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Comments: 329 +-   MythTV 0.22 Released on Sunday November 08, @10:33PM

Posted by timothy on Sunday November 08, @10:33PM
from the excess-of-caution dept.
media
tv
linux
uyguremre writes "After a little over a year and a half in the making, the developers of MythTV announced that MythTV 0.22 is now available. There have been a lot of large changes since 0.21, including a port from Qt v3 to Qt v4 and a major UI rewrite to convert to MythTV's new MythUI user interface libary. As always, this release adds support for some new hardware, in this case VDPAU video acceleration, DVB-S2, and the Hauppauge HD-PVR. The MythUI toolkit allows themes much greater control over the user interface and today we're announcing a competition to design new themes for MythTV. With the new release comes a theming competition too. For a more complete list of changes and new features, read the Release Notes on the wiki."
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  • .01 Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Telvin_3d (855514) on Sunday November 08, @11:08PM (#30028604)

    So, let's get this right, in this update they have:
    - Major back-end changes
    - Major UI rewrite
    - Significant new hardware support
    - Also, apparently a more powerful themes toolkit

    And this isn't even worth a .1 version increment. It's a .01

    Really, if the version numbers are going to be this meaningless for tracking significant changes they should at least name them or come up with some other system. Something that let's people get interested and involved in the project and excited about the new release.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I was under the impression that people got interested and involved because of... well, the list of fancy new features. If it was called "Dastardly DVR," think it would somehow improve it?

      In that case, it's actually MythTV Eleventy Thrillion, Titty Tivo!

      • Re:.01 Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Telvin_3d (855514) on Sunday November 08, @11:46PM (#30028886)

        Well, let's put it another way. Say you tried it at .20 and found that it was interesting but still too rough for your needs. Now, you are browsing around and see in passing that the current version is .22. Now, based on that .02 difference do you think that it has gone through major changes and deserves a second look or has it just been tweaked a little?

        No, don't go overboard. It doesn't need to be silly but it does need to provide a realistic feel of how the project is progressing. If your release notes are including the words 'major' and 'significant' and 'large changes' and 'major rewrite' it might be a good clue that it's worth going up by an entire .1

        Or since I'm sure all these didn't happen over night or perfectly in sync it may have called for some internal development releases that would have this public release be 2.5 or something.

        Or, yes, give it a name. It works for Ubuntu.

    • by syousef (465911) on Sunday November 08, @11:32PM (#30028768) Journal

      Clearly you haven't dealt with MythTV. The myth is that you get to watch and record TV. The reality is you spend all your time fiddling with it and cursing at it until your head is so bloody from banging it up against a brick wall that you give up and decide to give up TV altogether.

      • by dgatwood (11270) on Monday November 09, @12:42AM (#30029206) Journal

        The reality is you spend all your time fiddling with it and cursing at it until your head is so bloody from banging it up against a brick wall that you give up and decide to give up TV altogether.

        Close. The reality is that you spend so much time banging your head up against a brick wall that you just think you're watching TV.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          The reality is you spend all your time fiddling with it and cursing at it until your head is so bloody from banging it up against a brick wall that you give up and decide to give up TV altogether.

          Close. The reality is that you spend so much time banging your head up against a brick wall that you just think you're watching TV.

          I know that these are funny, but just so people know, it's really not true. Setting up MythTV is really quite easy, and if you're building a box specifically to run mythtv hardware support is a complete non-issue. Get one of the better capture cards (check the support list), and everything Will Just Work.

          I've been running Myth for years, and there was a time when installing it was problematic to say the least, but seriously, setting up MythTV these days is no harder than installing an app from your packag

    • by KingSkippus (799657) on Monday November 09, @02:06AM (#30029592) Homepage Journal

      And this isn't even worth a .1 version increment. It's a .01

      If they're recording their version numbers like most software does, the move from 0.21 to 0.22 is what you're calling a ".1" release.

      Version numbers aren't meant to be like normal decimal numbers. The stuff the the right of the decimal point is the integral minor release number. Going from 0.21 to 0.22 means an increment of one minor version, not a "hundredth" of a major version release.* There's no such thing as a ".01 release."

      In other words, the jump from 0.21 to 0.22 is the same "amount" of version increase as the jump from 0.1 to 0.2. if you're at version 4.9 of something and you push out a minor release, its version will be 4.10, not 5.0, which would indicate a major release. Likewise, version 4.1 of software is most emphatically not the same thing as version 4.10.

      It's also why a lot of version numbers have multiple decimal points, such as 4.9.1326. (The 1326 in this case is likely a build or other sub-minor revision number.) Obviously, if you're trying to interpret that as some kind of fraction between 4 and 5, it's meaningless.

      * Just to satisfy the pedants, there are some exceptions. Some software with lots of minor revision milestones number early minor revisions x.01, x.02, etc. Also, some software uses a version numbering scheme in which odd numbers are development versions and even numbers are stable versions, so for example, x.14 would be a stable release and x.15 would be the next development release. And some developers give their software stupid-ass meaningless version names instead, such as "Millennium Edition," "XP," and "Vista," so that you really have no idea what the hell you're running outside of a general four-year or so time window.

      To my knowledge, none of these schemes apply to MythTV, thank god.

  • database (Score:4, Interesting)

    by visualight (468005) on Sunday November 08, @11:11PM (#30028638) Homepage

    Did they fix the database encoding in this one?

    • [from his sig]
      --
      Boycott Hollywood during December 2009 [No DVD's for Christmas, no Christmas BlockBusters] Spread the word.

      Why, might I ask? (I suppose my sig makes this question kind of ironic/dumb-sounding... What specifically have they done this time?)

    • Re:database (Score:4, Informative)

      by swillden (191260) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Sunday November 08, @11:50PM (#30028930) Homepage Journal

      Did they fix the database encoding in this one?

      That depends on what you mean by "fix".

      With MythTV 0.22, the database is expected to be configured with the UTF-8 character set. If you're upgrading a database that has been used with a previous version (which required the database to use the latin1 character set), you need to fix your database [mythtv.org].

      I would guess that if you're using MythTV as packaged by a major distro, by the time your distro delivers 0.22 it will probably handle the character set conversion automatically.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Ah, yes, I had to do the "fix your database" thing yesterday. Based on the complexity of the guide, I'm guessing a lot of users will just wipe and reinstall everything, rather than attempt to go through that ridiculous manual process.

  • I for one welcome our MythTV .22 Overlords!

    I've been using MythTV for a bunch of years now, and I find it an absolute blast. It works on every PC I can find, and even on my work OSX laptop, which still lets me watch The It's Alive Show [theitsaliveshow.com] while I'm hacking away. It even eats the commercials, and does a better job with digital television signals. I can't wait for multirec support for my HDHomeRun.

    If you haven't tried MythTV recently, check it out again.
    • by BLKMGK (34057) <morejunk4me@noSPAm.hotmail.com> on Sunday November 08, @11:58PM (#30028968) Homepage

      You were doing great up until that "it works on everything" part. Plenty of folks have pulled their hair out with Myth in the past and you make it sound like a breeze. Look at the numbers of folks posting here that have given up on it and you can plainly see it's far from easy. I for one hope that this version is VERY good but please, the rah rah it works great stuff can be saved - most of us know better having tried it already.

      I lent out my HDHR to someone having given up on Myth previously. I have spare hardware though so maybe I'll try it again but if it's half as bad as the last time I'll put it down again. The Myth guys really have an uphill climb convincing people IMO. Myth seems like the epitome of what people have issues with when they talk about Linux. Funky config scripts, hair pulling, things that don't make sense, things that just don't work, picky hardware, painful broken upgrades, the list is long. A new version is great news, lets see if it flies. Call me cautious having been bitten about 5 times previously by this software!

  • by distantbody (852269) on Sunday November 08, @11:41PM (#30028848) Journal
    Do I still have to f**k around with 100 combinations/restarts of Qt, ffmpeg, XVideo, XvMC, libmpeg2, xv-blit, opengl, xlib, xshm, directfb, directx ...all whilst not being able to see the f**king mouse cursor and having to hit 'next' five times just to change one setting?
  • Given official Hauppage HD-PVR support, this could be one of the best high-def DVRs out there. Especially when you combine it with an HD Fury2 to convert it to HDMI...

    I don't know why the HD-PVR is the only capture card capable of high-def (1080i). HD Fury2 adds HDMI (with HDCP). Sure, it's only 1080i, but how many other high-def capture solutions are out there? For just over $500, you can get one that does HDMI/HDCP as well.

    (HD Fury2 converts HDMI to Component or VGA. Sure it's analog, but the HD-PVR only has component inputs).

    Especially good for those of us in Canada, where we are forced to use the ultra-crappy cableboxes. (It's why people go to TiVo...).

  • by GlobalEcho (26240) on Monday November 09, @09:48AM (#30032644)

    I set up an SVN snapshot of Myth on a Mac Mini about six months ago. I wanted to save power, so the Mini runs both the backend and the frontend. If you like, you can see a full description [boonstra.org] of how I did it. (The guide is out of date in the sense that I resolved jumpy playback issues by reducing the priority of commercial-flagging jobs.)

    It's been wonderful. I get full HD video and convenient scheduling. I've had exactly zero crashes, and the automatic commercial skipping has been very reliable (maybe one mistake every 5 or 10 shows). I also really enjoy the ability to watch TV on any computer in the house.

    Right now, I'm working here and there on integration with Plex [plexapp.com] because I'd like to have all media in just one interface.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      uhhh...in case you haven't figured it out, that's kind of the roots of slashdot. But as a feminist, I certainly agree that they don't necessarily focus on the right issues, such as gender roles in computing, programming languages designed by women, breastfeeding keyboard layouts, etc.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 08, @11:00PM (#30028560)

      Given XBMC is not a DVR, and MythTV is, yes, those of us who don't steal our content still use MythTV.

      • I don't know if XBMC is or not, but Mediaportal [team-mediaportal.com] sure is, and Mediaportal + XP = about the easiest to use homebrew DVR I've ever tried. Like the above poster I tried MythTV and just couldn't keep it running for any length of time, and Mediaportal is easy peasy and so far pretty stable.

        Oh it is Open Source [team-mediaportal.com] too, if you care about playing with the code.

      • steal

        You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          The very court case that led to the concept of fair use is about recording television content. Get your facts straight. Recording content in Myth is a direct relation to Sony v. Betamax which was, you got it, about time shifting, which is what a DVR/VCR are.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            Recording content in Myth is a direct relation to Sony v. Betamax

            In more recent years at Sony, the left hand might not know what the right hand is doing, but I don't think they had this problem back in the '80s. You meant Sony v. Universal [wikipedia.org], which is colloquially known as the "Betamax case" or "Betamax decision."

        • Fuck that! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by thijsh (910751) on Monday November 09, @05:28AM (#30030668)
          Recording transmitted content has been a much used fair use right since the invention of the tape deck... And since then the industry has complained about, and tried to take away that right by imposing limits on each new technology that does basically the same.

          It's basically a fancy VCR! There is nothing wrong or illegal with it... what is worrying though is that geeks are actually scared of exercising their rights, and are scared of legal repercussions by companies that are taking away your rights.

          Why is it that when it comes to media people are scared to stand up for their rights, but when someone tries to 'limit free speech' all hell breaks loose... It's both a right, as is the right to be safe from unwarranted legal action that will bankrupt you whether you're right legally and/or morally.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          records transmitted content (as well as media shifting) which typical is not allowed

          It's times like this that I wish "Wrong" were one of the moderation options. Because you are. You've heard of TiVo, right?

    • by nick0909 (721613) on Sunday November 08, @11:09PM (#30028620)
      I have had it running via knoppmyth for a year, which I believe ran Myth .20 and just last week upgraded to Mythbuntu running a .22 pre-release version. It works great as a DVR, and the recent upgrades and changes have made it even better. I don't have many issues at all, and really enjoy the web frontend that lets me adjust my recordings, files, settings and schedules. A few friends have Windows media PCs and one is looking hard at switching over because their machine has gotten no innovation in the past two years while Myth has continued to improve.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        No innovation? My experience with Windows Media Center is that it has gotten to be useless, because it respects the copyright flag. It used to be that this meant that you cannot record HBO, but now, the big four are using it. Of course, my Media Center PC stopped working six months ago, and I was so dissatisfied, that I just replaced it with standard XP. So, in the past six months, it is possible that they have fixed the "we won't record anything but PBS" policy of theirs.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      I still use it.

      It's not without it's warts, but they're pretty easily hidden, and my wife and daughter both love it.

      I've never used XBMC - how good it it's PVR capabilities? For scheduling does it support Schedules Direct, or some other listings service (or does it require screen-scraping of some sort?)

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        XBMC is a media front-end, it has NO recording capabilities nor will it apparently. Rather than reinventing the wheel the developers intend to make it easy to interface with other back-ends, including Myth. As front-ends go though it ROCKS and I am able to access all of my MP3, DVD\BD rips (MKV), and many streaming audio stations. I look forward to XBMC getting some MAME support (pretty please), and for there being some sort of back-end PVR thing for it to interface with...

      • by gregmac (629064) on Sunday November 08, @11:50PM (#30028924) Homepage

        I tried using XBMC on an Asrock ION 330 as a frontend for a while. Basically, it looks amazing (especially compared to Myth 0.21), and has some nice things like animations. It was dirt simple to get working with the hardware, including an MCE remote (as in, I basically had to do nothing).

        The bad: it's not a DVR at all. It has half-baked myth backend support - in that it is supposed to understand the streams and be able to play content. However, you have to go into a menu item called "Scripts" and then start "Mythtv" from a list there, before navigating to recordings. It has no support for scheduling or doing anything besides playing back recordings. I ended up just making it look directly at the Recordings directory on my myth box and playing back files from there (note, I use a script there to symlink the mythtv recording files to their actual names).

        The ugly: Due to the high potential, I started digging in more to see if there was anything I could do to help out, such as work on the myth backend support. What I found is that entire project has been mothballed, and they are working on a grandios rewrite of a generic PVR layer, and then later on top of that will have Mythtv support. Not a TERRIBLE plan, but 1) it's a huge plan, that will take a long time before it is even remotely usable, 2) it means the PVR has to be lowest common denominator support, combined based on what all the PVR backends they support have. It also means the devs are rejecting patches to the existing myth support, because it is not relevant in the wake of the new PVR backend.

        On top of that, the architecture is sadly lacking. With apologize to XBMC devs, as I'm about to call your baby ugly, but It very much shows its organic and basic roots. The actual menu items are hardcoded into the theme, and intertwined with the code in the back. To do something that should be simple, like add another menu item to the main menu, from what I can tell you have to: 1) modify the core code to understand the command, 2) modify the theme to add in the button - which includes changing the x,y coordinates of all buttons below that one that now need to be shifted, and adjusting the animation code so it knows the positions of all the buttons. It's possible it is simpler than that (I didn't actually try), but from looking at the code, that's what it looked like to me, and so I lost interest due to the amount of effort and non-reusability (eg, my Mythtv button wouldn't be accepted as a patch, and I'd have to redo this anytime I installed an update).

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          All fair points.

          For one, you are correct about the Live TV support. One of the benefits of having such a large community is that we get a multitude of third-party plugins, scripts, skins, etc. That is also a problem in itself though, because they are often half-finished and poorly implemented. The MythTV frontend is such an example, though it has recently been picked up an greatly improved by our own dtierney.

          The DVR rewrite is much more than that, it is an entire add-on framework that makes development mor

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Not trying to create flamebait, But honestly does anyone still use it.

      Yes. It's buggy and configuration is horrendous, but now it's going the only real problem I have is that it tends not to update the database properly when a table changes in a new version (e.g. mythbuntu seems to assume that you don't have a root password on the MySQL database).

      That said, I'm not going to be upgrading to 0.22 until the current season of my girlfrend's favorite shows finishes, because I'll be in trouble if she misses some due to software changes.

    • I ran MythTV for six years. The last year I've used SageTV. I got sick of MythTV locking up, crashing, and the constant non-stop twiddling with my configuration because I could never get things quite right.

      SageTV isn't much better. I spend a lot less time twiddling, but it crashes and freezes about as often as MythTV used to. I'm still looking for that HTPC that just works. I haven't found it yet.

      • by Abcd1234 (188840) on Sunday November 08, @11:43PM (#30028866) Homepage

        I ran MythTV for six years. The last year I've used SageTV. I got sick of MythTV locking up, crashing, and the constant non-stop twiddling with my configuration because I could never get things quite right.

        SageTV isn't much better. I spend a lot less time twiddling, but it crashes and freezes about as often as MythTV used to. I'm still looking for that HTPC that just works. I haven't found it yet.

        You sure these aren't hardware-related problems? I've had a dual-tuner, split FE/BE Myth system running for, oh... two years now?... with absolutely no problems. Any crashes I've had occurred early on, and have been hardware related (ie, hard disks failing), or problems with Linux itself (XFS+LVM causing hardlocks, bugs in ivtv resulting in tuners dying, etc). 'course, it helps that once I had a working configuration, I didn't touch it at all (ie, no OS updates, etc).

        As for fiddling... honestly, I have no idea what you're doing with your system that requires that kind of care and attention. Again, I've been running a Myth system for two years, and it's required basically zero care and feeding once I got the system up and running and working the way I wanted (granted, that took a bit of time early on, particularly on the frontend, getting third-party software working right, tweaking the remote configuration, etc).

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        I'm going through the same. I've been using Myth for maybe 3 or 4 years (starting with 0.20-beta something). It was relatively stable, but did crash once in a while. Mostly what was driving me insane is for the past few months, it would stop responding to the remote for a few minutes, then suddenly play back everything that just happened. So you'd hit fast-forward, and nothing would happen.. hit a couple more times... then suddenly a few minutes later, it would skip forward several times. Lirc was seeing th

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I'd use it WITH XBMC once the Myth backend is a bit easier to configure. As it stands now I'm more than happy to DL my TV content - and yes I still have a damned cable sub with premiums and a TIVO attached to it. I just find that torrenting a show is easier and quicker. This is no more "theft" than running Myth with an ad removal program IMO.

      Anyway, I understand the pain of setting up a Myth box having TRIED to do it myself. Maybe time to try again? Many folks I know are using Windows for much the same thin

        • While there is a legal distinction, is there really a moral distinction between recording the show on your own DVR versus downloading a copy someone else recorded?

          My TiVo HD records Mythbusters every week, but around 6 hours later my media server goes out to the internet and grabs a copy of the same episode. I could just script a few tools like kmttg does to rip the content off the TiVo and transcode to a format of my preference, but why bother when someone else has already done it for me and at the same time cut the commercials for me?

          Yes, technically what I'm doing is illegal, but morally I can not see any way this is any different than if I was to waste my time scripting and waste my CPU time processing my own recordings in to the same end result.

    • I've been running it for ages without major problems. The only problem I have is every time I upgrade the kernel I need to rebuild the driver for my tuner, but that's no biggy - got that scripted - and it's nothing to do with MythTV per se.

      Sure, it was a bitch to set up the first time, but since then it's been stable and awesome and having done it once, I'm pretty quick at setting it up for others.

      I too use XBMC, but only as a quick and dirty way of using an Xbox as a frontend. It just doesn't come close as

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Freevo is similarly stagnated, they've been working towards 2.0 for years. VDR handles the backend, but is lacking a nice 10-ft frontend. Moovida looks promising but is currently lacking a TV recording backend (combined with VDR, it may be the ideal solution).

      I'm currently using Freevo, but starting to become frustrated at the broken plugins and limitations in its input (can't assign events to Ctrl key sequences which are generated by some of the Windows Media Centre oriented media keys on my wireless keybo

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      MythTV seems stagnated in development, even with this release, and seems bulky and awkward. Are there any other viable alternatives for home TV boxes/media boxes, that *don't* include a console in any way (xbox media centre, PS3, Wii, etc...)

      I'm pretty happy with myth, but you are right, forward progress has slowed. To the point of ridiculousness.

      For example, the devs recently refused to accept patches for the support of R5000-modified tuners [nextcomwireless.com] - tuners which are perfectly legal under the DMCA because they only modify the tuners that do not include access control (if the box has access control, typically 4C on firewire, the company will refuse to make the modification because of the DMCA.)

      The reason the devs refused to accept the patches?
      Assumpt [mythtv.org]

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Put camera on TV. Put mic in room somewhere. Use TV as display. Voila, video phone in your livingroom. That was the idea.

Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love. -- Charlie Brown