In the latest example of how just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, one credit union has decided to offer a new feature, dubbed "tweetMyMoney," that allows members to interact with their accounts via Twitter. Can't wait for the next version, "tweetSomeoneElsesMoney." "tweetMyMoney, available exclusively to Vantage members! With tweetMyMoney, you can monitor your account balance, deposits, withdrawals, holds and cleared checks with simple commands. And, you can even transfer funds within your account. It's all available on Twitter, 24/7!"
"This Twitter thing, yeah, it's all, like, Web Two Point Oh, and customer synergy interaction right, and then people can, like, interact with their data and it'll be all like, in the Cloud! Yeah!"
I can guarantee something very much like the above took place in their marketing department shortly before this was built. I've spent 10 years listening to this from marketing geeks - nothing more dangerous than a new technology half-understood.
Yeah, so what ? It's perfect, it's genius!
Now I only have to fit the nigerian scam letter in a 120 characters tweet... and they can, in one or two simple click, send me the money!
Can't you see the advancement ?
Even if its secure from the perspective of other users (which it's not - does twitter even have a password policy?), it's ripe for abuse by twitter staff members, and anyone working in their co-lo centres (I'm assuming tweets are stored unencrypted). After all the push for two factor authentication and security management, we get this? Truly a WTF of the highest calibre.
I guarantee that the marketing guys will think this is a success. Banking is one of many industries that can benefit from "gettin'em young". I bet this will bring in a ton of new accounts; and that is worth far more than paying back a few thousand because someone's twitter account got pawned.
Yeah, apparently that site deletes the generated images after an hour or so. It showed a cat on a keyboard and said "I'm on ur Twitter" at the top, and at the bottom, "Sendin monee to Switzerland."
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Monday September 28, @02:19PM (#29570353)
1. Target needs to be authenticated to the user. This should require some positive action, as opposed to relying on certificates which are mostly ignored and whose provenance is not as strongly assured as was initially advertised. 2. Customer needs to authenticate to the target. Passwords are not enough since humans can remember approximately 1 password only, and only if they use it constantly. The authentication should change and replays should be rejected. 3. Customer must affirm details of the transaction before it is committed. This too must use some method that is changeable and disallows playback.
Ideally a transaction will have all these elements in one idempotent package, the way for example a check might if the signature were a better biometric than it is and if the signature were checked always. That is however technically awkward on a net, so the 3 elements listed may need to be separately done. Omitting any of the elements allows different classes of attacks. If all the elements are present and tied together, attacks become very hard. Also, note, step 3 makes it largely irrelevant whether the customer is declared not-present afterwards or not. It serves also to terminate the transaction. Whether another transaction is begun or not is for the most part immaterial. (A method I have advocated to accomplish these would allow several transactions to be tied together if desired, in one session, but there would always be a "signature" or "affirmation" step for each, even if the initial authentication steps were recent enough to continue to use them.)
This needs hardware. However it can be done very cheaply; the hardware needed can in quantity be had for perhaps $3 a copy, possibly less, even as electronics. Paper approximations could be far cheaper still.
This seems like a GREAT way to lose all your money quickly.
I guess after it happens, you'll at least have something to really tweet about (as opposed to the fact you bought the new Brittney Spears album - no one cares!).
How about the very idea of banking by twitter? What twit thought THAT one up??
With tweetMyMoney, you can monitor your account balance, deposits, withdrawals, holds and cleared checks with simple commands. And, you can even transfer funds within your account. It's all available on Twitter, 24/7! And, the best part is, our tweetMyMoney service is free!
So how is this mobile? If your phone can send and receive text messages and you're on Twitter, you're in! tweetMyMoney uses Twitter's Direct Message feature to return the account information you request.
I don't need Twitter for that -- I just call the bank and talk to a human.
Now we see why the banking industry is so screwed; it's run by morons.
"Welcome to [...] telephone banking. Please enter your account number, followed by hash" beep boop beep biip boop beep beep boop baap "Please enter the fourth digit of your PIN" boop "Please enter the last digit of your post code" beep "In the word 'money', 'N' is in position three. In your password, what position is 'F' in?" boop "Your balance is £1234.56. Press 1 to..."
I feel more comfortable communicating with a robot.
(Having said that, I've only ever checked my balance. I'm not sure I'd do anything more t
Dear Vantage customer, our free joke service will send you a tweet every day with a new hilarious joke. Please tweet "#tran $1000 f1 t123456" to @myvcu to start!
Lots of OMGWTF!!! responses here, but having looked over the information they're providing (balances, holds, cleared checks, etc) and noting that there's no transmission of account numbers, PINs or other identifying information, I'm not seeing a major problem.
Just because you can have a knee-jerk reaction doesn't mean you should.
While the public messages get all the press, people who don't use twitter may not realize that you can send direct messages [twitter.com] on twitter, which are private. That's what this system is using.
While the public messages get all the press, people who don't use twitter may not realize that you can send direct messages on twitter, which are private. That's what this system is using.
They also let you do transfers. Which was in TFS if you bothered to read it. You can do this without sending account numbers (just use account suffixes) but what happens when your twitter account gets hacked and someone transfers all of your money from your checking suffix to your savings? Say hello to overdraft fees.
I have a password requirement for this kind of information from my bank. I'm not sure I'd want these kinds of information in public space.
I imagine attackers would find this to be of high value:
1) You can reasonably identify and even physically locate Twitter users
2) This information tells you the status of their bank account, along with usage data that gives one the idea of when it is most ripe (after payday, before the bills come out automatically)
3) This information could be used to predict your physica
Let me show you why this is a bad idea. Even if it is just 'check 153 cleared' or 'ATM: amt withdrawn 300 dollars'.
'Hi this is XYZ from ABC credit agency we see that you have 300 dollars cash right now in your hands and you owe us 2389 and 48 cents please swing by and pay us'.
Or how about 'Hey I know where Jim lives and he has 300 in cash on him right now lets go rob him'.
Or how about
'We can glean information about peoples bank accounts from their twitter accounts and then connect it thru advertising' 'Monk
I don't see the point of the service, but then I don't use Twitter.
I also don't see the point of all the critics. Everyone alludes to how easily someone can steal your money with this. Ok... how?
I see a bunch of functionality where you can monitor your account status. The only thing I see that mentions affecting your account status is transfering money within your account. I guess that's enough that you could mess with someone, but where's the profit motive? You're going to commit wire fraud just to piss someone off?
Harper's had the foresight to publish [google.com] an anthropomorphized metaphorical tale of the interactions between Twitter and banks, some years ago:
Twitter laid down Halibut's money, with six cents additional drawn from his own pocket, on the counter, and took two cigars, one of which he presented to Halibut. Dukling scrutinized the dollar bill with provoking keenness.
"Have you another bill, Sir?" said Dukling, with an innocent smile.
Basically you attach your twitter account to your paypal account, then you can send money to any other twitter user with a simple message to that effect.
Of course, the catch is that the money never actually gets transferred until you "settle" the account. It just keeps a running tally for everybody, then you settle and pay the whole shebang at once.
two words (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hey, I know what'd be great!" (Score:5, Interesting)
I can guarantee something very much like the above took place in their marketing department shortly before this was built. I've spent 10 years listening to this from marketing geeks - nothing more dangerous than a new technology half-understood.
Parent
Re:"Hey, I know what'd be great!" (Score:5, Funny)
Now I only have to fit the nigerian scam letter in a 120 characters tweet... and they can, in one or two simple click, send me the money!
Can't you see the advancement ?
Parent
Re:"Hey, I know what'd be great!" (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:"Hey, I know what'd be great!" (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, does the bank also have a branch in Second Life? Come on man, Second Life, it's the future! Even CNN has an office there!
Oh wait, it's not 2007 anymore...
Parent
Re:two words (Score:4, Funny)
That's right folks, this is indeed the Apocalypse.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:two words (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:two words (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:two words (Score:4, Informative)
Obligatory post, really:
"But, what could go wrong?"
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I was laughing . . . until I realized it was my bank.
Suddenly the humor in it escapes me.
Two words (Score:4, Funny)
Epic FAIL!
Re:Two words (Score:4, Funny)
Or the LOLCats version
http://bighugelabs.com/output/lolcat6528288a5fbaabe890a88dbfecccb45635d9ef59.jpg [bighugelabs.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Your epic fail is having an epic fail.
Page not found (/.d already?)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, apparently that site deletes the generated images after an hour or so. It showed a cat on a keyboard and said "I'm on ur Twitter" at the top, and at the bottom, "Sendin monee to Switzerland."
Re:Two words (Score:5, Funny)
Twitter meets banking: a whale too large to fail.
Parent
Transactions need 3 elements to be safe... (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Target needs to be authenticated to the user. This should require some positive action, as opposed to relying on certificates which are mostly ignored and whose provenance is not as strongly assured as was initially advertised.
2. Customer needs to authenticate to the target. Passwords are not enough since humans can remember approximately 1 password only, and only if they use it constantly. The authentication should change and replays should be rejected.
3. Customer must affirm details of the transaction before it is committed. This too must use some method that is changeable and disallows playback.
Ideally a transaction will have all these elements in one idempotent package, the way for example a check might if the signature were a better biometric than it is and if the signature were checked always. That is however technically awkward on a net, so the 3 elements listed may need to be separately done. Omitting any of the elements allows different classes of attacks. If all the elements are present and tied together, attacks become very hard. Also, note, step 3 makes it largely irrelevant whether the customer is declared not-present afterwards or not. It serves also to terminate the transaction. Whether another transaction is begun or not is for the most part immaterial. (A method I have advocated to accomplish these would allow several transactions to be tied together if desired, in one session, but there would always be a "signature" or "affirmation" step for each, even if the initial authentication steps were recent enough to continue to use them.)
This needs hardware. However it can be done very cheaply; the hardware needed can in quantity be had for perhaps $3 a copy, possibly less, even as electronics. Paper approximations could be far cheaper still.
Better hope that it's secure. (Score:4, Insightful)
This seems like a GREAT way to lose all your money quickly.
I guess after it happens, you'll at least have something to really tweet about (as opposed to the fact you bought the new Brittney Spears album - no one cares!).
Re: (Score:2)
Are you sure about that? [kovideo.net]
Nobody loves me, but my mother,
And she could me jivin' too.
"See anything seriously wrong with this story?" (Score:5, Insightful)
How about the very idea of banking by twitter? What twit thought THAT one up??
I don't need Twitter for that -- I just call the bank and talk to a human.
Now we see why the banking industry is so screwed; it's run by morons.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Welcome to [...] telephone banking. Please enter your account number, followed by hash"
beep boop beep biip boop beep beep boop baap
"Please enter the fourth digit of your PIN"
boop
"Please enter the last digit of your post code"
beep
"In the word 'money', 'N' is in position three. In your password, what position is 'F' in?"
boop
"Your balance is £1234.56. Press 1 to..."
I feel more comfortable communicating with a robot.
(Having said that, I've only ever checked my balance. I'm not sure I'd do anything more t
uh oh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:uh oh (Score:5, Funny)
> Tweet: you're broke. :) Thank you for choosing stupidity banking.
And, Its gone... [vodpod.com]
Parent
tweet = text (for most part); step backwards (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You want to interact with your bank with a richer GUI than just text messages.
You mean, like show pictures of coins and bills for people whom are uneducated enough to not understand numerals or arithmetic?
Pffft (Score:5, Funny)
120 characters isn't big enough for my account balance.
Re:Pffft (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Pffft (Score:5, Funny)
He's from Zimbabwe you insensitive clod!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'd Prefer to Bank via MySpace (Score:5, Funny)
A new joke every day! (Score:4, Interesting)
Dear Vantage customer, our free joke service will send you a tweet every day with a new hilarious joke. Please tweet "#tran $1000 f1 t123456" to @myvcu to start!
What's so bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
Lots of OMGWTF!!! responses here, but having looked over the information they're providing (balances, holds, cleared checks, etc) and noting that there's no transmission of account numbers, PINs or other identifying information, I'm not seeing a major problem.
Just because you can have a knee-jerk reaction doesn't mean you should.
Re:What's so bad? (Score:5, Informative)
While the public messages get all the press, people who don't use twitter may not realize that you can send direct messages [twitter.com] on twitter, which are private. That's what this system is using.
Parent
Re:What's so bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
While the public messages get all the press, people who don't use twitter may not realize that you can send direct messages on twitter, which are private. That's what this system is using.
Private? Yes. Encrypted? Not so much.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I have a password requirement for this kind of information from my bank. I'm not sure I'd want these kinds of information in public space.
I imagine attackers would find this to be of high value:
1) You can reasonably identify and even physically locate Twitter users
2) This information tells you the status of their bank account, along with usage data that gives one the idea of when it is most ripe (after payday, before the bills come out automatically)
3) This information could be used to predict your physica
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me show you why this is a bad idea. Even if it is just 'check 153 cleared' or 'ATM: amt withdrawn 300 dollars'.
'Hi this is XYZ from ABC credit agency we see that you have 300 dollars cash right now in your hands and you owe us 2389 and 48 cents please swing by and pay us'.
Or how about
'Hey I know where Jim lives and he has 300 in cash on him right now lets go rob him'.
Or how about
'We can glean information about peoples bank accounts from their twitter accounts and then connect it thru advertising' 'Monk
Twitter from Nigeria! (Score:3, Funny)
Twitter + Banking (Score:2, Funny)
Twanking
I will be Twishing your details
Tweet money to my account (Score:2, Funny)
Tweet: SELECT All Money FROM All_Accounts TO My_Account NOW!
List of banks? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is there a list of banks that support this? Just so, you know, the intelligent people can move their cash OUT of these banks?
Not seeing the point (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see the point of the service, but then I don't use Twitter.
I also don't see the point of all the critics. Everyone alludes to how easily someone can steal your money with this. Ok... how?
I see a bunch of functionality where you can monitor your account status. The only thing I see that mentions affecting your account status is transfering money within your account. I guess that's enough that you could mess with someone, but where's the profit motive? You're going to commit wire fraud just to piss someone off?
Re:Not seeing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would you purposely introduce another entity between you and the bank? A decidedly non-secure entity.
Parent
likely outcome predicted 152 years ago (Score:2)
Harper's had the foresight to publish [google.com] an anthropomorphized metaphorical tale of the interactions between Twitter and banks, some years ago:
Don't forget about TwitPay (Score:3, Informative)
Site: https://twitpay.me/ [twitpay.me]
Basically you attach your twitter account to your paypal account, then you can send money to any other twitter user with a simple message to that effect.
Of course, the catch is that the money never actually gets transferred until you "settle" the account. It just keeps a running tally for everybody, then you settle and pay the whole shebang at once.
Judge Orders Twitter Acct. Disabled (Score:5, Insightful)
One more gateway for hackers (Score:2)
This sounds to me like "another hole in the wall".
Obligatory South Park Reference... (Score:3, Funny)