pick another one of those choices. It's no fun for anyone standing around the DZ on a nice sunny day when selfish fuck decides to use our sport as his means to kill himself. It's no fun having to watch the paramedics try to save their life when you can see in their eyes they're dead. It's no fun to see the faces of the children who just came to see mummy get strapped to some man and go tandem when they realise that shit on their shoes used to be a living person.
So do us all a favour, and fuck off.
I'll leave the other ideas to the active climbers, motorcyclists and others who you'd like to make shit for.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
If you do decide to end it all, I hope you would have the courtesy of doing so in a manner that doesn't harm your bystanders. Every now and again, I get news about some jackass who decided he wanted to kill himself, and then went out onto the highway to slam his car into another vehicle or walk out in front of traffic or a train. I remember once witnessing the moments after a suicide on an opposing Metra Rail track. We had to sit there for 40 minutes as people came to spray the area. The passengers on the other train had to have been sitting there even longer. All I could think was, that guy was a real dick.
I'm not normally judgmental about suicide. But one shouldn't traumatize people or potentially injure or even kill bystanders in the process. That's just selfish.
When I finally do the deed myself, I wish to be in my nice comfy chair with a favorite drink, a favorite song playing, and maybe my TV playing some video that means a lot to me. I don't have time for displays of machismo, and I'm not rude enough to leave a bloody mess for someone to clean up after.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks from your local public servant!
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
That, or he fears pain more than death. Most people fear pain, a lot.
He, instead of fighting the pain and clinging as long as he could (and affording himself the possibility of a medical breakthrough or a medical miracle), like many of us would, simply gave up and took his ball home.
From a certain perspective, that is cowardice.
Death is a complete unknown. Rather than face the pain he knows, clinging to another few years, days, hours with loved ones, he instead walked headfirst into what could very well be worse pain and debilitation (think any religion's hell), yet clearly in a desire to avoid the pain and debilitation that he knew.
From a certain perspective, that is stupidity.
I don't think we can really judge one way or the other, though. At a certain point, it's a choice between being a burden to your family as you slowly drift into a coma and then death, or cutting off all medical treatment (and thus bills).
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Informative)
My father in law is currently dying from terminal cancer and I reckon anybody who has seen it happen would look for a fast way out. What I am seeing now is almost indescribably horrible. I don't blame this guy one bit.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
My grandfather died (ostensibly) from Parkinson's. My other grandfather died (also, ostensibly) from a stroke. I say "ostensibly" because neither of these things were capable of killing the men by themselves.
In the first case, the man's wits were always totally about him, but his communication and motor skills dropped to such a useless extent that he plainly felt he was a burden. He was very intelligent, and a quiet thinker: Someone you listened to when they talked, no matter how lengthy or succinct the conversation. My family kept him alive for years too long -- he was only going to get worse, not better.
In the latter case, the man's wits weren't always about him, but he was plainly aware that he was on his last legs and wouldn't be long in this world. He was an intelligent, outgoing, and very lucky reactionist who thrived on stress: Someone you listened to very intently, even if you thought they were wrong, because their thoughts were still very useful to absorb. My family kept him alive for years too long, as well -- he had more than one stroke in the nursing home, and had a long history of cardiac problems before then.
Both were accomplished (in terms of family reverence and fiscal good fortune). They lived good, honest lives, had their shit together, and were completely loved by those around them.
But, they lived too long. They were all used up.
Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment.
I hope your Grandpa-in-law does well with whatever comes.
(And for a disclaimer: No, death and suicide aren't always fair, and aren't always the fair means to an end. My own sister, whom I was also very close to, killed herself while she was still young and in rather good physical health about three years ago. Something about a hose, some duct tape, a 1996 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, a secluded garage, a bunch of cocaine, a lot of unhelpful friends, and an undiagnosed case of schizophrenia combined to make this happen. I wish I could've done more for her, and will probably regret that I hadn't for the rest of my own life.)
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
"Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment."
Great post, you summed that up well.
Whatever you do don't blame yourself for someone else's suicide.
I have been haunted by the suicide of my closest friend for 25 years. Same method too. It is always easy to see the signs after the fact, but virtually impossible in some cases beforehand.
Another of my closest friends died of breast cancer (Metastisised) at 32 a few years ago. When she knew the end was near she went out and partied real hard, and died 2 days later. At least she went out how she lived with great spirit-and the best illegal drugs!
If she had stayed in Hospital she could have probably lived for another month at most, and we her friends would have had to watch her die slowly and painfully. Her bravery in not allowing her friends to suffer with her for a month was incredibly moving.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
Rather than face the pain he knows, clinging to another few years, days, hours with loved ones, he instead walked headfirst into what could very well be worse pain and debilitation (think any religion's hell), yet clearly in a desire to avoid the pain and debilitation that he knew.
That's clear to you? I'm amazed at your total knowledge of the subject. Let me add a few additional considerations (of which you are obviously aware) for the rest of the readers without your gift.
My aunt died of breast cancer about ten years ago - I was in middle school at the time, and understandably ignorant of most aspects of the real world. She had been diagnosed maybe 7 or 8 years before that. The woman was incredible - driven, successful, brilliant, beautiful, and one of the most caring and compassionate people I've ever known.
Her family was wealthy, and with her own success and that of my uncle (got out of a high level position in AT&T at exactly the right time), she had the means to fight the disease better than most... and fight she did. She consulted with doctors all over the world, tried the most advanced treatments available, stuck strictly to regimens that many people give up on because of the pain, and never complained, cried, or once gave us reason to pity her beyond our knowledge of her disease (at least, not that I, my parents, or my grandparents ever witnessed... my uncle no doubt has a much different perspective on this).
She was incredibly strong - until the bitter end, she struggled to hide the horrors of the disease from everyone. Until the very end of her struggle, I was mostly unaware of any ill effects - she wore stylish hats to hide her hair loss, covered her pale complexion with make up, wore heavier clothes add bulk to her wasting body... everything possible just to make us happy and comfortable around her, despite the dizziness, nausea, pain, fear, despair, and everything else she was hiding behind her smile. She had a young daughter that she didn't want to traumatize, and friends and family who loved her dearly. She felt she had to present an optimistic, healthy, happy appearance to us so we wouldn't mourn her while she still fought her battle.
Why did she fight? I have no idea. Maybe she was afraid of death (somehow I doubt this was high on my aunt's list of priorities). Maybe she genuinely thought she might live to help raise her daughter (she was about 13 when she died - my aunt succeeded in seeing her grow to be a smart, beautiful young woman). Maybe there were financial (i.e. insurance, inheritance, whatever) reasons. Maybe she felt suicide would be too traumatic for us to deal with. Maybe she was afraid of whatever afterlife may await those who commit suicide (she was a good Catholic). Maybe she didn't want to let random luck and an evil disease decide her fate for her without at least fighting with all she had. Maybe it was all of these, or something else, or nothing at all. The point is, she chose to fight, and we supported her in that decision... to the degree she allowed anyone to support her, of course.
I still look up to her to this day... her dignity and strength in dealing with the disease, and the beauty of the life she led. I think she made her decision mostly out of love for her family, and I will never criticize her decision to cling to life, not just because I don't know all the factors that went into the decision process, but because I'm not qualified to judge those factors or the weights she assigned to them. I will add a few observations, however.
Having seen her deterioration in the last year of her life, and the impact it had on my family, I can say that her slow, agonizing death certainly WAS a traumatic experience for us, despite her heroic efforts to hide it. My uncle was a broken man (he's not nearly so strong as my aunt was) for the last few years, and the pain has never subsided (though he's gotten better at hiding it). The effect on the family might have been different had she chosen a different path, but
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
So every terminal cancer patient who doesn't commit suicide isn't brave? By trying to survive they're "scrabbling away and clinging to anything they could?" Sounds like you're saying all the terminally ill who don't commit suicide are pathetic cowards. What about the ones who endure all the pain (physical and psychological) and some how beat the odds (it's happened many a times)?
People who commit suicide all have their own reasons. I think the important thing is to not judge them, regardless of what their circumstances happen to be, as we'll never know what they were going through and the reasoning behind their decision. It's their life. They should have the right to end it if they want. It's really no one else's business.
But let's not try so hard to glorify someone' death that we start denigrating those with the will to live on. This guy obviously lead a very full life filled with many great & admirable accomplishments. Let's just leave it at that. His suicide was just the final period at the end of a fascinating life story. Our attention should be on everything that came before it.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Informative)
You might want to review your logic textbook from college. From "p -> q", it does not follow that "~p -> ~q".
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
This really is a western attitude. Take a look at Japan, where suicide is considered an honourable death, even preferred over being a living failure. Buddhist cultures like Thailand or Cambodia, the reincarnation religions combined with life being cheap, easy for them to justify what we westerns consider absolutely stupid behaviour (Driving is the first thing that comes to mind) with "it OK, I come back, next life". Of course they don't want to die, but there isn't the absolute fear of it that we have in the western world.
The church is the biggest reason we have laws against suicide. Taking your own life is the only real power we have, to live or to die and the bible says that only God has the right to decide who lives and who dies thus suicide is a sin. We are trained to despise death from day one, we've built legal systems around this making it "wrong" to take your own life and even worse to spare someone pain by assisting suicide (Euthanasia). So by this logic, suicide is not considered bravery, on the contrary it is selfishness and I suppose that it is to an extent but it is the one bit of selfishness we should be entitled to.
I applaud this person for choosing when he was to die. I too would rather end it quickly then become an inconvenience on others with a terminal illness, plus I'd get to organise a really big party before I go (a bit morbid yes, but so is a funeral). Also look up Einstein's death [wikipedia.org] he too also chose to go with a bit of grace by refusing life exending surgery. quoting Einstein,
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because people left behind would never get screwed up seeing you die slowly and painfully, weezing (quite literally) your last in some hospital ward as you gradually lose control of your bodily functions. That would obviously be much less traumatic for them than putting your affairs in order, saying goodbye with dignity and making a (relatively) clean exit.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
You shouldn't have posted A/C. You're very much right.
I saw my dad dying. It wasn't pretty. My last memories of him are in the hospital bed, which I'm sure wasn't the way he wanted to be seen going out. He was military also, but he wouldn't have chosen the gun to the head route. He fought to the end, in disbelief that he could be dying. Unfortunately, there was a burial, and now a gravestone to prove it. His mantra was "it's indigestion", when in reality it was heart attacks, which took their toll. He was smart, and he knew the truth, but sometimes we'll ignore the simple truth when it's bad enough.
If he could have taken his last day on his terms (but not quite so messy), he may have taken that route. But I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have, simply because he refused to believe it. At very least, he could have saved himself the last day of suffering.
My step son was almost luckier. He died quickly in the comfort of our home by natural causes (a seizure). He had already told us, he had no recollection of anything that happened during his seizures, so he was completely unaware of what happened. His mother and I were the first to find him, and despite the obvious truth, I performed CPR until the paramedics arrived. He was already rigor, but I refused to believe it. I did tell the 911 operator "he's rigor-like". Not rigor mortis. I refused to believe the truth, even though I knew better. The paramedics were kind when they showed up, but there was nothing for them to do but talk us through it.
Damn. I was having a good night. Now I'm stuck with the memories of what happened again. They never do go away, but sometimes they can be sidetracked with better memories of the people we loved.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
While I think Bill Maher is a misogynist dickhead, he does have one great quote on suicide.
It's our way of telling God "You can't fire me. I quit!"
The sad thing is this guy should NOT have had to go in a closet and blow his head off. Never ceases to amaze me how we euthanize animals on compassionate grounds, and yet we humans, we're expected to suffer.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
we're 'expected to suffer' because relgion *still* dominates our legal system.
remove religion and there's zero issue with people killing themselves.
it really is that simple.
and yet its not. because people won't let go of explanations that let them sleep easy at night.
even ones we know are not really true.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
From Schopenhauer's "On Suicide":(Hollingdale's translation)
"Christianity carries in its innermost heart the truth that suffering(the Cross) is the true aim of life: that is why it repudiates suicide, which is opposed to this aim, while antiquity from a lower viewpoint approved of and indeed honoured it. This argument against suicide is however an ascetic one, and is therefore valid only from a far higher ethical standpoint than any which European moral philosophers have ever assumed. If we descend from this very high standpoint there no longer remains any tenable moral reason for damning suicide. It therefore seems that the extraordinary zeal in opposing it displayed by the clergy of monotheistic religions - a zeal which is not supported by the Bible or by any cogent reasons - must have some hidden reason behind it: may this not be that the voluntary surrender of life is an ill compliment to him who said that all things were very good? If so, it is another instance of the obligatory optimism of these religions, which denounces self-destruction so as not to be denounced by it."
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
Doesn't surprise me. Until very recently, only the wealthy could afford the food/rest/care to even survive any serious illness. The problem of what to do with old people when the medical care is too good is a recent problem and our society hasn't cast its collective conscience's vote yet on what attitude to adopt toward human euthanasia. Eventually we'll reach a mature, stable decision one way or the other.. but you can't rush it.
Also there are a lot of thorny ethical issues. For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm." Doctors can't even prescribe lethal injections when a court orders execution; prisons have to get those drugs 'semi-legally' without going through a real doctor. Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society. And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally...
Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Informative)
For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm."
First off, the Hippocratic Oath does not say "do no harm". It does say that doctors should not do assisted suicides, perform abortions, or perform surgery. Luckily, doctors don't take it any more and haven't in my lifetime. I'm not sure why people think they do. Some take substitute oaths, like the Declaration of Geneva;* others take no oath.
immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous
"Immediately"? That's a topic that's been up for debate throughout all of recorded history. Which is why the Hippocratic Oath mentions it. Generally, it's been shot down by religious leaders in western cultures because suicide is a sin. It'd be awful nice if we could get past the argument that an invisible fairy will get mad at you and address it as two questions: Does a person own his or her own life, and if so, under what criteria is suicide appropriate? For example, I could see not allowing someone suicide due to schizophrenia because it interferes with rational decision-making. I could also see it a no-no for the parent of a minor child, under the assumption that his or her duty to the child supercedes any rights to opt outta life. But just screaming that it's wrong isn't gonna last in today's secular political climate.
* Which also does not say "do no harm", but does say "I will maintain the utmost respect for human life". On the flip side, the doctor also promises to never violate human rights - some would argue that the right to die at a place and time of one's own choosing is a human right.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Interesting)
Speaking from a country that has had legal euthanasia for quite some years already:
"For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm.""
Inappropriately lengthening peoples lives and pain in the case of a severe illness can be construed to be doing harm. Doctors are used to keeping people alive and using this as a metric for their effectiveness. Maybe there should be a bigger focus on quality of life and less on plainly being alive.
Also, keeping someone alive because of your own personal (religious) beliefs is morally objectionable if the patient does not share these beliefs.
I'll leave to the readers imagination what I think of the moral implications of the problems in applying the death penalty as you describe it.
"Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society."
First, get a decent healthcare system to spread the costs. It seems every discussion on slashdot heads in the direction of the US healthcare system lately, maybe there's change in the air.
Secondly, financial considerations are also weighed by medical staff in the decision to use a certain treatment to keep someone alive or not. This is one of the most serious dilemma's we'll face in the decades coming: how much is a life worth or how much is another year of living worth. This stems directly from the invention of new and costly medical treatments and this issue will be important, regardless of legalizing euthanasia or not.
"And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally..."
I see no paradox here except in your mind: why is petitioning for euthanasia irrational?
"Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous."
I don't think anyone is suggesting this. Do you? I think most people in favor of legalizing euthanasia have a very sound idea of what checks and balances should be in place to prevent misuse. I know there are many safeguards in place in the dutch system for legal euthanasia and I think the practice is widely supported and considered far superior to blasting ones brains out in desperation.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Interesting)
With respect to whether forcing someone to live in pain and without dignity is a violation of the Hippocratic Oath -- yes, it is. This is why so many doctors nowadays are taking continuing education classes in chronic pain management and death with dignity.
Under current ethical guidelines, a doctor is allowed to prescribe any amount of narcotic necessary to manage the pain of a terminal patient, even if that dose of narcotic will hasten the patient's death. (The law has not caught up with medical ethics, but it's in the process of doing so.)
If the only way to manage the pain of your terminal illness is to give you a dose that will hasten your death, the AMA says that if you ask for it I am allowed to ethically give it to you. The AMA also says that I should tell you that very powerful drugs are available to manage your pain, and to encourage you not to live in pain. I can't force you to take the Fentanyl patch, but I can make sure you know you have that option available to you and that no one will think less of you for it.
Pain management, dignity, hospice care, etc. -- these are all ways medicine in the US is trying to balance the Hippocratic Oath against the indignities of terminal care.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
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Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a curious pattern in the suicide rates. The rates among ethnic groups who built the most prosperous, high-quality societies (i. e., Western societies) are the highest in the world. The rate in Japan and Europe is much higher than the rate in, say, Nigeria. Most African nations do have shockingly high death rates, but that is due to murder. Suicide is quite uncommon in Africa.
What Richard Egan did is very Japanese. He concluded that his life would be a burden on his family, his friends, and himself. So, he chose to die by his own sword. He died with honor.
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Re:Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:4, Informative)
I'm pretty sure you're implying China or India, and you have check your facts. Their economies may be large and successful, and some part of the population may be well off even by western standards. However the majority of people, both in China and India live in abject poverty, and their economies are creating ecological disasters of enormous proportions.
Check out this list, http://geography.about.com/cs/worldpopulation/a/mostpopulous.htm [about.com] where the countries are listed by population size. Except for the western countries, every single other one has at least one major issue, besides poverty for a majority of the people, that precludes it from being a success. For instance Brazil is destroying the rain forest, Pakistan is anything but politically stable and large portions are controlled by the Taleban, Nigeria is destroying the Niger delta for oil, and so on.
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Re:Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Suicide Rate in Japan (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know, but I suspect he doesn't need a Wii, he needs you.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, please read the article. He was suffering from Stage 4 lung cancer, diabetes and high BP. I'm no doctor, but that looks fairly terminal to me. Why the fuck should I hang around as a vegetable?
Suicide is devastating to those who care, yes; but in this case at least, there's no selfishness. He saw that he was beyond extended support; and decided to go. Committing suicide takes a phenomenal amount of courage, and/or some mental instability. In this case, it seems to be mostly the former. Rest in Peace.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Funny)
Am I the only one who didn't understand a fucking word of the above poster's meaningless rambling platitudes? You sound like Mother Theresa. "Why help people? Just tell them to suffer in agony because it's beautiful."
I hope when you're confronted with that situation you can look at your pain-stricken loved one and tell them "toughen up you fucking pussy".
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh come on. The guy had lived his life, was facing pain... for what? He wasn't a teenager, he wasn't middle aged. Doesn't a person have the right to decide when they've had enough?
You want to know selfish is? Selfish is expecting a terminally ill aged person to endure suffering to slightly prolong an existence that they no longer feel is tolerable, all so that a complete fucking stranger on the internet doesn't have to deal with a moment facing the reality that ALL PEOPLE DIE, before said geek clicks on to the next story, about robot porn or some shit.
The guy lived his life, saw the end coming and chose not to suffer. The only sad part is that our sick society is in such denial about the inevitability of death that he was forced to choose such a gruesome method rather than having the option of something more peaceful.
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Re:"Committed Suicide?" (Score:4, Insightful)
The only sad part is that our sick society is in such denial about the inevitability of death that he was forced to choose such a gruesome method rather than having the option of something more peaceful.
Being a man of quite some means, so to speak, it's pretty naive to think he couldn't have just hopped a plane to say, Oregon, and offed himself there neatly and legally. He blew his head off with a shotgun because that's the way he wanted to go out, clearly.
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The EASY way out! (Score:5, Insightful)
What a coward! He should have faced his imminent slow and painful death like a man: by watching his dignity slowly fade away as he soils his bed and sobs uncontrollably about a life ill spent.
Wait, his life wasn't ill spent, so he realized that everything I just typed is bullshit. Society's attitude towards suicide is fucked up.
Rest in peace.
Re:The EASY way out! (Score:4, Insightful)
There's two (well, more than that, really) sides to the suicide coin.
1. You have men like this. Men who have seen that which they have wrought, and found a life well spent. Rather than wither away and die as you say, these people deserve an 'easy out.'
2. Then, you have the "oh woe is me" crowd, where suicide is the cowards way out - because it's easier to kill themself than deal with their problems - consequences to everyone else be damned. A selfish, cowardice-ridden exit.
3. Also, you have those who genuinly have something wrong with their mind that pushes them to it. You can't blame someone for something external pushing it down on you like that.
4. Finally, unless there are more I'm too tired to think of, you have those that go for a good cause. The good soldier diving on a grenade. Sacrificing one's self for the good of many, etc - the true altruistic finale.
I think the problem is that most people hear 'suicide' and think of group #2 above, to the exclusion of all else. If only the world was that defined into black in white.
Parent
Re:The EASY way out! (Score:5, Insightful)
"It is every American's Constitutional right to avoid paying taxes to the maximum extent permissible by law." -- Judge David R. Hansen, Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals
There's nothing wrong or immoral with reducing your tax bill. It's only wrong to do it in violation of the law. The IRS claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes illegally. He claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes legally. We decide who's right or wrong in the courts: we don't leap to judgment on Slashdot. (I know, I know, I must be new here. Check the UID, kids, I'm not.)
If the IRS is right, then yes, his actions were unjust. If he's right, then more power to him.
If you believe it's virtuous to pay more taxes than you absolutely have to, I'm sure the IRS wouldn't mind if you threw an extra couple of hundred on your check come April 15. Otherwise, let's give the dead the benefit of the doubt, and not declare him to have been taking advantage of us.
Parent
OK, I'm a sicko, I admit it (Score:4, Funny)
Solaris budget concerns?
You have options!
Advert on the El Reg page announcing "EMC co-founder kills himself".
Never forget. (Score:3, Funny)
May his memory live on forever in our... network attached storage devices.
Re:Never forget. (Score:4, Funny)
And just like that, his life was gone into flash.
Parent
He got on the bus (Score:4, Interesting)
He used the Hunter S. Thompson method, large caliber to the head approach.
In the same situation I would have gone to a nice comfortable hospice facility in a nice liberal country where they would have kept me comfortable until it was all over. With an army of lawyers to keep family and business associates at bay. He did have the money for it after all.
In case anyone is considering it, firearms are *not* 100% guaranteed. High probability, yes. Guaranteed, no. You can maim yourself, cause blindness, brain damage, have to eat through straws etc. Due to the circumstances we may not know exactly how long it took him to die.
Another bit of advice, make sure you get your living will and medical power of attorney put together. I've been in a situation where we just *barely* got the medical power of attorney signed in time. Without it it would have been an even worse nightmare than it was.
Re:He got on the bus (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't hurt. In fact, it'll probably be the best feeling of your whole life.
If it doesn't work, you're not screwed up, missing body parts, having to explain scars, or a drooling idiot. You're completely fine, and have a chance to try again.
And, most importantly, if it does work, your friends and relatives don't spend years asking themselves "could we have stopped it? Was it something we did?" and will instead say "geez, I sure miss that person, never would've thought s/he was a junkie." Which is a far, far nicer thing to do to all the people you care about than a messy suicide.
Parent
Another Reason to Support Assisted Suicide (Score:4, Informative)
My grandfather took that very option (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm one of the Oregon voters who voted twice for Death with Dignity, and am very glad that my grandfather was able to die at his own choosing, in a humane manner. (I don't think having to grab a shotgun and shoot yourself in the head, plus knowing others will find you and have to witness the scene, is humane - I say it not against Egan, but because I wish Egan had had a better choice.)
Parent
EMC (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS! MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS!
The parasitic life form screamed. It yanked at the pain centers and ticked at the pleasure center.
WHY DON'T YOU MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS, DARLING?
The right brain felt the rumblings decided to make it about politics for the potential reward. The left brain agreed and began to spin together a narrative. It wasn't cohesive but it's enough for an impulse.
The human considered for a moment. "Oh, wow, a guy killed himself in the UK because he had terminal cancer. What a