Somali Pirates Open Up a "Stock Exchange" 666
reginaldo writes to clue us that pirates in Somalia have opened up a cooperative in Haradheere, where investors can pay money or guns to help their favorite pirate crew for a share of the piracy profits. "'Four months ago, during the monsoon rains, we decided to set up this stock exchange. We started with 15 "maritime companies" and now we are hosting 72. Ten of them have so far been successful at hijacking,' Mohammed [a wealthy former pirate who took a Reuters reporter to the facility] said. ... Piracy investor Sahra Ibrahim, a 22-year-old divorcee, was lined up with others waiting for her cut of a ransom pay-out after one of the gangs freed a Spanish tuna fishing vessel. 'I am waiting for my share after I contributed a rocket-propelled grenade for the operation,' she said, adding that she got the weapon from her ex-husband in alimony. 'I am really happy and lucky. I have made $75,000 in only 38 days since I joined the "company."'"
Re:That's funny, expecting her share? (Score:5, Informative)
Historically, pirates (in the 1600s US/Caribbean/Europe trade route sense) observed a fairly strict code of conduct which included reimbursing investors their fair share; widows/orphans got their ex-father's share, and generally they did a lot less killing than their reputation suggested.
It sounds like modern pirates appear to follow fairly similar rules, which makes for some interesting cognitive dissonance in those who romanticize the old-school version but demonize the Somali version.
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:2, Informative)
Almost certainly better than the last one they got, ironically enough...
Most deals are better than the one the Somalians got...
That being foreign companies overfishing their waters in some areas, while dumping toxic waste in other areas*. This is a huge blow seeing as their main food source is fish.
This is not to condone their actions, but to explain why they feel justified in stealing from passing ships - since "passing ships" have destroyed their livelihood.
*The coastline of Somalia has as much coastline as the US does from Maine through Louisiana, so dumping and fishing do not necessarily imply that the former contaminates the latter.
Re:Imagine being a young Somalian, and choose (Score:3, Informative)
It's no different from any other raiding culture. (Score:5, Informative)
They're freaking pirates! This woman is an idiot if she expects any money from this. It's not like she's seeding a movie!
One man's pirate is another's Robin Hood of the High Seas.
It's not necessarily true that you should expect a person who commits some crimes against some people (even violent crimes) to commit any crime against any person. Cultures across human history have survived off of raiding fat, rich neighbors and have not collapsed due to infighting and lack of ability to trust your neighbor. These "stock exchanges" were people contribute weapons for money are not necessarily any less reliable than a Scythian making a family member a good saddle before they rode off to sack the Romans, hoping for a cut of the pillage. People can be utterly trustworthy to their neighbors while being utter bastards to outsiders. It's really the historical norm.
Now, if these people were criminals that attacked their own people, then it would be pretty strange to expect fair dealing, but as long as "investors" and "entrepreneurs" see themselves as part of the same group, then there's no reason for an "investor" to expect to be treated as poorly as the pirates' victims. After all, they aren't "criminals" within their community.
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:3, Informative)
Similar to the origin of corporate structures (Score:5, Informative)
Interestingly, this is a slightly distorted echo of how the notion of corporate structures and shared equity originated.
In the 1600's there was a bunch of money to be made in buying ships, equipping them and sending them to the East Indies to buy spices to bring back and sell.
But ships and equipment were so expensive that it was hard for anyone to rake together the capital to put forth an expedition, even though there would be a huge payoff at the end. So the idea of a 'joint stock company' was borne so people could club together to buy the ship and the necessaries. The Dutch East India Trading company effectively became the first public company in the world and paid an 18% dividend for over two centuries. Dutch law was made to allow pieces of the company to be bought and sold on a 'bourse' (house). Other people realised you could use the same idea for purposes other than buying ships. And here we are today, turned full circle albeit with more nefarious intent.
But interesting that modern equity-based capitalism was invented by the Dutch.
Several Reasons (Score:5, Informative)
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why these ships aren't arming themselves?
There are precedents in maritime law with regards to what differentiates a merchant ship and a military vessel. Also, having weapons on board presents many difficulties with respect to ships that port in many different countries with different customs and laws that apply to people that come into the country with arms.
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:1, Informative)
Places don't even allow unarmed ships of navies to dock oftentimes, much less ones that are armed. Even research vessels, such as the American one that was denied entry to one of China's docks.
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:3, Informative)
Also, shipping companies don't lose when their ships are boarded or the goods stolen, as they're all insured. Everyone knows this, even the pirates. The ones who lose are the insurance companies, but they don't really care either coz they just make up for it in higher premiums.
Piracy! It's a win for all!
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:5, Informative)
The US had no part in the Somali Civil War, which started in 1991 and marked the end of a functioning government. The US was a part of the United Task Force which entered the country in 1992 to try to prevent famine, but they left in 1993, to be replaced by UN troops.
Somalia became a failed state all on its own, I'm afraid. In fact, the US has been criticised for not doing enough.
Re:Imagine being a young Somalian, and choose (Score:3, Informative)
Those are for unemployment benefits. Most of these so-called pirates are just fisherman out of a job, you know.
Re:Gunboat diplomacy (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:1, Informative)
The US attacked a building which was hosting a meeting of the elders trying to resolve the conflict.
The US involvement in Somalia make the situation incredibly fucking worse.
Re:Several Reasons (Score:3, Informative)
They do. Blackwater offers maritime protection services. And they will use choppers or other boats to load/offload their teams and equipment.
It's a bean counting issue. Risk vs cost.
Lex Gabinia (Score:3, Informative)
Ho ho, all together.
Hoist the colors high!
Heave ho, thieves and beggers
Never shall we die!
The pirates of the Mediterranean probably sang a similar tune in 67BC, even as the Lex Gabinia was being passed in Rome. After all, their power had grown unopposed for centuries and they looted trading ships at will and plundered coastal cities with impunity. Piracy was a large, profitable, and enduring enterprise which was endemic over the entire Mediterranean, with ships attacked and ports raided even close to Rome itself.
The Lex Gabinia gave Pompey adequate forces and authority for 2 years to tackle the pirates. He needed only six months to eliminate them completely. According to Cicero: "Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring, and finished it in the middle of the summer." Piracy in the Mediterranean essentially vanished for several centuries, and only started to return during the break-up of Rome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Gabinia [wikipedia.org]
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:3, Informative)
No need to move the weapons around. All you need is a lockable room/container to store the weapons in. The host port can supply their own lock for the duration of the stay.
Re:Imagine being a young Somalian, and choose (Score:3, Informative)
Well, once you've repurposed a bunch of fishing vessels and out-of-work fishermen into combat vessels and heavily armed privateers, what do you do with them when the fishing waters are finally cleared? OF COURSE they're going to start ranging farther and farther out, and grabbing more and more vessels. This is a historically commonplace progression, with both navies and armies.
Anyway, if there was a Somali government, there'd be less fuss made about them. We'd complain to the Somali government, they'd make the right noises about how they were doing everything in their power to address the problem, and then things would just go on as before.
Re:That's funny, expecting her share? (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, these guys aren't so much as pirates as privateers.
Not true ... privateers are essentially government sponsored pirates, but not all pirates are privateers. In this case, there is no government to sanction them, so they're pirates.
Re:Behold, a free market evangelists dream takes f (Score:1, Informative)
You want the state to provide you with a family? No wonder you find libertarians puzzling.
Ask yourself, what is the state? It is an organization. A corporation is an organization, an association is an organization. But the state is different from a regular corporation or a regular association, what is this difference? The answer is that a state is sovereign and therefore has the ability to initiate violence or the threat of violence against people.
Any project you may have (food, family, health...), you can either use peaceful volontary means to achieve it, or you can use violent means. A libertarian simply prefers peaceful means and opposes violent means. Using that definition of libertarianism, I'm pretty sure you're a libertarian yourself. What you don't see is that peaceful means is the free market (volontary trade, volontary associations) while the violent means is statism (forced taxes, you have absolutely no choice, you comply or the state puts you in jail). You may believe that the violent means are the best means to reach your ends, but do not pretend that violence is actually volontarism or that volontarism is actually violence. Do not confuse the two.
Until you realize that the statist means is violence, you can not begin to grasp libertarian ideas. Libertarians for example believe that good health is better provided without the initiation of violence (or threat of violence). They may or may not be right, but I don't find this belief to be especially puzzling. I actually find the statist belief, that good health should be provided at the point of a gun, much more puzzling.
Re:Imagine being a young Somalian, and choose (Score:1, Informative)
Their waters are fished out (I can't say that I've been trawling of the coast of Somalia recently but that's the deal from what I know), no fish to speak of - no fishing boats to speak of to go after. That ship sailed years ago, it's into the aftermath of that now.
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:5, Informative)
Except the private yacht owners who often lose everything they own and who's family is force to pay the ransom by any means.
There's a British couple held hostage in Somalia right now and their boat was found stripped to the hull and floating by a British naval vessel. The ransom is $7million, but they don't think their family can come up with it, so they've been asking the British government to pony up, but that seems unlikely.
Last word is that Islamic militants may try to buy them, or take them by force, to use for political purposes.
Win for all!
Re:Imagine being a young Somalian, and choose (Score:3, Informative)
Sorry but the available data does not support your post.
The data I found about the position of the Alakrana [toolserver.org] shows that it was far away from Somali coast (way more than 200 mi). If it was Economic Zone of any country, it had to be of the Seychelles.
Of course I don't know if they were going to unload fish from Somalia coast, but you'd need some additonal data to back that statement.
Re:Several Reasons (Score:5, Informative)
I'd imagine many people have this vision of the crews being able to see the pirates coming and just gunning them down with a chaingun, but the reality is the pirates often manage to sneak up on vessels either using bad weather, blind spots or the cover of night, so many firefights would involve close quarter combat on the decks of the ship itself.
Most of your post is very good, but this is somewhat misleading. Pirates are generally in small (30') open boats with minimal radar profile and difficult to detect. Target vessels are generally intercontinental cargo ships with deck 100 feet off the water. Pirates don't sneak aboard these boats with grappling hooks, they threaten violence and the target crew lowers a boarding ladder for them.
Interestingly, the most effective pirate deterrent is the ship's fire suppression system. If you've never seen one of these in operation, it's quite impressive, and can literally hide the ship behind a curtain of water. It's completely impossible for a small boat to approach a ship with its firehoses running. The point of the pirates' RPGs is to make the captain turn off the firehoses.
Re:Paging Bernie Madoff Clients... (Score:3, Informative)
This would be the British couple that were boarded in full sight of a Royal Navy vessel that sat by and watched as the pirates kidknapped them and stripped the yacht?
Forget paying up, I want the SBS to go in and rescue them and damn the casualties that causes - on both sides. It's the only way the Navy can come out of this with any credibility at all (and that's necessary if they're to be at all effective in both discouraging future piracy and in defending the UK).