Malfunction Costs Couple $11 Million Slot Machine Jackpot 479
ainandil writes "Engineering mistakes, while frustrating, seldom definitively alter the end user's life. Not so in Cripple Creek, Colorado — MaryAnn and Jim McMahon thought their money troubles were over when they hit an $11 million jackpot at a casino Tuesday. Before paying the jackpot, the Wildwood Casino turned the machine over to the Colorado Gaming Division for inspection. A glitch was found, aha! The Wildwood Casino blamed a slot machine malfunction for the $11 million jackpot. Total actually won by the McMahons? $1,627.82."
Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be clear. The 'engineering mistake' was that the machine hit the jackpot.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be clear, it's called "welching," the casino should pay out the jackpot and the slot machine maker should pay the casino for his "engineering mistake." Nevada (or wherever) should enact a law such as that, but it won't happen soon. And it's why part of the reason not to gamble in the first place.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Insightful)
About having the machine inspected when you lose to make sure no 'engineering mistake' were made ?
This is stupid, it should be like in baseball where faulty referee calls are considered part of the game. Especially since I have never heard of machine getting inspected when you lose ;-)
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Funny)
They're inspected regularly, which is approximately how often the players lose.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Regularly is any amount of time as long as it's regular
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
OK, how about this: A blackjack dealer tells a customer he has won $11 million dollars.
Should the casino have to pay the customer $11 million dollars because of a faulty dealer?
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:4, Insightful)
Did the machine just say they won or did the wheels spin around and come up triple bar? That's more like the dealer dealing a winning hand and then saying it didn't count because the cards weren't shuffled well enough.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
As for the slot machine, if the wheels all came up jackpot, they should get the money, regardless of any errors the machine may have had. If the wheels came up anything else but said jackpot anyway, then no they shouldn't win. It's as simple as that. If casinos want their games run by computers, they need to accept any errors they make. No different when an employee fucks up.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Worse, it's probably completely illegal for them to do that. If the machine has a fault, it is not the player's problem. It is the problem of the people making the gambling machine available. They should be required to pay the full amount.
I haven't read the article yet, but I'll bet the winners file a law suit over it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Every machine here in Nevada says right on the front "malfunction voids play" or something similar.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Insightful)
And clearly, a jackpot is a major malfunction for the casino owners.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Funny)
>> "malfunction voids play"
It should say that on electronic voting machines too.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Insightful)
And in *this* country, a malfunction would be too bad for the casino owner, and they'd still have to pay out. If they had a problem with doing that, they'd have to take it up with their insurance company, or with that of the company that caused the malfunction.
Yet another reason why things are royally borked in the US....
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
Then the onus should be on the casino to ONLY allow functional machines to operate and be played.
If the machine is on the floor, the casino is stating that the machine has been tested and is fit-for-purpose. Otherwise they're essentially saying, these machines might be broken; where the error would result in OUR loss we will void your winnings; where the error might be your loss, that's tough cheese.
That's basically a scam. The law should be changed, or they should basically admit that 'anything goes' and the casino can always weasel out of any situation. (Maybe in big neon letters above the door).
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's basically a scam.
When you can get banned from a casino/s for winning too much, what part of a casinos operation isn't a scam?
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:4, Interesting)
They also list the maximum payout.
Anything above that automatically must be a malfunction.
If under that maximum value, there is no other basis for claiming malfunction.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
That actually was a mistake.
I read an article a while ago about a guy who uploaded the software of a slot machine to a vmware-like environment. This way, he could revert back to the very same state over and over again. The machine always gave the user the impression that if he had made another decision, he would have won the jackpot. Except for when the user actually made that decision.
So I think any slot machine paying big bucks is either programmed to do so periodically as a way of marketing the casino or otherwise suffering from a serious bug.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
I can tell you that the machines are absolutely programmed to make you lose even if you hit the buttons at the exact right time to stop the rollers. Basically the operator programs the payout to be a ratio of the money deposited. Our machines were programmed to dispense 2 cents worth of prize tokens for every 25 cents deposited. The machine word operate honestly until the ratio got too far in the user's favor, then it would cheat on the last roller to correct the ratio. a jack pot scenario would only be allowed to happen if the ratio was already deep in the favor of the operator.
It was pretty comical, with the machine open I could stop the rollers right in the position I wanted by hand, and if the machine decided to "correct" the ratio it would use the stepper motor to index the last roller one or two positions past where I had stopped it. Pretty much undetectable to the human eye while the thing is spinning.
Security Only As Good As Physical Access Control (Score:5, Insightful)
twistedsymphony hints at a major point: the McMahons or a trusted representative didn't retain control of or an eyeball on the device between the gaming floor and the offices of the Colorado Gaming Division.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:4, Interesting)
I've always assumed most games of 'skill' are rigged. Remember those Storm Stopper games that look like a glass dome with the spinning light that you try to catch on the jackpot (you see them at Chuck E. Cheese places)? Every time, I hit it on either side of the jackpot. You'd think that I'd have at least 1/3 chance of getting if if that's the case, but I rarely actually got it. I would think that most games even outside casinos (cranes, stackers, those vertical ones with the red lights) that appear to be be dependent on skill are, once you hit a certain level, mostly luck. They're kinda fun to put a few quarters in, and I get that someone has to make money, but still, rigging is rigging.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The light accelerates or slows down in the vicinity of the jackpot light. Also, the jackpot bulb resistance could be different. So yes to some extent it's luck but it is winnable.
I win these pretty frequently when I take my family to these places, but when I stop and reflect, even 25 cents (best case scenario) for 100 "tickets" or whatever the reset value of the jackpot is, turns out to be a pretty shitty deal when you see what you can redeem 100 tickets for (and more realistically, I spend at least 10 qu
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You are exactly right. It is actually illegal in some jurisdiction (Nevada, at least) to make a gambling machine where the user's skill can influence the outcome. Even the ones that look like a video game where you control an avatar (a dude, a car or a spaceship) are absolutely not rewarding skill or penalizing inability.
Yes, the "Storm Stopper" is trivial to rig (Score:5, Informative)
In high-school I was a game tech at an arcade across the street. (A dream job for a geek! Much better than McD's, even though McD's paid better.)
The manual for Cyclone/Storm Stopper, etc. explicitly let you set the number of mSec the jackpot light would be lit. The manual also included suggested payout layouts and jackpot light times for maximum play at specific average payouts. (i.e. if you want five tickets average per play, set up the non-jackpot lights like this, the jackpot minimums and increment like that, and jackpot light time for another value.) It was a delicate balancing act involving many tradeoffs. Starting the jackpot large and incrementing quickly gets a lot of players attracted to the machine, but the ensuing need to drop the non-jackpot payouts causes players to leave quickly. Setting the jackpot timing too fast means some moron who puts a couple of hundred tokens in the thing will take his compulsive gambling somewhere else. (Yes, we had compulsive gamblers at a kiddie arcade; we had a setup where you could "bank" tickets long-term, so you could save tickets over months to save up for a CD player or a TV. We dropped the average ticket value for the higher-end prizes to keep highly-skilled players from costing us too much.)
Our arcade machines were not bright enough to adjust parameters based on average payout, but they were all adjustable, which we did by monitoring the token and ticket counters for each machine on a weekly basis. If a machine paid out too high or two low, we would adjust the odds and/or payouts.
For the arcade overall, we shot for an average of 7 tickets (worth about a penny each) for each token (worth about 21.7 cents each.)
SirWired
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
All games of "chance" and "skill" (like carnival games) are deliberately skewed in favor of the owner, otherwise there would be no profit in owning them. They are meant for entertainment of the customers, not their retirement plan. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
That said, the owners could be less greedy.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Just do like South park and declare shenanigans. Then you get a bunch of sticks and beat the people who ripped you off up or something :P
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing with probability is that the past should not alter the future. If you toss a coin, the chances of it being heads on any given toss are fixed. Even if you have tossed tails a dozen times on a perfectly fair coin, the odds of the next toss being heads are still 50/50.
Gambling on a machine has little to do with probability. Even so, there is a difference between a system that is skewed in the house's favor because the game is unbalanced versus a system that is skewed in the house's favor because it's rigged. An unbalanced system can still be "fair" in that you know that you have a non-zero chance of winning at any given time. In a rigged game, the chance of winning is either 1 or 0. It can never be anything in between. Even if both produce the same number of winners and losers in a day, with the winnings for each being identical, anyone with a sense of fairness is going to prefer the "honestly unbalanced" system over the rigged one.
Why? Because in an unbalanced system, the house is also gambling. It is a contest, no matter how warped. It is possible, as with the coin tossing, for the house to lose more than it expects on a given day. It is also possible for the house to win more. It'll even out in the end. In the rigged system, the winnings are pre-determined. The house is guaranteed to win around X amount from a given machine. It has zero risk.
In this particular case, a valid result according to the rules of the game was rejected because the game wasn't corrupt enough. It would be on-par to someone racing in Formula 1 being disqualified despite a perfect race because the bribed engineer failed to remove the fuel tank. IMHO, if a player plays by the rules and wins by the rules, they are entitled to victory under the rules. It is a bet, with agreed-upon odds, agreed-upon stakes and agreed-upon victory conditions. If a betting office was found doping racehorses or bribing footballers, do you seriously imagine they'd be able to claim they could withhold winnings when the person they tried to make lose won anyway?
Casinos in the US are not betting offices or really "gambling". You can't gamble in a deterministic world, you can merely win or lose when instructed to do so. I doubt this case will force any kind of change to the system, but I'd rather see ACTUAL gambling legalized in the US and game-rigging of any kind banned outright. Mind you, this would mean putting half of Nevada in jail. Not that I can see anything wrong with doing that.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Informative)
Just like these claw crane games that you find in vide arcades or amusement parks: those with a joystick to control a crane to grab stuffed animals or whatnot. Curious, one day I browsed the web to find operator's manuals, and they are programmed to make it look like the crane accidentally drops objects. The operator can enter parameters to define the average price of prizes, the average winning rate, etc so that in the end, just like slot machines, the payout percentage can be controlled very precisely. For more info read Machine configuration and chances of winning [wikipedia.org].
Knowing this completely takes the fun out of it, doesn't it ?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Just like these claw crane games that you find in vide arcades or amusement parks
Dubious programming craw crane games is just a red herring. The real scam with those crane games is that the prizes inside aren't worth the money even if you had a 100% success rate in grabbing them.
UK fruit machines they are not the same as US game (Score:4, Informative)
UK fruit machines they are not the same as US game as they pay out to a target % and do cheat you on high / low and other bonus games.
http://www.fairplay-campaign.co.uk/fruit/ [fairplay-campaign.co.uk]
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Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Interesting)
When I was younger, the local football club used to sell scratch-cards in the town each weekend. They sold them for years. They were 25p each, with a max possible win of £20. I can remember buying a few from time to time, maybe winning £1 very occasionally.
Then, when we were about 14 somebody found out that a shed near the football club had boxes and boxes full of these unopened (and by then out-of-date) cards, and we took tens of thousands of them. We would spend ages scratching them off, looking for 'winners'. Took so long, that we gave up on that and we learnt just to scratch of the 'void if removed' box and recognise the most common codes... something like 18414 would always mean a loser, 85413 would be a £1 winner etc... we were always looking for a really unusual number that would be the £20 winner.
Any we never found one, not one £20 winner, despite examining tens of thousands of cards over several months.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A great deal of the confusion regarding games of chance is that they are actually games of chance. This a heavily regulated economy from the slot machines in vegas to the super stacker II game in the local pub.
Every machine has a payout ratio and slots actually tend to be closer to 1. This is essentially how all games of chance function and much like some other posters have pointed out... it is how the machines are designed.
Legally, the unit is set to within a specific level of commission for payout. In the
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:4, Interesting)
A machine that guarantees a certain percentage of return within a certain time window (probably measured in games played) is not random. If it's not random there's a pattern to how it dispenses winnings. If there's a pattern to it, it should be possible to notice which machines are about to increase their payoff to even the ratio, so it just might be possible to increase your rate of return.
Of course this doesn't guarantee that you can get it over 1. And it especially doesn't guarantee that the casino won't declare you a cheater and ban you, or do something nastier - frankly, these parasites are worse than Al Capone, who at least was providing an actual service to his customers.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:5, Informative)
When developing a new game, the company decides on the payout, for example, 95%, which means that on average, out of every $1 played, the company pays out 95 cents back to the players. The company then decides on the prize distribution, for example (not a real game distribution, just an example):
Count Prize Payout Amount
387,251 0 0
10,000 1 10,000
2,000 5 10,000
500 25 12,500
200 200 40,000
30 1,000 30,000
15 5,000 75,000
3 30,000 90,000
1 100,000 100,000
400,000 136,231 367,500 Total
So out of 400,000 games played of $1 each, the casino is paying out $367,500 and making $32,500 profit. The prizes are randomized and the resulting distribution inspected to make it is distributed appropriately.
The prize distribution is saved in a central casino database. Every time a play happens, while the graphics or reels are moving, the machine talks to the central server over a secure network and requests the next available prize. The server finds the next prize in the the list, marks it as played, and sends it to the machine. If it is a win, lights flash, bells ring, etc.
Casinos in general want big jackpots, as loud and as attention getting as possible, since it gets more players to play longer. They have no interest in cheating you out out of big prize, since they are making money on average every time you play. Their interest is to keep you putting in money into the machine as long as possible, and they do that by having jackpots as often as they have calculated they should do it.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:4, Informative)
"They actually won $1627.82," said Burmania, "The $11 million was what we call a 'reset value.' It's what the jackpot would have been after the prize was claimed."
I don't get this last sentence it seems ambiguous. It seems to indicate to me that the "reset value", in this case an $11 million jackpot, would have been the prize on the next play. Had the couple been able to play one more round the prize -would- have been the $11 million. Since this mechanical error caused the machine to be shut down, the couple lost out anyways.
I would think that 1 months' worth of business would easily have that casino lose more than $11 million. I'd say pay them out, or they risk losing more money long term.
I thought the Gaming Commission was to be a neutral party. Instead, I found the rep's behavior in the video absolutely inappropriate since he's laughing throughout the interview.
Re:Mistake my ass. (Score:4, Informative)
I thought the Gaming Commission was to be a neutral party.
Sure, they're neutral. The same way MMS and Interior Dept were neutral in the BP oil spill. The gaming commission depends on the casinos for their livelihood, many of them come from a background in gaming. If there's no consequence for "mistakes" like this, they'll keep happening. There's no incentive to insure accuracy.
I'd take that prize money and hire a lawyer, subpoena the machine records and the gaming commission investigation notes.
Law Suit!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
"If you do hit a jackpot are they going to come up with another story? It's a malfunction? It's not right," Jim McMahon said.
What a crock of shit, I think they have a case.
Re:Law Suit!!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Won't matter. This has happened before and they have never had to pay out.
Re:Law Suit!!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Law Suit!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course you can, if you have a few million to contribute to the whores who write the laws.
Re:Law Suit!!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Law Suit!!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Yes,
The machine will have to be taken offline for inspection and a report will be mailed to you. I've read up on the gaming commission and several stories. (Mostly in regards to my fascination with that damn super stacker game). The regulations for "games of chance" are pretty much out there for anyone to read. Tons of interesting stories and material there to fill a day of reading.
It turns out (Score:3, Funny)
they'd left out the word "million" in a story title?
Re:It turns out (Score:5, Funny)
It turns out slashdot submissions are handled by the same slot machine code.
Lik they say (Score:5, Insightful)
The House always wins.
Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Interesting)
in recent history that gambling casinos have used "mechanical problems" to evade honoring their promises?
I wager it will be used again. After all, aren't most winners too poor to afford lawyers to fight the casinos? It's the same problem with corporate abuse of DRM and DMCA lawsl.
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Interesting)
After all, aren't most winners too poor to afford lawyers to fight the casinos?
If I win my lawsuit, then I'll get $11 Million or $42 Million or whatever and be able to pay my lawyer. And I remember seeing ads on TV for law firms that don't charge unless they win your case.
Or am I missing something important here?
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Informative)
The court charges, but in general, when you're talking about two parties with dramatically differing levels of available resources, the only time the smaller party pays for the larger party's attorney fees is if the lawsuit is frivolous (summary judgment) or if the law specifically provides for that (e.g. the defense loses certain types of suits). This is clearly not frivolous.
Besides, it would never go to court. The company would almost certainly settle out of court for a few hundred thousand just to get them to shut up. Otherwise, the story hits a few major networks, and that casino's business dries up because people suddenly realize that if they win big, the casino is just going to screw them out of the money.
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but the people who sue casinos are probably willing to take that bet.
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Funny)
I have this system. If the first lawsuit fails, I sue again for twice as much. Then if that fails ...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Those lawyers are probably about as qualified to handle a case as a parrot.
Tribal courts (Score:5, Interesting)
Or am I missing something important here?
Most US casinos are operated by native American tribes. Their reservations are their own legal jurisdictions. If you have a problem, your recourse is to sue them in tribal court ... which, of course, is operated by the casino owner. Good luck with those odds. Pity the customer. And how about the employees? The casino employees I know here in Minnesota are keenly aware that their employment rights are severely limited.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Why do I mention all this? Because it will only make economic sense to an attorney to handle this type of lawsuit on a conti
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. From TOA
"It's the second time in three months a Colorado slot machine has made a multi-million dollar mistake. In March, a machine malfunction was blamed for a $42 million dollar jackpot."
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Generally slot machines have a posted maximum jackpot. I don't know about this case but in other cases like this the reported "winnings" have far exceeded the maximum the machine is supposed to possibly give out, as posted on the machine. The real issue here is how crappy the engineering must be on these machines, to allow this to happen so often it routinely makes then news. In my opinion all glitches should require a payout of the maximum possible winnings, which must be clearly posted on the machine, regardless of what it "should" have paid out. That would encourage casinos to invest in machines with actual sound engineering principles, without making them unfairly liable for massive amounts of money when a legitimate freak error occurs (even in the best systems, exceedingly rare circumstances could cause errors). It's a slot machine, it's a simple device, if they spend the money on reasonable robustness they can easily achieve extremely low error rates.
Re: Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a slot machine, it's a simple device, if they spend the money on reasonable robustness they can easily achieve extremely low error rates.
They already do. I've seen the engineering that goes into slot machines made in the USA, and know a little bit about the certification requirements and procedures. It's jaw-droppingly stiff. After all, these machines deal with *money* instead of mere lives.
If the Colorado Gaming Division says the machine is defective, the couple should sue them for allowing it into service.
Actually, the certification is done by a third party, so the couple should sue the casino and the certifier, and the CGD only if it doesn't revoke the certifying agency's license to certify in their state.
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've heard of a couple of jackpots a while back called off because a user entering the coin, or pulling the lever, or even present while someone they knew gambeled was under the legal gambling age at the time and the jackpot was called off.
It seems only fair then that a goof on their end should not be able to nulify the standing "contract."
It should be the responsibility of the casino to test their equipment (or buy from only the most reliable sources which are well tested.) If there was a glitch in the machine itself, the casino should be responsible to pay out and able to sue the company that made the slot machine.
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, here's a follow-up on that $42.9M story [denverpost.com]:
At the time, the top award on the slot, a progressive game that takes a percentage of bets placed in all similar machines, was $251,183.16. But to be eligible for the top award, a maximum wager of 400 credits, or $4, was required. Chavez's 40-cent wager was eligible for a prize of 20,000 credits, or $200, if she would have hit the progressive.
So.... you're playing a 40 cent game for $200 max, who cares if it shows 42 millions when it's impossible? I can tell you what happened too, a 32 bit unsigned has a max of 4,294,967,295 <-- seem familiar? Somehow a subtraction lacked a bounds check and it underflowed to be UINT_MAX cents. And for that they should pay out 200,000 times her largest possible theoretical winnings? Sorry, but I'll side with the casino on this one.
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Absolutely they should pay the amount the machine says the player won. If that's a bug then they can deal with the slot machine manufacturing/distributing company, but pay the player what the machine says is due.
Simply put, the machine should pay the proper amount on all pay combinations. A machine should never lock up except for a genuine winning combination that triggers a handpay, and all touchscreen elements should work 100% of the time on the first touch. These newer video slots with 50 lines, 100 lines, 243 ways to win, 1024 ways to win, etc. if they can't find a way to make those machines absolutely and 100% bug free with all spin combinations tested and verified--then those machines should be illegal meaning the manufacturer cannot sell them to the casinos and the casinos cannot install them for players to play.
After all, the machine will glady take all of a player's money even if they don't win anything, even if their "bonus" round results in zero extra credits, and if there is a malfunction that doesn't pay it's often hidden by all those obscure line shapes so that a player really can't scan all of those pay lines during a free spins bonus round before the next free spin occurs.
"Malfunction voids all pays and plays" should be illegal too, if the machine might malfunction, it should be illegal.
Re:Isn't this the SECOND time ... (Score:5, Insightful)
If a construction crane malfunctions and ends up killing a bunch of people, should the construction company get to avoid liability simply because the machine malfunctioned?
In this case it involves money rather than lives, but I see no reason why casinos should not be liable for problems with the machines they operate.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why should they have the liability? It could be the case that the ORIGINALLY 100% working crane was poorly maintained after sale, which caused the malfunction.
Winnings (Score:5, Insightful)
They paid for a chance to win, and the machine told them they'd won. It's like buying a new shirt, finding a giant hole in it, and Banana Republic says "Sorry, the sewing machine was miscalibrated! No, we won't take it back. Maybe you can use it as leg warmers or something!"
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The slot machines have very clearly printed disclaimers that all malfunctions void the entire transaction. They will get the original bet returned. That's the equivalent of taking that defective shirt back to the store and getting a refund.
It's disappointing for the people that they didn't win their jackpot, but the rules are presented very clearly beforehand.
Re:Winnings (Score:5, Insightful)
Fine, so long as they refund ALL players that ever put money in that slot machine. You don't get to just pick and choose who gets a refund, and who does not.
Re:Winnings (Score:5, Funny)
I can tell you clearly how to identify when the machine is malfunctioning. In fact, it rings bells, throws up warning lights and generally behaves quite conversely to normal operation.
ie, when a slot machine is pouring money on the floor it is quite clearly broken. Seriously, why would they put all of those lights on there.
there are strict Illegal certs on them also (Score:3, Insightful)
Back In the day a miscalibrated machine could get somebodies legs/arms/neck broken
Enough with the perky summaries (Score:4, Informative)
What's wrong with just writing a dry summary? It's more pleasant to read and lets the facts of the situation speak for themselves:
"MaryAnn and Jim McMahon of Cripple Creek, Colorado were playing at the Wildwood Casino, Tuesday, and hit an $11 million jackpot on a slot machine. Before paying the winnings, the casino turned the machine over to the Colorado Gaming Division for inspection. After deciding that the win was due to a malfunction, the couple was paid only $1627.82 in winnings."
Reading this revised version doesn't make me sick and want to punch someone for trying to be witty and entertaining (that is, annoying and stupid).
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't? They just introduce an error somewhere and *you* don't get paid after winning the jackpot? This makes me sick to the stomach. Let's just turn them over to the Gaming Division each time people loose or win a small amount, shall we? Maybe I was supposed to win the jackpot! Who can tell?
Re:Enough with the perky summaries (Score:4, Funny)
What's wrong with just writing a dry summary? It's more pleasant to read and lets the facts of the situation speak for themselves:
"MaryAnn and Jim McMahon of Cripple Creek, Colorado were playing at the Wildwood Casino, Tuesday, and hit an $11 million jackpot on a slot machine. Before paying the winnings, the casino turned the machine over to the Colorado Gaming Division for inspection. After deciding that the win was due to a malfunction, the couple was paid only $1627.82 in winnings."
Reading this revised version doesn't make me sick and want to punch someone for trying to be witty and entertaining (that is, annoying and stupid).
You know what this summary is missing? Exclamation points! Exclamation points — and m-dashes. Perhaps a smidge of sarcasm, and an acronym! Here, let me fix this for you:
"MaryAnn and Jim McMahon — of Cripple Creek, Colorado — were playing at the Wildwood Casino on Tuesday, and hit an $11 million jackpot on a slot machine! Before paying the winnings, the casino turned the machine over to the Colorado Gaming Division (CGD) for inspection. After the CGD determined that the win was due to a "malfunction", the couple was paid only $1627.82 in winnings. :("
Also, I threw in a frowny face. Now it's dry - and yet somehow exciting and suspense-filled! A
Not winning? (Score:4, Funny)
Have the machine inspected by your local independent hacker.
He'll find a glitch. Aha! You should have won 11.000.000.000!
No need to check the code... (Score:2, Interesting)
So now casinos just need something which they say that works in a way and if it works another way they don't pay the announced prize but what they say it should be (of course it's what the machine should have shown, but how do you know there really was a mistake?).
It used to be a good idea to check if a machine does what it is intended for, but this is supporting a I-don't-care behavior, because casinos can get rid of programming/coding errors by sending machines to some inspection *after* the error gets vi
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, come on (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, if they found evidence of fraud or tampering, throw the book at them. Otherwise, them's the breaks - pay the couple.
The casino deserves to be pilloried and lose their gaming license over this. It's bad enough you can be ejected or even banned for being too good at playing something. Now, it seems that they are extending this to games of chance. This seems a little too pat, as the casinos could avoid ever paying out anything by simply making sure that their slots always have some technical flaws.
And What Recourse Do Players Have? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The industry works very hard to find out, as it turns out. Every slot machine ships with what's called a PAR sheet -- this lists the actual odds of each pay for the machine, along with 95% confidence intervals on payout for various amounts of play. The casino will then have its slot technicians verify that the machines are paying exactly what they expect. There are legal reasons why they have to do this, but the self-interested incentive for the casino to do this is because they do not usually like to run t
Mitch Hedberg called this one (Score:5, Interesting)
"I saw a billboard for the lottery. It said, "Estimated lottery jackpot 55 million dollars." I did not know that was estimated. That would suck if you won and they said, "Oh, we were off by two zeroes. We estimate that you are angry!""
Re:Mitch Hedberg called this one (Score:5, Funny)
Why would I be angry at winning 5.5 billion dollars?
Re:Mitch Hedberg called this one (Score:5, Informative)
It's "estimated" because the lottery winnings are a percentage of all tickets sold, and they haven't yet sold all the tickets for the next lottery.
They usually close the sales 15 minutes before the drawing.
Casino's blaim bugs all the time. Its a scam! (Score:5, Interesting)
A woman recently won like 42 million in a jackpot and they refused to pay her saying it was a bug.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/colorado-42-mil-jackpot-winner-jack/story?id=10235836 [go.com]
A quick google shows that this happens all the time, whenever someone wins a large number its always blaimed on a bug, and for some magical reason the winners do not get paid.
The casino's are ripping winners off.
Winners? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm reluctant to classify slots players as "winners". When I look at slot machines I see rats in cages desperately pushing the dispenser in the hopes of getting a food pill. Soemetimes they get a food pill, but more often a little blade comes out and cuts off a piece of the rat.
But we can soften it a bit... they're "people who were awarded a slot machine jackpot".
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The above post paid for by the Nevada Gaming Control Board.
Something similar happened in Argentina (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Something similar happened in Argentina (Score:5, Insightful)
United States corporations work on extortion. The legal system favors corporations far too much to have a fair chance in court. If you bring suit against a large company and lose you'll probably have to pay their legal fees too, and 80% of the citizens here could not ever hope to afford those kinds of expenses. The result is that not many people file suit, and most of the ones that do are just plain crazy and have no qualms with being a million or more in debt for the rest of their lives.
This is EXACTLY THE SAME as saying, "Sorry, no refund on your car. The welding machine messed up and welded the doors shut. We aren't responsible for what our machines do." and then saying, "We sent this to our legal department and they agree that it wasn't our fault the welding machine messed up so we don't have to pay you."
Re:Something similar happened in Argentina (Score:5, Informative)
Congratulations for living in a country that does not have a corrupt legal system. Wish I could say the same.
Upon further investigation... (Score:5, Insightful)
-Oz
Insurance (Score:3, Insightful)
At any rate, it doesn't seem very okay that the manufacturer can just ship faulty machines and not be held accountable.
Best thing they can do: (Score:3, Insightful)
Stand on the street corner, *just* off the casino's property on the public sidewalk / shoulder of the road / etc. Hold a huge sign stating nothing but the facts of the case: We played the slots, the machine said we won big, the casino claimed technical difficulties and reneged on the large payout for a comparatively minuscule one. Stand there quietly with the sign, don't harass anyone approaching the casino, and only respond purely factually to any questions that any would-be patrons or other passers by might ask. Embelish nothing; use simple, unemotional, declarative statements. Say nothing that could vaguely be interpreted as opinion or that would be impossible to verify.
Say nothing untrue, nothing emotionally charged, stay *off* the casino's property, and do nothing to block anyone or prevent them from going about their business as they see fit.
See how long that takes to get at the very least a settlement offer. I'm guessing the casino manager would have legal on the phone in under 10 minutes and an offer made in under an hour. Might have to sweat them a little longer to hold out for a *reasonable* offer, but they'd definitely walk away a fair bit richer than the insult the casino gave them.
Why errors don't get jackpot payouts (Score:5, Informative)
If they're paid, it becomes easy to use a casino for money laundering. Walk into the casino with a bunch of cash you obtained illegally, dump it as a high roller at the craps table, hit the deliberately-broken slot machine your accomplice in the casino management set up to get most of your money back, and when you go to the bank and have to explain where you got the money you're depositing, hey, you won it from a slot machine, perfectly legal source.
To stop that, when a big payout is hit, the machines are audited by the gaming commission and checked for errors. If there is one, you don't get the payout, so a crooked casino manager can't set up a broken machine as part of a money-laundering operation.
6 words (Score:3, Informative)
Re:FTFA... (Score:5, Insightful)
Way to be a judgmental asshole.
I think they meant "money troubles" in that they needed to have money to live on, whereas with 11 million dollars they wouldn't.
Lighten the fuck up.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I too, need profanity to get my points across.
Dick
Thanks for letting us know, Richard.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As one of my finance professors once told me, gambling (lotteries and casinos) is a tax on desperation and gullibility.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
gambling is a form of entertainment. Even people with "money problems" (and they didn't discuss the magnitude, heck most people would say they have "money problems" of some sort) need entertainment. Gambling, done properly, can be a reasonably cheap form of entertainment. Particularly quarter slots.
But a previous poster was onto something when they said the previous players that day deserved a refund since they were also playing on a 'defective' machine that could have been meant to give out more than it
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
To me, the details of the glitch are irrelevant. If the machine says you win X, then you should get X. If it's a machine error, then the casino has been wronged *by the machine manufacturer*, and the casino should sue that manufacturer, because they are the people who caused the problem. If the consumer follows all the rules, then the gambling overlords should protect their winnings.