Obama Makes a Push To Add Time To the School Year 1073
N!NJA sends in a proposal that is sure to cause some discussion, especially among students and teachers. Obama and his education secretary say that American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage in comparison to other students around the globe. "'Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas,' the president said earlier this year. 'Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom.' 'Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today,' Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press. ... 'Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here,' Duncan told the AP. 'I want to just level the playing field.' ... Kids in the US spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the US on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days)."
Misleading stats (Score:5, Interesting)
Many kids in Asian countries also spend a lot of time at private institutes, after their regular classes.
Nevertheless, yes, American kids no not work hard enough to compete on a global level. The Economist had an article about this very issue [economist.com] a few months ago.
This is a Class Issue (Score:2, Interesting)
I would think that if anything is done in the US to extend schooling opportunities, it should keep this in mind. While a chicago south-sider is likely to get a lot of benefit from going to summer school, my child is likely not, because he engages in these sorts of activities, and I would not want it mandatory to pull him out of them.
higher test scores with a simple sacrafice-NCLB (Score:5, Interesting)
LEAVE SOME CHILDREN BEHIND
sorry- is that too callous?
http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=338&catid=13&subcatid=82 [factsanddetails.com]
" According to government statistics, 95 percent of all children start school but the drop out rate is high. Only 80 percent graduate from elementary school. In poor rural areas the enrollment is only about 60 percent, with only 70 percent completing the first four years of primary school. Fewer than 35 percent of China's youth enter high school, and of these the drop out rate is high."
individual circumstances aside, with limited resources, don't you think it far more likely that the really good students, somehow find a way to be among those who remain.
The evelopmentally disabled ones are the ones who fall by the wayside and do not continue their education to the point where these internationalized standard tests are taken?
drop the ten% worst performers results from the US kids "math and science tests" and you may find that they don't suck after all.. APPLES & APPLES COMPARISONS PLEASE!
Re:The real problem with education (Score:5, Interesting)
From everything I've read about it, it's very hard to fire a teacher. It's all but impossible to fire them if they are tenured. The only halfway pleasant and effective way to get rid of a teacher that needs the sack is to take them off any class they can do damage in and make their job as unpleasant as possible until they leave.
Have read several accounts of superintendents trying to fire a teacher that really needed to go. Typically involves over a year of gathering as much dirt as possible, building what would appear to be an "airtight case" against them, then spend the next four months fighting the union, school board, appeals, etc etc until you can finally shove them out, kicking and screaming. And then they just sue (usually more than once) and it just drags on and on. Altogether probably the most challenging aspect of being a superintendent. All you can do is try very hard to hire winners, and pray you don't get started in the hole.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not too long ago the state of Texas shortened its school year to reduce cooling costs/electricity usage. The electric usage difference in Texas public schools between the months of April and September is over 100 million kwh *(Spring/Summer Electricity Usage by TXU Public School Customers 1997 and 1998[3]). This does not include the bus rides for children in 100F+ degree heat in the summer months. Does a longer school year make ecological and financial sense in hotter climates?
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's on the internet, so it must be true? I see one flat statement being contradicted by another flat statement. Tell me - why should I believe Kappan magazine over the secretary of Education? Or heck, vice versa? All I know is that long summer breaks were common for a long time where I'm from - where a long time is end of 19th century. And they certainly could not have been influenced by american urban middle-class parents.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
And of course, one place I lived had a day off from school on the first day of hunting season every year. Gotta take time for the important things.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:5, Interesting)
Wolvenhaven's comment about budgets is on target; our small, rural Iowa district had to let 8 teachers go this spring because of declining tax inflows due to the economy. Funding teachers across more time would be a financial benefit to our family (my wife is a teacher in the district and doesn't receive compensation for when she's out of school not teaching as would be expected), but it'd cause the district to lose more teachers. In a small district, this would be devastating.
But there's another aspect some (including Obama) are missing. The United States is a highly diverse nation with a diverse workforce. Like a fool who would prescribe public transportation to replace all motor transportation in the U.S. -- a proposal that simply fails to understand the large spaces the U.S. covers and treats Wyoming like Berlin -- the educational system has similar heterogeneous aspects. During the summer months, our system is not to "send the kiddies to the field" as Obama's inept education administration official claims, but rather to supplement education in a highly diverse, non-governmental-decreed manner.
Yes, many kids get summer jobs, and there is considerable education for those working in a shop, grocery store or other light skill or service economy function given the probability that such students will be moving into this workforce upon graduation. In case you didn't notice the recent unemployment statistics, this demographic (16-24) now suffers over 50% unemployment, mostly due to the recession and the increase in minimum wages (which causes employers to substitute an unexperienced teen with an adult with experience for the same higher wage).
But many kids destined for college go off to specialized camps. My son spent 5 weeks of the summer at one of the top national debate institutes, working harder in the summer than he did during the year. Music camps, international travel, student summer foreign exchanges and local university summer programs all round out the options available for the college bound to receive much more intense and specialized education, necessary for their advancement in higher education. Obama's plan would replace that with more of the same -- as Gilles Deleuze would say, smoothing terrain by pushing more of the same hegemonic, institutional programme and eradicating diversity education that predominates summer break.
While it's not appropriate to debate this on the terms of "more education vs. kids sitting around watching tv" (those kids are also preparing for their future career through the choices being made), it is appropriate to debate this on the terms of whether we desire the heterogeneous workforce we're encouraging through the current model, or seek a more homogeneous model (ala "sameness"). Should further globalization be desired, as Obama's administration advances and his financial backer George Soros promotes, then perhaps the United States would be better served by creating more interchangeable service sector jobs. Given that both political parties desire a global model, Americans are less likely to be programmers, system engineers, architects, creative thinkers, product designers, etc.; even finance and legal professions are increasingly being offshored with great financial benefit to the global corporation. Preparing students for a career where they're part of a replaceable, worker-commodity workforce may be more appropriate in the long term, given the unified desire of Americans through the expression of those pro-globalization representatives they continue to elect.
Re:The problem ain't quantity... (Score:2, Interesting)
Trade school needs to be a real option (Score:4, Interesting)
Part of the problem isn't even parents being unrealistic, it is that the options are straight to the work force or university. Nothing else is ever presented as an option by anyone.
That was how it was for me. It was just assumed I was going to university. My intelligence and academic performance was such that university wasn't a problem... But that doesn't mean I should have gone. I do computer support. That is not a degree career, it's applied, not theoretical. While going to university worked out ok for me, I didn't need to. I should have gone to a trade school, however it just wasn't presented as an option.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess I live in some type of dream land.....
Singapore (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:education SHOULD be a monopoly (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:4, Interesting)
"If anything, shorten the school day/year so our people can go back to acquiring trade skills and progressing the nation;"
No, keep it the same but offer vocational classes without prejudice and don't use them as a dumping ground. An auto mechanic or weldor or plumber can have a very profitable career path and eventually own their own business, but this is largely ignored nowadays.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm pretty fucking sure that most parents know by the time their little brats are in middle (jr. highschool) school whether or not their child is college material, and should be adjusting their future goals accordingly instead of throwing on the blinders and being 110% supporting of their kids unrealistic goals.
I failed the 7th grade. My parents thought I was a failure, and so did I. If it were not for the GI Bill, I would never have gone to college.
It turns out that I just needed the right encouragement, which I got in the first year that I did at a state school. Last spring I finished a master's degree with high honors at one of the French speaking world's best universities, a language I barely understood when I started two years ago. I now am working as a research assistant and starting a Ph.d.
Middle school is too young to judge a person's academic capabilities.
A Kid's (7th Grade) Opinion (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Works for me (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Trade school needs to be a real option (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, we'd hate for poor people to have a chance at good jobs.
The same basic things could be proved by technical degrees, two-year degrees, and certifications, which can be obtained more cheaply. I have a four-year degree from a university, and I'm glad I took most of the classes I took for my own benefit. But I don't know why an employer should care about some of them.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
I didn't read TFA, but I apparently disagree with most of the responses, which seem to be summarized as:"No way!"
I think that the school day should be longer, even if just to get people accustomed to a 40(+) hour work week. Even if there aren't any additional regular classes, just having "homework" done in required "study hall" would be an improvement. In my mind, the idea of having something extra to do at home after you're done with the school day should be less common (e.g. a big book report, once a quarter or so per class). That would be similar to "crunch time" at work -- near shipping a product, when people work weekends/late.
Yes, a lot of that could be simulated by parents who make their kids do their homework right when they get home (and/or kids with that ambition on their own -- I didn't have that).
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm currently a sophomore in high school and I'm taking two math classes (Geometry and Algebra II; I'm trying to catch up) with two different teachers.
I feel like I'm learning much more in Geometry than in Algebra II. In Geometry, the average class consists of first taking notes, with the teacher actually explaining why the math works. Then, we will do a worksheet or something. We almost never have homework (maybe we will have to finish something we started in class if it's not done before the end of class) and I've yet to use my book at all.
But in Algebra II, it's different. First, we check our homework. If someone doesn't understand a problem, the teacher will do it on the overhead without really explaining anything. Then she will either collect it to be graded, just check to see if we have it, or give us a quiz on it. Or maybe we'll have a drill. Then, we're given an assignment that will last until the end of the class. For homework, we get the next two sections in the book, the last half of what we just learned and the first half of what we're going to learn the next class.
I feel like I've barely learned anything in Algebra II, and what I have learned, I don't have a very good understanding of because we rushed through it in class. But in Geometry, I'm doing great and I understand everything very well.
tl;dr: Some teachers don't put in as much effort as others.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:4, Interesting)
The presidents kids go to a private school where any legislation affecting school hours wouldn't apply.
Re:How is the amount of time in school measured? (Score:1, Interesting)
The problem isn't hours spent studying so much as motivation. The stereotype for asian students (however accurate) is that they get pushed by their parents close to their academic limit. Contrast with the stereotype for American students being sports-centric and studying just enough to get those C's and D's needed to stay on the team.
My wife (who is also American) teaches at a private University here in Tokyo. You know what Japanese college kids are like? They are sports-centric and study just enough to get the equivalent of C's and D's.
Students don't get pushed to their academic limit, they get pushed to study for a standardized test. Their grades, other than pass/fail, mean nothing. There is no notion of a GPA here. All that matters is that you passed your classes and whether you got a good score on the standardized test.
And before college, failing a class isn't even an option. No matter what they do, they are guaranteed to be promoted to the next grade. The university she works at has to have a training program for all foreign teachers to lower their expectations and still they have a horrible retention rate. The kids here have no idea what learning is. They don't care. All they do is cram for a standardized test so they can get into a good company. It is the company's job to train/educate people.
There is a whole industry here, including prep materials and cram schools, to help kids get the right answers on those standardized tests. The tests are the only things that matter. There is no critical thinking, there is no understanding. No one ever asks "why?" about anything.
But, because they get good scores on the standardized tests they do dutifully crammed for, people in the U.S. hold up Japan as a model for education reform.
You want to know what "No Child Left Behind" is going to produce? The same thing it has in Japan: a bunch of uneducated, uninterested, uncritical sheep...who got really good scores on a test.
try spending a singlday in the classroom mr. obama (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm in my 13th year of reaching. It would help if 1) parents cared about their kids education as much as they cared about their team sports, 2) schools cared about education as much as team sports, 3) kids didn't have unrealistic expectations of the classroom being an entertainment venue (good luck at work) and 4) more kids could actually speak English.
Extra days will solve none of these problems.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Education CHANGE that we do need (Score:4, Interesting)
0) The world is progressing. Why is it that when they get close we think we need to go higher? At some point there should be a reasonable limit to what education can do alone. Language, culture, family, become more important as education gets more "equal". It'll never be a level where one can completely rule it out and only look at other factors-- this is in the realm of soft science. Could be ours is the best already but the other factors are knocking it down... (not probable; just making a point.)
1) PUBLIC schools should be funded by the number of students, federally without any strings other than they must be public schools. This will lower the taxes we have on shelter (aka property tax or renter's included property tax.) It will increase income tax; however, it is NOT equitable to punish kids by underfunding their schools simply because they are located in a poorer area. (I'm not talking inner city either, we have poor rural and rich rural depending on what properties are in that area and local tax codes.)
2) Technology in education is unproven. it needs more pilot programs and less political stumping. The public is part of the whole gaming of the numbers system we have. Test scores are a poor measure; any systematic measurement system is going to get hacked by people like win98 on an open network. Other nations measure scores differently; they also filter out kids-- our system accepts everybody. My city's schools do about as well as the rich suburban schools -- but have less money and TONS of disadvantaged kids of every kind to deal with.
3) Simply BEING A STUDENT does not make you an expert in education. Its like saying you can advise airplane design because you ride on jets. There is serious work done on learning, the brain etc. in academic institutions and by profession educators already. But forget that, a couple stats make us look bad so lets ship the kids off to more schooling and give them all laptops! Just how long have we known its better for children to have different school hours than we do now? We still have the same hours-- to keep the parents happy and their dreams of their kid getting that sports scholarship they didn't get. (college funding being a separate issue best solved instead of the lotto scholarship mess. Don't expect that CHANGE since college loans handle more money than the credit card industry!)
4) Children, like all mammals LEARN and develop by playing. Sure, TV robs them of this--- thats not the fed's business; if parents suck. (unless you are in the UK...where they want to monitor parents!) I LEARNED far more things in the summer that were useful in the "real world" than I did in school. I didn't have to work on a farm, but I worked on other things and learned, played, and developed my imagination. Many of my peers went to "camps" so they'd get an edge the next school year while the flunkies went to catch up so they'd not have to drop a grade.
5) Just HOW long should kids be in school? how about some REAL numbers? We already know health wise its better to take a long nap in the middle of the day but other than a few countries nobody does that... (BTW, the WTO is pressuring those countries to change their ways.)
6) America rose to the top (FYI we are not there anymore) and went to the moon with people who didn't have technology or even went to those "shameful" rural schools where 1-6 grades were in 1 room with the same teacher. Now we can't do math without a calculator-- even then we can't do math. My father had a shooting range in the basement of his high school; kept a gun at school too! Yes, this points to cultural degradation-- but THAT is the point! The real big issues are the elephants in the room nobody dares mention! I do credit Obama a bit having touched on a few... I am not saying we need to go back to those idealized times and "get off my lawn!" More social science is needed.
7) American kids are F***'d up. School psychologists are needed. #1 problem for any student is mental. We expect teachers to do everything and moder
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm atypical, and spent 9 years out before coming back. (I don't count the Masters, because I did it part-time, while working.) My observations:
1) The pay here sucks. But it's enough to get by on.
2) The lack of responsibility is AWESOME! If I get drunk and don't go to class/work tomorrow, nobody gives a shit. If I did that in the real world, I'd be in all sorts of trouble. My stress level is pretty much flat compared to actually working real jobs. I no longer have to deal with stupid people. (Well, it's at least two orders of magnitude less stupid people here.)
3) There's shit to do in grad school. In the real world, not so much. Having to get to bed on time, sober, to get to work sucks. Putting in overtime sucks. Being on call sucks. Kids, a mortgage, and a car loan mean you don't get to have much fun. Commuting really sucks.
Seriously - stay in grad school as long as you can. I'm having more fun than I've had in years, on less than half the money. As long as you know not to take grad school seriously, it's all good. It's just a big fat hoop you have to get around to jumping through.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
If everybody told their kids that, there would be no fucking NASA scientists, or neurosurgeons, etc.
Re:Trade school needs to be a real option (Score:3, Interesting)
Two things:
1. You have to start somewhere. No one but the super-gifted come out of college and start inventing new algorithms or designing spaceships. In the old days, you were expected to apprentice for years (in some cases, decades) before being allowed to actually practice your craft.
2. Where is your motivation? What are you doing to advance your knowledge and experience? If the answer is, "nothing," then yes, you did waste your time in university and should look forward to a long comfortable career in technical support.
Make it up with volume (Score:3, Interesting)
Our schools don't teach very well, so let's fix it by making students sit in badly run schools for more hours. That will do it.
My kids are home-schooled. It's the best thing we've ever done. When I think of all the hours of my life I wasted scribbling on meaningless dittos I feel so jealous of the life my kids have. They do school work for 3 hours a day, really do the work. Then they work on their choice of project for a couple of hours, then they have all the rest of the day to play with other home-schooled kids. All three of my kids are approximately 2 years ahead of kids their age in the local public school, which is among the highest ranked in the country.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:1, Interesting)
US students spend a greater total amount of time in school than those students in countries that outperform the US. However, students outside the US do not have a long break during the summer. Knowledge gained during the US school year is atrophied during the long break. Given any non trivial skill, once you've attained it, you must remain in practice to maintain it.
So, it is the continuity of school, not the total amount of time, that matters.
-
Paul K.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly: it's cultural. The USA is never going to excel at math, because it simply isn't rewarded, whereas sports achievement is.
If we really wanted to improve education, we'd make separate schools, so the studious kids can go to one school by themselves and excel before they head to college, and everyone else can go to a different school and play sports and take basic classes where they learn how to manage a bank account, before they're released into the world of work.
Re:Trade school needs to be a real option (Score:1, Interesting)
I just wanted to add here: I have a friend who spend 4-6 years going part time to a junior college to get a degree in culinary arts, having had a passion for cooking and being told it could lead to a well paying career over time. Long story short, after graduation, despite his skill he got used as a 'temp' at about 6 different places while their 'regulars' were on vacation, finally through a series of events landing at trucking school, and after 3 jobs doing short haul trucking in construction, he's making 50-100k a year, depending on how much is going on (and this has been SINCE the economy tanked.). Furthermore he was telling me about a lot of the other 'specialist' type jobs, like pump owner/operator for concrete, and intern. The interns were making 15/hr hauling the hoses out, and doing cleanup when the job was done and the operators were making upwards of 100k a year since it was a specialty job, without any formal education as I remember it (I'm not sure there are certifications and such needed, but given that you're just pumping it out for someone else, probably not). His point was that there are *TONS* of jobs out there, if you know the fields, that pay just as much or *MORE* than white collar college educated jobs with little or not prior experience required. Many of them will require getting dirty, or putting stress on your body, which you may or may not be able to handle, but given the financial incentive and wise investment, could see you retired in half the time you'd have spent doing a while collar job.
Outsource Education to China or India.... (Score:5, Interesting)
It would cost only 3,000 dollars a year to educate a child in China, plus air fare both ways for summer break would be a little over 4,500.00 dollars.
In Washington D.C. taxpayers pay 10,000 per child. Clearly the best solution is outsourcing. Plus punishment can be handed out byt the Red Chinese, when you kid gets suspended they get sent to a weeklong shift in a factory. It lowers labor cost and kids learn discipline and when they get back they will respect their elders, RESPECT THEIR ELDERS!!!!!!!
Plus during the School year you won't have young punks all over town, instead they will be in another country wrecking that place up. DOUBLE WIN-WIN
Now get off my damn lawn you whippersnappers!!!
It's not because of bad scores (Score:2, Interesting)
that Obama wants to increase hours, its in order to lower the influence of the parents on their children. Clinton has for a long time opposed "unregulated child-rearing". In general the government would prefer more time with your kids.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:5, Interesting)
No, most of the rest are normal students who happen to play baseball or soccer after school.
At my high school, enrollment in AP courses correlated highly with participation in athletics. The football team was pretty much filled with top students.
It's all in how you set up your program. Academic requirements to participate in athletics go a long way.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:1, Interesting)
I am afraid that you may indeed live in some type of dream land.
Where I live, the local high school has a separate 9th grade set of buildings just to keep the older kids away from the 9th graders. Their justification, supported by statistics: reduced pregnancy rate in 9th grade girls. And it was a DRAMATIC drop from when they moved from the old campus in which the 9th graders were in the same building as the 10th-12th graders.
I have a better idea... (Score:3, Interesting)
How about requiring that the President of the United States actually perform the duties of the President at least 75 percent of the time or more?
You know, instead of endless T.V. interviews, campaigning disguised as promoting "health care", presentation to get the Olympics awarded to Chicago, etc.
Re:Bad Idea (Score:3, Interesting)
The long and short of it? He has ADHD but without the typical hyperactivity component. Did we choose to medicate him? Yes, but only after carefully consulting with a number of specialists, and we have switched his medications numerous time to try to find the right formulation. There's a common perception out there that these kids get put on sedatives--that's not true. Kids with ADHD are typically prescribed stimulants that help their higher nervous system functions to be better able to execute control. We would not accept any medication that would sedate our child, or put him in any form of mild stupor. As we've switched meds, we've stayed in close contact with his teachers, to make sure he is not "drugged out" all day.
It was a tough choice to make (not only giving our child a label, but opting to use meds), but it was a choice made for the benefit of our child. I'll be the first to tell you that meds are overprescribed to a lot of kids who don't really need them, but just ask you to remember that some kids, like my son, do need them to function well. I know that they will help him, because I started taking stimulants for ADHD as an adult. I never imagined that I could have such a condition (I pictured kids would could never stay on task or would daydream constantly--I learned that hyperfocusing is a common symptom, and that above average intelligence can mask {compensate for} the condition so that it often goes undetected in such cases), but learned how much better I could be at controlling my task management and other executive functions when taking my meds.
Cheers! and best regards to you.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Except for those who enjoy/excel at both athletics and other activities, and go on to have productive lives while not being a lardass/100 lb weakling.
What I hate most about the culture that has grown around schools is how it encourages this antagonism between physical and mental development. It is a good thing to be smart, well read, and intellectual. It is *also* a good thing to be in good shape, athletic, and physically attractive! Why do we encourage this false dichotomy?
I was co-valedictorian of my high school. I also lettered three years in a varsity sport, would have play another had it not interfered with band, and now play sports recreationally to go along with my well-paying programming job. All of my nerdy/intellectual friends in high school played sports every year until they graduated - I was amazed when I got to engineering college that the stereotypes of nerds who had never done anything physical actually existed! We weren't anything special physically - we just played for fun. Sometimes serious fun, but working hard for an achievement and competing are rewards in their own right.
Sorry, I will agree 100% that American culture does not value and promote educational excellence well enough, but I in no way believe that we have to devalue athletic achievement to change this.
Re:Wrong Approach, Try Again Mr. President.... (Score:3, Interesting)
The argument is for a longer school year, and not necessarily more hours in school.
According to the article, I see a mixed plethora of information regarding possible 'improvements to the school year. Let's see some of them:
Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools.
Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day.
Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day
Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.
and finally:
"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."
So from the content above (and yes, there are very many more examples discussed but I don't feel like quoting the whole article) it appears that a variety of solutions are both being given as examples to the problem of kids spending too little time in school. Some parts of the article spend time discussing the benefits and drawbacks of adding hours onto the end of the school day. They last quote by the Secretary of Education shows that. Other discussions center around schools that are trying to lessen the time between terms by shortening summer breaks and going to a year round schedule with no mention of actually increasing the amount of yearly time spent in the classroom. Frankly, that system sounds very beneficial for reasons you pointed out:
Think about that for a minute, especially on how it affects knowledge retention.
Now if you will reread my original post, you will note that, while passionate, the criticisms were not unfounded based on the content of the article. The article was wishy-washy enough to say, "Here are how some schools are adding time or rescheduling their classes, this should happen nation-wide but we haven't made a decision on how to do so yet."
My point was that, the one option of adding more hours to the classroom day was not the best option. There are serious deficiencies in American education. We try to teach using an arbitrary rewards system (grades) which appeals to very little of the student population and teaches them to jump through hoops rather than learn. We stifle curiosity and questioning by genuinely interested students so that teachers can maintain a pre-scheduled pace to ensure that the contents of chapters X through Y are covered before standardized test time. Rather than actually try to help students gain some insight and context on what they are learning, many teachers (not all) blow over them in the name of an arbitrary schedule that they decide. Finally, I flamed the fact that high school and grammar school teachers are some of the most underpaid shapers of society. Frankly, they are shapers of society. They help instill values and knowledge in the youth of our world who, one day, will lead the world. This is a very important role to play in society and one that comes with great responsibility. I was trying to point out that the brightest, best, and most capable indivi
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
Given this is /. so many people here are probably vitims of jocks, there will be bias against us. However, student athletes are very successful, in fact when I was doing College sports, most of my peers had 3.5+ GPAs. In HS (smaller HS) the majority of top athletes in my school were honor roll. Not because of the coach putting pressure on teachers but because the coach puts pressure on the athletes. You GPA drops you don't play. Same in college. But there are extremes on both sides, the meathead jock, and the lazy non-athlete that give bad names to both. But I would contend that the majority of student athletes are academically sound.
Re:Waste MORE time!? (Score:3, Interesting)
If only there were some way to play athletics for fun, instead of for profit. Oh wait. That's what everyone in high school does.
I agree there are some people talented enough to fall into the pro trap (especially on television), but for the most part, people in my (public) high school did sports just to have something to do.
What price a dream? (Score:3, Interesting)
What you are saying is that someone who wants more than anything else to be a professional football player should abandon his dreams, give up, and become a good little productive unit.
Re:Music training and physical fitness help the br (Score:3, Interesting)
For PE, there is a big difference between having everyone run laps for an hour during school and spending thousands every year for the dozen students hand picked for football. If you are going to spend as much on the chess team, robotics team, starcraft team (thats a joke btw), and math club the more power to you. You live in a very rich school district. Otherwise, why are we spending public funds so a small group can have fun at the expense of everyone else? O I remember, because thats the New America...