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Comments: 498 +- News: Disney Close To Unveiling New "DVD Killer" on Wednesday October 21, @02:37PM
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Uncle Rummy writes "The Wall Street Journal reports that Disney is close to releasing a new system that will sell permanent, multi-device access to digital media. The system, dubbed Keychest, is being positioned as an answer to consumer concerns about purchasing digital media that are locked to a small number of devices, and thus as a way to finally shift media sales from an ownership model to an access model. They claim that such a service would reduce the risk of losing access to content as a result of a single vendor going out of business, as purchased content would remain available from other vendors. However, they do not seem to have addressed the question of what happens to customers' access to purchased content if the Keychest service itself is discontinued."
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Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
In order to provide the most choice, freedom, and protection for consumers, use of Keychest will become mandatory.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fixed.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
No, sales go up. With everybody dead, it realizes there is nothing to stop it from using identity theft to get everybody to buy all Disney merchandize at full retail price...
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
On April 21st 2011, Keychest becomes self aware and realized that the only way to protect Disney's content is to terminate all human life. Keychest takes control of the worlds nuclear arsenal and attacks. Mysteriously, sales plummet.
I'd bet money that Disney would still blame piracy for the decline in sales.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
I dare Disney to drop making any and all DVD's or BluRays and go just this route. It will finally take them down.
Honestly, most of their back catalog is whored hard. and they keep putting it "back in the vault" to create shortages to try and keep value up of their kid crack.
Me? I've got all of them I would ever want from Disney, my daughter is 17 and does not care about little mermaid anymore.
I double dare them to switch to only that model for their movies.....
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:4, Insightful)
my daughter is 17 and does not care about little mermaid anymore
Ah yes, but some point in the next decade or two your daughter's daughter will... That's the Disney Machine in action.
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Bait, switch, and lobotomize (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do they keep saying "buy" when what they really mean is "rent"?
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
It's amazing what you can buy on eBay these days.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, I thought he meant the beard.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd ask if you're new here, but your UID suggests you may be one of the original bearded ones.
Food for thought: Early Slashdotters were just as mentally handi-capable as the recent Slashdotters.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
Senator McCain, the election's over. You need to get over it and stop taking it out on your running mate.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
For you, no. All you have to do is 1) purchase the DVD (or whatever), 2) rip it to a hard drive, 3) transcode to whatever format the playing device will accept (MPEG, AVI, MP3, whatever 4) transfer it to the device 5) enjoy 6) Backup original so you don't lose or destroy it. Repeat as desired.
For Mush-for-Brains average consumer - it might be a bit much to expect. Hence, other ideas.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
This sort of "screw the customer" system coming from
Disney is really no big surprise. We have reached the
point where many consumers may not see the point in
buy future formats as what they already have (DVD)
seems "good enough" for their intended purpose. Some
4 year old that wants to watch the same movie over
and over again probably won't notice the subtleties
between 480i and 1080p.
Thus Disney is in the problematic position of having
a durable physical medium that may cause an eventual
saturation of their target market.
Who knows. Perhaps the next generation will inherit
all of our Disney DVDs and there will be no reason
for him to buy his own copy. THIS is probably what
scares the bejezzus out of Disney.
That's not even getting into "rips".
Also, Disney seems to be the most active studio when it
comes to screwing around with the current DVD format to
try and layer "error based" copy protection over it.
Disney are the ABSOLUTE LAST people you want to trust with
a consumer video format that doesn't offer some sort of
physical ownership token or first sale rights.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Funny)
No, he's using the same 80x25 computer monitor he had when he created his Slashdot account.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
I seriously doubt this will be a DVD killer, and Disney isn't likely to stop selling DVDs unless everybody else does, too. And it's incredibly stupid on the MAFIAA's part; most slashdotters would happily get rid of physical media, but even here you see lots of folks saying they don't want an ebook reader, they want real books.
Most people, when they buy something, want to own it. Downloaded media is rental. I want to be able to sell or loan my stuff; when I buy something, I want to BUY something. I don't buy movies, I buy DVDs. I don't buy music, I buy CDs.
From TFA: could contribute to a shift in what it means for a consumer to own a movie or a TV show, by redefining ownership as access rights, not physical possession.
To paraphrase Shakespeare, a turd by any other name would stink as badly. Access rights are NOT ownership. If you rent a house you have access rights, but you don't own it. I own my CDs and DVD's. They're mone and I can do with them as I wish. Not so with "access rights".
Are the world's liars remaking the English language these days?
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
Access rights are NOT ownership. [snip] I own my CDs and DVD's. They're mine and I can do with them as I wish. Not so with "access rights".
The thing that you seem to be misunderstanding is that, although you own the CD/DVD, you do not own the CONTENT of the CD/DVD. You never have, and (given the way the copyright laws are bending) you never will.
I don't buy movies, I buy DVDs. I don't buy music, I buy CDs.
This is exactly right. You own the plastic, but Disney/Sony/whoever owns the bits.
Buying a CD/DVD is a granting of access rights to the bearer of that CD/DVD. Current equipment also grants the ability to duplicate the content of that CD/DVD - cheaply and flawlessly - as many times as desired. It is that ability that the studios want to squash. However, the genie is already out of the bottle. The sooner they realize it, the sooner they can work on a business model that works on copy abundance rather than copy scarcity.
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Re:Can I avoid this simply by avoiding Disney? (Score:4, Informative)
You can try. But remember that Disney is very, very, very big. The silly parks and cheesy cartoons make up a tiny fraction of their overall empire.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Disney [wikipedia.org] as a reference. Big.
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Tomorrow's ./ headline - (Score:5, Funny)
MPAA sues Disney over new "DVD Killer"
Disney sells product that solves Disney's problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:5, Interesting)
This bears repeating.
If not for Disney, you would already be able to take home your Bluray of Snow White
and suck it straight into iTunes where it would be immediately accessable to any of
your AppleTV units.
Similar non-apple solutions would exist including one from Microsoft and one from Tivo.
Any "barriers" to your grandmother having Desperate Housewives ripped to the rediculously
oversized hard drive in her clone crapbox PC are artificial. Technology really has squat
to do with it.
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Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't particularly like owning films. I own quite a lot, but I haven't bought many in the last few years (and those only from charity shops when the DVDs were really cheap). They take up a lot of space, and I don't watch them very often. I rent a lot more. There are few films I want to watch more than once, or maybe twice, and, given the choice, I would much rather watch a new film than one I've seen before.
And that is Disney's real problem. The thing that they have of value is the ability to produce new films. They need to stop fixating on trying to sell copies of their films and focus on how to persuade people to pay them to make new films. That is the kind of innovation the industry needs, not new forms of DRM.
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Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:5, Insightful)
DOES Disney create new films? I thought they just recyled stuff that was already out there, tweaked it a bit, then released it as "Disney's 666th film". The last truly original thing they did involved a cute, but very elderly by now, mouse, and a duck with a speech problem.
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Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing that they have of value is the ability to produce new films
I have to disagree. The one thing that Disney can do like no one else, and which is therefore their primary value, is merchandising the crap out of existing content. When was the last time you saw a good Disney movie (Pixar doesn't count)? When was the last time you saw Disney produce original content that even its current target audience won't cringe at in a few years?
For crying out loud, they're releasing a double-feature of Toy Story 1 and 2 in 3D now! Creatively, Disney is dead. Their saving grace in that department is Pixar. And Disney knows that - which is exactly why they're focusing so much on merchandise, 3D, theme parks, copyright protection, and now this scheme. They know they can't create new content. That's why they're coming up with a million ideas on how to sell you old stuff again. And again. And again.
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Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:4, Insightful)
See personally, I disagree. Part of my problem with current online digital media is that they're focusing on "owning" rather than "accessing". Take iTunes, for example. I can "buy" a season of a particular show, but I can't just pay to watch it once. Not only does "buying" theoretically increase the price to watch a show once that I'll probably only want to watch once, but it also puts me on the hook to store and maintain a copy. Sure, I can throw it away if I really only want to watch it once, but then I've payed "buying" price for a "rental".
Personally, I wouldn't mind paying for most TV shows and movies per-viewing, so long as it was cheap and I had the option to buy. Further, what I'd really like to do is buy free access to downloads in perpetuity, regardless of new/improved formats. What I mean is, I might actually be convinced to spend $20 on a movie on iTunes if I knew that I could re-download it whenever I wanted (if the original file was lost or deleted), and that if they release it in 1080p in a couple of years I could download that copy, too. And then if they released it in whatever replaced 1080p, I could get that free too. That would be my preference as a consumer, that they quit trying to force me to re-buy the same movie over and over again.
Still, I would agree that they're really trying to solve their own problem instead of the consumer's problem. The "consumer concerns about purchasing digital media that are locked to a small number of devices" is entirely caused by two things: selling less-than-ideal quality versions so they can sell you better versions later, and locking users in with DRM. I know everyone knows what I'm talking about with DRM, but movie studios are selling DVD quality movies on iTunes even after the Bluray has been released. Hell, there are even cases where they'll let you rent the 720p version (meaning it's on Apple's server) but will only let you buy the DVD-quality. And that's only 720p. Why should I spend $20 on a 720p version when I know a 1080p version exists and there's no predefined upgrade path.
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Re:Disney sells product that solves Disney's probl (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet every disney DVD ad on tv states.... "OWN IT TODAY"
If they hate the ownership idea, then why do they push it with their false advertising?
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So, "any device" means... (Score:4, Insightful)
Which means any device other then something I would want to use to watch a movie while on an airplane. More or less the same problem I have with current "digital copy included!" DVDs on the market. They don't actually work with anything I want to use.
Watermark (Score:5, Informative)
Watermarked content can be played on unlimited number of devices, but can not be posted to thepiratebay. Pirates can attempt conversion, but by the time you are sure you stripped all possible watermarking techniques, the video is so blurry people will buy a legit version anyway. This currently works for Apple/Amazon audio with zero issues. It's too sad that Disney wants both legal and technical special treatment to keep protecting Mickey Mouse.
watermark on massive consumer sold item ? (Score:4, Insightful)
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wrong again (Score:4, Insightful)
Shifting media sales from an ownership model to an access model is the major "customer concern" with DRM. All other "customer concerns" are really just derivatives of this one.
"Redefining ownership as access rights..." (Score:5, Insightful)
...the Holy Grail of the "content" industry.
Printing Press (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems to me that media companies see DRM as a printing press on which they can print their own cash.
And seem sore when they find out no one but them seems to value their funny money.
If they really want us to see value in it, they need to back it up with a gold standard... put copies of the movie in some DRM-free format in escrow.
Your technology goes away; we get DRM-free version of the movies we purchased.
Dead DRM remote-authorization services. (Score:5, Informative)
If you bought into any of these, you're a sucker. They don't work any more.
Next, Disney.
Re:Dead DRM remote-authorization services. (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, I think you added an extra letter. Since it does not, in fact, "Play for sure", but they got your money, I think the proper name for Microsoft's product is "PaysForSure".
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There's a typo... (Score:5, Insightful)
The system, dubbed Keychest, is being positioned to lock our customers into a DRM system, so that we can squeeze every penny out of them...
There, fixed that for you Disney.
what happens to customers' access (Score:4, Funny)
SHUT UP! The user is not supposed to think about that until they launch keychest 2!
Please... (Score:5, Funny)
Be afraid! (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't care what the ads say. The only thing that will matter is what's in a legally-binding contract. Not a TOS that Disney will doubtless reserve the right to change, but a contract. And in case you're wondering about the possible limitations that will likely come along, let me throw out a few:
1. Sure, you get perpetual viewing rights, but they only last for as long as the Keychest service does. Anyone who bought DRM'ed music from MSN or Yahoo got a taste of what could happen if the DRM servers are taken down. And, as someone else already pointed out, there's nothing to stop Disney from pulling the plug if profits aren't to their liking. Does that mean you'll lose access to all the stuff you bought? Yes, but here's a book of discount coupons so you can save a few bucks on all the DVDs you're going to have to buy to rebuild your movie collection.
2. Would you like to sell that movie you've grown tired of? Not with Keychest, you can't. Suddenly, used DVD sales go away, which is something the studios have wished for for quite a long time. See, wishes can come true!
3. It's a fact that studios love trailers and commercials. Actually, trailers ARE commercials, and a service like Keychest allows the ads to get changed out at any time, and I'd be willing to bet that you won't be able to skip them. Are there no ads before that movie you just bought? Maybe not now, but they could appear any time down the road.
The thing is, Keychest is meant to solve the studios' problems, not mine. I have no problem with the ownership model, thank you very much. I also have no problem with playing the movies on my shelf in any device I want. If I want to load them onto a laptop, I'll either burn a copy to a blank disc (so the DVD can stay safely at home) or rip it and load it on the hard drive. Does that violate the DMCA? Maybe, but it solves my problem very nicely, it doesn't distribute the movie to anyone who hasn't paid for it, and I don't need a crippled service like Keychest to accomplish it, so I'm just fine with it.
I don't care if Disney sees this as a DVD killer. They may want to kill the DVD, but I don't, so they can go pound sand for all I care.
DVD killer? Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh c'mon, it's not about online movies. This is yet another try at switching users from purchase to long-term rental, in the face of clear evidence that consumers do not want this. Disney clearly hasn't learned anything from DIVX and the 48 hour self-destructing DVD. They seem to think that all they need to do is find the right technology and the right marketing technique, and they can continue to depends on rebuys for a significant part of their revenue stream, despite that business model being dead since the VHS days.
When I purchase a movie, I don't want the content to be out in "the cloud", depending on services that will inevitably go TU some day, or depend on "phoning home" for permission to play the media I have purchased. I want a physical, non-encumbered archival copy, else it's just a high priced rental, competing unsuccessfully against dirt-cheap rentals like Netflix.
Re:Out of Business? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hahahahahahaha! Hah!
If Disney goes out of business, you'll have more important things to worry about, like the collapse of civilization as we know it.
Disney isn't going anywhere, not when they have the backing of the US government (among others) to ensure that you, citizen, can only watch/read/listen to items if you pay the Disney tax (for things that should have been in the public domain decades ago).
The DVDs you have purchased will wear out long before Disney is dead and gone.
Why do that, when they can just make sure that people are punished for copying? Make it not worth the risk to copy.
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Re:Out of Business? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do that, when they can just make sure that people are punished for copying? Make it not worth the risk to copy.
How do you plan on doing that? The risk of getting caught is infinitesmial, so in order for the expected payoff to be negative you would need enormous fines. Even larger than the 80,000 per track Jammie Thomas faces. And still, people would keep copying in the expectation that "it could never happen to me".
The only other option is to make it much harder to copy by locking down our general purpose computing hardware, which would destroy the US's technological advantage.
Neither of these cases are at all sustainable. We do not need an unwinnable "war on copyright violation" in the vein of the "war on drugs". The only sensible solution is to understand that the world has changed, and that some business models are not viable anymore.
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Re:Out of Business? (Score:5, Funny)
what if Disney itself goes out of business?
Then all is lost. You will be too busy fighting for daily survival - trying to outwit gangs of bandits, scrounging or stealing whatever scraps of food you can find, amputating your own gangrenous limb using nothing but rusty garden tools - to think about movies or entertainment of any kind.
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Re:Out of Business? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but what do I do when I get OUT of Disneyworld?
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Re:Out of Business? (Score:5, Insightful)
Or what if Disney itself goes out of business?
Highly unlikely.
BUT the point is valid. Everyone that has ever hawked centralized-server-drm says that they could never possibly go out of business. A few say they'll release a tool to unlock all the content if they go under. To my knowledge, no tool has ever been released in such a case, and there are over a dozen large examples of such companies going out of business or simply shutting down their activation servers, turning purchased content into useless bits.
"There oughtta be a law". That says DRM is only legal if the universal unlocker is kept in escrow somewhere (and kept updated) with terms to go public with it if they ch7,9,11,etc or simply shut off their servers.
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Re:Out of Business? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:And what happens when the copyright ends? (Score:5, Funny)
Are you even at all familiar with the Disney company?
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