An anonymous reader writes "Yesterday, Chicago lost its bid for the 2016 Olympics (which went to Rio de Janeiro instead), and it's looking very likely that US border procedures were one of the main factors which knocked Chicago out of the race: 'Among the toughest questions posed to the Chicago bid team this week in Copenhagen was one that raised the issue of what kind of welcome foreigners would get from airport officials when they arrived in this country to attend the Games. Syed Shahid Ali, an I.O.C. member from Pakistan, in the question-and-answer session following Chicago's official presentation, pointed out that entering the United States can be "a rather harrowing experience." ... The exchange underscores what tourism officials here have been saying for years about the sometimes rigorous entry process for foreigners, which they see as a deterrent to tourism.'"
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
We once took pride in saying we were a melting pot of nations (racism aside). Now we're about the same, except we're a melting pot of xenophobes (maybe not at the citizen level, but definitely at the administrative/political level.
Sad to see the great American nation turn from something I was once very proud of to one that I've considered, quite a few times, to up and leave.
It doesn't surprise me. I'm from the UK, and "Visiting the US" was always one of those things on my life's "to-do" list - seeing New York, going to the West Coast, visiting friends in Washington state, maybe even driving Route 66 one day if I had money enough and time.
But now? Well, I've heard enough horror stories by now from friends and colleagues about entering the USA that, despite me having no criminal convictions whatsoever, I'm afraid it ain't on my "to-do" list any more.
And let me tell you, if people from the UK are telling you that your border-control is unwelcoming, then it must be! I also live in the UK. You can bounce around Europe crossing borders with little more than a wave of your passport and a friendly nod. Then when you come back to the UK, it's a bit of a shock. Most of the EU find Britain rather silly with how worked up about its borders it gets, given that the rest of it manages with less pomp *and* has direct land passage to outside countries. I've also heard some strong complaints from people I know about entering the US. Aren't they asking for retinal scans or fingerprints in some places, now?
entering the US. Aren't they asking for retinal scans or fingerprints in some places, now?
no. not some places. Every entry point takes fingerprints of every visitor who is not a US Citizen or legal US Resident.
There is also some pain in the ass procedure that people have to do online. 24 hours before they get on the plane.
The US has just totally lost it both on the entry procedures AND airport security. The only place where the airport security is more of a useless pain in the ass is the UK, but it is a close race. The UK and the US seem to be competing with each other on who can make the most worthless security procedures.
I think it was in Gatwick, I was passing through the airport and I noticed that you could purchase a "token" for an express passage. When you used this token, it skips one of the checkpoints.
This was not so much of a security checkpoint, but a cash-grab checkpoint. I had my computer in my arm and a wheeling suitcase, which sums up to two pieces of luggage. This not only exceeds airline baggage allowance, but it violates a security policy.
Fortunately, there was a coffee shop next to the entry point, so I deeked out the lady working security and had a coffee while thinking about how to squeeze my laptop into my carry-on.
She was working alone and couldn't do much when she was trying to explain the one-bag policy. It seemed lots of people could slip past her, some had more than one bag.
So I waited for somebody to get stopped...
... then I slipped through the turnstile.
Next time, I pay for the token.
Of course reporting this or complaining about this could get me banned from flights and labelled a terrorist.
According to Wikipedia, ETA has killed "over 800 individuals" since 1968 and the IRA has killed "around 1,100 members of the British security forces, and around 630 civilians" since 1969. On that measure having the IRA is twice as bad as having ETA.
You'll have to explain to us who the "crazy fuckers" are. Because I seem to remember it was a group of mostly Saudi's who happened to be fundamentalists (notice how I separate the two?!) that decided it would be a good idea to hijack our airplanes and ram them into our buildings.
This wasn't the work of a government who sent an army after us. This isn't WW3.
It was a group of sick individuals who meant to destroy us to fulfill their _personal_ and fundamentalist religious ideals.
This is _not_ how to act after a _small_ group of people do something terrible.
Lets also enact broad stroke laws any time a single child gets hurt. Oh wait. God damnit.
"The most ridiculous interview I heard with my own ears:
Interviewer: "What did you have this morning as breakfast?"
Applicant: "Bread." I: "Nothing else?"
Applicant: "No."
Interviewer: "According to American law, we cannot grant you a visa."
Applicant: "....". I was sitting beside the person when he was rejected. You know, it is funny to reject someone according American law just because he only had bread in the morning."
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
-jcr
I flew 8 hours from London to Dallas this year. On arrival, I then waited 2 hours at the airport, along with about 300 other aliens, while sullen border guards slowly checked passports, took photos and fingerprints (this often took several attempts per person), and asked seemingly innocent questions in slow, menacing voices. If I didn't know better, I would have thought they'd been trained in military interrogation techniques.
US immigration and security go beyond being serious to the point that they come across as rude and unhelpful.
UK airport security have pulled me aside for a random search whilst joking that it was due to the sports team jersey I was wearing. On a quiet day arriving in amsterdam I've had a guy call over his supervisor just so they could make make stern faces make me worry and then crack a joke about my passport photo. I've chatted with Polish boarder guards about their visits to my home country and had a French immigration officer laugh at my appalling French.
Entering the US I've see people infuriated by officers who will tell them only that they have filled in the wrong green form, or filled the right one incorrectly but will offer no more help to non-english speaking visitors then to send them back to the back of the line. I've waited hours whilst people attempt to have their fingerprints scanned whilst having orders barked at them because they misunderstood the instructions. Most immigration officers I've encountered try to ask questions in a friendly conversational style but in the US it's a cross between an interrogation and a telemarketing script. After a few visits you learn the keywords for your answers and they let you through no problem!
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday October 03, @08:22AM (#29626125)
...but you ain't gettin' my fingerprints for the privilege. What am I, a criminal? Reform your system, and you'll see an increase in tourism, with all the good that that does your economy.
I'm a peaceful Norwegian with two (many years ago) convictions for possession of small amounts (1-2 joints) of marihuana.
My grandmother wants to take me to visit our family in Boston next year, and I'm not looking forward to it at all because of one thing only: US border control and visa stupidity.
The US is the only country in the world to care about a stupid posession misdemeanor - I could go anywhere else without issue at all..
The US is the only country in the world to care about a stupid posession misdemeanor - I could go anywhere else without issue at all..
And yet Canada won't let Americans in who have a DUI (also a misdemeanor here in MN at least and no, I've never had a DUI). I don't agree with the border policies in place in the US but I also don't think your comment is as insightful as others believe it to be either.
A DUI is something that carries the stigma of the high probability of the offender killing themselves or someone else. Having a joint is literally not a crime to anyone, and yet which one gets American nuts in a twist?
The disconnect in moral reasoning is getting ridiculous.
Even without any sort of criminal record it's not a pleasant experience to enter the US, even as a Norwegian citizen entering via Canada. This May the robots routed me back form BSDCan [bsdcan.org] (in Ottawa) through Washington, DC. It's possible that the fact that I did not apply for a visa (this was transit only, planning to stay on the ground roughly one hour between flights) complicated things a bit.
As it turned out, in addition to the ordinary three forms (with more or less the same info in all of them) I needed to fill in a separate 'visa waiver form' (identical to at least two of the other forms in all other things than paper thickness, sheet size, color of paper and print and font) before getting to the fingerprinting, retina scanning and oral examination to check the validity of the information that I'd filled in, performed by a border guard who seemed to have been trained to appear hostile but was obviously monumentally bored by the whole process.
This was after clearing the ordinary pre-boarding security theatre, mind you. And of course I would need to pick up the boarding passes for my connecting flights at the Washington, DC airport. That meant getting from one end of the airport to the other to pick up boarding passes and clearing another full act of security theatre in order to get back to where I could board the transatlantic flight. I did make my connecting fligh, running pretty much all the way except for the time spent lining up for the various security checks on the way.
So yes, I can believe in a theory that US border control was a factor in deciding to place the next Olympics elsewhere.
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday October 03, @08:26AM (#29626155)
I thought that was the whole point.
What's that? They're for stopping TERRORISM, you say? Naaaaah, can't be.
(I once went one a round-the-world holiday. At Fiji's passport control, they gave us garlands, and serenaded us with guitars; at US passport control they growled at us.)
I've read it years ago that the USA is losing billions per year in tourism after the 9/11 border restrictions.
The Olympics became a disgustingly commercial event for the past few decades and corporations are going to put pressure towards a location where prospective visitors aren't put off by over the top security measures...
The next time someone asks what's the harm in the security theatre, point them towards the loss of tourism. I have to say I'm one of those people who deeply resent the invasive fingerprint taking entrance to the USA. It's a shame that stupid border procedures prevent me from visiting an otherwise beautiful country...
Indeed, not to mention the rise of Brazil in the world in general (much like China before it) and the chance to finally have one in South America now there's a country competent enough to make it work. Plus the better weather, plus it's cheaper to go to, plus you don't need crazy-priced "Platinum (US Only)" grade medical and lawsuit travel insurance, plus how awesome a Brazillian opening and closing ceremony will be, plus America has had it relatively recently, and on and on.
I can give you a personal example of this - my father is a 76-year old western european citizen, and has been to the US easily a hundred times and was a US resident for over a decade. And as a merchant, he's spent easily many hundred of thousands on goods in the US over the past 40 years. Last Christmas, he came over to see us, and at the local International Airport he was pulled aside, patted down, his baggage and items gone over in detail, and interrogated for 20 minutes. Why? No reason given. As a result, he doesn't want to come to the US at all any more, so we have to go visit in Europe or rendezvous in another 3rd country. Yea, I know, we get to go to Europe more often, but it's a lot more expensive & difficult to coordinate schedules and take the family than to have one person travel here.
I spent a lot of last year overseas on projects - and I heard over and over again from people that no longer think it's worth it to come to the US for shows/conferences/travel because of the travel restrictions and attitude toward non-US citizens by customs and immigration.
I live in London, where just about anyone you ask who lives here will tell you they don't want the games, never wanted the games, and are angry that money to fund the building of venues and facilities is being taken from National Lottery funds and (possibly) direct taxation.
Mileage varies considerably in the short and long-term economic and social effects [google.com] of hosting an Olympics. London doesn't need it, and Chicago may well not have done either.
The London Olympics have epic potential for showcasing the UK. The cycling events should all be on the pot-holed, speed-bumped, litter-filled streets and have to comply with all road laws, the weight lifters would all be subject to health and safety legislation, as would the hammer and javelin throwers. Runners would struggle down the uneven, excrement-smeared pavements, dodging around the lamp-posts, bollards and fencing etc.
From all those cities listed in the report linked above, only Athens seems to have failed to properly exploit the effect of hosting the Olympic Games. All other cites (Barcelona, Atlanta, Sidney, Beijing) reported nothing but growth.
London doesn't need it, and Chicago may well not have done either.
Nonsense. A global metropolis that can say "I'll pass" to billions invested in the infrastructure, millions of visitors and billions of pounds/dollars/euros spent by everyone? No such place on this planet. The effect on the crime and pollution alone (clean streets) is worth the trouble for the average Tom, Dick and Harry. Those must be some crazy conservative xenophobes you talked to. Not wanting money during a global economic crisis. Mad as bicycles that lot.
Speaking as a long-time "Sidney" resident, I gotta say we were all a bit annoyed by the whole damned thing too, the fact they ripped up half the CBD, the endless news stories, the drama bombs, the wasted money, the roads that were all going to be closed, and all the general getting ready crap. People were wearing "Fuck The Olympics" shirts openly in the streets.
And then the games started.
And it was a fucking awesome enormous city wide party that lasted for 2-3 weeks, all the horrible concrete repeatedly torn up footpaths had been replaced with highly skatable and cable-friendly slate all through the centre city, there were no building sites anywhere, the pubs and bars were all full, and it just generally kicked ass.
While I don't by any means underestimate the ability of Londoners to put a negative light on something, I have this suspicion that it's the same for every city that hosts it. A sort of preparation and drama filled pregnancy, filled with hormonal outbursts and morning sickness.
Wait till the games actually start, it will be a different place.
I'm grateful for the men and women who patrol our borders. If this report is true, their hard work has kept us safe from another potential disaster: Having to endure 7 years of unrelenting hype, having to witness multiple late and overbudget Stalinesque construction projects, all capped off by an orgy of hypocritical corporate-sponsored "amateur" contests and overblown nationalism. Good job!
Really, is it all that ironic that the IOC would consider our immigration and the recent crime statistics as reasons to not come here over RIO ? For me at least, I can see their point on a few issues :
1) The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate when measured against citizen head count to incarcerated or otherwise restricted status citizenry (Parole/Probation) of ANY country in the world.
2) A convicted U.S. felon can still travel internationally to other countries, yet the U.S. refuses to consider allowing another country's citizens to arrive here for what constitutes a misdemeanor or less, regardless of time passed
3) Getting back into the country as a citzen or "worse" GC or other status holder is worse than painful if singled out for secondary. I am non-white and get profiled every time I come back, despite having served and having no "reasons" to be flagged other than my last name which is clearly non-american originated.
4) While requiring a VISA or fingerprinting itself is not counter-intuitive to travel, the manner and inconsistency is. Having said that, for being touted as "the land of the free" and "a shining beacon of democracy" is ironic itself when our policies at the border (or even non-border with the TSA and Border Agents) clearly indicate that we are profiling even inside our borders. How do you explain roving road blocks for "immigration" checks just because you happen to be on a road within 100 miles of a border....
5) To host in Chicago, we'd be doing the same things we did in Atlanta. We'd be buying the homeless once again a 1-way ticket to nowhere (or anywhere but "here"), we'd be tearing down projects and displacing people/families to make way for the Olympic Village, and you can be damn sure that the average "Chicagoan" (sp?) would not be able to even get into the venues, much less afford the cost of the tickets being hosted in their own city. This happened in Atlanta where I live in 1996....
6) We just had the summit in Pittsburgh that was shameful in the way it's citizenry were treated as well as most of the peaceful demonstrators. Beatings, the use of a sound cannon and extensive use of tear gas, etc had me thinking initially this was some other country where liberty and democracy/freedom of speech was supressed.... Turns out I was right, but had the wrong country in mind, which was depressing and downright scary
The list could go on with examples, but it would be unfair to clutter the Slashdot database with further examples that are easily googled.
I do love my country and the people in it for the most part, but I'd be lying if I said I believed 95% of the hype that our Tourism Board spews out to attract visitors. I think the loss of tourism and downturn in visitors since we enacted the failed Patriot Act speaks volumes, the rest of the tidbits I shared just add further fuel to the reasons why those who would like to see us (the U.S.) just stay the hell away.
Suffice it to say in my opinion that on the one hand we have U.S. which has clearly become a very dim shadow of itself and the other hand we're trying to portray ourselves, or at least that's my impression as a U.S. Citizen.....
I've organized some international events, and US border control policies and visa requirements are a big argument against holding them in the US.
Border control in Europe is very simple in my experience; people check whether your passport is on a list, and if it's not, they just wave you through. No fingerprinting, photographs, long lines, tricky questions, pre-registration, or interrogation booths. And despite that, Europe seems to have been doing no worse on terrorism or illegal immigration than the US.
My wife has permanent residency here in the US and I am a citizen . We used to be able to go through border control together and she was treated quite well. Now, she has to be fingerprinted (the fact that her fingerprints are already on file with immigration, has been through the interview process for permanent residency seem to make no difference).
I have permanent residency in her country, Singapore, as well. When we enter or exit Singapore, its quick and easy. Even before I had PR status, it was easier to get in and out of the country as a tourist than it was to get in and out of the US as a citizen. Land of the Free, my ass.
They are concerned about what US Customs would do to foreigners, they should look at what they do to citizens. I was born and raised in the states, and still live in a state near a border. I recently crossed back into the states (by car) after 5 days in a neighboring country. I pulled up to customs and had to turn off my car and hand my keys to a leather-gloved customs officer so he could search my trunk, while I stayed in my car. I was not allowed to see what he was doing; he could have easily taken items from my trunk or placed items in my trunk without my knowing it. Eventually they cleared me but offered no explanation for what they were doing.
I have had similar experiences in the past as well, I once had to pull from the customs booth to the "additional screening" building (single car garage with doors on both ends) where I had to empty my trunk for a customs agent.
So I can't say I'm surprised if the security theater here was a deciding factor against having another Olympics here. Certainly our procedures have changed a fair bit since 1996.
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday October 03, @09:57AM (#29626941)
Once on a flight from Australia to Canada, my plane stopped to refuel at Hawaii airport.
When we were about an hour out approaching Hawaii, the flight attendants came around with US immigration cards for us to fill out. I was completely baffled and started to get seriously worried that I was on the wrong flight or some shit. I said to the attendant "But, we're going to Vancouver, right?". She replied "Yes, I'm sorry, everyone has to fill out a US immigration card". She seemed kinda puzzled by the whole thing too.
Not entirely put at ease, I started filling out the form, which was probably the most poorly laid-out and silliest form I've ever encountered in my life. Am I affiliated with the Nazi party? WTF is the matter with these people? I felt like I was being interrogated like a criminal suspect. Do I intend to commit acts of terrorism against the United States? Well right up until I was forced to fill out that form, I would have categorically said "no", but afterwards I have to admit my inclinations were changing in that regard.
My favourite question was "Why do you wish to enter the United States". I wrote down the only reasonable answer under the circumstances: "I don't".
So we all got off the plane, milled around Hawaii airport in swelteringly humid conditions for TWO HOURS, were forced to remove our shoes and finally, when it was my turn to meet the immigration official and hand in my stupid form, she looked at my answers, scowled at me and said "What does this mean, 'I don't'?".
I'm totally fucking serious. That's what she said.
I replied "It means just what it says. I don't wish to enter the United States."
She said, I shit you not, "Well why are you here then?".
Wow. Just... wow. Here is a person whose job it is to enforce immigration policy and she doesn't even know that they force transit passengers who are not bound for the US to go through immigration? I feel an intense fury at the level of stupidity on display, but I clench my teeth and force myself to stay calm. After all, I don't want to get on the wrong side of this person/vegetable and get a finger stuck up my ass for my trouble.
After thinking for a moment about how I can explain the situation to a person of such... limited mental faculty, I say "I'm going to Vancouver. My plane is refuelling here and apparently that means we have to go through US immigration?"
She levelling her blank stare at me for a few seconds, then shuffled some papers around while I stood there wondering what the hell kind of Twilight Zone bullshit I'd just wandered into. Then she stamped my passport, stapled the stupid form to it, muttered something at me and let me through. I had successfully visited the United States! Absent any consent or intention to do so! After all, it's not like travellers actually know which countries they want to go to. Better decide these things for them.
I then got back on my plane, sat in the exact same seat I had occupied two hours earlier, and we made our way to Vancouver.
When we arrived at Vancouver airport, a nice man in a suit asked me if I was a Canadian resident. I said "no" and with a polite "this way please sir" he directed me to the non-residents line. After waiting in the queue for about 5 minutes, the guy at the desk said "Oh you're from Australia. What brings you to Canada?" I said "Just here on holiday.". He asked "Gonna do any skiing while you're here?". I said "Maybe." He said "Cool.", stamped my passport and in I went.
Let's look at the contrast here. Canada treated me like a welcome visitor and the process was efficient and friendly. The US forced me to enter their country against my will whilst demanding that I explain why I was entering their country, and expected me to be grateful for the whole experience.
So in conclusion, I refuse to visit the US as long as this idiotic attitude prevails, and I think the IOC has made an eminently sensible choice regarding the 2016 Olympic Games.
I'm a US citizen who recently went to China for a scientific conference. China has a reputation, no doubt well deserved, as a police state. But in terms of ridiculous airport security and immigration control, it's nowhere *near* as bad as the Americans. The Chinese are bureaucratic as all hell with their regs, but they're at least friendly about it.
When I got my passport checked back in the US, the fellow looks at my passport, notices the Chinese visa, and says "Welcome home" in this smug tone, as if to say "Aren't you glad you're back in the Land O' Freedom?"
Because it would be an excuse to move 'undesirables' out of the city in large numbers, make a spike in capital spending and construction, and then cause the city and its environs to implode when the Olympic venues turn out to be unrentable and the tourists vanish again?
Hosting the Olympics might be an honour on the national level, but locally... you've got to figure out which city you can afford to disrupt over the long term.
This thread seems to nicely demonstrate the national arrogance..
Could it possibly be that Rio won rather than the USA losing it?
After all, it's not like you deserved it at all. Invading lots of countries to do who-knows-what isn't consistent with the spirit of international harmony spread by the Olympics.
Feel free to mod me troll for telling it like it is:D
Speaking as a European who has experienced US border controls on connecting flights (i.e. not even properly entering the country): whatever the actual reasons for the decision, US border controls are sufficient reason not to host it there.
Rio de Janeiro is one of the most violent cities in the world. You think one sensationalist news story compares to what goes on in the favelas of Rio? What's worse is that the proximity of poor areas to rich ones means you're not safe anywhere. People regularly get mugged and kidnapped, tourists especially.
Rio's murder rate: 37.7 per 100,000 (2006) Chicago's murder rate: 15.7 per 100,000 (2005)
No, of course not! It is only evil when the US does it! Other countries are perfectly justified in doing it, the US is the only bad guy.
I'm quite sure the border control was a very small issue especially since such a thing could be laxened specifically for the Olympics (China did) and likely would be since the president was keen on having them.
No my guess is the most important consideration was that South America has never had an Olympic games. That gives them a leg up on getting them, presuming they are ready to host them. The Olympics is, after all, an INTERNATIONAL competition. Seems only fair that it should get hosted everywhere in the world then, no region that is capable of hosting it (it does take a certain amount of infrastructure) should be excluded. The US has gotten the Olympics more than any other country I'm aware of, so it seems reasonable to give others a chance.
There's also the matter of location. Chicago seems like a pretty shitty place to host the summer Olympics just climate wise. Not really one of the top summer destination spots in my book. Rio is a MUCH nicer location. Let's face it, the Olympics being a big tourist event, that sort of thing matters.
While the issue of border control may have been discussed, I doubt it was any serious consideration. Like I said, you've got the president pushing for it. If they go and say "Well ok, we'll give it to Chicago, but you have to do away with the fingerprinting and such for the people coming to see it," the president will say "No problem."
This is just people trying to twist things to push their agenda of getting rid of the new border controls. Now don't get me wrong, the new border controls are BS and should be done away with. However, trying to make up bullshit reasons makes you no better than the people who made up bullshit reasons to justify them int he first place.
I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Informative)
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
-jcr
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Interesting)
We once took pride in saying we were a melting pot of nations (racism aside). Now we're about the same, except we're a melting pot of xenophobes (maybe not at the citizen level, but definitely at the administrative/political level.
Sad to see the great American nation turn from something I was once very proud of to one that I've considered, quite a few times, to up and leave.
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Insightful)
But now? Well, I've heard enough horror stories by now from friends and colleagues about entering the USA that, despite me having no criminal convictions whatsoever, I'm afraid it ain't on my "to-do" list any more.
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Informative)
And let me tell you, if people from the UK are telling you that your border-control is unwelcoming, then it must be! I also live in the UK. You can bounce around Europe crossing borders with little more than a wave of your passport and a friendly nod. Then when you come back to the UK, it's a bit of a shock. Most of the EU find Britain rather silly with how worked up about its borders it gets, given that the rest of it manages with less pomp *and* has direct land passage to outside countries. I've also heard some strong complaints from people I know about entering the US. Aren't they asking for retinal scans or fingerprints in some places, now?
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Interesting)
no. not some places. Every entry point takes fingerprints of every visitor who is not a US Citizen or legal US Resident.
There is also some pain in the ass procedure that people have to do online. 24 hours before they get on the plane.
The US has just totally lost it both on the entry procedures AND airport security. The only place where the airport security is more of a useless pain in the ass is the UK, but it is a close race. The UK and the US seem to be competing with each other on who can make the most worthless security procedures.
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it was in Gatwick, I was passing through the airport and I noticed that you could purchase a "token" for an express passage. When you used this token, it skips one of the checkpoints.
This was not so much of a security checkpoint, but a cash-grab checkpoint. I had my computer in my arm and a wheeling suitcase, which sums up to two pieces of luggage. This not only exceeds airline baggage allowance, but it violates a security policy.
Fortunately, there was a coffee shop next to the entry point, so I deeked out the lady working security and had a coffee while thinking about how to squeeze my laptop into my carry-on.
She was working alone and couldn't do much when she was trying to explain the one-bag policy. It seemed lots of people could slip past her, some had more than one bag.
So I waited for somebody to get stopped...
... then I slipped through the turnstile.
Next time, I pay for the token.
Of course reporting this or complaining about this could get me banned from flights and labelled a terrorist.
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Insightful)
Looks to me that the "war" is already won - by the terrorists.
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Informative)
According to Wikipedia, ETA has killed "over 800 individuals" since 1968 and the IRA has killed "around 1,100 members of the British security forces, and around 630 civilians" since 1969. On that measure having the IRA is twice as bad as having ETA.
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Funny)
We once took pride in saying we were a melting pot of nations (racism aside).
Yeah, but that was before we realized that the tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free might take our jobs!
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Insightful)
And the appearence of security is not security.
Parent
Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Insightful)
You'll have to explain to us who the "crazy fuckers" are. Because I seem to remember it was a group of mostly Saudi's who happened to be fundamentalists (notice how I separate the two?!) that decided it would be a good idea to hijack our airplanes and ram them into our buildings.
This wasn't the work of a government who sent an army after us. This isn't WW3.
It was a group of sick individuals who meant to destroy us to fulfill their _personal_ and fundamentalist religious ideals.
This is _not_ how to act after a _small_ group of people do something terrible.
Lets also enact broad stroke laws any time a single child gets hurt. Oh wait. God damnit.
Parent
"The most ridiculous interview..." (Score:5, Informative)
"The most ridiculous interview I heard with my own ears:
Interviewer: "What did you have this morning as breakfast?"
Applicant: "Bread." I: "Nothing else?"
Applicant: "No."
Interviewer: "According to American law, we cannot grant you a visa."
Applicant: "....".
I was sitting beside the person when he was rejected. You know, it is funny to reject someone according American law just because he only had bread in the morning."
From http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20060519_getting_us_visa_in_china.htm [wangjianshuo.com]
Parent
Re:"The most ridiculous interview..." (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:"The most ridiculous interview..." (Score:5, Funny)
Guilty of having more holidays than her?
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Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Interesting)
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
-jcr
I flew 8 hours from London to Dallas this year. On arrival, I then waited 2 hours at the airport, along with about 300 other aliens, while sullen border guards slowly checked passports, took photos and fingerprints (this often took several attempts per person), and asked seemingly innocent questions in slow, menacing voices. If I didn't know better, I would have thought they'd been trained in military interrogation techniques.
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Re:I'm sure it didn't help. (Score:5, Informative)
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I'd *love* to be a tourist in the States (Score:5, Insightful)
...but you ain't gettin' my fingerprints for the privilege. What am I, a criminal?
Reform your system, and you'll see an increase in tourism, with all the good that that does your economy.
I'm not looking forward to going to the US (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'm not looking forward to going to the US (Score:5, Interesting)
The US is the only country in the world to care about a stupid posession misdemeanor - I could go anywhere else without issue at all..
And yet Canada won't let Americans in who have a DUI (also a misdemeanor here in MN at least and no, I've never had a DUI). I don't agree with the border policies in place in the US but I also don't think your comment is as insightful as others believe it to be either.
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Funny (Score:5, Insightful)
A DUI is something that carries the stigma of the high probability of the offender killing themselves or someone else. Having a joint is literally not a crime to anyone, and yet which one gets American nuts in a twist?
The disconnect in moral reasoning is getting ridiculous.
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Re:I'm not looking forward to going to the US (Score:5, Informative)
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UI Border controls aimed at stopping tourism (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought that was the whole point.
What's that? They're for stopping TERRORISM, you say? Naaaaah, can't be.
(I once went one a round-the-world holiday. At Fiji's passport control, they gave us garlands, and serenaded us with guitars; at US passport control they growled at us.)
I'm sorry, is that surprising how? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Olympics became a disgustingly commercial event for the past few decades and corporations are going to put pressure towards a location where prospective visitors aren't put off by over the top security measures...
The next time someone asks what's the harm in the security theatre, point them towards the loss of tourism. I have to say I'm one of those people who deeply resent the invasive fingerprint taking entrance to the USA. It's a shame that stupid border procedures prevent me from visiting an otherwise beautiful country...
Border Control only? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well it could also be because a Rio olympics would be really awesome. I don't think Chicago could compete on atmosphere with Rio.
Re:Border Control only? (Score:5, Insightful)
And the fact that South America never held the Olympics before.
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Re:Border Control only? (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, not to mention the rise of Brazil in the world in general (much like China before it) and the chance to finally have one in South America now there's a country competent enough to make it work. Plus the better weather, plus it's cheaper to go to, plus you don't need crazy-priced "Platinum (US Only)" grade medical and lawsuit travel insurance, plus how awesome a Brazillian opening and closing ceremony will be, plus America has had it relatively recently, and on and on.
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Re:Border Control only? (Score:5, Funny)
how awesome a Brazillian opening and closing ceremony will be,
Rest of the world would never know about it - because it would be rated 18+/21+ and would never be aired.
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Personal Example (Score:5, Interesting)
I can give you a personal example of this - my father is a 76-year old western european citizen, and has been to the US easily a hundred times and was a US resident for over a decade. And as a merchant, he's spent easily many hundred of thousands on goods in the US over the past 40 years. Last Christmas, he came over to see us, and at the local International Airport he was pulled aside, patted down, his baggage and items gone over in detail, and interrogated for 20 minutes. Why? No reason given. As a result, he doesn't want to come to the US at all any more, so we have to go visit in Europe or rendezvous in another 3rd country. Yea, I know, we get to go to Europe more often, but it's a lot more expensive & difficult to coordinate schedules and take the family than to have one person travel here.
I spent a lot of last year overseas on projects - and I heard over and over again from people that no longer think it's worth it to come to the US for shows/conferences/travel because of the travel restrictions and attitude toward non-US citizens by customs and immigration.
They may be lucky! (Score:5, Insightful)
I live in London, where just about anyone you ask who lives here will tell you they don't want the games, never wanted the games, and are angry that money to fund the building of venues and facilities is being taken from National Lottery funds and (possibly) direct taxation.
Mileage varies considerably in the short and long-term economic and social effects [google.com] of hosting an Olympics. London doesn't need it, and Chicago may well not have done either.
Re:They may be lucky! (Score:5, Funny)
The London Olympics have epic potential for showcasing the UK. The cycling events should all be on the pot-holed, speed-bumped, litter-filled streets and have to comply with all road laws, the weight lifters would all be subject to health and safety legislation, as would the hammer and javelin throwers. Runners would struggle down the uneven, excrement-smeared pavements, dodging around the lamp-posts, bollards and fencing etc.
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Actually... (Score:5, Insightful)
From all those cities listed in the report linked above, only Athens seems to have failed to properly exploit the effect of hosting the Olympic Games.
All other cites (Barcelona, Atlanta, Sidney, Beijing) reported nothing but growth.
London doesn't need it, and Chicago may well not have done either.
Nonsense.
A global metropolis that can say "I'll pass" to billions invested in the infrastructure, millions of visitors and billions of pounds/dollars/euros spent by everyone?
No such place on this planet.
The effect on the crime and pollution alone (clean streets) is worth the trouble for the average Tom, Dick and Harry.
Those must be some crazy conservative xenophobes you talked to.
Not wanting money during a global economic crisis. Mad as bicycles that lot.
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Re:Actually... (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking as a long-time "Sidney" resident, I gotta say we were all a bit annoyed by the whole damned thing too, the fact they ripped up half the CBD, the endless news stories, the drama bombs, the wasted money, the roads that were all going to be closed, and all the general getting ready crap. People were wearing "Fuck The Olympics" shirts openly in the streets.
And then the games started.
And it was a fucking awesome enormous city wide party that lasted for 2-3 weeks, all the horrible concrete repeatedly torn up footpaths had been replaced with highly skatable and cable-friendly slate all through the centre city, there were no building sites anywhere, the pubs and bars were all full, and it just generally kicked ass.
While I don't by any means underestimate the ability of Londoners to put a negative light on something, I have this suspicion that it's the same for every city that hosts it. A sort of preparation and drama filled pregnancy, filled with hormonal outbursts and morning sickness.
Wait till the games actually start, it will be a different place.
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Why not fly into Canada or Ireland first (Score:5, Interesting)
Mod this up (Score:5, Insightful)
Then again, when I'm already in Canada, why would I want to go to the US ;)
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Thank you, border patrol (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm grateful for the men and women who patrol our borders. If this report is true, their hard work has kept us safe from another potential disaster: Having to endure 7 years of unrelenting hype, having to witness multiple late and overbudget Stalinesque construction projects, all capped off by an orgy of hypocritical corporate-sponsored "amateur" contests and overblown nationalism. Good job!
Is it Ironic or not ? (Score:5, Insightful)
1) The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate when measured against citizen head count to incarcerated or otherwise restricted status citizenry (Parole/Probation) of ANY country in the world.
2) A convicted U.S. felon can still travel internationally to other countries, yet the U.S. refuses to consider allowing another country's citizens to arrive here for what constitutes a misdemeanor or less, regardless of time passed
3) Getting back into the country as a citzen or "worse" GC or other status holder is worse than painful if singled out for secondary. I am non-white and get profiled every time I come back, despite having served and having no "reasons" to be flagged other than my last name which is clearly non-american originated.
4) While requiring a VISA or fingerprinting itself is not counter-intuitive to travel, the manner and inconsistency is. Having said that, for being touted as "the land of the free" and "a shining beacon of democracy" is ironic itself when our policies at the border (or even non-border with the TSA and Border Agents) clearly indicate that we are profiling even inside our borders. How do you explain roving road blocks for "immigration" checks just because you happen to be on a road within 100 miles of a border....
5) To host in Chicago, we'd be doing the same things we did in Atlanta. We'd be buying the homeless once again a 1-way ticket to nowhere (or anywhere but "here"), we'd be tearing down projects and displacing people/families to make way for the Olympic Village, and you can be damn sure that the average "Chicagoan" (sp?) would not be able to even get into the venues, much less afford the cost of the tickets being hosted in their own city. This happened in Atlanta where I live in 1996....
6) We just had the summit in Pittsburgh that was shameful in the way it's citizenry were treated as well as most of the peaceful demonstrators. Beatings, the use of a sound cannon and extensive use of tear gas, etc had me thinking initially this was some other country where liberty and democracy/freedom of speech was supressed.... Turns out I was right, but had the wrong country in mind, which was depressing and downright scary
The list could go on with examples, but it would be unfair to clutter the Slashdot database with further examples that are easily googled.
I do love my country and the people in it for the most part, but I'd be lying if I said I believed 95% of the hype that our Tourism Board spews out to attract visitors. I think the loss of tourism and downturn in visitors since we enacted the failed Patriot Act speaks volumes, the rest of the tidbits I shared just add further fuel to the reasons why those who would like to see us (the U.S.) just stay the hell away.
Suffice it to say in my opinion that on the one hand we have U.S. which has clearly become a very dim shadow of itself and the other hand we're trying to portray ourselves, or at least that's my impression as a U.S. Citizen.....
yes, probably (Score:5, Interesting)
I've organized some international events, and US border control policies and visa requirements are a big argument against holding them in the US.
Border control in Europe is very simple in my experience; people check whether your passport is on a list, and if it's not, they just wave you through. No fingerprinting, photographs, long lines, tricky questions, pre-registration, or interrogation booths. And despite that, Europe seems to have been doing no worse on terrorism or illegal immigration than the US.
Bad for Permanent Residents too (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife has permanent residency here in the US and I am a citizen . We used to be able to go through border control together and she was treated quite well. Now, she has to be fingerprinted (the fact that her fingerprints are already on file with immigration, has been through the interview process for permanent residency seem to make no difference).
I have permanent residency in her country, Singapore, as well. When we enter or exit Singapore, its quick and easy. Even before I had PR status, it was easier to get in and out of the country as a tourist than it was to get in and out of the US as a citizen. Land of the Free, my ass.
US Customs Isn't Kind To US Citizens, Either (Score:5, Informative)
I have had similar experiences in the past as well, I once had to pull from the customs booth to the "additional screening" building (single car garage with doors on both ends) where I had to empty my trunk for a customs agent.
So I can't say I'm surprised if the security theater here was a deciding factor against having another Olympics here. Certainly our procedures have changed a fair bit since 1996.
I, for one, boycott the US (Score:5, Interesting)
Once on a flight from Australia to Canada, my plane stopped to refuel at Hawaii airport.
When we were about an hour out approaching Hawaii, the flight attendants came around with US immigration cards for us to fill out. I was completely baffled and started to get seriously worried that I was on the wrong flight or some shit. I said to the attendant "But, we're going to Vancouver, right?". She replied "Yes, I'm sorry, everyone has to fill out a US immigration card". She seemed kinda puzzled by the whole thing too.
Not entirely put at ease, I started filling out the form, which was probably the most poorly laid-out and silliest form I've ever encountered in my life. Am I affiliated with the Nazi party? WTF is the matter with these people? I felt like I was being interrogated like a criminal suspect. Do I intend to commit acts of terrorism against the United States? Well right up until I was forced to fill out that form, I would have categorically said "no", but afterwards I have to admit my inclinations were changing in that regard.
My favourite question was "Why do you wish to enter the United States". I wrote down the only reasonable answer under the circumstances: "I don't".
So we all got off the plane, milled around Hawaii airport in swelteringly humid conditions for TWO HOURS, were forced to remove our shoes and finally, when it was my turn to meet the immigration official and hand in my stupid form, she looked at my answers, scowled at me and said "What does this mean, 'I don't'?".
I'm totally fucking serious. That's what she said.
I replied "It means just what it says. I don't wish to enter the United States."
She said, I shit you not, "Well why are you here then?".
Wow. Just ... wow. Here is a person whose job it is to enforce immigration policy and she doesn't even know that they force transit passengers who are not bound for the US to go through immigration? I feel an intense fury at the level of stupidity on display, but I clench my teeth and force myself to stay calm. After all, I don't want to get on the wrong side of this person/vegetable and get a finger stuck up my ass for my trouble.
After thinking for a moment about how I can explain the situation to a person of such ... limited mental faculty, I say "I'm going to Vancouver. My plane is refuelling here and apparently that means we have to go through US immigration?"
She levelling her blank stare at me for a few seconds, then shuffled some papers around while I stood there wondering what the hell kind of Twilight Zone bullshit I'd just wandered into. Then she stamped my passport, stapled the stupid form to it, muttered something at me and let me through. I had successfully visited the United States! Absent any consent or intention to do so! After all, it's not like travellers actually know which countries they want to go to. Better decide these things for them.
I then got back on my plane, sat in the exact same seat I had occupied two hours earlier, and we made our way to Vancouver.
When we arrived at Vancouver airport, a nice man in a suit asked me if I was a Canadian resident. I said "no" and with a polite "this way please sir" he directed me to the non-residents line. After waiting in the queue for about 5 minutes, the guy at the desk said "Oh you're from Australia. What brings you to Canada?" I said "Just here on holiday.". He asked "Gonna do any skiing while you're here?". I said "Maybe." He said "Cool.", stamped my passport and in I went.
Let's look at the contrast here. Canada treated me like a welcome visitor and the process was efficient and friendly. The US forced me to enter their country against my will whilst demanding that I explain why I was entering their country, and expected me to be grateful for the whole experience.
So in conclusion, I refuse to visit the US as long as this idiotic attitude prevails, and I think the IOC has made an eminently sensible choice regarding the 2016 Olympic Games.
It's bad even if you're a citizen... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a US citizen who recently went to China for a scientific conference. China has a reputation, no doubt well deserved, as a police state. But in terms of ridiculous airport security and immigration control, it's nowhere *near* as bad as the Americans. The Chinese are bureaucratic as all hell with their regs, but they're at least friendly about it.
When I got my passport checked back in the US, the fellow looks at my passport, notices the Chinese visa, and says "Welcome home" in this smug tone, as if to say "Aren't you glad you're back in the Land O' Freedom?"
Re:Chicago lost it because it didn't deserve it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Rio has pretty high crime, too, you know, and slums. I doubt Chicago's worse.
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Re:Chicago lost it because it didn't deserve it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hosting the Olympics might be an honour on the national level, but locally... you've got to figure out which city you can afford to disrupt over the long term.
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Re:Easily the most unfriendly airports in the worl (Score:5, Informative)
Just so you know, people at American airports don't treat *Americans* very well either.
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Re:No. (Score:5, Interesting)
This thread seems to nicely demonstrate the national arrogance..
Could it possibly be that Rio won rather than the USA losing it?
After all, it's not like you deserved it at all. Invading lots of countries to do who-knows-what isn't consistent with the spirit of international harmony spread by the Olympics.
Feel free to mod me troll for telling it like it is :D
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Re:No. (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking as a European who has experienced US border controls on connecting flights (i.e. not even properly entering the country): whatever the actual reasons for the decision, US border controls are sufficient reason not to host it there.
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Re:Brazil's passport system is no picnic either (Score:5, Informative)
No, they just make you go through the exact same thing a Brazilian citizen goes while going to your contry.
If you're from a Schengen country, come on in. If you're from the US, you need a visa, you need to have your fingerprints taken, etc, etc
Reciprocity's a bitch, isn't it.
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Re:more likely reason: (Score:5, Insightful)
Who the hell modded you up?
Rio de Janeiro is one of the most violent cities in the world. You think one sensationalist news story compares to what goes on in the favelas of Rio? What's worse is that the proximity of poor areas to rich ones means you're not safe anywhere. People regularly get mugged and kidnapped, tourists especially.
Rio's murder rate: 37.7 per 100,000 (2006)
Chicago's murder rate: 15.7 per 100,000 (2005)
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Re:Did Tokyo lose because of this as well? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, of course not! It is only evil when the US does it! Other countries are perfectly justified in doing it, the US is the only bad guy.
I'm quite sure the border control was a very small issue especially since such a thing could be laxened specifically for the Olympics (China did) and likely would be since the president was keen on having them.
No my guess is the most important consideration was that South America has never had an Olympic games. That gives them a leg up on getting them, presuming they are ready to host them. The Olympics is, after all, an INTERNATIONAL competition. Seems only fair that it should get hosted everywhere in the world then, no region that is capable of hosting it (it does take a certain amount of infrastructure) should be excluded. The US has gotten the Olympics more than any other country I'm aware of, so it seems reasonable to give others a chance.
There's also the matter of location. Chicago seems like a pretty shitty place to host the summer Olympics just climate wise. Not really one of the top summer destination spots in my book. Rio is a MUCH nicer location. Let's face it, the Olympics being a big tourist event, that sort of thing matters.
While the issue of border control may have been discussed, I doubt it was any serious consideration. Like I said, you've got the president pushing for it. If they go and say "Well ok, we'll give it to Chicago, but you have to do away with the fingerprinting and such for the people coming to see it," the president will say "No problem."
This is just people trying to twist things to push their agenda of getting rid of the new border controls. Now don't get me wrong, the new border controls are BS and should be done away with. However, trying to make up bullshit reasons makes you no better than the people who made up bullshit reasons to justify them int he first place.
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