Caffeinated Alcoholic Drinks May Be Illegal 398
Anonymusing writes "The FDA has announced an investigation into the safety and legality of alcoholic beverages containing caffeine. As a Wall Street Journal blog reports, two major beer companies, MillerCoors and Anheuser-Busch, stopped producing caffeinated alcoholic drinks last year after reports surfaced of increased negative effects compared to caffeine-free alcohol. CNN notes that, according to FDA rules, 'food additives require premarket approval based on data demonstrating safety submitted to the agency' — and caffeine is a food additive. The 26 targeted beverage makers have 30 days to respond."
Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:2, Insightful)
Or is that not going to be available either?
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:3, Insightful)
Since is only looking at pre-mixed drinks; you're free to mix vodka and red bull if you want, and in fact bars are free to mix them for their patrons as well.
Just try and take my Espresso Stout away!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
The truly awful thing is that, if this kind of law was enacted, the drinks it would actually kill would be wonderful, rich microbrew espresso stouts and imperial coffee stouts. Outlaw Coors Light if you must, but DO NOT FUCK WITH GOOD BEER.
Finally, the most damning argument against this sort of law of all is that stupid frat boys and girls will still wind up doing stupid things no matter what they're drinking. So what's the point eh?
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:1, Insightful)
We tried banning cannabis, cocaine, heroin, and a laundry list of other drugs as well. It hasn't worked out any better.
Actually, out of all of those the only one we've banned is pot. The others are restricted, but legally available from your local pharmacy. Translation- it's good to be a pillhead, but stay away from the stuff that grows naturally, it's "bad" for you.
Along a similar line, if caffeine is an "additive" then how exactly does it get into cofee and tea? Doh!
Besides, while the FDA might be able to put a little pressure here, caffeine is already pre-approved for general consumption and doesn't require individual approval. If their beef is that it hasn't been approved for use with alcohol, then the FDA is out of luck since they don't have control over booze... that belongs to the BATF.
Re:Rum and coke (Score:5, Insightful)
How long has this been around? Probably as long as coke. So now they think it should be made illegal. Idiots.
No, sorry, the summary is really short on vital information. Rum'n'cokes are not on trial here. There is a standard called GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) that can be met, and rum'n'cokes fit this standard. And no one "thinks they should be illegal" - this is an announcement of a start of an investigation, not an announcement of a new law. That investigation MAY lead to a law, but it may not.
These are NOT rum'n'cokes they are talking about. "Sparks" (a Miller/Coors product), one of the products that is being reformulated, had as much alcohol as a can of beer but as much caffeine as a "stay awake" pill. The proportion of alcohol to caffeine is the issue. Think "rum'n'coke with a 'no-doz' pill chaser". Have a half-dozen of them and the caffeine will have you so hyped up you'll feel normal, or damned near it. A half a dozen rum'n'cokes would put you under the table - a half dozen of these little beauties would have you driving through the front door of the bar into the table while convinced that was your garage. Your coordination and function is shot to shit but you have enough energy to feel normal.
This is largely the same risk as people mixing Red Bull with alcohol, except in this case breweries are setting the proportions. You can't regulate stupid - college kids will always do stupid things like this - but at issue here is whether to ask companies to refrain from making this proportion intentionally. Faced with the evidence in the investigation, several manufacturers have voluntarily (as in, not under coercion from the Government) discontinued this class of caffeinated alcoholic beverages because of the possibility of accidental abuse due to the fact that the caffeine-to-alcohol ratio in these beverages tends to conceal the effects of the alcohol.
I'm not totally in favor of laws like this, but this isn't a law. At least not yet. It's an investigation that may or may not lead to a law. At that point, I'm still not sure about a law, but at least the risks would be identified and documented. Then manufacturers would probably just pull the product based on the information given before a law was even passed (and some of them already did!).
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:1, Insightful)
While they're at it, can they at least get some regulations about caffeine labeling on beverages? I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets really twitchy above a 350 mg dosage, and the fact that most "energy drinks" don't specify how much ("about a cup of coffee" is not a measurement, FFS) is really annoying.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:2, Insightful)
Karma be damned: Yes, it has worked out better. Sixty-plus percent of Americans drink alcohol (CBS) while only about 7% use illegal drugs (White House), and that includes marijuana.
The "war on drugs" has its problems to be sure, but it certainly does reduce drug use in the general population if only because it chokes the supply.
Re:Shoot, there goes my Irish Coffee. Is Decafe ok (Score:5, Insightful)
Potential disaster or not, as long as people are making an informed and deliberate choice I fail to see the need for government action.
Possibly because the informed part is often missing.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:4, Insightful)
What I was doing was strongly condemning the attitude of a publicly funded scientist who seems to believe that it is his duty to paint recreational drug use as a bad thing regardless of whether or not it is genuinely harmful.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:2, Insightful)
It doesn't choke the supply.. at all.
The only good the war on drugs has done is indoctrinated the public into believing that at all illegal drugs are evil and will steal your soul.
Absolute Truth (Score:4, Insightful)
Though I don't think it's any business of the FDA.
Is it too much to ask for a society that lets people make their own mistakes? Must we be hemmed in by the moral and ethical mistakes of the stupidest amongst us? How long must the law protect us from ourselves? Have you as a public been fooled into thinking I'm unaware of the dangers of smoking, carousing, and general debauchery? I assure I'm well aware, and I don't care. Please stop making thing illegal for my own good. I'm old enough to choose to make my own mistakes. As should you be.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:4, Insightful)
So you've forced some people not to use a harmless substance at what cost? Billions of dollars wasted. Thousands killed by gangs and cartels. Millions of fellow citizens locked up and living off of your money. Countless violations of constitutional rights in order to enforce the pointless bans.
Prohibition is a disgrace and you've got to be either an idiot, or making money off it to argue otherwise.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:1, Insightful)
Not that this is how it should be, but yes, it does stop the supply somewhat.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:2, Insightful)
Most people especially the fat ones probably won't pass FDA toxicity tests. Lots of toxic stuff accumulates in fat over the years.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:3, Insightful)
Go to your nearest college campus. It's practically a black market emporium, whether you need PILLS HERE (uppers, downers, stimulants, concentration enhancers, etc.) or any number of other recreational drugs.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:2, Insightful)
I Kids who play video games to counter boredom often times grow up to ring up your order, have too many kids who have a shitty childhood, and also supply drugs to people who shouldn't get it. Kids who do drugs grow up to be scientists or programmers.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:3, Insightful)
So, you don't care about what that's going to do to the cholesterol levels of those poor starving people.
At least we can feed them lean people, instead. I have a neighbor who's out running every morning. He doesn't have much meat, but what's there is probably healthy, if a bit stringy.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a large number of people here (myself included) that wouldn't know where to find drugs if they wanted them this week.
That's just because you don't want any this week. If you did, you'd know.
I don't want any this week, either, but I know someone who would know, if I did want any.
See, I don't think we've done anything, because the simple fact of the matter is that most people don't actually want to do anything harder than pot (which is why we should legalize it). I've never liked pot, but I've experimented considerably beyond that, and you know what? Drugs suck. I don't think they should be illegal, but I also don't think we are really reducing users any, because the vast majority of people who try them don't keep doing them.
Alcohol, for all its ills, is very easy to use and very easy to dose correctly. Mistakes still happen, but the truth of the matter is that doing a little of it feels good, and then it starts feeling bad and worse and worse the more you do. There is a very large swath of dosage of that drug that is just plain unpleasant, and that is usually enough to keep people from hurting themselves on it. Even so, people--usually novice users of it--sometimes go too far. No matter though, because when that happens, you just take them to the hospital and get their stomach pumped.
I say "no matter" because when you decide to do that, you're not deciding to go to jail after the hospital. And that is am important difference between legal drugs and illegal drugs.
Now, there are some people for whom the unpleasantness of drunkenness is not dissuasive. They will keep using until they are addicted. The same is true with any other drug you can think of--some people can't or won't control themselves, and you can't stop them from destroying their lives with substances. They are weak people, even when they are our friends and family members, and they get what they deserve.
Maybe it's in their character; maybe it's in their genes, but they are going to die in a gutter whether drugs are illegal or not.
So why do all of us have to have our rights trampled and lose our sovereignty over what we do with our own bodies just to vainly try to save degenerates who are not long for this world and are only trivially affected by these laws?
You, Mr. Freeman, have obviously not tried enough drugs or been around enough users to have any idea what you're talking about.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:2, Insightful)
Now on the other hand if you do decide you REALLY want to sell that. You can jump through their hoops performing studies to demonstrate how your specific caffeinated alcoholic drink is safe. If they then approve it based on those studies then you are all good for selling it.
Their beef, as it stands right now, is that on one bothered to check with them first before just mixing stuff and putting it up for sale. This isn't some OMG WE MUST BAN THIS ITS KILLING OUR CHILDREN HALP DEA! This is just the FDA saying "hey you broke the rules, the very well known and publicly available rules that helps us ensure that stuff sitting on the shelf for sale won't kill you."
Extended effects (Score:4, Insightful)
I've heard LSD called the drug that keeps on giving. So even if the drug itself is no longer in your system, there could be mental effects for a month after.
I can't comment on natural marijuana, but I did take synthetic THC (Marinol) during chemotherapy. I wasn't getting much effect from single-pill doses, so one night I tried two pills spaced two hours apart (which was still well within the prescribed dosage). A couple hours later I was hit with unpleasant hallucinations and distortions of time (my blog entry [blogspot.com]). My body returned to normal overnight, but my brain was well scrambled for at least a week.
So I don't think it's crazy to say some drugs could have an effect for longer than they're measurable in the bloodstream. I'd like to see more scientific studies of many drugs and legalization of those that can be used with reasonable safety. Maybe natural marijuana would have been a better treatment for my chemotherapy side effects, but unfortunately in my district it's still thoroughly illegal.
Re:Shoot, there goes my Irish Coffee. Is Decafe ok (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you saying that people have no idea that they're imbibing concoctions that contain alcohol and caffeine, and that they further have no idea of the effects of those chemicals? That knowledge is the whole reason the stuff sells.
No. People buying these drinks know they have "an effect" Usually an enjoyable one at first. They do not necessarily think about that effect when pouring it down their neck. Or what happens to them when they drink a large number of these drinks.
People in their late teens/early 20s do not have a great reputation for considerd actions when in a group, vying for each other to show how much more they can drink than their friends. Perhaps it's a cultural thing, but I doubt there is that much difference between young Americans and young English adults. And drinking too many alcoholic energy drinks is more of a group activity than something you do to unwind after a hard day.
If you imagine everybody is rational and looks at consequences carefully before engaging in such activities, you really need to get out more.
Re:Absolute Truth (Score:4, Insightful)
It wasn't too long ago when the dangers of smoking or fast food weren't made aware to everybody. Some smoking ads advertised the health benefits of smoking. It's because of government intervention and regulation that you have the information you currently have, and are fully aware you're destroying your lungs and will most likely die of cancer far earlier than you would have otherwise by smoking. What makes the FDA looking into the dangers of smoking any different than the FDA looking into the dangers of caffeine mixed with alcohol? Do you trust your friendly, neighborhood, multinational alcohol corporation that much as to have them advise you of the health risks of the drinks they're trying to sell you? Making your own mistakes are one thing... having information about my health being deliberately hidden so that some corporation can make a few million dollars off of killing me is another thing altogether.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought he got sacked not for the advice per-se but for bitching publicly when the governement ignored his advice.
Re:Mines a vodka and red bull... (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, it's all about the marinade.
I have found that if you lay the runner-steaks in a shallow bowl of garlic and tamari overnight, cover it and set it in the refrigerator, it'll be both tasty and tender the next day.
Then, just before the meat is done, you add one beaten egg yolk and the juice from one pineal gland to the marinade, bring it to a simmer and use it as a reduction sauce. You can also add a tbsp of flour and rendered lard (talk to your local liposuctionist) to make a nice roux.
Re:Extended effects (Score:1, Insightful)
Seeing as THC is the pain killer substance in weed, and not the major head-tripping psychoactive chemical, I call over-active imagination. How exactly you can tell it was the pills and not the radiation that 'scrambled your brain for a week' is another matter.
How a comment full of anecdotal (you heard LSD is called something that might imply it might last longer than it should - give me a fucking break) evidence and speculation reached +5 insightful i'll never know, perhaps due to your call for more study. More study is always welcome, but not because people treat these drugs like Voodoo magic.