Russia's New Official Holiday — Programmer's Day 306
Glyn Moody writes "Russia's president, Dmitry Medvedev, has decreed a new holiday for his country: Programmer's Day. Appropriately enough, it will be celebrated on the 256th day of the year: September 13th (September 12th for a leap year). Do programmers deserve their own holiday ahead of other professions? Should the rest of the world follow suit?"
Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
At least... (Score:2, Insightful)
At least it doesn't interfere with Obama's Day of Service to our Government masters on September 11.
Wetware Not Software (Score:5, Insightful)
I think, in what is fast becoming a fascist state of one part gangsterism and one part corporatism, the programmers they're talking about aren't the programmers you're thinking about.
answer (Score:3, Insightful)
No.
Should the rest of the world follow suit?
No.
Re:new battlefront (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:At least... (Score:1, Insightful)
Ever heard of December 7, 1941? Or the remembrance day officially attached to the date December 7, every year?
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but it looks like they have a plenty of _real_ programmers. It's quite striking that MIT didn't win the ACM competition in at least 10 years:
# 2009 - Saint Petersburg University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics, Russia
# 2008 - Saint Petersburg University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics, Russia
# 2007 - University of Warsaw, Poland
# 2006 - Saratov State University, Russia
# 2005 - Shanghai Jiao Tong University, China
# 2004 - Saint Petersburg University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics, Russia
# 2003 - University of Warsaw, Poland
# 2002 - Shanghai Jiao Tong University, China
# 2001 - St. Petersburg State University, Russia
# 2000 - St. Petersburg State University, Russia
# 1999 - University of Waterloo, Canada
# 1998 - Charles University, Czech Republic
While parent was probably aiming for "funny" mod.. (Score:1, Insightful)
I was coming here to say the same thing, kudos sir!
The last real program to come out of Russia was Tetris, hardly worthy of a holiday.
Software industry is actually rather big in Russia. It is a decent place for outsource to. They don't offer quite as cheap prices as you could get in India but there are some benefits.
The (work) culture resembles western culture a lot more than the culture (and conditions) in India do. It is easier to negotiate with the local companies, it is easier to send your own workers to oversee the project, etc. when cultures are more similar.
In addition... While I (having visited Russia many times) would never deny that there is a massive amount of corruption (I've had to bribe the militia/police once though I've spent there only a few months in total. And no, I had done nothing wrong except that I drove a foreign, relatively new looking car. Giving a small bribe is a lot faster and easier for everyone than trying to argue with them at that point.)... It is not as bad with software companies.
The rich can bribe their ways to good degrees from universities but those people don't usually send their children to study software engineering. As a result, you can trust the degrees at least a little. If I was given no other information, I would hire a Russian coder with Bachelor's degree any day over a guy with similar degree from an university in India...
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:2, Insightful)
Amazing how defenses of Bolshevik economics get modded up in spite of how truly horrible it was to actually live in an economy like that. I would rather work in a country where you can actually earn something for a full days work than one where the government comes in and mandates that noone is allowed to work more than 8 hours. I work probably 9-10 hours a day, but at least I get something out of it. And I would not have in the old 'Workers Paradise'.
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:4, Insightful)
Whoever modded parent "troll" is a jackass. Tetris really was a profoundly important game; given its popularity and the market it spawned, it's probably up there with, say, Visicalc and Mosaic on the list of (so to speak) game-changing software -- programs that weren't just commercially successful, but created a market for a whole new type of computing. Given that today's cell phone games -- many of which are very Tetris-like -- use more processing power than what was generally available on the desktop when Tetris was first introduced, dismissing its importance because it was "just a game" is a mistake.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you have no idea how horrible things in Russia actually were before the Revolution. "Earn something for a full days work," bwahahaha. Yes, in retrospect Communism was a terrible mistake. But it didn't happen in a vacuum -- there was a reason people were willing to fight against the existing system.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:3, Insightful)
No doubt things were bad in Russia, but the Bolsheviks were not the ones with the solutions. There were lots of pro-democracy and moderate socialists who on the rise before the Bolsheviks seized power. Those were the ones who could have turned Russia's industrial revolution into a good thing, but Lenin (and later Stalin) basically had them killed and exiled. To say that the Bolsheviks were the champions of workers welfare is just crazy. :)
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:5, Insightful)
Communism is not perfect, and I like free market economy. But some things need to be said "NO" to.
You: "I want to work for 10 hours!"
Boss: "Oh, everyone! He can work for 10 hours, that means you can work for 10 hours!"
or:
Boss: "Look, that Other Company makes employees work 12 hours a day! That means we can do that too!"
Worker: "But, that's not fair..."
Boss: "Law doesn't agree!"
Some things need to be mandated through legislation. Is maximum work hours something to be mandated? I don't know, it depends on situation. If bosses don't abuse their power, then sure, sometimes I'd love to be able to work extended hours. But if you live in 19th century and you're a coal miner or a factory worker...
Would you allow child labor?
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:4, Insightful)
The worker doesnt have to go along with whatever the boss wants. It is a free country. If my boss said that he was going to pay me half of what I make now and ask me to work 16 hours a day I would quit. Sure bosses will try to get as much as they can, but that doesnt mean the workers have to go along with it. Other companies have to compete for workers. That is part of what makes the economy viable.
I am not a total free market ideologue, I do agree that some things need to be regulated. (particularly risk taking in the financial sector) But generally speaking I believe that workers and employers should be able to come to their own agreements with regards to compensation relative to amount of work done.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that there is a huge disparity in power between employers and employees. You, as an employee, are expendable in the vast majority of circumstances. Some person more desperate than you will take your job. All your boss loses is the time he's put into training you. You, on the other hand, lose your shirt.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:3, Insightful)
I suppose that a lot of that has to do with what industry you work in, but in general I would disagree. For example programmers (I choose it because it is the original topic of this thread) :) are hugely expensive to replace. For some complex software products it can take years to get to know all the ins and outs.
What do you really lose by quitting your job? Assuming you can find a comparable new one I do not see any real loss.
I agree that the model breaks down somewhat in eras of extremely high unemployment where other work is totally unavailable and people who want your job are desperate. But I think that the logical conclusion of this is that the government should be focused on maintaining a stable and relatively low (ie 5-6%) unemployment rate, not on legislating worker-employer agreements. And currently, this is what the government does in the USA. Eras of high unemployment tend to be relatively short in the grand scheme of things in the United States. (and frankly, the USA standard of high unemployment and hardship is far different from virtually every other country in the world)
Re:Wetware Not Software (Score:3, Insightful)
As far as I know, they are the worldwide providers of cracks and rips for all our software and movie needs. Then the Chinese distribute it.
I, for one, am thankful for that service. ^^
Oh, and my sig unintentionally fits your subject nicely: (copied into the comment for long-term archiving)
-- ;)
Real hackers hack brains! Real tinkerers tune their body! Computers are for n00bs.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:1, Insightful)
I suppose that a lot of that has to do with what industry you work in, but in general I would disagree. For example programmers (I choose it because it is the original topic of this thread) :) are hugely expensive to replace. For some complex software products it can take years to get to know all the ins and outs.
That certainly explains why more and more programming and IT jobs are outsourced to India and the like eh?
Re:Yes. (Score:4, Insightful)
Programmers are teachers, scientists, mathematicians and artists all in one. In that I've never met a programmer unwilling to share their insight and knowledge, hypothesize, construct a proof or make something cool appear on the screen.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:3, Insightful)
Programmers in small companies, as well as architects and core team may be indispensable. Let's call them Developers; they are key to the product.
However, in large corporations (those who, from my observations, care about their employees much less) most programmers are much more easily replaceable, too. Let's call them Programmers.
Developers know the ins-and-outs of the product, they know exactly where to put the next piece of the puzzle. But sometimes (or often?) you deal with Programmers; they may privately be excellent designers, but at work they still do just the dirty work. They create simple modules designed by the Architect, with suggestions from the Developers.
Those Programmers are certainly easily replaceable. What about Developers? Developers are most certainly capable of quickly learning their way around, or else the product would end up nowhere. Lay off a Programmer -- you lose someone you can replace with a fresh-out-of-college guy. Lay off a Developer -- you lose someone you can replace with another developer... who will relatively quickly find his way around, but will accept an authority figure much better than the one you laid off.
Soon the new Developer can be bossed around quite easily, Initech [wikipedia.org] style.
In other words, a bit more difficult to handle than with regular workers, but still quite practicable. Especially when the Manager in the big corporation has no idea why it's such a big deal to lay off the Developer.
Re:Humm .. (Score:3, Insightful)
Good thing you skipped the 0th day.
2^0 = 1
Actually, programmers usually start counting from zero. So the 0th day would be January 1st.
Re:Humm .. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good thing you skipped the 0th day. I'd be expect the conversations with the folks in HR would be less than productive.
Is there ever any other kind of conversation with the folks in HR?
Re:In Soviet Russia, (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah Russia, Poland and China... where software is free.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you ever wondered WHY Bolsheviks had won?
Workers in Tsarist Russia were forced to work 16-18 hours six of seven days a week to be able just to feed themselves. For them there were no paid vacations, no pensions, no healthcare, no nothing. Do you think that anybody in their right mind would agree to work additional 8 hours in a coal mine just for fun?
"I work probably 9-10 hours a day, but at least I get something out of it" - that's because workers' movements had won in the USA and other Western countries. You were lucky that it had happened just before the advent of Communism.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe you should learn some Soviet history?
Criminal punishments for skipped workdays were in effect from 1940 to 1946 - essentially during the WWII.
Later, there were punishments for 'social parasitism' if you were unemployed for more than 4 consecutive months (not counting vacations, medical leaves, full-time education, etc.). And the Soviet government guaranteed employment for everyone.
So stop telling fictional horror stories. There were enough real horror stories about the Soviet regime.
Re:In honor of Programmer's Day (Score:3, Insightful)
It also benefits employment, which was the main argument for the 35 hour week in France (unfortunately it was very poorly implemented). In sectors where you need a certain number of man-hours to get something done (not programming, think, manufacturing), if you need 840 man-hours a week, and that you can make your workers work 40 hours, then you'll have 21 workers. But if you can only make your workers work 35 hours, you'll need to hire 3 more workers because you need 24 of them now.
This being said, that's one of those things that improve everybody's quality of life too, finishing work one hour earlier every evening is pretty nice, gives you more time to do whatever you have/want to do, and thus reduces stress. Besides I'm pretty sure that by reducing your work by 1/8th your productivity drop would be less than 1/8th. At least in cubicle jobs where people get bored and spend two hours on facebook and playing flash games.
Re:Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
Right. I think I've met more teachers who are better at teaching, than programmers who wish to teach.
I am a programmer, and I am usually quite reluctant to teaching people about e.g. programming, unless I'm paid for it. It is just too much work, much like the idea of helping out random people you barely know because "I know computers". Give me the money, and then we'll talk. And that, without any guarantees that I'm a good teacher, as, like MOST programmers out there, haven't been educated in pedagogy.
I mean, sure, we're many programmers or IT folks here, that's even an understatement.
But let's keep our feet on the ground for a while.
I'm definitely not refuting that you've met programmers who're also good teachers, but this is not an inherent property of being a programmer IMNSHO.
Re:Err, what? (Score:3, Insightful)
255 is the 256th value on the counter, thus that's why you chose the 256th day, no matter which exact date it is.
Re:It is usually celebrated by... (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice correlation. Now about that causation...