Microsoft Hides Firefox Extension In Toolbar Update 285
Jan writes "As part of its regular Patch Tuesday, Microsoft released an update for its various toolbars, and this update came with more than just documented fixes. The update also installs an add-on for Internet Explorer and an extension for Mozilla Firefox, both without the user's permission."
stop it MS (Score:2, Insightful)
MS stop acting like spyware....
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Old news is so exciting!
Is it old news, or did MS decide that since only "Firefox geeks" complained about it last time that it's open season to add Firefox extensions without asking?
Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the hell hasn't Mozilla made it easy to remove plugins from Firefox? You have to Google solutions to find out how to remove Microsoft (and in some cases old Java) shit.
Re:Again? (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference being that that add-in was arguably useful. It enabled click-once in firefox, iirc, which is a fairly handy experience for running small apps over the web. If I recall, Java does the same thing. The problem then was that firefox had no way to distinguish between a version with a flaw, and a version without a flaw, so they had no choice but to temporarily blacklist it (and there was that issue with not being able to disable it due to permissions).
Browser toolbars, however, never strike me as a nice addition to a product without asking.
Re:Here we go again (Score:5, Insightful)
Disclaimer: This is only my opinion, nothing more.
It's the same problem I have with Apple keeping people locked into the Appstore. It's not that the action itself is a big deal, it's the fact that they are actually doing it that's the problem. The consequences of that action is irrelevant; the action itself is bad.
Re:It is just an update to an existing toolbar (Score:1, Insightful)
Yeah not really much of an issue in my book seeing as I don't have any type of search toolbar installed in any of my browsers (Iron, IE, FF.) Consequently I didn't get some "unwanted sekrit mystery update" when I installed updates Tuesday.
Didn't Change My Firefox (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have no steenking Bing searchbar in my Firefox browser (no searchbars at all, in fact). The new extension did NOT show up in my Firefox addons, although I received my Windows updates yesterday.
So I'm not affected directly. But, as many others have said, I do NOT appreciate Microsoft changing ANYTHING in my computer without my specific, informed permission. Okay, they can change their own OS if necessary (since they usually accept responsibility for disasters that occur). But leave MY programs the hell alone!
Re:It is just an update to an existing toolbar (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus obviously one has to wonder: "If Bing is so freaking great than why is MS paying to have it force-fed all over? Like all those pop-up ads so many sites have now that resolve to Bing -- and they count those as hits for their search engine, which probably at least quadruples their numbers.
It's inconvenient to dislike MS, because they're everywhere. I'd rather be able to embrace them, I really would. But their behavior is just so objectionable in so many ways it's impossible.
Re:Here we go again (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the problem is, nobody knows exactly what it is and why it's there. Given Microsoft's lousy record with internet security, what's to say they haven't inadvertently created a security loophole?
From the looks of it, they're installing toolbars into Firefox. Since they're for Bing and for Search helper, I'm sure they're directing people to their own search engine. Which means they're taking advantage of their control over the OS to meddle with my browser.
And, most importantly, they didn't ask. Since this isn't Microsoft's software, WTF are they doing jamming in add-ons without notifying the user or making it possible to delete it?? When they installed the last .NET extension to my Firefox, I can't delete it -- only Disable it. It's not up to Microsoft to "enhance" my user experience in software that isn't theirs.
Seriously, you have to ask why installing additions into other companies' software without asking the user or allowing them to delete it is just plain wrong? What next, deleting any software which competes with their own offerings?
There is nothing inherently wrong with this... (Score:2, Insightful)
My Ubuntu installation at work installed a Firefox extension by default. It also made numerous modifications to packages installed on my computer - from bash to Xorg to Gnome. Both legal and morally acceptable.
Same thing is with Microsoft, with the only difference being that there is no assumed connection between Windows and Firefox (Microsoft doesn't package Firefox)
Your OS will tamper with the rest of your machine. The question is: do you trust your operating system with your computer?
Re:Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:5, Insightful)
Mozilla has -- there's supposed to be an Uninstall button next to them.
Unfortunately, Microsoft didn't allow the Uninstall button to work, and you could only Disable. This is not a Mozilla problem in not providing a mechanism -- this is Microsoft and Sun making shitty add-ons.
Re:Wow! (Score:4, Insightful)
When you buy and/or install Windows, you explicitly (although in very small print) give Microsoft permission to do exactly this, as far as I recall; it should be in your EULA. I can't say that it worries me a lot - I use Linux.
Re:Again? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is these add-ons (they are not plugins) aren't installed with user privileges, but admin privileges. How would you have Mozilla fix this? By magically circumventing the permissions system in Windows?
Perhaps MS hopes that people will place the blame on Mozilla as you have done.
Re:yay (Score:3, Insightful)
"I like your products, Microsoft...but I still abhor your business practices."
Not enough to stop using their software, hence not enough to matter.
Re:Here we go again (Score:4, Insightful)
This shit has to stop (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear Mozilla developers, please disable by default *all* extensions except:
The power to choose what to install in their browsers must reside only in the hands of the users.
If a vendor actively tries to circumvent this new protection mechanism, permanently blacklist ALL its extensions, plugins and whatnot. Report them to antivirus vendors as malware.
It's not the first time this happens and it actively damages users, with slower browsing experience, less screen space for actual content, huge undisclosed privacy and security breaches (you can BET they exists, even if they are not made public).
This shit has to stop.
P.S. to the users of Microsoft products: please any time you can, try to avoid this company, you're not their customer, you're their victim. There are other software vendors that respect you much more than that.
Re:Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Here we go again (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? I've got two add-ons with a nice shiny Uninstall button next to them that is enabled should I decide to push it. (Why I would uninstall noscript, I don't know, but it's there).
I also have Java Add-ons and .NET add-ons which have the Uninstall button disabled.
Methinks if Firefox was designed to prevent uninstalling add-ons, there would be no such button.
And, really, unless you know exactly which files to delete and if you can do it safely, deleting the files from the disk isn't really an option.
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a really bad idea. Browsers shouldn't be able to elevate privileges. That's a key mechanism in preventing content from being able to hijack the system. The LAST thing I want in a browser is for it to operate as admin/root.
This is an abuse of monopoly power (Score:4, Insightful)
As small and simple as this may be this is a monopoly desktop OS vendor using its position to push out things to support its internet and marketing activities. Using one position as monopoly to prop up or support another activity in another market place. That pretty much defines what they have been getting in trouble for over the past 20 years in multiple jurisdictions.
They show no signs or intention of change. They need to be broken up.
Re:Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:5, Insightful)
HP Web Printing does this and Move Media Player does this. Both are old plug-ins that are disabled because they don't work with the current version of Firefox that I have, and they won't update, and I can't uninstall them either. So there are many companies that are making Firefox add-ons/plug-ins that are not able to be installed. That should not be an option at all. If you can't uninstall it then it shouldn't be possible to install it all. This is something that Mozilla/Firefox people need to work on fixing.
The Move Media Player is what you have to have to watch streaming TV from the CW network. HP Web Printing was installed when I installed the drivers and software for my printer. Now I am stuck with both of them that don't work and can't be removed and won't update either.
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)
>When you buy and/or install Windows, you explicitly (although in very small print) give Microsoft permission to do exactly this
I don't think the word 'explicitly' means what you think it means. Even more so in very small print.
Re:Again? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why does an OEM have to put in the Live Search Toolbar? Couldn't the user have installed it him/herself?
It's possible. It is also possible that the user could deliberately stab themselves in the eye with a rusty nail, exfoliate with a belt sander, or give themselves dozens of tiny paper cuts on their genitalia. Many things are possible, and some of those things indicate mental illness of some sort.
Re:Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:1, Insightful)
The problem is these add-ons (they are not plugins) aren't installed with user privileges, but admin privileges. How would you have Mozilla fix this? By magically circumventing the permissions system in Windows?
When I run firefox WITH ADMIN PRIVILEGES, I should be able to remove anything from firefox that I choose.
After all, I installed firefox WHEN I WAS LOGGED ON ADMIN PRIVILEGES. And WHILE LOGGED ON ADMIN PRIVILEGES, I should be able to modify my firefox installation.
Clear enough for you?
Perhaps MS hopes that people will place the blame on Mozilla as you have done.
MS may have messed up, but Mozilla also messed up by not allowing the user WITH ADMIN PRIVILEGES to control their firefox installation.
"Firefox geeks with Windows Live toolbar" (Score:3, Insightful)
You missed an important circle on your Venn diagram.
The subset of "Firefox Geeks" with "Windows Live Toolbar" is probably quite small and I can't imagine any of them will mind too much (I mean, they actually installed Windows Live toolbar so how much of a "Firefox Geek" can they be...?)
Still, this is Slashdot so I'll let everybody get back to their Microsoft bashing.
Re:Plugin uninstaller for Firefox? (Score:1, Insightful)
Processes in Windows can't have their privileges changed once they start. They can only spawn new processes with different privileges.
Basically, you hit the "uninstall" button, and Firefox starts a new process as admin, which asks the user for permission to start it. This process removes the addon, and then notifies firefox that it has been removed. If firefox was infected and tried to start a different process as admin the user would be warned that the program was "downloaded" before asking them to escalate it. Then all you need is that the helper uninstaller is written in such a way that it only uninstalls addons.
Re:Here we go again (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course you can delete it. It's just files on a disk. You can't delete files on a disk?
What you can't do is disable it from inside Firefox. And why is that? Because that's how Firefox was designed.
It’s bloody wrong and I want it fixed.
Yes, it’s installed as a system-wide extension and can’t be uninstalled by a user-level program. That is what UAC is for: to elevate privileges out of the user level so I can perform admin actions (such as uninstalling system-wide extensions).
I want a button with the little UAC access-control icon (the shield) next to “Uninstall”, so that I know I can’t uninstall it unless I’m an administrator. Maybe put a little warning message “uninstalling this extension will affect all users on this computer... you must be an administrator to perform this action...”
I want to click the button, be presented with a UAC prompt, type the administrator password, and have the damn extension uninstalled.
That is how things are supposed to work.
In the meantime, how do I uninstall it? I hate having greyed-out disabled extensions cluttering up my list of extensions. (Same goes for plugins, actually.)
Re:This shit has to stop (Score:4, Insightful)
Dear Mozilla developers, please disable by default *all* extensions except:
So it should be impossible for Windows Update, running as administrator, to add extensions to Firefox? How exactly is this miracle to be accomplished? Last I checked, the administrator can modify any program arbitrarily, such as by adding an entry to a database saying that the user manually installed a particular add-on.
Re:A different kind. (Score:2, Insightful)
Sue *, its always the answer.