A Look Into the Chinese Hacker Underworld 198
beachels416 writes "The NY Times gained access to a Chinese hacker-for-profit, referred to as 'Majia,' and observed him during one of his nightly 'sessions.' From the article: 'Oddly, Majia said his parents did not know that he was hacking at night [hacking is illegal in China]. But at one point, he explained the intricacies of computer hacking and stealing data while his mother stood nearby, listening silently, while offering a guest oranges and candy.' At another point Majia spoke about the recent Google attacks, and claimed to have particular knowledge of the exact vector used. Nothing too new, but an interesting read nevertheless."
Lots of content (Score:5, Insightful)
To sum up the article for those too lazy to read it
A chinese guy works a day job, works as a hacker at night. Likes to stay anonymous and take money from people's bank accounts.
I guess the fact that this is a chinese guy is shocking to some new york times readers?
Perspective check (Score:5, Insightful)
The article highlights two important facts
1. Fun
2. Profitable
It's been a long time since I broke into my grade school's soda/chips/candy closet from a skylight on the roof. Sitting there drinking soda and enjoying chips, I can clearly remember how exciting (breaking in) and rewarding (chips/soda) it was. Later, I learned to respect other people's property.
So what now? ... expect the back doors to be open and the cargo gone. It's very exciting - it's very rewarding. Is it wrong - sure. Are the thieves the ones to blame - no. Not exactly. The thieves are not the ones to blame - the thieves are to be expected. It's an ongoing game where we square off with human nature - make it furn for the security side - keep building better mouse traps. Don't like this perspective? Ok - change human nature then. Good luck.
If you park a trailer in an accessible area
cracking is illegal in any civilized country (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, the NYT didn't get hold of this guy on... (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess the NYT needs to attach a disclaimer to the story, because whenever a journalist tries to interview a "hacker" I can't decide to laugh or cry. Something like this would do nicely:
Wrong word? (Score:2, Insightful)
I didn't see anything in the article about hacking. It all looked like cracking to me.
Re:Perspective check (Score:5, Insightful)
if(X>Y){
stealing = rational
} else {
stealing = irrational
}
You may be wrong about Y, but given the set of information you behaved rationally. In other words: If you feel you would benefit a net life-improvement by taking the object, it seems rational to do so. Doesn't mean it's ethical, but the debate of moral absolutes and human nature is another subject entirely.
Re:Lots of content (Score:5, Insightful)
Security researchers have identified the attacks against Google to be largely from the Chinese government [arstechnica.com], as were the politically motivated attacks [slashdot.org] against the Dala Lama and other Tibetan exiles. There is almost no doubt that the majority of the hacking that goes on in China (and elsewhere) is of the sort that TFA reports on, but linking it to the recent attacks on Google and other US government contractors is disingenuous.
Anyone here thinks it's actually a good thing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure it's not healthy if all you do are these minor thing and you keep doing these stuff for years. But it's a good inlet for kids to learn computing nevertheless.
Re:Perspective check (Score:3, Insightful)
You may be wrong about Y, but given the set of information you behaved rationally.
Reason doesn't occur in a vacuum, just as your actions don't occur in a vacuum. The rational choice is that which is objectively determined to be in the interest of your life. Thus, theft is always irrational, as it is never in the interest of your life to steal - you violate the rights of others, you make yourself dependent on the failures of others, you cannot pretend to know enough to properly assess the situation (Y), and you encourage others to violate your rights in the process.
I don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)
Why is this guy living with his mom if he's such a great and skilled hacker? Where's his money? Where's his grandiose lifestyle? What is he doing with all those computers he's woven into a bot-net? If he's making all that money, why isn't he spending it?
I wonder if we're making the Chinese Dragon out to be far more fearsome than it actually is. Why exactly should I be afraid of him, and all his Chinese brethren? Yes, they can hack, yes they can start and fight a cyber-war. But I am underwhelmed by their power if all they do is sit there day after day, coding, hacking, "making money", and not doing anything with it. And if they do eventually start and fight a cyber war, then they will end up losing the only medium that gives their life meaning. What happens to these guys when we counter-strike (because I refuse to believe that my fellow Western neckbeards would take a cyber-ass-whuppin' from the Chinese lying down)? When their networks go down and their computers are infected or taken out, what then? I can get up and leave my computer. Can they?
I'm a naive bumpkin most likely, I just fail to see how these guys are so formidable. Pathetic is more like it, like a boxer with a glass jaw. Their greatest strength is actually their weakness.
Re:Lots of content (Score:2, Insightful)
Or this piece is a Chinese govenmet sanctioned bit of propaganda. They WANT you to think that it's some individual...
Re:Perspective check (Score:3, Insightful)
It's no more settled than whether some guy 2000 years ago really died for our sins.
Nah, that's quite well settled. If he existed, he died for pissing off the Roman authorities. Bitch-slapping the money changers and uniting the poor interferes with tax revenues.
Re:But, They watched him work! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)
Someone already said it, but in many places around the world, especially china, families tend to live together.
Re:I don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)
In some foreign cultures you're expected to stay with your parents, then take care of them when they get old. If you marry, the bride joins you in the family house. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement: you're taken care of during the first part of your life, they're taken care of during the last part of theirs.
Not everyone subscribes to the "you're 18? Get the fuck out, good luck with everything" mentality so prevalent in the west.
Re:I don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is this guy living with his mom if he's such a great and skilled hacker? Where's his money? Where's his grandiose lifestyle? What is he doing with all those computers he's woven into a bot-net? If he's making all that money, why isn't he spending it?
Because it's traditional in Chinese society to live with your parents until you're married. It's becoming less common as time goes on, but I have several friends in China in their mid-to-late 20s who have good-paying careers but still live with their parents. It doesn't have the stigma that it has in the west. And he's probably saving his money up because that's prudent. Another thing about Chinese culture, prudence doesn't make you "uncool".
She's not stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
His parents know. If he hacks for money, is up late at night fiddling with computers all the time, and talks about hacking with unusual guests right in front of his mom, she knows what is going on. This is a mother with traditional, conservative beliefs who does not want to be rude and is reluctant to admit that her son is a criminal, so she ignores the entire situation. Not that unusual, and not indicative of some strange counter cultural underworld that is unique to China. Though I'm sure my folks and my friends' parents all thought our blue boxes, black boxes, and mobile (as in, in a car) collections of computers and cordless phones were all for educational purposes back in the day, and the 2600 meetings were just to hang out and drink coffee, since that's what we told them.