Opera 10.0 Released 325
neonsignal writes "Opera 10 has been released. It now supports rich text email, the 'turbo' Opera proxy server feature, some HTML 5 support, XML 'pretty printing,' extra skinning features, and a 100/100 score in the Acid3 test. There has been no official announcement as yet."
no announcement? (Score:3, Informative)
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They also made a cool launch trailer [youtube.com]. Now how cool is that Opera Mini Cooper ;) It's quick but I guess the guys had lots of fun making it.
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Opera 10 browser is here [cnet.com]
Re:no announcement? (Score:5, Informative)
Press release [opera.com]
Maybe it wasn't online at the time of submission, but now it is.
Announced on Twitter (Score:2, Informative)
Opera 10 final was announced on twitter over 6 hours ago. http://twitter.com/opera [twitter.com]
Re:Announced on Twitter (Score:5, Funny)
Oh my ${deity}, six hours !!! That's like AGES ago !
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Oh my ${deity}, six hours !!! That's like AGES ago !
LOL. If that throws you, how about a somewhat related message from the FUTURE:
The story submission just disappeared from the Firehose before I could link to it there, so this a message from the PAST FUTURE. Or something like that.
It's not a score! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's not a score! (Score:5, Informative)
No, it *is* the number of tests successfully passed. A 100/100 however does *not* indicate a pass, browsers need to pass all the tests at over 30fps to pass the whole test.
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Thanks.
Do the issues printing still exist? (Score:2)
I use Opera all the time, but it has issues printing a lot of stuff. Of course it always had is issues rendering many pages too. The UI is the reason I use it though. It is far and away better than the rest.
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best browser out there (Score:4, Insightful)
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I will say that Opera Mobile is the best thing to hit the Windows Mobile platform in some time.
Re:best browser out there (Score:4, Insightful)
"Best" is largely subjective, but Opera has some pretty clear disadvantages.
IE has the advantage of being bundled with most desktop and laptop computers.
Safari has the advantage of being bundled with Apple hardware.
Firefox is included with many Linux distros, and is libre, which is a big deal with a certain segment of the market (which, while not a large segment, is a big part of the group that care enough to use anything other than the platform default browser in the first place.)
Opera is neither bundled with anything popular, nor libre.
email? (Score:2, Insightful)
Why does a WEB BROWSER need to support rich text email?
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Because Opera is a WEB BROWSER as well as a MAIL CLIENT. Like Mozilla.
Re:email? (Score:5, Informative)
opera has a brilliant built in email client and rss reader.
they went for the approach of filter/search rather than sort long before gmail made it popular
I hit f4 to show my email & rss on the right of the screen. You can see an old version here:
http://www.freeemailtutorials.com/operaM2/operaMailInterface.cwd [freeemailtutorials.com]
rss is treated much like a seperate mail account
I love it.
Re:email? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does a WEB BROWSER need to support rich text email?
Because Opera is NOT a web browser but an Internet suite: it manages web, email, newsgroup, rss feeds, bittorrent and IRC. There's also a preview version that includes a web server (Opera Unite). And with all this it's still smaller (on disk and in memory) than Firefox alone.
It still fails at my simple CSS test. (Score:5, Interesting)
My example: http://echo.nextapp.com/content/test/operacss/ [nextapp.com]
The consequences get a bit more catastrophic with applications with larger quantities of nested DIVs. Things really start to break when you start measuring using Element.offsetHeight.
Apologies for posting it here...again...but I'm tired of replying to users who ask "why does component X not render properly in Opera, it passes Acid3 thus something must be wrong with the component."
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I'd love to use Opera more, but every version (including 10) seems to suffer from rendering issues that are often readily apparent on major websites that don't seem to affect any other browser. I don't know whether its the browser or the website, but either way they dissuade me from continued use of Opera. Checkout the weekend view http://www.weather.com/weather/weekend/USIL0225?from=36hr_topnav_undeclared [weather.com] for example.
Re:It still fails at my simple CSS test. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's because the other browsers aren't victims of browser sniffing the way Opera is. Most of the time you can simply mask as Firefox, and it "magically" starts working.
Re: magically work? (Score:2)
My little unpublicized page distorts on Opera too but few of the other browsers.
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Opera's focus on following standards often comes back to bite it in the ass.
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Buggy for me (Score:2)
Works fine in Safari 4.0.3 on Mac OS X 10.5.8: the rectangular "watermelon" smoothly resizes both horizontally and vertically whether I make the window smaller or larger.
But I do see the bug in Opera 10.00. If I shrink the window vertically (and only vertically) then the watermelon shrinks in jumps or falls behind and brings up a vertical scrollbar. If I enlarge the window vertically, then the watermelon stays at whatever size it was before. Even a pixel of resizing horizontally forces a refresh to the p
Re:It still fails at my simple CSS test. (Score:5, Insightful)
I was under the impression, that "offsetHeight" was nonstandard and not recommended to be used anyway...
Correct, but please note... (Score:4, Insightful)
Correct, you're not 'supposed' to use offsetHeight. Oddly enough Mozilla and whatnot thought that was actually a reasonable idea out of MS and implemented it as well, so I guess there's room for -a- function/property like it.
But please note that the linked demo page does not use offsetHeight or any scripting at all. It's pure CSS.
( I'm just guessing a lot of users are not going to read the original post or even check the demo page and simply read "My page doesn't work" and "offsetHeight is nonstandard anyway" and will dismiss the demo page. )
There might be other ways to achieve the same as that page, I'm not a CSS guru (I've got my own problematic page to which I've not seen any answer that didn't involve using javascript; ended up working around it on the server end where I know the size of the content (image). CSS layouts are very, very poor for any actual layout work, even if it's nice for 'fluid' layouts that will work on anything from giant screens to black and white text-only devices) /nokarma
Re:It still fails at my simple CSS test. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seeing as I still have all these at my disposal (see some older thread on browsers..)
IE8: fine
FF3.5.2: fine
Safari 4.0.3: fine; although I can't resize vertically completely. The extent of the lime-colored rectangle is always a minimum size to encompass the red rectangle. Can't check horizontally because the window won't resize small enough there :)
Chrome 2.0.172.43: fine
cat: fine too (*groan*)
Opera 9.64: yup, broken.. slow to redraw, the vertical scrollbar pops into and out of existance, the boxes end up overflowing or not being sized right, etc.
Opera 10.00: also broken.. if I very slowly drag the bottom edge of the window up, the resizing happens in 'pops'. basically any time the top edge of the bottom (status) bar is hitting the bottom edge of the lime-colored rectangle, a resize occurs (vertical scrollbar pops into view, resize occurs, vertical scrollbar pops out of view). If, instead, I do it a little faster.. it just doesn't respond in time at all and I can no longer see the bottom are of the lime rectangle, the vertical scrollbar stays in place, etc. In either case, expanding the window vertically from the window's bottom edge does -not- expand the rectangles again.
Note that this behavior -is- different from 9. 9 -would- smoothly resize as the bottom edge of the window is being dragged... it's just that it resizes incorrectly
Platform: Windows Vista
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Which is why plenty of position/relative/absolute/div tests would be more useful than Acid3 imo, at least for me.
all browsers have quirks like this (Score:2)
while i agree this sucks on opera's part, you can make a similar observation of a rendering problem of similar implications and proportions in trident, mozilla, and webkit
they all have fixes they need to make. opera is no worse or no better
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Works fine for me (at least as well as FF). FF is a bit smoother at adjusting the boxes than Opera, but I wouldn't have noticed otherwise.
Great (Score:2, Funny)
Couple of questions (Score:2)
1. Is it possible to configure Opera so that tabs behave like in FireFox? The default behavior of Opera after closing a tab to always switch to previously open tab. That totally messes up my workflow when I work with sites like Bugzilla.
2. Is it possible to tell Opera when restoring tabs during start-up to fetch them from net, not from cache? FireFox 3.5 does the same and it is also impossible to turn off. That gave me couple of time already the shock - WTF!? AGAIN???? IMPOSSIBLE!?!?!? - caused mainly b
Re:Couple of questions (Score:5, Informative)
1) You can change that behaviour in preferences.
Preferences -> Advanced -> Tabs
When closing a tab
- Activate the last active tab
- Activate the next tab
- Activate first tab opened from current tab
Personally I really prefer to go back to last active tab - it speeds up things a lot, atleast for me.
2) You could try emptying cache on exit always
Preferences -> Advanced -> History -> Empty on exit
On same page is always Check if document is updated on server, where I have "Always" and I think they do update when I start Opera.
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Thanks a bunch!
To the #1: it works! Finally!!
To the #2: Opera 10 - unlike 9.x - always check for the updated page!
I'd definitely give 10th a more serious test in the office. I need some robust tool - which can complement recently developed WebUIs for few internal applications.
P.S. Now I even managed to make ^Tab to not to display the fancy list of tabs, but switch to next tab immediately. Slowly, Opera makes progress in my eyes.
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Opera 10 trailer (Score:4, Informative)
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I thought that video was a trailer for IE. Some guy singing about how he is never gonna give it up, never gonna let it down. I just had to assume.
[Didn't watch the video. Had to assume there, too...]
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I hope the new version includes the revolutionary face gestures [youtube.com] feature...
CJ
.debs? (Score:2)
Opera *can* block ads, no plugin necessary. (Score:2, Informative)
Opera has had the ability to block ads and other content for as long as I can remember, long before Firefox itself even existed. All that is required is for one to install a simple .ini file [fanboy.co.nz] into Opera's user profile directory. The file must be updated manually, but it is simple enough to write a script to automatically download the new file every so often. It may not be as powerful or user-friendly as AdBlock Plus, but it works, and works well.
Still great after all these years (Score:3, Insightful)
I have been using Opera since Opera version 4 ish - still prefer it above all others and have tried all the rest, but it is still faster, better layout, and more customizable to my taste than any other option. It also wins completely on GUI speed, and on keyboard navigation.
Just started with 10 now, and Opera still has it.
When I do web development, and want "inspect this" element and a browse-able dom tree - I use Firefox. To do layout checking and rendering checking, we fire up both Safari and IE. But for day to day, with 20-50 tabs open, browsing around... Opera is the one that works best.
ALREADY one new feature I LOVE: inline spell checking while I write! (This was one thing I wanted but it took a while for Opera to catch up to FF, and had to add a JavaScript user-side spell checker.)
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How's the new version of DragonFly going? Can you compare it to Firebug at all?
Epic Fail! (Score:2, Interesting)
Does it support the W3C standard for MVC (Score:4, Interesting)
Does it support the W3C standard for MVC markup [w3.org] yet, or is Opera still cherry-picking stanards that suit its business model more than those of its users?
Don't bother trying it (Score:5, Funny)
It is a joke of a browser. Just use the industry standard: Internet Explorer. It's fast and extremely secure.
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Re:rendering Slashdot (Score:4, Informative)
Re:rendering Slashdot (Score:5, Informative)
And besides that Opera is also the most slashdot oriented browser. Just type /. to address bar and off you go to slashdot.
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Haven't noticed any problems with slashdot yet, and except for the same every browser had I didn't have any with Opera 9 either. Also, slashdot is *a lot* faster now, probably because of the new javascript engine.
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What's the problem? It looks fine in 9.64. The teal bars ("rendering Slashdot (Score: 1)") don't have a curved border, since 9.64 doesn't do CSS border-radius, but that's the only thing different from Firefox (except Firefox misses the space between "Anonymous Coward" and "on").
Re:rendering Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
Can anything??
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I've never had problems with it rendering slashdot, even back through version 7 or so. Also, being able to just type "/." into the url bar to get here is a nice trick. Not really useful, but neat.
Re:rendering Slashdot (Score:4, Insightful)
Really... I'd like to know. Firefox, Opera, Safari, Chrome, and Internet Explorer all have issues.
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Re:That is impressive (Score:5, Interesting)
But does it run on Linux?
It was released for all Windows, Mac OS and Linux.
Opera has always been my favourite browser. It has pretty much everything packed in that you want and need, and still its really lightweight and smooth. Even firefox doesn't get close, a lot of times it feels quite non-smooth. Responsiveness from the GUI and things like scrolling does *a lot*. And its consistent on every platform, and always has been *the browser* to push new things on browsers. Mouse gestures, speed dial, advanced browsers on Wii/Mobile phones etc.
The old "Next" page [opera.com] also has been updated with little bit of information about 10.10, which will include Opera Unite. So its not included in this version yet.
Another interesting thing about Opera is that its marketshare on CIS countries [opera.com] is more than IE/FF/Other browsers. Are they just technically more aware or whats the cause for that?
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I don't like it much, but I use it on a daily basis, because it is so light on system resources. (Firefox tends to bring this near obsolete POS win2000 system I have to use at work to it's knees, and IE6 well... let's not go there.)
Re:That is impressive (Score:4, Funny)
Re:That is impressive (Score:4, Insightful)
And its consistent on every platform, and always has been *the browser* to push new things on browsers.
While Opera does have a lot of neat features, Google Gears support and the new fast Javascript engine haven't been released, these features do make web apps such as Gmai, Google Docs and Buxfer a lot better.
Another interesting thing about Opera is that its marketshare on CIS countries [opera.com] is more than IE/FF/Other browsers. Are they just technically more aware or whats the cause for that?
When Opera wasn't free, people could easily crack it, Opera was a lot faster on dialup connections (because it rendered pages immediately instead of waiting for them to load completely), it had caching that was actually useful and didn't need a lot of system resouces. So installing a "free" browser resulted in faster and cheaper internet. The latest Opera versions are installed because people remember how fast it was. It's still a great browser, and if other browsers aren't a lot better then why bother migrating?
Opera Mini seems to repeat the same success story, GPRS/EDGE internet is slow and pretty expensive in CIS (around $0.15-$0.20 per megabyte), and because Opera Mini compresses reduces the pages' size by 5-20 times, it's even used on devices with "real" browsers.
Re:That is impressive (Score:5, Informative)
Actually the only thing Opera still kind of needs is as good ad blocker as adblock. While it does have its feature for blocking content, it doesn't have lists and it doesn't always work as good. I know you could find lists for it and put them in the config files, but it's not as comfortable and still doesn't work as good.
Thats why I've always used Ad Muncher [admuncher.com] tho, it does the ad blocking perfectly (and not just in Opera, but all browsers). But Opera should really fine tune their ad blocking features. Otherwise there's no really features I can come up thats missing in Opera.
Re:That is impressive (Score:5, Informative)
Some ad servers are deliberately made incompatible with Firefox with Adblock installed, sometimes resulting in javascript alerts, sometimes the page never stops loading because it seems to be trying reloading the banner ad until it succeeds (or perhaps doing some tricky onload callback, I'm not sure). Opera's ad blocker is mostly immune to these tricks, and blocking lists can be easily downloaded from third-party sites. I think what Opera needs more is Flashblock, because pages that suddenly make sounds or start downloading HD videos without asking are disgusting.
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For flashblock, you can put a button to enable/disable plugins in your toolbar. Does not work as well as flashblock, but good enough.
http://operawiki.info/CustomButtons [operawiki.info]
For adblock, I still have not found a good way to update my blocking list while keeping my modifications.
Re:That is impressive (Score:5, Interesting)
So ... you want Opera to include in their main browser a feature that you know is an optional 3rd party plug-in in for Firefox?
Have you considered why Adblock might be a 3rd party plug-in? Apart from the "barebones" bit. Could it be because the first sign that Mozilla is actively including a list of ads to block, they will be sued into the ground in the US and other places for interfering with other people's income? And while they might win such a lawsuit, don't they have better ways to spend their money?
And if they were to lose such a lawsuit, Mozilla might get off somewhat easy, as they are a non-profit organization. Opera on the other hand isn't.
Now, is it possible to make a third party addition to Opera that shares adsites to block? Certainly. I'm willing to bet that it's also possible to use the same lists that Adblock uses. To make things easy to start with, it could use mvps' [mvps.org] list as a starter.
And, if you really want to be pedantic, there's always the option of using Google [google.com] to find what you're looking for. There seems to be quite few attempts at recreating Adblock:
Tamil's My.Opera blog [opera.com]
OperaWiki.info has some suggestions [operawiki.info]
Lex1's blog on My.Opera also has some ideas [opera.com]
There's even a Flashblock for Opera [opera.com]
Basically it boils down to the same complaints you hear about Linux from people who are used to Windows: "but I need $program, and I don't want to look for replacements".
Now, what is the best option for you? I have the faintest idea. I'm quite satisfied with the built in filtering as it is. If I go to a site that has some annoying banners, it rarely takes me more than 30 seconds to block them, and I can live with that.
Is it as effective as Adblock? No clue - I don't use Adblock or Firefox if I can avoid it. It lacks the basic things that I love in Opera. Funny how that works out - one man's must have item is another man's "meh".
And if you want to be really pedantic, the one thing that Firefox still kind of needs is a built in ad blocker that's as good as Adblock.
Re:That is impressive (Score:4, Insightful)
Could it be because the first sign that Mozilla is actively including a list of ads to block, they will be sued into the ground in the US and other places for interfering with other people's income? And while they might win such a lawsuit, don't they have better ways to spend their money?
And if they were to lose such a lawsuit, Mozilla might get off somewhat easy, as they are a non-profit organization. Opera on the other hand isn't.
Firstly, Opera Software is a Norwegian corporation. It would be Norwegian laws and court that would apply, not US ones. :)
Secondly, theres really no law against "interfering with other people's income". All the other ad blocker software would get sued then. Hell, virus writers and criminals could sue you and police because they're interfering with their income
And if you want to be really pedantic, the one thing that Firefox still kind of needs is a built in ad blocker that's as good as Adblock.
Opera's way however is different than Firefox. They like to build all the features natively in. And its great because I dont have to go hunt for every random addon that might be sub-standard; everything you need is build in (and hence doesn't take resources as much either) and is consistent in both quality and in usage.
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Could it be because the first sign that Mozilla is actively including a list of ads to block, they will be sued into the ground in the US and other places for interfering with other people's income?
Huh? This doesn't even make sense. Please provide any statutory or case law that even remotely would back one bringing such a frivolous lawsuit.
Re:That is impressive (Score:4, Insightful)
Hey it's my web browser. What I filter with it is my own business. For that matter, my choice of user-agent string is my business as well.
Stick to spamming IE users and illiterates. It's more profitable and less annoying to those who might threaten your existence.
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can you please list in your user-agent string the fact that you use ad blockers so I can redirect you to pages which are "just headlines", since you seem to have decided that you're incapable of filtering information for yourself?
So let me get this straight...
You want him to help you filter him out because you think he's a putz for using a tool to help him filter you out?
Is that not just a TAD hypocritical?
Re:That is impressive (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry to disappoint you, but V8, Carakan, etc. are for nothing but bragging rights these days. Someone did an analysis. About 10% at most of CPU cycles were taken up by JavaScript even on sites like Gmail. The real performance gains on real sites today are not JavaScript at all.
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I've noticed a significant performance boost after migrating from Firefox 3.0 to 3.5, Gmail is a lot faster. I forgot to mention, Foxmarks and Passpack encrypt stuff with Javascript, so that even when the data is stored on remote servers, only you can actually read it.
The older digg site was also slow because of Javascript performance issues. Scrolling was slow in all major browsers until all comments loaded.
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The best just got better....Great news! I've been a regular user of Opera for a good few years now, firstly on XP and more recently on Ubuntu, and it does everything I want (and a load of things I actually don't need as well) very impressively. Is there a downside to Opera? Well only the very occassional website that doesn't work properly, and that's always the website's fault. No problem...if they can't be bothered to code a decent website, I can't be bothered to view it.
I believe the reason the CIS
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Re:That is impressive (Score:5, Informative)
But does it run on Linux?
It runs on these OSs:
You can also see specialized versions for your distro of choice on their site [opera.com]
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"It" being some version of Opera.
To put the list into perspective a bit, lets take a look at the versions of Opera that run on some of these systems:
QNX: Opera 6.01b (which is a beta release). The last stable version for QNX is Opera 5.2.1.
OS/2: Opera 5.12.
BeOS: 3.62.
I somehow don't get to see any other releases. The server probably thinks I have one of the above systems (I have BeOS, but I still should be able to download Opera for any system I want to).
The BeOS version is unusable on the web today. It was
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Pretty impressive when you consider that it's closed source so the distributors have to code, package, test, debug and maintain all those versions themselves without, unless I'm mistaken, a lot of community effort (minus bug reporting and things of the like).
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I like Opera. It's the only browser that still supports my ancient G3 Mac.
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While Opera is indeed also quite fast in those benchmarks, I believe what OP was talking about is overall feel when using it, and how heavy treatment it can stand gracefully. It's far beyond any other browser in that regard (and yeah, I like that aspect of it a lot).
Re:Snappiest beast out there (Score:5, Informative)
Usually the versions used lags a little behind the desktop version, as a desktop version can allow to use more CPU and memory. No idea if 10.0 is in any mobile versions yet (perhaps Opera Mini is). When I worked there, the Opera 9 code base was starting to get into a lot of mobile projects.
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Ex-Opera employee here: Yes, the same code base is used for mobile and device versions of Opera.
How is that possible? Opera Mini, for example, is a MIDP 2.0 (Java 2 Micro Edition) application, while the desktop Opera appears to be C/C++. I suppose that Windows Mobile edition of Opera Mobile shares code with the desktop Opera browser (which is already coded to the Win32 API), but the Opera Mobile for the Symbian phones would almost certainly have to be Java, right?
Re:Snappiest beast out there (Score:4, Informative)
You can still reuse things like rendering engine and most of the system. Remember that Opera is also available for Mac OS and Linux and they obviously aren't using Win32 API there.
That is why he said code base, and that it lags behind because you obviously have to port some things.
Re:Snappiest beast out there (Score:5, Interesting)
Opera Mini is just a thin application. The actual "browser", or the engine, runs on a server.
Nope. They use the same engine (the biggest and most complex part of a browser), but not necessarily the same UI.
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Why Opera Mobile for Symbian would use Java instead of...native Symbian APIs? It almost seems like you're confusing Opera Mini & Mobile...they are two different beasts. Mini uses Opera engine running on Opera servers which sends reformatted/compressed webpages to it. Mobile runs the engine natively on the phone.
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If you mean Java, Flash etc. as normally meant by that then yes.
If you mean if it's a DIY framework of a browser that you'll need/want to assemble with a bunch of extensions, no. Certain parts of vanilla Firefox I think suck bigtime, like the download manager. I guess the only reason they get away with it, is because they tell people to install one of the many download manager extensions.
Who cares? I guess everyone that wants a good browser by doing "sudo apt-get install [browser]" and not spend time findin
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I hate using browsers without adblock/noscript. Are there equivalents for Opera?
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Re:plugins? (Score:5, Informative)
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Yes, Opera does have build-in blocking, but I've always preferred Ad Muncher [admuncher.com] myself. It comes with good lists and works easily - I've basically never seen ads anymore.
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Yes. Unlike Firefox, it's built-in. If you want to devise your own method, you could use the built-in GreaseMonkey work-alike (I'm not sure whether GM or Opera's UserJS came first) to implement it.
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That's what I used to think. Then I decided to lighten up a bit, and give it a shot. Then I realised I shouldn't have. Opera is very incompatible, even compared to Konqueror.
Re:Not free (Score:4, Interesting)
It's obvious why this is moded troll, however i believe you have a point.
Personally I'm a bit of a gnu zealot and that is why I'm holding on to firefox over chrome/opera, but i do find it interesting that a lot of people claim "open source software is more secure because you can view the source", then go on to run a closed app in one of the most vulnerable position on a system.
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Oprah 10.0? Does that mean she's back to being thi... wait, was Oprah 9 fat or thin Oprah?