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Comments: 155 +- News: Sam Ramji, Microsoft's Open Source Guru, Is Moving On on Saturday September 12, @09:18AM
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barking_at_airplanes writes "Some called him crazy a few years ago when he joined Microsoft to run the Open Source Software Lab, but Sam Ramji endured and made real differences to how Microsoft treats open source and how open source people view Microsoft. Ramji is now heading back to Silicon Valley to join a cloud computing startup. Sam comments in his announcement: '46 months later, I am amazed at the changes that have occurred for the company, for the team I belonged to, and the sentiments of the industry.' It's a statement which, 46 months ago, few Slashdotters would have thought could come true! With Sam leaving, can Microsoft's positive momentum into open source continue successfully? Bill Hilf says they're 'actively seeking someone to fill Sam's shoes.'"
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Interviews: Ask Sam Ramji About the CodePlex Foundation 77 comments
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I know! (Score:5, Funny)
Hire Stallman!
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Then, I had this thought of them becoming the best of buds and ruling the World.
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We would all be screwed.
Re:I know! (Score:5, Funny)
Ballmer/Gates: We must use only Microsoft products
Jobs: I don't care what we use but it has to look cool and have shiny logos on it
Torvalds: I don't care as long as it does one thing and does it well.
Yeah
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Re:I know! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:I know! (Score:5, Funny)
Wait... so we would get free Microsoft products that look cool and only do one thing, but they do it well? Can we please lock those guys up in a room already until they come up with that idea?
They have already written FDISK decades ago...
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Re:I know! (Score:5, Funny)
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Reality show... (Score:3, Insightful)
But you have to admit, it would make for an awesome reality show.
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Even scarier would be Stallman, Ballmer, Gates, Jobs, and Torvalds all together in the same room planning to take over the world...
I'd rather see them in a room playing D&D. That would be interesting.
Re:I know! (Score:5, Funny)
Bullshit.
Best Regards,
Larry E.
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Re:I know! (Score:5, Funny)
I just had this image of Stallman and Ballmer in a room together.
Uhm, the chairs would propably get caught in Stallman's beard.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
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You mean as in:
Re:I know! (Score:5, Funny)
Better yet, have Microsoft 'ask Slashdot'. I'm sure there'll be lots of people with ideas on how to continue/improve things.
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Re:I know! (Score:4, Funny)
If getting a job offer from Microsoft didn't kill him, I'm not sure what would. Ninjas?
No, wait, that's been tried. (http://www.yale.edu/ypu/blog.html)
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Bull, meet china shop!
Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sam Ramji... made real differences to how Microsoft treats open source and how open source people view Microsoft.
[Citation needed]
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe it.
A few years ago, Microsoft was ignoring Free Software and Open Source. Now Microsoft has moved onto misleading branding, false marketing, patent threats, and courting developers with what traditionally turned out to be empty promises.
So, the same way they treat other competition.
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You forgot one... (Score:5, Insightful)
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[Citation needed]
[1-999 [slashdot.org]]
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Sorry if I don't trust your source. It's always been a little slanted...
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
Single patent system, so they could effectively fight Open Source (which is not centered in a single country)
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/09/09/02/2036227/Microsoft-Pushes-For-Single-Global-Patent-System?from=rss [slashdot.org]
Failed attempt to sell out a small portions of less useful patents to patent trolls
(this was most likely a tentative attempt and the next one will have a bigger impact)
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/09/08/213217/Microsoft-Letting-Patents-Move-To-Linux-Firms?from=rss [slashdot.org]
Suing TomTom because it is using the FAT filesystem
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212 [slashdot.org]
'Releasing GPL drivers' after found violating GPL
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/23/1327205 [slashdot.org]
'training' BestBuy employees with false facts
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/09/05/195219/Microsoft-Attacks-Linux-With-Retail-Training-Talking-Points [slashdot.org]
I hope you are satisfied by the citations.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They are on Wikipedia, since most of the editiots don't know the difference between common knowledge and original research.
For example see this concerning colour contrast on roadsigns [wikipedia.org]. The last sentence is clearly true to anyone who holds a driving license or has even walked down a street, yet some 'dromer has tagged it [citation needed]
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To be fair, Microsoft has made a big push into opening their source code and helping spearhead community-led projects. Two examples:
Granted, the first one isn't a true open source project in that they don't accept patches from the community, but I think that if you compare today's Microsoft and their culture toward sharing source code with the community is q
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Granted, the first one isn't a true open source project in that they don't accept patches from the community
There's nothing about open source that says that the original maintainers have to accept patches from outside the initial group.
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Granted, the first one isn't a true open source project in that they don't accept patches from the community
There's nothing about open source that says that the original maintainers have to accept patches from outside the initial group.
True. Although I prefer Jeff Atwood's definition of open source [codinghorror.com]:
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That was nearly my exact thought. (Of course a citation — just as on Wikipedia — actually means nothing and is just a obfuscation of the fact, that there still is no proof. [Argumentum ad populum [wikipedia.org]])
I don't see some real differences. I just see some people believing that there are differences, because of some people saying that there are differences, because of either some other people saying that there are differences [circular reasoning [wikipedia.org]] or because they made it up (including favorable interpreta
What are you smoking? (Score:5, Insightful)
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The article claims Ramji has improved relations between Microsoft and open source people? Since when have relations between Microsoft and open source been anything but negative? We read stories on here almost every day about some new point of conflict.
Hang around Groklaw much?
"OMG! Microsoft is teh EVIL! Did you see Psystar is suing Apple! They're REALLY trying to destroy the GPL! Somebody (hint... hint...) really wants to destroy the GPL!!!!"
Think I'm kidding? Yeah, I know the Groklaw legions will mod this down. But seriously, read Groklaw with the same skepticism PJ aims at, say, SCO, and you'll see what I mean. For someone who basis her entire site on respect for due process, she sure doesn't need due process or even any evidence to put on the
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The article claims Ramji has improved relations between Microsoft and open source people? Since when have relations between Microsoft and open source been anything but negative? We read stories on here almost every day about some new point of conflict.
In all fairness, Microsoft has been spreading misinformation the whole time Sam Ramji has been working there. Why would they stop now that he's leaving?
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It sort of feels like Microsoft's relations with OSS are "less negative" now, so I guess that's an improvement. It is, of course, possible that they've merely moved from denial to trying "embrace and extend". But due to the way OSS works I doubt that tactic will even work - in the end - if they try it.
Re:What are you smoking? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. Microsoft's Linux Lab is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham. And then some. IMO
LoB
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Microsoft's Open Source Strategy (Score:4, Insightful)
Here is how Bill Hilf explains Microsoft's Open Source Strategy:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=203100965&pgno=3 [informationweek.com] ... versus LITIGATE."
".. our PREFERRED plan is to LICENSE
Gee, where have we heard that before? Oh yes. Darl McBride, CEO of The SCO Group:
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2003/07/59701 [wired.com]
"We would PREFER LICENSING to LITIGATION,"
Such a nice bunch of guys.
Re:Microsoft's Open Source Strategy (Score:5, Interesting)
In all fairness, Bill Gates used to brag how Microsoft never sued anyone (before the TomTom fiasco). They use FUD, but they didn't follow through on threats. I'm curious if the TomTom suit was an isolated incident, or the future direction of Microsoft.
One of the major failings of the United States is that money can trump justice in civil suits. Simply bankrupting another company in a lawsuit can guarantee you victory, which is why TomTom rolled over, rather than fight a battle they likely could have won in court.
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Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft has announced Microsoft CodePlex [today.com], its new Open Source foundation.
"We want to be more responsive to your needs," said Sam Ramji of Microsoft during a Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit panel this week as he wiped rotten tomatoes off his suit.
"We want all open source innovation to happen on Windows. In practice, Windows is too slow, and just putting Linux underneath the same software stack triples performance. So we're running the Windows versions of the software on Linux using Wine. We'll also be funding the Wine on Windows initiative."
The new Microsoft Amazingly Open And Genuine Public License allows you complete freedom to use, modify and redistribute the software provided that every copy comes with a DVD of Windows Vista Ultimate, you acknowledge that Microsoft's FAT patent protects a remarkable and valuable innovation in computer science and all accompanying documentation is in OOXML. Also, all your data belongs to Microsoft.
The overwhelming dominance of Microsoft was assured, he said, pointing to their success in paying netbook manufacturers to use Windows XP and paying US retailers not to stock the Linux versions of the computers. "We're also enforcing our patent on right-clicking. And on the number seven." Ramji reassured journalists of his absolute faith in the power of Microsoft's vision, just before quitting to work somewhere -- anywhere -- else.
Re:Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Microsoft promises to play nice *this* time (Score:5, Informative)
*cough* [winehq.org]
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Microsoft actually said after Vista's release that emulation/virtualization was likely the future for Windows, as they planned to seriously break APIs moving forward. They said instead of a full virtual-PC, they'd be able to do low-level emulation or virtualization per application. Since 7 was so rushed, we didn't get to see this fully realized. Instead 7 ships with Virtual PC. But I think something like Wine on Windows to intercept old Windows API calls will literally be a part of the next (post-7) OS from
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So... we wait another 6 months or so? /duck
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MS "embracing" open source I believe is the ultimate nuclear option for MS to take open source apart from the inside out. Watch them put on the sheep's clothing, and then try and run it in to the ground.
This is the first I've heard of him. (Score:2, Funny)
This is the first I've heard of him. If I had heard of him before now, I sure as hell didn't remember him.
"Success", "open source" and "Microsoft" can only come together in one way: the release of ALL of Microsoft's source code under the BSD or MIT licenses. We're talking .NET, Windows, Internet Explorer, Office, SQL Server, and all of their lesser-known business software.
That clearly hasn't happened, so there hasn't been any success here.
!change (Score:5, Insightful)
Not ever Microsoft employee is evil (Score:5, Insightful)
The overall direction of the company is evil. They have done plenty of evil things. Balmer is still a patent troll. But Microsoft is a giant company win tons of divisions. And many of their employees are real, decent human beings. Not all Microsoft divisions agree with patent trolling, FUD, extinguishing open standards, etc. In fact I talked to a Microsoft employee who once said you have to realize this is a company that doesn't have the management or foresight to have the Exchange team directly tied to the Outlook team, because Exchange is a separate server product, where as Outlook is merely part of the Office team.
I think a lot of people fail to notice that Microsoft is LESS EVIL than they were before. No doubt, guys like Sam Ramji played a part in that. For that, I am grateful.
Kudos to you, sir.
That being said, does his non-compete kick into effect since Ray Ozzie said Microsoft's future 100% lies with cloud computing, and Ramji is going to a competing cloud computing company? And do you want to run a start-up trying to compete with a multi-billion dollar behemoth that likes to crush competition?
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I think a lot of people fail to notice that Microsoft is LESS EVIL than they were before. No doubt, guys like Sam Ramji played a part in that. For that, I am grateful.
How are they less evil? All they have done is simply went from ignoring OSS to attempting to embrace and extend it. All they have done is realize that OSS is in actual competition to their software and if they don't at least make improvements to their software, people will chose OSS over MS software.
And do you want to run a start-up trying to compete with a multi-billion dollar behemoth that likes to crush competition?
One way MS likes to crush competition is by buying them. When you get millions for your company for doing very little, I'd say its a success. Yeah, if your an employee things might not be as good, but if you
Re:Not ever Microsoft employee is evil (Score:4, Funny)
How are they less evil? All they have done is simply went from ignoring OSS to attempting to embrace and extend it.
They've made patent pledges not to sue, allowing others to use their patented technologies for free. Old Microsoft would never have done that.
The IE team has worked to better respect web standards. The IE team even sends open encouragement to Firefox, saying they welcome innovation and competition. I read an interview with an IE developer who said his daughter accused him of breaking the internet. Since IE 6, the IE devs have made several positive strides for far more compliant rendering.
Microsoft is assisting the Mono developers, but again Mono owns all copyright on all the code, and the code is GPL. Microsoft is also assisting the same developers with Moonlight.
When you load IE, it prompts you to choose a search engine. Firefox and other browsers simply give you a default with no choice.
Microsoft has released a boat-load of technical documentation, enabling the Samba devs to reach 100% feature parity for better interoperability.
Microsoft just released GPL code directly for the first time. It was Hyper-V drivers for Linux, which is self-serving, but it does benefit interoperability. It is possible in joint ventures like these to have a win-win. I'm fine with that.
There are plenty of examples like this. It is entirely possible that Microsoft is only playing nice because the EU is demanding it. Or it could be that they honestly want to start playing nice. Either way, the result is that Microsoft is less evil than before.
Is Ballmer still a patent troll? Yes. Is Microsoft brainwashing Best Buy employees with FUD? Yes. Was the OOXML fiasco illegal? Yes. (It is against US federal laws to bribe foreign officials). Was it illegal when Microsoft used bribes to block foreign Mandriva deals? Yes.
But Microsoft is more open than they were before. They used to be 99% evil, and now they're more like 90% evil.
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Microsoft management, starting with Bill Gates, has always been evil. Gates is an evil genius, if there ever was one. And part of his genius is looking good to the public eye despite all the crap he's pulled.
Sure, he's done a lot of good things, like consolidate the IBM PC industry into one platform, resulting in the rise of the computing age. And he's not nearly as evil as Jobs. But that's like saying, without WWII, the American industrial complex would've never developed, and Stalin is worse than Hitler (
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Head of Gnome, right? Lead developer in bringing Microsoft .NET to Gnome, worked in Novell as vice president of development (which is partnered by Microsoft) and now is a director for Codeplex, Microsoft's new opensource foundation.
If that isn't unsettling enough, he's a /b/tard. Look at this post from his twitter:
"That last picture from @abock is photoshopped. I can tell because of the pixels and having seen a lot of shops' myself."
holy shit
I just think this guy is a massive troll. I can just picture