drunken_boxer777 sends us to The Wall Street Journal for a lengthy article on a small tech company, Palantir Technologies, that is making the CIA, Pentagon, and FBI take notice. The submitter adds, "And yes, their company name is a reference to what you think it is." "One of the latest entrants into the government spy-services marketplace, Palantir Technologies has designed what many intelligence analysts say is the most effective tool to date to investigate terrorist networks. The software's main advance is a user-friendly search tool that can scan multiple data sources at once, something previous search tools couldn't do. That means an analyst who is following a tip about a planned terror attack, for example, can more quickly and easily unearth connections among suspects, money transfers, phone calls and previous attacks around the globe. ... With Palantir's software 'you can actually point to examples where it was pretty clear that lives were saved.'"
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It's interesting in the context of this discussion that Tolkien's Palentir were more than just viewing devices. They could also be used to communicate with other stones, and I think for other purposes. Anyway, when one of the stones fell into evil hands, the Dark Lord was able to use his power over it to control anyone foolish enough to try and use one of the remaining stones.
No, they were a gift from the Valar to the NÃmenÃreans to see other times and places. Sauron just happened to get a hold of one of them, and used it as an avenue to warp Saruman and Denethor's minds. There is no evidence he used the PalantÃr for their intended purpose.
Good guys used it too. To defeat Sauron AND to "keep the world safe".
In fact... Good guys made all 7 Palantir mentioned in LotR. Sauron got his hands on one of those and used it to corrupt Saruman and Denethor.
So... No. It is not "the tool the evil guy used to control the world." The message would be that "power corrupts". In this case - power in the form of knowledge or information.
What Palantir really lacked was a decent firewall. No protection whatsoever. Very intuitive user interface though. And they were practically indestructible.
It was the seeing stone that Sauron used in Lord of the Rings.
That is the tool the evil guy used to control the world. Sounds appropriate.
The Palantir themselves were not evil, it was simply put to an evil purpose. The last surviving one was so corrupted by Sauron's influence it could never be used peacefully again but you can no more blame the Palantir for that than you could blame a wrench for becoming radioactive when left sitting next to a leaky reactor. Really, the only bit of truly evil magic in the entire book was the Ring itself and, seeing as it bore a measure of Sauron's own power, I think of it less as an object than as a character with a will and mind of its own.
There is no evil in science, technology, or magic; evil lies not in the tool but the hand that wields it.
The summary seems to be a description of a meta-search engine, which is rather common. (Dogpile).
The actual product seems MUCH more interesting than the silly summary. It compartamentalizes secret info, so if you are classified for level 5, you can still search and find info that is level 6, even if the file also has level 4 information. It can also tag information so that if your level 5 clearance is not enough to tell you how person A is connected to person B, you can still know that the connection exists.
The tech sounds quite interesting; but I'm not sure I love the idea of having intelligence agents operate on a "Yes, person A is linked to person B. You aren't allowed to know why; but the omniscient computer assures you that it is so." basis.
It's all about need to know. If you knowing why is necessary to draw a conclusion, you'll eventually be granted this access.
Under the old system, you outright wouldn't even know that a connection exists, nevermind whether you need to know whether that connection is important or not.
The summary seems to be a description of a meta-search engine, which is rather common. (Dogpile).
The actual product seems MUCH more interesting than the silly summary. It compartamentalizes secret info, so if you are classified for level 5, you can still search and find info that is level 6, even if the file also has level 4 information. It can also tag information so that if your level 5 clearance is not enough to tell you how person A is connected to person B, you can still know that the connection exists.
Yeah, but if you are classified for level 5 and look at level 6, which presumably is above your classification, then you are in fact looking at classified work even if it has level 4 work - which means the levels of classification are being broken and the security is compromised. And if person A is a 5 and looking at classification 6 which is connected to person B it in effect blows any security clearances out the door. Of course, person C who is a 4 looking at person B who is a....I've gone cross-eyed, d
When you aim the Palantir tool at terrorists, you can easily identify useful patterns in disparate data. These patterns reveal information about the names and the plans of the culprits.
What happens when you aim the same tool at ordinary people like Slashdotters? You will discover sexual orientation, adultery, etc.
In other words, the same tool saving us from the terrorists can also defeat the last barriers protecting our privacy. If an intelligence officer in the government hated a particular SlashDotter (due to her articles in this forum), that officer could easily identify her address, her friends, her bank accounts, her adulterous lover, etc. Can you say, "blackmail"?
No software cannot determine your sexual orientation, nor your hidden adultery. It does not read minds, or hearts. It does not magically know events from the past or the future.
Now, if you went online and posted about your homosexual adulterous relationship on a board that publicly reveals your IP address, then yes, a tool could indeed find it. In that case, who defeated the last barrier of your privacy? Did the tool? Or is it your own darned fault?
There has been this notion that somehow if you can shove a bunch of data through algorithms that somehow you can catch terrorist networks.
More likely you're just wasting time and here's why: terrorists don't act or usually exhibit predictable and trackable behavior like normal people. Typically they deal with disposable cell phones, cash and other "untrackables".
These guys have managed to come up with Yet Another Terrorist Tracking Tool®
but as TFA points out, the people they're looking for often do things that should get them caught, like using the same address and phone number when buying the plane tickets in the case of the 9/11 hijackers. The basic idea is to find a better way to process the data they already have, and to give people the ability to process data that will help them, even when they don't necessarily have access to it (ie the use of data classified at a level higher than the searcher has access to).
Except, despite all of this, they still exist in a trackable world. They live and have stuff delivered to addresses, they access information that leaves a data trail, and use identifiers which do the same. If they share anything, or a field observer notices a meeting then it gets tagged as a meeting and connection; then any activity at all is tracked back to a single node (bank account, address, person, phone number, etc) then you can link ALL connected nodes to that activity. Cash, disposables, and other "
If you can even USE the word 'Typically' about something, your are implying that they do something often enough to make it traceable. Then you further your anti-argument by giving examples such as disposable cell phones.
Very interesting. You must be a terrorist posting disinformation.
They've plastered the Pentagon with banners practically claiming they single-handedly brought down GhostNet [wikipedia.org] when they were at best on the periphery of the rather large collection of organizations responsible for it.
No, that would be nerd card. Geeks have social skills.
You obviously didn't READ the books.
neither did I. I tried - I really tried.. but they were so horribly boring and long-winded it was impossible for me to make it through even part of the first one.
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A by Tolkein: The chicken, sunlight coruscating off its radiant yellow-white coat of feathers, approached the dark, sullen asphalt road and scrutinized it intently with its obsidian-black eyes. Every detail of the thoroughfare leapt into blinding focus: the rough texture of the surface, over which countless tires had worked their relentless tread through the ages; the innumerable fragments of stone embedded within the lugubrious mass, perhaps quarried from the great pits where the Sons of Man labored not far from here; the dull black asphalt itself, exuding those waves of heat which distort the sight and bring weakness to the body; the other attributes of the great highway too numerous to give name. And then it crossed it.
...and the battles. When I saw the movies and the battles started rolling, I had a vivid memory of how boring I had found these in the book too (and that was 25 years in the past)
In case you forgot the term engineer originally applied to constructors of military engines. Engineers have a long and healthy tradition of being clever and morally bankrupt.
I thought it went down differently than that. Zelaya was trying to rewrite the constitution to allow him more than two terms as president, a step in the direction of dictatorship.
A judge issued a warrant for his arrest because he had no right to call a vote to rewrite the constitution. The military followed the Judge's order but expelled him from the country instead of arresting him. They later said they did this to prevent his followers from getting access to Zelaya.
Call me dense... (Score:4, Interesting)
But what is the reference?
Re:Call me dense... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Call me dense... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's interesting in the context of this discussion that Tolkien's Palentir were more than just viewing devices. They could also be used to communicate with other stones, and I think for other purposes. Anyway, when one of the stones fell into evil hands, the Dark Lord was able to use his power over it to control anyone foolish enough to try and use one of the remaining stones.
There's a lesson here I think.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Let me help you with that:
http://www.google.com/search?q=palentir [google.com]
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Obviously, it refers to Jack Palance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Palance [wikipedia.org]
Name? (Score:5, Funny)
> ..a small tech company, Palentir Technologies..
> ..Palantir Technologies has..
> The submitter adds, "And yes, their company name is a reference to what you think it is."
A spellcheck company?
Reference to LotR (Score:5, Informative)
It was the seeing stone that Sauron used in Lord of the Rings.
That is the tool the evil guy used to control the world. Sounds appropriate.
Re:Reference to LotR (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks, my internet is down, I was unable to google that myself.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Thanks, my bookshelf fell down, and I was unable to read it myself.
Re:Reference to LotR (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks, my internet is down, I was unable to google that myself.
So how are you posting this?
Probably using the legendary Posting Stone of Minas Wooshgul
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
No, they were a gift from the Valar to the NÃmenÃreans to see other times and places.
Sauron just happened to get a hold of one of them, and used it as an avenue to warp Saruman and Denethor's minds. There is no evidence he used the PalantÃr for their intended purpose.
Uhh... No. Wrong perspective... (Score:5, Insightful)
Good guys used it too. To defeat Sauron AND to "keep the world safe".
In fact... Good guys made all 7 Palantir mentioned in LotR.
Sauron got his hands on one of those and used it to corrupt Saruman and Denethor.
So... No. It is not "the tool the evil guy used to control the world."
The message would be that "power corrupts". In this case - power in the form of knowledge or information.
What Palantir really lacked was a decent firewall. No protection whatsoever.
Very intuitive user interface though. And they were practically indestructible.
Parent
Re:Reference to LotR (Score:4, Informative)
It was the seeing stone that Sauron used in Lord of the Rings.
That is the tool the evil guy used to control the world. Sounds appropriate.
The Palantir themselves were not evil, it was simply put to an evil purpose. The last surviving one was so corrupted by Sauron's influence it could never be used peacefully again but you can no more blame the Palantir for that than you could blame a wrench for becoming radioactive when left sitting next to a leaky reactor. Really, the only bit of truly evil magic in the entire book was the Ring itself and, seeing as it bore a measure of Sauron's own power, I think of it less as an object than as a character with a will and mind of its own.
There is no evil in science, technology, or magic; evil lies not in the tool but the hand that wields it.
Parent
Sounds like trojan spyware to me (Score:4, Insightful)
With a name like Palentir, it sounds like trojan spy program, not a Google like search tool.
Great! (Score:4, Funny)
Palantir Technologies has designed what many intelligence analysts say is the most effective tool to date to investigate terrorist networks
What? a crystal ball to fight the terrorist:
A palantír (sometimes translated as Seeing Stone but actually meaning "Farsighted" or "One that Sees from Afar") is a stone that functions somewhat like a crystal ball. [wikipedia.org]
Re:Great! (Score:5, Insightful)
And creates a great risk of corruption among those who use it.
Parent
Re:Great! (Score:4, Funny)
Only if you use it to chat with Ozzie Ozbourne on MSN Messenger.
Parent
Re:Great! (Score:4, Funny)
> I just met this guy in the Palantir, he was like, really cool, but shy
> But he wouldn't, like, send me his picture, only a flaming eye
> So I asked "ASL?"
> But he just said: "Build me an army worthy of Mordor"
> and I was like "WTF? KThxBye!"
Parent
Bad summary (Score:5, Informative)
The actual product seems MUCH more interesting than the silly summary. It compartamentalizes secret info, so if you are classified for level 5, you can still search and find info that is level 6, even if the file also has level 4 information. It can also tag information so that if your level 5 clearance is not enough to tell you how person A is connected to person B, you can still know that the connection exists.
Re:Bad summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Bad summary (Score:4, Insightful)
It's all about need to know. If you knowing why is necessary to draw a conclusion, you'll eventually be granted this access.
Under the old system, you outright wouldn't even know that a connection exists, nevermind whether you need to know whether that connection is important or not.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The summary seems to be a description of a meta-search engine, which is rather common. (Dogpile).
The actual product seems MUCH more interesting than the silly summary. It compartamentalizes secret info, so if you are classified for level 5, you can still search and find info that is level 6, even if the file also has level 4 information. It can also tag information so that if your level 5 clearance is not enough to tell you how person A is connected to person B, you can still know that the connection exists.
Yeah, but if you are classified for level 5 and look at level 6, which presumably is above your classification, then you are in fact looking at classified work even if it has level 4 work - which means the levels of classification are being broken and the security is compromised. And if person A is a 5 and looking at classification 6 which is connected to person B it in effect blows any security clearances out the door. Of course, person C who is a 4 looking at person B who is a ....I've gone cross-eyed, d
So CIA and FBI tech enters the 90's. huzzah! (Score:2)
CIA and FBI computer systems are infamously way, way behind. They only got wikis in 2006. Now they can finally google something.
The Palantir Tool is a Double-Edged Sword (Score:5, Insightful)
What happens when you aim the same tool at ordinary people like Slashdotters? You will discover sexual orientation, adultery, etc.
In other words, the same tool saving us from the terrorists can also defeat the last barriers protecting our privacy. If an intelligence officer in the government hated a particular SlashDotter (due to her articles in this forum), that officer could easily identify her address, her friends, her bank accounts, her adulterous lover, etc. Can you say, "blackmail"?
Re:The Palantir Tool is a Double-Edged Sword (Score:5, Funny)
If an intelligence officer in the government hated a particular SlashDotter... her friends... her adulterous lover
A female SlashDotter with friends and a lover... it would take a top tier spy tool to find that unicorn.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No software cannot determine your sexual orientation, nor your hidden adultery. It does not read minds, or hearts. It does not magically know events from the past or the future.
Now, if you went online and posted about your homosexual adulterous relationship on a board that publicly reveals your IP address, then yes, a tool could indeed find it. In that case, who defeated the last barrier of your privacy? Did the tool? Or is it your own darned fault?
Re:The Palantir Tool is a Double-Edged Sword (Score:4, Funny)
Adultery? You mean like using your other hand?
Parent
Name... (Score:2)
Ok, well thats the first thing that came to my mind...
They were messing with him (Score:2)
"Hi, I'm Alex Karp," Mr. Karp said, offering his hand. No response. "I didn't know you really don't ask their names," he says now.
Real spies have fake names and ids. There's no reason not to give the guy a name, as long as everyone in the room isn't named "Bob".
Re: (Score:2)
But that would run the risk of blowing that fake name's cover. Of course, he should have been able to just make something up on the spot..
Gee it's almost impressive..... (Score:2)
More likely you're just wasting time and here's why: terrorists don't act or usually exhibit predictable and trackable behavior like normal people. Typically they deal with disposable cell phones, cash and other "untrackables".
These guys have managed to come up with Yet Another Terrorist Tracking Tool®
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
but as TFA points out, the people they're looking for often do things that should get them caught, like using the same address and phone number when buying the plane tickets in the case of the 9/11 hijackers. The basic idea is to find a better way to process the data they already have, and to give people the ability to process data that will help them, even when they don't necessarily have access to it (ie the use of data classified at a level higher than the searcher has access to).
The problem generally ha
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Except, despite all of this, they still exist in a trackable world. They live and have stuff delivered to addresses, they access information that leaves a data trail, and use identifiers which do the same. If they share anything, or a field observer notices a meeting then it gets tagged as a meeting and connection; then any activity at all is tracked back to a single node (bank account, address, person, phone number, etc) then you can link ALL connected nodes to that activity. Cash, disposables, and other "
Re: (Score:2)
If you can even USE the word 'Typically' about something, your are implying that they do something often enough to make it traceable. Then you further your anti-argument by giving examples such as disposable cell phones.
Very interesting. You must be a terrorist posting disinformation.
Or maybe I am for pointing it out ;)
Governmentsss spying on their own citizensss ... (Score:5, Funny)
... we hatesss it, Preciousss, yesss we doesss.
A double edged sword (Score:2)
Splunk! (Score:2)
Cool, so they just invented Splunk! Cool. Is it any cheaper than splunk, because if it is, I'll use it.
TOTALLY NOVEL! (Score:2)
> The software's main advance is a user-friendly search tool that can scan multiple data sources at once, something previous search tools couldn't do
OMG! Did someone finally discover the hidden "UNION" conjunction in SQL?
Starlight! (Score:2)
This sounds similar to Starlight [wikipedia.org], which the NSA uses for all kinds of "connect the dots" type intelligence activities.
Re:Palin? (Score:5, Informative)
No, it's a Tolkien reference [wikipedia.org]. IOW, they really are geeks.
Parent
They're also disingenuous astroturfers. (Score:3, Interesting)
They've plastered the Pentagon with banners practically claiming they single-handedly brought down GhostNet [wikipedia.org] when they were at best on the periphery of the rather large collection of organizations responsible for it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's not like as though the company was named "Rusty Trombones Inc." or something
That would be a Commander Riker reference?
Re:Palin? (Score:5, Funny)
Please turn in your geek card.
No, that would be nerd card. Geeks have social skills.
You obviously didn't READ the books.
neither did I. I tried - I really tried.. but they were so horribly boring and long-winded it was impossible for me to make it through even part of the first one.
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A by Tolkein: The chicken, sunlight coruscating off its radiant yellow-white coat of feathers, approached the dark, sullen asphalt road and scrutinized it intently with its obsidian-black eyes. Every detail of the thoroughfare leapt into blinding focus: the rough texture of the surface, over which countless tires had worked their relentless tread through the ages; the innumerable fragments of stone embedded within the lugubrious mass, perhaps quarried from the great pits where the Sons of Man labored not far from here; the dull black asphalt itself, exuding those waves of heat which distort the sight and bring weakness to the body; the other attributes of the great highway too numerous to give name. And then it crossed it.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Palin? (Score:5, Insightful)
... a badly written child's fantasy world ....
Now now, Tolkien's Middle-earth was a badly-written ADULT'S fantasy world.
Parent
badly written? (Score:3, Insightful)
i'm guessing you thing Twilight and Harry Potter are works of genius?
i'm surprised more people haven't taken your flamebait.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
You mean like Honduras [latimes.com]?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I thought it went down differently than that. Zelaya was trying to rewrite the constitution to allow him more than two terms as president, a step in the direction of dictatorship.
A judge issued a warrant for his arrest because he had no right to call a vote to rewrite the constitution. The military followed the Judge's order but expelled him from the country instead of arresting him. They later said they did this to prevent his followers from getting access to Zelaya.
The military was never in charge of t