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Record-Breaking Black Friday For eBay's PayPal 115

Posted by Soulskill
from the conspicuous-consumption dept.
adeelarshad82 writes "eBay's PayPal division reported that PayPal processed 20 percent more transactions on Black Friday compared to last year. PayPal didn't release the total payment volume, but claimed that its Payflow Gateway system processes nearly a quarter of e-commerce, while its direct sales numbers reflect 12 percent of all e-commerce. In general, reports from a number of e-tailers and retailers indicated that consumers spent more on Black Friday than in 2008, when the United States was in the midst of a recession. However, it's still unclear whether shoppers bought more on Black Friday, when they could expect a discount on what usually is one of the busiest days in the holiday season, or whether the pattern will continue. In 2008, shoppers stopped buying in early December, a shock that the US economy felt well into 2009." How did your Black Friday turn out? Did you wait in endless lines and contribute to the trampling deaths of fellow shoppers, sit at home and help take down your favorite online retailer's servers, or eschew the process altogether?
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Record-Breaking Black Friday For eBay's PayPal

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  • by sopssa (1498795) * <sopssa@email.com> on Sunday November 29, 2009 @10:28AM (#30261202) Journal

    We don't have "Black Friday" here, but I noticed Steam has also been having five-day-long every-day-new-games [steampowered.com] discount on games, usually ranging as 33-75% discount. Since they actually have good games there on sale, with a good percentage off, it's been leading me and many of my friends to buy the games that look interesting now. People have been buying those LucasArts and THQ Complete Packs and many single games (I bought Borderlands, City of Heroes and LucasArts pack last night) Since PayPal also processes purchases for Steam, some of the increase probably comes from it too - there are hundred thousands players buying those games now.

    I didn't buy more because I didn't even know about the special day. But I bought when I saw the discounts. I'm a lazy guy so I wouldn't go fighting in stores anyway (and I hate all that crowd), but these discounts surely lead to some impulse buying on Steam. And it still continues for a few days, oh man.

    • by Fozzyuw (950608)

      Indeed. I've become a pretty big Steam user/purchaser. I love the simplicity of it and how darn fast they download (getting up to 1Mb/s speeds at times). Even purchased things I wouldn't have purchased otherwise because they where only $2-$10 so I thought I'd try them out. My biggest disappointment has to be Dragon Age: Origins. Darn thing was on sale for like 25% off or 33% off or something and I just bought it a week or two ago and I only just started playing it. doh!

      But yes, I picked up:

      • Batman: Ark
    • by kjart (941720)

      I'm in Canada and, as such, we don't have Black Friday either, so thanks for reminding me of this - managed to pick up Left 4 Dead and the THQ pack with 30 minutes remaining this morning. While the LucasArts pack was tempting as well, the THQ one was crammed full of amazing RTS games that I may have enjoyed from the ... ahem ... library in my younger days, along with a fairly new game (Red Faction: Guerilla) that sounded great but I never got around to trying. As for Left 4 Dead, that was kind of a no brain

      • by Curtman (556920) *

        I'm in Canada and, as such, we don't have Black Friday either

        Sure we do, it's called boxing day.

  • by PizzaAnalogyGuy (1684610) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @10:28AM (#30261204)
    People buy on special occasions. People buy even more when they know things will be cheap.

    Let me give you an example.

    If a pizza place advertisers for weeks that on this exact day all the pizzas will be just $2, and there will be hookers, and there will be free beer, and there will be rock music, people will come in and buy. And they will come in as a big crowd. So big that if everyone orders a combination of sweet Italian sausage, pepperoni, Canadian bacon, Capicola ham, julienne salami, Mozzarella cheese in BBQ sauce, there will not be enough for everyone. But the business will flower and they get great returns as so many people rush in.

    This same thing happens everywhere, so why not online too?
    • ...on this exact day all the pizzas will be just $2, and there will be hookers, and there will be free beer, and there will be rock music...

      In fact, forget the pizza and rock music. And the free beer.

      Ahh, screw the whole thing!

    • I've only seen 4 of your posts, and they're getting annoying already. Was that the purpose of the account?
  • I did all my online shopping Thursday morning... If not cooking, or while taking a break from the cooking, assuming the house is "decorated" enough, there is nothing else holiday related left to do.

  • Spent my day drinking with my girlfriend.

    Screw deals. Booze and women are were it's at.

  • Sorry, what? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 29, 2009 @10:46AM (#30261322)

    How did your Black Friday turn out?

    What is a "Black Friday", why is it black, why is it a Friday, and why is it important?

    • Re: (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 29, 2009 @10:51AM (#30261362)

      It's actually called African American Friday these days...

    • by gbutler69 (910166) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @11:13AM (#30261492) Homepage

      "Black Friday" is the Friday after Thanksgiving in the U.S. Thanksgiving is always the last Thursday in November. It is "Black" because retailers throughout the country count on the Christmas shopping season for the majority of their yearly profits. In other words, it is the day beginning the season when they hope to bring themselves "into the Black" (on an accounting sheet "Red" ink is used to indicate money owed, "Black" ink to indicate money made). If a retailer is "in the Red" they owe their suppliers more than they've taken in. If they are "in the Black" they have made a profit.

      As far as why it is important? IT ISN'T. Not anymore. Whether or not retailers have a "good year" is now irrellevant to the U.S. economy. I've been carefully watching what is for sale in stores and almost none of it is manufactured in the U.S. So buying a bunch of stuff made in other countries (especially using further consumer debt) will do absolutely ZERO to improve the U.S. economy. Everyone should refuse to buy anything this year except for necesseties. If you want to give gifts for the spirit of the season, buy only locally made goods and services. Here are some suggestions:

      • Hire a Maid/House Cleaning service to give the house a good cleaning for your spouse, mother, or other special person
      • Hire someone to paint a room or fix something on the home of your loved one
      • Commission the making of a crotcheted Blanket, Sweater, Afghan, from one of the many people in your local neighborhood who does such crafts
      • Hire someone to "Detail" your loved ones car
      • Hire someone to "Cater" your Holiday Dinner or Family Get together
      • Buy your loved one a "subscription" to yard mainenance/landscaping service for one year
      • Buy your father, brother, or other loved one a "Gift Card" for automobile maintenance at the local Mechanic and/or Car Dealer
      • Buy locally hand-made furniture (from the Amish or other local providers), like a wooden rocking chair or dining room table, for your loved ones
      • Hire someone to "prepare a vegetable garden" for your loved one (turn the soil, remove the weeds/roots etc, get it ready for planting in the spring and/or do the initial planting)
      • ...You get the idea...

      ANY of the above are 100% guaranteed to be better for the U.S. economy. If everyone did one of the above, the economy would be 100% back on its feet in no time flat.

      • By Jove you've got it old man! Looking objectively at Black Friday as I do from up here in Canada (our Thanksgiving is spent in mid October mostly eating Turkey -- no shopping). However your point is well taken, as I see that almost all of our goods, as yours are all from foreign manufacturers. But services are always homegrown. Well done!
      • Just don't buy any consumer electronics. That'll cover most of it.

        I know, that's heresy in the US at Christmas time.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Thatmushroom (447396)

        You could also "hire" an "editor" to "clean up" your superfluous use of "quotation marks".

      • by LordKronos (470910) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @01:04PM (#30262198) Homepage

        Thanksgiving is always the last Thursday in November.

        No, it's not. It's the 4th Thursday in November. Usually that is the last, but occasionally there are 5 Thursdays (like there was in 2007). Thanksgiving will always fall in the range of Nov 22nd to 28th.

        • by toddestan (632714)

          Actually, that's only been the case since 1942. Before then, it was the last Thursday of the month. The reason it was changed was that retailers wanted a longer holiday shopping season, so FDR changed Thanksgiving to the third Thursday of the month, thinking a longer shopping season would help the economy (really!). After a couple of years with much protesting (and no real boost to holiday sales), it was changed to the fourth Thursday of the month as a compromise.

          Interestingly, not all the states went al

      • That would not work. You owe to much, for example to the Chinese. The only reason they allow that, is because you keep buying. If you stop buying, they'll want you to pay your debt. You don't want to go there. Also, the worldwide economic crisis was caused by foreign banks buying American crap, otherwise it would have just been an American problem of overconsumption. Financial packages of bad mortgages. So a solution is not for Americans to buy less foreign crap, but for foreigners to buy less American crap
        • I'm calling your bluff. Let's go there. Let's see where things end up.
          • The only one bluffing is you, because your proposal is a fantasy. Just pay your debts, please.
            • Haven't got any. I, unlike you, live within my means. Still, my point remains valid. There is absolutely NOTHING in it for the average American to continue to go an buy things for Christmas in order to prop up the economy. That is a fantasy that far too many have been sold on for far too long. Frankly, there is not one thing imported that this country needs (besides Oil). All the rest of the crap everyone buys is a bunch of over-marketed hype. Shove it up your ass!
            • ...who are you going to send to collect? Anyone? Buehler?
            • How did things get this way? How did the U.S. go from being the world's preeminent manufacturer to today? You would like everyone to believe it is because Americans are Lazy and Stupid. Sorry, but, you are in for a BIG SURPRISE.

              It happened because, in this country, people gave a damn about one another and so pushed/fought for worker protections, health care, job safety, living wages, and a modicum of respect. They fought (with their blood) to not have factories dumping toxic pollutants into their water su

            • The only one bluffing is you, because your proposal is a fantasy. Just pay your debts, please.

              If the US gets to the point where it seriously considers defaulting on all those t-bills, everything will already be so fucked up that the rest of the world will already be in too bad of a shape to do anything about it.

        • We don't necessarily want to go there because it would be somewhat ugly for all the countries involved, but it would actually hurt U.S. creditors more than the U.S. They say, "if you owe the banks one thousand dollars, you have a problem; but if you owe the banks one billion dollars, the banks have a problem." The U.S. creditors are sitting on nothing more than a huge pile of paper promises by the U.S. to pay. If U.S. defaults, the major consequences would be a large jump in prices on imports, including oil

          • It would be in the long term interest of all involved parties for U.S. to slowly pay off its debt by gradually re-balancing its economy to manufacture more and to buy less chinese junk.

            Do you honestly think that will happen? I certainly don't. US politicians have no interest in increasing taxes and decreasing spending because that doesn't get them votes. US citizens have no interest in buying less Chinese junk because their self-identity comes from being consumers, and because the vast majority of them have lived most of their lives in personal debt and they have less and less ability to get out of debt.

            The resolution to this situation is going to have to be painful, because no interes

      • by Troy (3118)

        While these are all very good ideas, you're way overselling your case by saying that Black Friday is irrelevant to the US economy. The US economy does not solely consist of manufacturing. We've lost a lot of manufacturing over the years, and that has hurt us.

        Nevertheless, you're forgetting about the people working the retail floor in some capacity, management at the store level (and above), support staff for management, warehouse workers, their management (and support staff), shippers (like truck drivers),

        • by gbutler69 (910166)
          Well, as someone who created the software that managed the sales, finances, inventory, customer relationships, etc for a national retailer, I can say, without a doubt, that without Christmas, the company was a bust!
      • by Neoprofin (871029)
        As someone who spent many years in retail, the Christmas season is a big money maker but it in no way accounts for the majority of any retailers profits. Calling it "Black Friday" is, for many retailers, an entirely recent thing and as best I know it's making reference to other days such as Black Tuesday for the panic and chaos associated with ever earlier opening and more stress and violence. Major retailers rarely operate at a loss, and they certainly didn't start while I've been in the job market.

        Wiki [wikipedia.org]
        • Woops! Replied to wrong parent.

          Well, as someone who created the software that managed the sales, finances, inventory, customer relationships, etc for a national retailer, I can say, without a doubt, that without Christmas, the company was a bust!

          • by Neoprofin (871029)
            Speaking from my store (as that's the only one I'm intimately knowledgeable about) an average weekday would gross the store approximately $85K, a weekend closer to $120K, for the Christmas shopping season pop the numbers up about 30%, but take into account keeping the store open 2-3 more hours a day, adding 20-30 new employees (normally around 200 full and part time) as well as increased hours for all of the part timers who otherwise wouldn't be working on given days. Day after Thanksgiving would usually pu
      • by Anachragnome (1008495) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @06:55PM (#30264454)

        I've been trying to get my extended family to stop buying ITEMS as gifts for years.

        Services, or better yet, EXPERIENCES, are something most people will remember for a lifetime. Often, people cannot even remember WHO gave them an item for Christmas.

        The really nice thing about services/experiences, as a gift, is that you usually know who is benefiting from the purchase. Buy someone a round of golf at the local course? The guys working there at the course benefit. Buy someone a trip to Catalina Island for the weekend? The people that live there benefit. It keeps the money in OUR economy (unless you're buying someone a trip to Uruguay...but, hey, Urugauyans need money too. At least you know it is going to them and not some anonymous corporate shareholder).

        Giving someone an experience...well, it is the gift that keeps giving regardless of time or place. You simply think about it to continue enjoying it.

        My usual gift to the family is a lavish, one-of-a-kind Christmas dinner (I used to be a chef). Last year it was a cream-based bouillabaisse made with green-lip mussels, soft-shelled crab, sweet scallops, jumbo prawns, fresh Copper River Salmon and served with the best San Francisco sourdough bread I could get my hands on (not that crap from the supermarket...I prowl the city looking for the real stuff).

        Sure, it was an object, but it was the experience of eating it with each other that my family remembers. And I know it isn't sitting, forgotten, in the back of the closet (at least I sure hope not!).
           

      • by slaingod (1076625)

        Just because you buy something that was made in a foreign country doesn't mean that anywhere near the majority of that money goes to the foreign country. Retail salaries, rental/construction of stores, sales taxes, truck/rail transportation, etc. all contribute to the US economy.

        I don't disagree that 'buying American' isn't better, but it isn't catastrophic either. Pushing gift cards for services is pretty bad IMO as well, since a large percentage of gift cards are never used. You would almost be better

        • I agree that it's not *just* about "Buying American". The more important point is, you/we don't need to, and it is not desirable for ourselves, nor the economy as a whole, to continue to purchase a lot of useless junk manufactured in foreign countries using ever increasing amounts of consumer debt. If you really want to help the economy, then buy as local *as possible* (sometimes it isn't possible for something you need). Don't fall for all the marketing hype that says "you just HAVE to have this or that".
  • by Lumpy (12016) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @10:56AM (#30261386) Homepage

    I went to ZERO stores. I spent all my money online. I got deals from newegg that worst buy and the others could not touch even after shipping. Plus I did not have to stand in line for hours to get a chance as a cupon to buy a item, or elbow idiots in the face to stop crushing my wife. 4 years ago was the LAST time we went to a store on Black friday. She suffered 2 broken ribs and I had to physically assault 10 people to protect her from more harm.

    I'm never going into a store for a black friday thing ever again, I can get better deals, save more, and do it in comfort away from the mobs of morons that lose all social ettiquette like not crushing people for some stupid shiny.

    • by InlawBiker (1124825) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @11:11AM (#30261480)

      I agree. I was up early and on a whim went to the local Walmart to check out this "Black Friday" phenomenon. It was a ridiculous mess of rude people and massive lines. I got a coffee and went home, and calculated that most of the deals at Newegg are exactly the same and sometimes cheaper, minus the long lines and degrading experience. In any case, it'd be worth it to spend some extra money to AVOID Black Friday crowds.

      It was a fascinating experience but I won't do it again.

    • by tepples (727027)

      I got deals from newegg that worst buy and the others could not touch even after shipping.

      Even after return shipping when you receive the product and find it defective? There's a Best Buy a block away from where I get groceries, so I can return something next time I'm out grocery shopping without having to pay UPS beaucoup bucks.

      • by Cylix (55374)

        There are a lot of retailers that will soak the cost of a return shipment item. I know several that include the shipping label with the package should you decide to use it.

        I know some that will just soak any cost to keep you a customer.

        While you can't find every super open ended policy published it is still entirely possible to review the written return policy prior to purchasing.

    • I went to zero stores. I went to zero online retailers. I just enjoyed watching all the mayhem from my computer screen.
  • Must have sucked to be a walmart greeter on black friday. Good to see that online sales are becoming more of the norm.
  • That's what eBay/PayPal is known for anyway.
  • by alex_guy_CA (748887) <`alex' `at' `schoenfeldt.com'> on Sunday November 29, 2009 @12:24PM (#30261902) Homepage
    Yesterday I was cold (older houses in California are not insulated, so even though it is only 55 degrees Fahrenheit outside it is still freezing in my office.) I thought, I should go buy some long underwear. Then I remembered what day it was, and put on a hat instead. Also, a friend from Japan posted on Facebook "What is black Friday?" My answer: "It is a day Americans commemorate the blackness of their souls by leaving what should be the joy of the company of their families to spend money they don't have on shit they don't need."
  • Do you mean that those recordspending whatever moments mean that the public knows that the system is gonna crash? That they spend it before it is too late?
  • Why Me... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @12:34PM (#30262002)

    PayPal processed 20 percent more transactions on Black Friday compared to last year.

    I didn't buy anything this black friday, not even online. But I can certainly see how paypal's volume would be up - so many credit card issuer's are screwing themselves by jacking up the fees now that it makes more sense to use paypal to transfer directly from your checking account than it does to use a credit card.

    The fee that pushed me over the edge are these new "foreign transaction fees" - not "foreign currency exchange fees" but simply "foreign transaction fees" - almost all the major banks are charging a couple of percent for any transaction even vaguely outside the local borders. I bought two things on ebay via paypal but with my credit card - the transactions were back to back on my statement and one of them had a ~$1 extra tacked on for this "foreign transaction fee" because the seller was in canada - even though the statement showed identical entries for the merchant field (paypal, there address in california and their phone number in california). Even though the auction and payment was in US dollars and through paypal - Bank of America slammed me with this ridiculous fee on one charge but not the other. The next week I purchased an online game subscription in us dollars, but apparently the parent company is in germany so wham another 50 cent fee out of nowhere.

    When you can't tell at the point of sale what the total cost will be, then that is a huge incentive to move to a different method of payment where the costs are known up front. Dumbass Bank of America has lost the revenue from ~$1000 worth of monthly online purchases but they nailed me for just under $2 in abusrdist fees, hope it was worth it!

    (And when I called to register a complaint, the dumbass service representative spent 15 minutes trying to convince me that the government has made these new fees mandatory and that it wasn't BoA's fault (which is utter bullshit, confirmed on sites like the consumerist and bankrate), when all I wanted him to do was write down that I was unhappy about the fees because there was no way to know up front if the fee would apply or not)

    • Re:Why Me... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mister_playboy (1474163) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @05:27PM (#30263854)

      Banks have received government bailout money (coming ultimately from taxpayers) and have engaged in a huge program of bumping rates and fees recently to squeeze money from cardholders. It's a total farce.

      I've fallen behind on my credit card payments since I've lost my job, and I plan to go through bankruptcy since I have few assets and my credit is already ruined. I originally thought I could pay the debt back, but now I'm filled with a desire to punish the banks. How else can I hurt them except by defaulting on my debt?

      • Re:Why Me... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) on Sunday November 29, 2009 @06:16PM (#30264154)

        How else can I hurt them except by defaulting on my debt?

        Not much you can do except maximize the amount you default on.

        I've been thinking that if someone really wanted to put the screws to the banks they could take on a massive amount of debt as they neared end of life - really max out all available credit, transfer the cash and any other property to friends and family and then die with absolutely no assets left in their estate.

        • by Dripdry (1062282)

          Yeah, except when the IRS looks at the estate and sees where all that went they're going to come back to those friends and family to take it all back.

          It just isn't that easy.

          • What does the IRS have to do with it?
            • by Dripdry (1062282)

              Gifting limits.

              The IRS will help in fraud cases, I believe, and running up a debt you know you can't repay is fraud. I'm not certain if the IRS will help other companies come after those assets to collect on debt that a dead person ran up (I am not a CPA yet) but it wouldn't surprise me.

              Better be damn sure of death, though.

              • Gifting limits.

                Big deal, just pay the tax.

                I believe, and running up a debt you know you can't repay is fraud.

                Duh.

                I'm not certain if the IRS will help other companies come after those assets to collect on debt that a dead person ran up (I am not a CPA yet) but it wouldn't surprise me.

                And what's the difference between giving it to friends and giving it to a casino?

                • by Dripdry (1062282)

                  Except gift tax is different, and you could be hit with about a 70% tax on it if it's done incorrectly.
                  "Big deal, just pay the tax?" "Duh?"
                  Do you do this professionally like I do? I just want to be sure we're on the same playing field here.

                  Giving it to a friend is, again, a gift in the eyes of the IRS. They WILL see it, and they WILL tax it. You can't just get rid of your money and expect them to turn a blind eye if you're breaking the law.

                  Gambling at a casino is a patronage. You are paying for ente

                  • Giving it to a friend is, again, a gift in the eyes of the IRS. They WILL see it, and they WILL tax it.

                    You keep repeating the obvious. Your point was noted and responded to.

                    You can't just get rid of your money and expect them to turn a blind eye if you're breaking the law.

                    Not the law they care about. They have no standing.

                    Gambling at a casino is a patronage. You are paying for entertainment.

                    Receipt of stolen goods is receipt of stolen goods, doesn't matter if it was in trade or not.
                    At least if you want your argument to be consistent that is.

      • by shiftless (410350)

        I feel you man. I went out of business myself last year due to the economy and fell behind on my debt. (I was in too much debt to begin with; a hard lesson learned.) After this fiasco my once excellent credit was trashed. I ended up getting a good job and paying most of that back. Some of my creditors were easy to work with. For example, the local banks were very understanding and helpful. I made sure they got paid back in full as promised.

        But as for the two credit card companies who were always a pain in t

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Eil (82413)

      Paypal has foreign transaction fees [paypal.com] too. $0.30 + nearly 4%. I found out about this the hard way because I sold a high-value item to someone that had a Florida address, but whose Paypal account was apparently linked to a foreign bank. As a result, I paid about $30 extra in Paypal fees on a hand-made item that only had about $100 in pre-fee profit as it was. (And if you're wondering, the buyer was legit: not a scam.)

      As a buyer, you never see these fees (and the seller is prohibited from adding them only to in

      • Fuck.
        But at least, as a buyer, I'm not blindsided by it.

      • by tlhIngan (30335)

        Paypal has foreign transaction fees too. $0.30 + nearly 4%. I found out about this the hard way because I sold a high-value item to someone that had a Florida address, but whose Paypal account was apparently linked to a foreign bank. As a result, I paid about $30 extra in Paypal fees on a hand-made item that only had about $100 in pre-fee profit as it was. (And if you're wondering, the buyer was legit: not a scam.)

        As a buyer, you never see these fees (and the seller is prohibited from adding them only to in

  • It's the time of year to celebrate many different things religious or religion-derived. So true to form the marketoids come up with a name that not only ignores the origin of the celebrations but also ignores itself, instead focusing entirely on the only thing the marketoids can perceive, making money.

    Every time I see the words I cringe. How do you answer "How did your Black Friday turn out?" Well, let's see. I went to a leadership seminar hosted by Charles Manson then had lunch with Jeffery Dahmer. After

  • GLD closed at $80.31 last Black Friday and $155.06 this one. (GLD is an exchange traded fund that tracks the price of gold. One share is the price of 1/10th ounce. I use it as a proxy for the price of gold because it was quick to look up.

    That says the price of gold went up by over 43%. Since gold is essentially stable in value, it says the Dollar inflated by about 43%. So if the sales, denominated in dollars, only went up by 20%, they dropped drastically (in terms of gold or a gold-backed currency).

    (1.

    • Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by gbutler69 (910166)
      What makes you think Gold is stable in value with respect to all other commodities?
    • by Anonymous Coward

      GLD closed at $80.31 last Black Friday and $155.06 this one. (GLD is an exchange traded fund that tracks the price of gold. One share is the price of 1/10th ounce. I use it as a proxy for the price of gold because it was quick to look up.

      That says the price of gold went up by over 43%. Since gold is essentially stable in value, it says the Dollar inflated by about 43%. So if the sales, denominated in dollars, only went up by 20%, they dropped drastically (in terms of gold or a gold-backed currency).

      (1.2 * 80.31 / 155.06) -1 = -37.85% Down by more than a third.

      How does this relate to the USD, which is not gold-backed?

  • normally NE is the best. I do LOTS of business with them. more than I want to admit.

    but let me say this upfront: the concept of 'doorbuster' does not, imo, apply to online stores.

    that said, I got up an hour before 6am (pst) to be online and ready to order the netbook of my dreams.

    I had my pc setup properly and all that. at 6am I keep refreshing until the new sale price appeared. added 1 (I'm not greedy; and I'll not go into THAT rant right now..) to my cart and tried to check out. it put me into a logi

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