Why Are Indian Kids So Good At Spelling? 534
theodp writes "Slate's Ben Paynter looks into why Indian kids dominate the Scripps National Spelling Bee, and concludes it's because they have their own minor-league spelling bee circuit (having the discipline to spell 7,000 to 8,000 words a day probably helps too!). Indian-Americans make up about 1% of the US population, notes Paynter, but this year an estimated 11% of the competitors at Scripps will hail from regional contests run by the North South Foundation. The NSF competitions function as a kind of nerd Olympiad for Indian-Americans — there are separate divisions for math, science, vocabulary, geography, essay writing, and even public speaking — and a way to raise money for college scholarships for underprivileged students in India. BTW, Strollerderby has the scoop on Whatever Happened to the Spellbound Kids? (RIP, Ted Brigham)."
Look at the parents (Score:4, Interesting)
Indian Parents (Score:1, Interesting)
LOL...let's re-do the headline (Score:3, Interesting)
Why are African Americans so good at Sports? Why are Latin American kids so good at baseball?
Oh wait, those are politically incorrect, isn't it? We're not allowed to talk about that.
How is the article ANY different?
They are willing to do the needful (Score:3, Interesting)
Okay, I know this is a bit off-topic, but I'm a bit embarrassed to actually ask any of my Indian colleagues this to their face and thought that the faceless strangers of Slashdot might be able to help.
Is this phrase, "please do the needful," some kind of Indian colloquialism? Back in the day, I suppose that a lot of Indians learned English from the British and passed it down through the generations, but I've never heard a British person use this phrase. My Indian colleagues use it a lot. I mean, like all the time when they're asking you for something. It's a phrase that I honestly don't think I've heard anyone of another ethnic background use. I'm not racist; I don't really care if they use the phrase because I understand what they are saying, although it did catch me off guard the first few times I heard it used in conversation.
I guess I'm just looking for some insight because I'm genuinely curious what its etymology is. Is it a direct translation of a common Indian-language phrase? Is it just one of those idioms that develop over time in a region? Is it something that was popularized by one or a small group of people at some point in the distant past?
Re:According to the latest article in "Duh" Magazi (Score:4, Interesting)
If you're already obese (and many kids are), sports like football, soccer or baseball are not really recommended.
It's not just spelling (Score:3, Interesting)
Educated Indian immigrants are generally much better at English than educated North Americans.... probably becuase they actually learn the language in school, including the grammar. Also, almost all Indian post-secondary education is done in English. It doesn't surprise me that they insist that their kids speak - pronunciation aside - and write English to the same standard they do.
It is pitiful how many North Americans (Americans and Anglo Canadians, that is) have a degree but cannot write or speak their language to a standard that would pass overseas English language competency tests.
Re:LOL...let's re-do the headline (Score:4, Interesting)
Please tell me how they're any different?
Think about it, instead of assuming I'm trolling, because I'm 100% not at all.
Indian kids do well in the highest levels of spelling competitions. Latin American kids do well in the highest levels of baseball. African American kids do well in the highest levels of basketball and football. Why is that any different from the headline?
Re:According to the latest article in "Duh" Magazi (Score:5, Interesting)
Not just parents, peer group. I'm sure plenty of /.ers are more than familiar with the general anti-intellectual sentiment found in many schools, especially among the 'cool kids' and young-ish age groups.
However hard one tries, it's difficult to remain motivated when having a wide vocabulary or advanced mathematical skills singles you out as 'weird'. A competitive academic environment, on the other hand, not only keeps motivation up but if anything pushes kids to spend extra time on their work, to help them 'win'.
In either case, though, a balance is needed. Overly pushy parents and excess competition seem to lead to social problems and feelings of inadequacy.
There's a reason all my best friends are of Asian descent, they're the only ones who seem to compete against me for grades everyone else just shrugs.
Religion (Score:3, Interesting)
One of my colleagues mentioned this a while back. According to his religion, words are powerful. It's part of devotion to ensure that prayers are read and copied *exactly*. In some other cultures it's a different approach, where the meaning is more important than the words. I don't know if this affects how well their spelling ability, but I imagine that it does.
Re:They are willing to do the needful (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm Bengali (we're all apart of the same culture group), but born and raised in the U.S. You're intuiting the right answer here (though a quick Wikipedia search would have helped you even more).
My original guess was one of your two suggestions; either it's an old British phrase or the Indian-ization of the English words. A lot of phrases died out in contemporary British English that still survive in India. One of my favorite authors, P.G. Wodehouse, for example, isn't widely read in England anymore, but remains popular in India; a lot of British literature from the Victorian era to perhaps the 1920s or 30s remains popular in India and until recently was most educated Indians' English literature (the growth of American popular culture in India and of Indian literature being written in English is probably changing this).
I read a joke somewhere that the last Englishman will be an Indian; there's a large element of truth to that; English manners, social norms, and cultural ideas from the Raj remain entrenched in Indian culture, even though they are no longer a major force in contemporary English culture.
Anyway, do the needful was in common use in the U.S. and Britain until the 20th century. [wikipedia.org]
Spellbound people (Score:4, Interesting)
Crushing poverty is one hell of a motivator (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:According to the latest article in "Duh" Magazi (Score:3, Interesting)
"Sports teach leadership and teamwork,"
Thats a myth. There can only be one leader in a team and most kids just want to play and have fun anyway, they're not interested in having an outdoors team building workshop with balls despite what some team coaches seem to think. When I was at school there was nothing worse than having some teacher take the sports too seriously as it just spoiled the fun. In the end I got sick of team sports altogether because of the borderline psychotic behaviour of some of the sports staff.
Re:They are Americans! (Score:4, Interesting)
I hesitate to feed an AC troll but:
I was born and raised in the U.S. and consider myself "Indian-American." I live in the U.S. and am culturally, mostly American, but I speak my native language at home, eat that food, and often dress in that clothing.
I'm as American as imply you are, but I am also of my parents country.
I think Indians just like words... (Score:2, Interesting)
I remember traveling on trains in India with a little portable Scrabble game. As soon as it came out, all my carriage mates would crowd around & soon begin offering suggestions. Even the little kids seemed better at Scrabble than I was, and everyone had a great time. I would imagine that this love of words would translate pretty well to US spelling bees.
Perception (Score:4, Interesting)
The racial stereotype is often that Asian Americans and Indian Americans are often more intelligent that others. I think this stems from the fact that typically that many of the best minds from Asia (which includes India) come to the United States for their higher education. When you've got billions of people, and you pick the cream of that crop, and send them over to the US, they're going to represent their race particularly well.
reminds me of the patel hotel cartel phenomenon (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/04/magazine/a-patel-motel-cartel.html?pagewanted=all [nytimes.com]
you got a motel almost anywhere in the usa, and its likely to be run by an indian guy with the last name of patel
why?
basically, its a phenomenon of the immigrant experience: one random guy goes from country A to exotic foreign inscrutable country B. what should he do there? well, he tries career X, and he's successful at it. he writes home about it, and pretty soon a bunch of other guys, relatives usually, from country A are interested in pursuing career X in country B. its not because the patels are better at running hotels than the guptas and the ganeshes, or the chos or the mcneils, for that matter, but simply because people pursue what, and who, they know, that works
same goes with spelling bees and indian americans (but not american indians. i never understood why columbus made a silly mistake about where he thought he was, and we are STILL calling native residents of north america "indians". completely nonsensical)
Re:Spelling contests (Score:4, Interesting)
As a European, I never understood the big thing about the US spelling contests.
As a foreigner living in the US I am coming to the conclusion that society here prefers pageantry and spectacle over form and substance. It also embraces parochialism (not sure if that is the best word for it) at a low level so that there always has to be an "us vs. them" mentality (this also works IMHO at multiple levels of their society - city vs country, state vs state and country vs country). And throw in a dose of parents living vicariously through their children. So to me the spelling bees are just a manifestation of the pathological state of the society as a whole.
You're not completely wrong, but I think you overstate it. We appreciate someone who has put in the effort to be the absolute best at something, though it can often (Scripps bee as an example) get to a point where we celebrate expertise that has gone to a level far beyond usefulness and real utility.
Re:Crushing poverty is one hell of a motivator (Score:3, Interesting)
Totally. I asked my dad, what is it that motivates his fellow ethnic friends to be millionaires and he said, they know what the old country is like and they are never, ever going back.*
* In terms of lifestyle. I've heard of lots of ethnic families who make it big in America and retire back home where they can live like kings. Point is, they aren't at the same quality of life when they were younger.
Re:Culture vs Race (Score:2, Interesting)
It often amazes me how humanity has lost all sense when it comes to culture.
Kids despite the efforts of various bureaucrats and educational theories are largely the product of the 'brain washing' they receive by their parents and culture. I use the term 'brain washing' on purpose.
You speak English instead of Mandarin, because that is what you were taught.
You eat Pork BBQ instead of frog legs, because that is what you were taught.
You like football, because that is what you were taught.
What bureaucrats and various education theories have tried is to suggest that education can be valueless. That you can somehow raise a child without forcing particular beliefs on them.
It is the reason why I theorize that multi-culturalism is actually resulting in no-culture... aka... lost children.
They have no idea who they are, how to act, what to do...
They jump onto any sort of guidance or fad because well... no one taught them any better... and we're banned from teaching them any better.
They're simply tossed into a generic public school which is not allowed to push values of any kind. We're supposed to accept all cultures and view points... which is great... but that means we also can't teach the kids anything... and like it or not kids spend 8 hours a day at school... they're learning all these values and skills at school.
Yes, I used to be a teacher and left because of this crap being forced on us and the kids. You're kind of seeing the education system realize this now. Where I am they now have a 'black focused' school to teach black kids about black culture. But it's still ridiculous and being done in such a bureaucratic fashion and still cannot pass on values.
So yes, the Indian kids are probably good at spelling because their culture promotes that. Then again, there are so few Indian athletes. None is really better than the other, but at least people who have a culture do things. 'Free thinking' is wonderful and you certainly want to nurture it especially as a child grows , but mass people need an identity to start off from.
As I've said, I used to teach and the one thing I can say is that the kids who have a culture tend to have their heads on straight. I don't care what culture it is (Indian, Chinese, French... and yes... white people... you also have a culture...) but they need something. One of the many reasons I support school choice so that schools can have culture and they can form a solid foundation. The alternative is of course... government itself dictating culture though public school... and no thanks...
Re:Crushing poverty is one hell of a motivator (Score:2, Interesting)
Not that Simple. (Score:3, Interesting)
Its a fair balance that is needed. Pure excellence in examinable academics goes that far. Guess why India does not have a ...so economyand daily comfort is not the issue. Thinking outside the box
huge fraction of inventors...its middle class is as big if not bigger as the whole of US
or traditional way is an issue. Knowledge of spelling is good but thinking of how to make that home made rocket go higher in your back yard with your friends is good too !
Re:According to the latest article in "Duh" Magazi (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Simple. (Score:1, Interesting)
Name 4 programs Bill Gates wrote??? (Score:3, Interesting)
Nonsense! In the West we realize that it's all about the connections, who one is related to, connected with, descended from, that's already been researched over and over again, back to Jensen's work in the early 1970s.
Jensen ascertained that the principal causal factor in success in the U.S.A. was the family one was born into.
Re:According to the latest article in "Duh" Magazi (Score:3, Interesting)
What they generally should be doing is correcting their eating habits (much more important than exercise for weight loss), and focusing on appropriate exercises (things that will not unduly stress their joints due to their obesity). Playing sports is probably not the best thing for them health wise.
What is? I dono. Possibly low impact aerobics?
Note, They includes me. I have always been over weight, even when I was highly active athletically. Why? I eat WAY too damn much, much like most of our nation I suspect.