A Requiem For Saab 438
Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that auto enthusiasts across the country are dismayed by the news that General Motors is planning to shut down Saab, the Swedish carmaker it bought two decades ago, after a deal to sell it fell apart. Even with its modest and steadily declining sales, Saab, an acronym for Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolaget, or Swedish Airplane Company, long stood out as a powerful brand in spite of itself. 'It wasn't designed to be a fashion statement,' says Ron Pinelli, president of Autodata, which tracks industry statistics. 'It was designed to provide transportation under miserable weather conditions.' Many Saab owners consider the brand's glory days to be the 1980s, when Americans began buying cars again after a recession and energy crisis. 'The cars were communicative,' says Pinelli. 'They didn't try to numb the experience like cars do today.' The cars had odd touches and appealed to those who appreciate the unconventional. Swedish engineers assumed drivers would be wearing gloves, so they designed big buttons for the dashboard. Though the cars were compact, with long hoods and short rear ends, there was plenty of headroom inside. Now Saab, a brand that once had one of the clearest identities in the industry, seems headed for extinction just as automakers are searching for more distinctive designs to help set them apart. 'It's a shame that Saab is a victim,' adds Pinelli."
And why do I care? (Score:5, Informative)
I've got an idea... how about everybody who liked Saabs go out and order a Fisker Karma [fiskerautomotive.com] or the Tesla Model S [teslamotors.com]!
Bill
Re:Two questions from ignorance (Score:5, Informative)
It was owned by an investment company called Investor. And they were just interested in cashing in money.
It seems like GM was mostly interested in technology and mot much in brand identity. The last decade of Saab has really went from something with at least some identity to something very average that can't compete with Toyota or other brands.
And since Saab was just another brand in the GM portfolio - and a small one - they weren't too keen on promoting it. Selling an Opel or Chevrolet would add more to the GM identity.
Re:I guess you could call it a ... (Score:3, Informative)
Latest news is that Spyker haven't given up completely yet. They are right now handing in a new bid and it's up to GM to decide if they want to sell.
New bid.. (Score:4, Informative)
It was GM themselves that turned down the offer from Spyker - seemingly a company that is in financial difficulty doesnt need the money. The timing of the decision speaks volumes as well.
the latest news is that there is another bid as of today from Spyker, so the nail isnt quite in the coffin just yet.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article6321526.ab
GM has woefully mismanaged SAAB, played accounting games and not used the company in the way it should.
SAAB has come up with fantastic technology over the years especially around safety, I think the engineers there have alot to offer in the future for environmental cars.
They can't die fast enough... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Let's just be clear on what they mean here (Score:5, Informative)
You are obviously not much of an engineer.
Front-heavy front-wheel-drive cars had great traction in the snow. The reverse-engine placement made a reliable and compact power-plant. Nothing special about it, and I worked on them for years, models from the '70s through the '06. There were no special parts required for brake pad replacement, just a simple tool to rotate the piston which is quite common these days (see VW for instance.) This system has become more widely because of its superiority - the emergency brake uses disk brake pads and is integrated with the caliper, offering reliable and the best possible hand-brake.
Saab will be missed - engineering that was obviously superior, with other manufacturers later following suit with surprisingly similar designs. Such as the now-common front wheel drive arrangement Saab began using in 1948. How about cold-rolled steel body frames with crumple zones, heated seats, the hatchback, how about a standard-production turbo? - the list goes on and on. They may not have invented each one of those items but stuck with the good stuff throughout. I am driving a '93 9000 with >195k miles for a winter rat this year. That kind of mileage is not uncommon, in fact almost expected in a Saab. What companies can suggest that kind of longevity today?
It would be a shame to see a great engineering company fail.
Re:What about the Saab Defence division? (Score:2, Informative)
Your opinion (Score:4, Informative)
"My point was that it was NEVER great."
What does "great" mean? They were not high performance in the manner of Porsche. They were not high reliability like a Japanese car. They were not luxurious like a Rolls. That's not the point.
But they were "great" at their original design goal as stated: a good car in bad weather.
Re:Over here companies can fail (Score:5, Informative)
Even Sweden will let the free market actually do its job. Kinda ironic seeing how the neocons of other governments like to describe us.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/19/report-swedish-government-to-meet-with-gm-officials-could-saa/
You were saying?
Re:They can't die fast enough... (Score:2, Informative)
GM had a majority in Saab in 1990 (51%) and bought it completely in 2000. Olds was killed in 2004. GM offers unisex cars that no one wants, both brands do not fit the bill.
Re:Two questions from ignorance (Score:2, Informative)
Rejoice! ;-) It is coming. Buick regal 2010 [insideline.com] is actually the Opel Insignia with swapped grille and logo. Initially it will be even built in Germany [74.125.95.132] moving later to Canada [gm.com].
Re:And why do I care? (Score:4, Informative)
"Frankly, if you cannot discern that SAAB was very different from the above brands, you don't know much about cars."
Yeah, right... Saab is GM just like most of the other's I mentioned. In fact, YOU need to check out how many of Saab's "very different" cars are actually just rebadged versions of the cars I just mentioned above.
Now, in the US they sell 3 cars, the 9-3, 9-5 and the 9-7. Two of the three models that Saab currently sells in the US are simply rebranded GM cars. (9-3 = Opel Vectra, 9-7=Chevrolet TrailBlazer) The last one (9-5) is actually unique to them. However, it is being replaced with a car based on the GM Eplison platform (Buick Lacross, and previously on the Pontiac G-6 and Saturn Aura). Again, nothing unique to it.
They quit selling the little 9-2 a couple years ago, which was, get this... a rebranded Subaru.
Now, genius, please tell me again how I don't know what I am talking about.
Bill
Re:Your argument is over 20 years out of date (Score:1, Informative)
Your '82 300SD outhandles an 80's Saab 900!
Thanks for the good laugh.
Bring your 300 to a local autocross, I'll bring my Saab. We'll see who sets a quicker time.
The old 900's are great cars, fantastic build quality, durability and innovative design. I own pre and post-GM cars. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But I am always sad to see a carmaker disappear, especially one that made a lot of unique contributions to the automotive world, not another appliance-like Toyota.
Saabs are no more or less reliable than any european car, they just require regular maintenance, and that's just not for everyone.
And to the person who stated that Saab only sold 50,000 cars in their best year. That's US sales. They usually sold 125,000-140,000 per year. Modest, but not miniscule.
RIP SAAB, 1947-2009.
Re:Horrifyingly poor management (Score:2, Informative)
Ford is only successful because they had a CEO who mortgaged all the company's assets for 23 billion back when there was still a credit market to be found. It's now a nice cushion that lets them lose money longer than the other car makers, but it doesn't actually make them successful, and the jury is still out on whether it will save them or not.
Re:Let's just be clear on what they mean here (Score:2, Informative)
If you have to remove the fender to do the serp belt on a NG900, yr doing it wrong. Just the fender liner...and that takes waht, 2 minutes?
$700 fuel pump? eEuro sells factory pumps for about $250.
DIC's take 5 minutes to change (they aren't cheap, but I buy a pile of used ones for back up). Balljoints are easy, but wasteful, since you have to throw out the rest of the control arm.
I personally think most Saabs are pretty easy to work on, from the c900's through the current 9-5's. But that's merely my opinion. You can own, and maintain a Saab for far less than a lot of cars, if you know where to buy parts and what you're doing with a wrench.
You can pick up a mid 90's 900 Turbo for 2 grand, put $400 into the engine, tune the ECU with open source tools (Saab drivers are all about open-source engineering) and have a 300HP car that will embarrass most cars short of a Z06 on the highway.
Re:They can't die fast enough... (Score:1, Informative)
My 99, 9-5 has never had any problems outside of general wear and tear.
In fact, recently the 9-5 was named a consumer reports best buy.
Re:Your argument is over 20 years out of date (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Let the EU buy it then. (Score:2, Informative)
GM owns it (which was dumb in the first place), so let the Swiss buy it back from GM.
errrm, now let me see what's wrong here... 1. Saab are SWEDISH, that's SWEDEN, not SWITZERLAND. 2. Switzerland are not a member of the EU anyway although they are a part of the EEA, so why on earth on your logic should the EU want to buy it anyway. But true, GM were dumb, they showed complete incompetence in managing their business and their aquisitions.
Re:I guess you could call it a ... (Score:3, Informative)
It's not Obama, shit-for-brains
It's GM
Set down your cereal bowl of paint chips and think way back to last year and two of the big 3 automakers on the brink of bankruptcy and crying out for bailout money. Bush was in control, and it was his idea to give away billions of public $$$ to bail them out as well as his banker buddies
Obama inherited an economy on the brink of total collapse. Were not much better off today, but at least we're not all forced to living in caves yet. Even the bankers that crashed the economy still live in comfort in their fancy beach houses thanks to all you that donated your homes and pensions to them.
If you want to thank someone for the loss of Saab, thank Bush. He was in charge when this shit hit the fan.
This was entirely the result of republican economics that made this mess
Here is a fun fact for you:
Before Bush, in 2000, the national debt was 18 Billion (the lowest it has been in TWENTY years). After 8 years of Bush and a republican controlled congress, and before the bailout, the national debt soared to over 1 trillion $$. THE HIGHEST IT HAS BEEN SINCE EVER !!!.
Re:I guess you could call it a ... (Score:3, Informative)
Even back in the pre-GM days, Saab used a lot of other companies' technology. The auto business is so capital intensive, its almost impossible not to run it in a global manner.
The real problem with Saab was that GM a lousy job in applying its global tech. Exhibit A is rebadging a Chevy Blazer SUV as a Saab. The 9-5 was also something like 12 years old and was just being replaced with a shared platform when Saab was killed.
Re:numb driving experience (Score:4, Informative)
That said, I still love my car, and I find it truly blissful to drive in any other occasion, but Americans really do have different driving habits and driving needs. For example, being an even six feet tall with size 12 feet (which is barely above average for American males), I am physically unable to cram legs into the well of the driver's seat of an Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio. Cars of European sizes I am literally incapable of driving.
Re:I guess you could call it a ... (Score:1, Informative)