XML Co-Founder Joins Google, Blasts iPhone 628
XML co-founder Tim Bray has taken the job of 'Developer Advocate' at Google. Don't other companies call that position 'Evangelist?' Because he sure doesn't mince words against the iPhone in his first sermon: 'It's a sterile Disney-fied walled garden surrounded by sharp-toothed lawyers. The people who create the apps serve at the landlord's pleasure and fear his anger.
Opinion of Google is Changing... (Score:2, Interesting)
In case Google has forgotten, Apple has a lot of fans. Outright insulting Apple in this way forces people to decide, Apple or Google, and Google might not like the choice people make. After all, switching away from Apple means buying all new hardware and software. Switching away from Google just means typing in "www.bing.com".
I know which choice I'm going to be inclined to make in the future...
Walled garden it may be (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/android-version-confusion/ [wired.com]
Re:To be fair (Score:0, Interesting)
^- this
It's a huge difference when Microsoft is abusing its monopoly power to try to take over additional markets by bundling them "free" (ie: you pay for it with the OS whether you want it or not).
Whereas Apple made a good product and succeeded with it, and deserves what they get. Meanwhile they've kept things as open as possible in terms of standards, even if the iPhone device is (for arguably good reason) halfway closed.
The GP's comparison is pretty poor, but it was a nice effort from a Microsoft apologist!
Has anyone thought to ask (Score:4, Interesting)
just what the point of this hire is? Apple-bashing aside, is it just to put the shiny open-source face on Google? That didn't exactly save his previous employer [sun.com], who also hired him for apparent PR value and where he accomplished nothing of sufficient significance to merit inclusion on his Wikipedia bio [wikipedia.org].
Perhaps if Apple is very, very lucky, Google will hire Jonathan Schwartz too.
Re:He's right. (Score:5, Interesting)
But when push comes to shove, I'm growing more convinced with the iPhone/iPad they really do see the future as being closed & proprietary.
Is that why they have developed the best mobile browser to date? Pushing HTML5 instead of Flash? Contributing to webkit?
The future is going to continue to be dominated by the web. Apple provides a really good web platform in their products.
You can write any web application you want, and get people on iPhone and iPad to use it. HTML5 has great support in Safari.
You can write any full application you want for the Mac platform, using one of the best development environments in Xcode.
You can write any application you want for the iPhone and iPad, as well, using the exact same environment. The only question is whether or not you're going to be able to distribute it in the App Store. Apple has decided to tightly control that marketplace. Some of their reasoning is valid -- security issues, quality control issues, etc. Some of it has to do with branding, things they don't want to be associated with. Some of it has to do with appealing to the widest audience. And yes, some of it has to do with business.
What I would like to see Apple do, and I think they eventually will be forced by the marketplace to do this -- is to allow apps to be installed from sources outside the App Store. Google Android will push them to do this, if for no other reason than Apple can answer all critics.
Invariably, Apple tends to solve criticisms eventually, before they erode mindshare.
Consider the history of iPhone:
- Criticism #1: What, no native apps, only web apps? Solved in OS 2.0.
- Criticism #2: What, no copy and paste? Solved in OS 3.0.
- Criticisms #3 and #4. Now Android is picking up steam. What are the primary advantages people name for Android? Multi-tasking and an open marketplace.
Well, Apple is rumored to be addressing multi-tasking in OS 4.0. I'm not one of those people that berates them for not having it from the beginning, I think they tackled major problems that plagued earlier "smartphones," i.e. overly complex process management, and battery use issues. As hardware evolves, battery life is less of a problem, and I am confident Apple can solve user interface challenges.
If they did address multi-tasking and application installation, what would all of you guys bitch about? Oh, right. AT&T.
Disclaimer: I own stock in Apple and Google.
Re:What are they doing again? (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple has had absolute control of their standards (Quicktime, proprietary audio formats/encryption, device lockin (itunes only works with ipod, and will update itunes to break compatibility with any other device)... Apple has always been very aggressive about vendor lockin, and only uses "open" standards when it serves their purpose to break into a market, and quickly lose interest once they have a substancial market share (see also: embrace, extend, extinguish).
Quicktime uses 'normal' formats - H264, mp4, etc. Apple don't have any proprietary audio or video formats. You're confusing format with DRM, and there's none of that in their music either.
Palm decision to use someone else's software to manage their device is a bad move in every sense. They become reliant on the experience provided by someone else, and open themselves up to being locked out. When Apple also provide APIs for accessing the iTunes database (hell, it's just an XML file, any dev worth their salt can write a parser, and there are plenty of open-source XML parsers out there) then Palm's decision looks more like posturing and using their own customers as a weapon.
Still, many of the /. crowd fell for Palm on this, hook line and sinker. It became an issue of 'freedom' or something, and not just a shabby development decision that was almost certainly going to bite them later.
As for EEE, can you give an example? I can understand how Microsoft could do that with IE, as they had market dominance. I can't see how Apple can do that in any market but mp3 players, and clearly they've not done so in that market.
No mention of HTML5? (Score:2, Interesting)
I think Tim Bray's rant on the iPhone is rather ill-considered & rather short-sighted.
Re:To be fair (Score:2, Interesting)
I tend to agree, but that's a dangerous thing to say around here.
Re:To be fair (Score:3, Interesting)
Disagree. The root hatred of Microsoft is that they kicked everyone's ass with arguably inferior products like DOS/Windows3, VisualBasic, MS-Access and so on.
(Keep in mind all these oldschool computer guys who bet on Novell, OS/2, etc were essentially fucked when the PC world switched to Microsoft.)
Computer geeks have never really cared about the business/marketing stuff and have always sucked up to their hegemonic corporate overlords. But with Microsoft, they are fundamentally convinced the products would never have won on their own merits, so everyone cries that "they cheated!"
(Not that MS didn't cheat, but throwing a DR-DOS error message into a beta version of Windows, for example, didn't exactly change computing history. Yet the people who bet on the losers are still whining about it..)
Re:Apple fans in slashdot have come a long way (Score:1, Interesting)
And content-free "I like Macs" comments were getting modded-up to 5 within about 30 seconds.
My theory was that Slashdot was being astroturfed by the old Evagalistas, at least until they realized this dump is a circlejerk and a waste of time. They are probably now toiling away their worthless zealot existences on rededit or facebook or something.
(Seriously, a lot of mac fans are quite clearly head-cases, there's no other explanation other than deep unrepairable psychological damage to explain such devotion to a computer manufacturer of all things. I'd love to hear stories about these people's personal lives, I bet they are quite hilarious.)
Re:What are they doing again? (Score:5, Interesting)
iTunes works as long as Apple says it's ok, not if anything actually knows how to interact with iTunes. Palm does know how and kept programming to make it work. It was Apple that kept altering iTunes to purposely [slashdot.org] break [slashdot.org] that connection [slashdot.org] to wall out Palm since they didn't want to jump through Apple's hoops.
No, that's utter rubbish. There's a well-documented method for interacting with iTunes via its database. There are many third-party apps that do so, including the Amazon mp3 downloader which competes directly with the iTunes store. Palm were trying to piggy-back onto iTunes by partially emulating an iPod, which isn't something that Apple support (and why should they, any more than HP will support your Epson scanner with their scanning software), and made a huge fuss about it. Palm should have written their own code for interacting with their media player and interacted with iTunes (and any other software) through the right APIs.
Err, no. (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the folks attacking Apple have as much of a track record of being consistently and intentionally wrong. Case in point.
For example, both my Mother and my Aunt, in their 60's, want an iPad. They are not fangrrrls. One has a Mac and would prefer the pad, the other doesn't use PC's a lot but would like a simple, portable device for email and internet, and easily sharing photos of my family (since she lives in Europe).
As for the walled garden, I'd say the motives are mixed. I (and many people I know) actually like walled gardens, in some circumstances, if it helps remove bullshit from my life. Not all circumstances, of course.
I do agree the blocking of iPad -> iPhone tethering is crap, but I can't tether on AT&T as it is.
Ah, the joys of open gardens (Score:2, Interesting)
At the store, Roark had never been told that his HTC Eris has Android 1.5, nicknamed “Cupcake.” Until told by a reporter, he had no idea what features he’s missing as a result. For instance, free turn-by-turn navigation is available in the latest version, Android 2.1 (”Eclair”), but is only available to Cupcake users for $10 a month from Verizon.
Read More http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/android-version-confusion/#ixzz0iJv1DstU [wired.com]
The carriers have been fucking us for years. Half the talk on forums is how to uninstall the shitty bloatware that carriers install on the android phones. Hey, at least with an android phone you *can* do it, unlike every other motorola, nokia slow-fest.
The iphone is the best phone i've ever had. It has an alarm that works, and I can set for only weekdays. How hard is that???? It has a battery life of more than a few hours (I'm looking at you, my Samsung windows mobile phone). It has a headset with a NORMAL HEADSET JACK. It charges by plugging into my USB. How is it that such simple pleasures make this the best phone ever? Because all the others are corrupted bloatware pocket fillers, courtesy of the "carriers".
The iPhone works because Apple took on the carriers. The various Droid market is failing because carriers are worse than M$. Between you and google is a carrier. Good luck with that!
like it's with all new technologies... (Score:2, Interesting)
I think it is like with all new technologies that settel in the consumer market.
First, there are the early adopters who can - an take pride in the fact that they can - manipulate and fix those technologies.
As that technology becomes more common - more and more users are
a) not willing to invest a huge amount of time to be able to use this technology correctly and
b) dont want to rely an an early adopter to do so.
As the technology further matures, the neccessety - and with it the possibility - to maipulate and fix this technology by yourself disappears.
The early adopters loose the possibility of beeing more than just "dumb users" and feel caged because that technology has been kind of locked down.
But for the users that have by now become the majority it is most convenient to use it without having to get into it too deeply.
The early adopters find a niche (product ) where they still can test their technical skills on and the overall consumer is just happy this easy-to-use piece of technology exists.
That said:
- assuring no app can do bad things through strict quality controll
- strict guidelines for userinterface design
- limit external interfaces and provide a standard way of data exchange
sounds to me like being a good thing for serving the average user.
Walled garden construction kit (Score:5, Interesting)
One reason Android beat out Openmoko was because Google was willing to make a platform that carriers could turn into a walled garden if they wanted to, while Openmoko was designed to NOT be locked down.
Sure, technically Google isn't doing evil here. They're just enabling AT&T to do it.