Julian Assange Faces Rape Investigation In Sweden — Updated 1017
mpawlo was one of many readers who have sent news that a warrant has been issued in Stockholm, Sweden for WikiLeaks founder and spokesman Julian Assange. The investigation apparently involves "one report of rape and one report of harassment." The story was broken by Swedish tabloid Expressen (original in Swedish), and later picked up by more reputable sources like CNN and the BBC, who say the warrant has been confirmed by Swedish authorities. The WikiLeaks Twitter feed has commented three times about the charges so far, first saying they were warned of 'dirty tricks,' then that they hadn't been contacted by Swedish police, and then a statement from Assange saying the charges are without basis.
Update: 08/21 15:58 GMT by S : Multiple sources are now reporting that the warrant for Assange's arrest has been withdrawn. Aftonbladet has coverage in Swedish. Chief prosecutor Eva Finne said, "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape."
Update: 08/21 15:58 GMT by S : Multiple sources are now reporting that the warrant for Assange's arrest has been withdrawn. Aftonbladet has coverage in Swedish. Chief prosecutor Eva Finne said, "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape."
Was it a child? (Score:3, Informative)
You know -- we have to get Assange "for the children." That would be the first thought going after a web site, wouldn't it?
Seriously, wouldn't put it past the U.S. government. There is precedent from the sixties with the Marianne Faithful/Mick Jagger "Mr. Jagger was apprehended eating a Snickers bar from Marianne's pussy" incident that Faithful goes into in detail in her first autobiography. Not true and the guy who got them the acid before the raid was an American they didn't know very well. Mick was giving some thought toward politics at the time. And one can Google for Jean Seberg + FBI for that incident around the same time.
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:5, Informative)
So how do you explain the larger number of reported rapes in Sweden then?
http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/ [thelocal.se]
"Sweden has the highest incidence of reported rapes in Europe - twice as many as "runner up" the UK, a new study shows."
Proper response (Score:5, Informative)
Re:He was, "...arrested in his absence..." (Score:3, Informative)
Re:No but that didn't stop geeks from inventing so (Score:5, Informative)
We need to invent a pithy expression for this sort of "I like him therefore he is right" reasoning. How about "volo hoc ergo propter hoc"?
It's not just rhetorical, it's a cognitive bias. And there's already a name for it and plenty of research on it: see "Halo Effect" [wikipedia.org].
Statement from Swedish Pirate Party's leader (Score:5, Informative)
An excerpt in a quick-and-dirty translation by me:
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:5, Informative)
As I stated, compared to many other countries Swedish rape laws are pretty strict, lots of things that would not be considered rape in other countries are considered to be rape in Sweden (legally at least).
Also, Assange, Wikileaks and the Pirate party hav been in the media a lot in Sweden. And by "in the media" I mean "on the front page". So I'd guess most people here do know about Assange and Wikileaks.
Re:Funny aspect of this (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Character assasination in progress (Score:4, Informative)
Assange is too high profile to kill off. Cue the rape/childporn/furry accusations.
Hardly. Nobody is too high a profile to kill off. That's why people that are really high profile have private security forces, why our President has the Secret Service. If you're too big a problem, you can and will be killed if you piss off the wrong organization. That's pretty much the way it is.
Re:This just in (Score:2, Informative)
Sweden has troops in Afghanistan idiot.
Secondly, Sweden is not neutral, earlier the idea was that it is free from military alliances so that it can elect to be neutral in the case of war. This, was the case of Swedish defence policy until about two years ago when the Swedish parliament agreed on a new formulation of its policy, and essentially it now says that if any EU member state is attacked, Sweden will come to that states aid with military means if necessary.
Swedish neutrality is dead, both de-facto and de-jure.
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:5, Informative)
You're assuming the point of rape is to fulfill sexual desire -- it's not, it's about wielding power over someone else..
That's the feminist/social sciences dogma. See Palmer & Thornhill, A Natural History of Rape [wikipedia.org] for a different point of view.
Re:Funny aspect of this (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:4, Informative)
Add alcohol/drugs to it and it gets even messier. Lots of people don't remember what they do when they are drunk.
Sure, if the person is unconscious it's rape (unless the "victim" liked it even the next day ;) ), but there's a wide range between unconscious and totally sober.
There was a girl who was drunk when she hugged and kissed me (after I fetched her back to her home). She claimed and claims to have no recollection of it. I guess there's a reason why her mom wanted me to be the one to fetch her home after all the partying. She's a pretty hot girl, I'm sure more than a few guys would have been unable to resist her charms.
If I had succumbed I wouldn't have been able to maintain my status as Slashdot Virgin :).
As for honesty. Lots of people lie about stuff they are willing to do. After all there was that girl who signed up for 56 tattoos and changed her story when her dad found out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8104645.stm [bbc.co.uk]
So I'm pretty sure there have been many girls who have consensual sex with guys and change their story later on, whether because boyfriend/dad/husband/peer group/public disapproves, or they "remember it differently" when they are more sober.
Looking at some of those sex survey statistics, either the girls or guys are lying, or the guys have unknowingly been fucking guys :) (which could also be the case if alcohol is involved ;) ).
Re:This just in (Score:5, Informative)
One suspects bail will be opposed, and a request to prevent the accused using the internet and or computer, or options limited so Julian can only use certain access internet ports that have wall to wall TCP/IP trace on.
The Swedish courts can't do things like that. They can decide on prison sentences, community service, fines, and a few other things, but they can't forbid someone from using Internet, or make up new types of punishment on the fly.
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, swedish law classifies a lot of things as "rape" that wouldn't be rape in other countries (this can be seen by looking at swedish rape statistics before and after the relevant changes to the law).
Also, from the article you linked: "
The figures can however be somewhat distorted as it is often only assault rapes by strangers and aggravated acquaintance rapes that are reported in many of these countries - as was the case in Sweden 40 years ago.".
According to aftonbladet.se both girls _willingly had sex with him_ but said he had a skewed view on women. They also said they are not afraid of him and he was non-violent.
I wonder what kind of actions he did that constitutes rape then?
Source: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab
Re:Funny aspect of this (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:2, Informative)
Looks like this is what happend. At least this is what one of the women are saying at least:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article7652935.ab [aftonbladet.se]
"– Anklagelserna mot Assange är förstås inte iscensatta av varken Pentagon eller någon annan. Ansvaret för det som hänt mig och den andra tjejen ligger hos en man med skev kvinnosyn och problem att ta ett nej."
Which in a rough translation is :
"- The allegations against Assange are not a plot by Pentagon nor anyone else. The responsibility for what happened to me and the other girl rests solely on a man with a distorted view of women and problems accepting that a 'No' is a 'No'"?
Re:Not Rape? (Score:5, Informative)
Doesn't have to be, in Sweden, you can be convicted for rape without penetrating anything. Forced petting is enough. You do not even have to use force, only go against the will of the person that is the victim is enough.
The bad thing with this is that it leads to people starting to distrust the law and the authorities.
The warrant withdrawn. (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/assange-anhallan-havd-1.1157250 [www.dn.se]
Re:This just in (Score:3, Informative)
In fact he is such an attention whore, that pretty much all the media describe him as secretive and difficult to find not to mention getting interviews with.
He's totally making fools out of these journalists, letting them service his whorish need for attention by hiding.
Hell, there are 2.3 million hits on google, when you search for "Julian Assange". He's completely outclassing Lady Gaga (79.7 million) and Paris Hilton (30.2 million), making himself the true king of attention whoring.
Hell, he's outclassing you, DesScorp, 100 times (22.500 hits). That just PROVES that he's an attention whore. I mean - there's no way in hell that he would get that many more hits than you without being an attention whore. Right?
Warrant CANCELED (Score:5, Informative)
Breaking news on BBC... the arrest warrant has been canceled... definitely sounds like dirty government tricks now...
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:This just in (Score:5, Informative)
You forgot the bit about guaranteeing security, for free, for the better part of the last century. That cost a few bucks for sure, but none of that matters. ... Being reminded that the taliban really are the bad guys doesn't fit with the world view these idiots like to project.
Selling weapons to your enemies [wikipedia.org]
Destabilising democracies and supporting fascist dicators [wikipedia.org]
bombing civilians [wikipedia.org]
supporting terrorists [wikipedia.org] including the taliban [wikipedia.org]
supplying weapons to mass murderers [wikipedia.org]
preventing colonies from gaining independence [wikipedia.org]
deploying nuclear weapons against civilian targets [wikipedia.org]
unilaterally [wikipedia.org] invading [wikipedia.org] soveriegn [wikipedia.org] nations [wikipedia.org]
turture [wikipedia.org], illegal detention [wikipedia.org]
starving children [wikipedia.org]
mind control experiments [wikipedia.org]
obstructing the prevention of terrorism [pkpolitics.com]
dropping bombs on everyone you possibly can [politicalinquirer.com]
Gee thanks guys. We would all just love all that security you have been guaranteeing, when do you suppose it will be delivered? On second thoughts, I think we might just sort out our own security from now on.
Re:Warrant CANCELED (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This just in (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like you haven't ever visited a Swedish "häkte" (arrest).
First of all, there is no "bail" in Sweden. Either you are arrested, or you are free awaiting sentencing.
In the Swedish legal system the prosecutor can decide that you need to be arrested if any of the following is fulfilled:
1. There is a risk of additional criminality
2. There is a risk that the person hampers the criminal investigation
3. There is a risk that the person flees
4. There is a minimum sentence of 1 year and no reason not to arrest the person
5. The person does not have a residence in Sweden.
Additionally, the prosecutor can decide to add "restrictions". These can include no communication with the rest of the world. This is done if communication can be expected to hamper the criminal investigation. The prosecutor has to defend the decision to keep a person arrested every 14 days, but the court can decide to keep the person arrested, with restrictions, for a very long time (years), if the investigation goes slowly.
If you are sentenced to prison in Sweden you can end up in an "open" prison (typically for lesser, non-violent, crimes). There there are few restrictions. Or you can end up in a "closed" prison (violent crimes, longer time). In a closed prison the amount of communication with the rest of the world is very limited, and communication with the rest of the world is typically monitored. Don't expect to use an Internet connection (or even a computer!) there.
Re:Statement from Swedish Pirate Party's leader (Score:4, Informative)
Funny how small but important details get lost in translation.
What he actually wrote was that 'Vi känner inte människan', which would be translated as 'We don't know the person'. That is to say; what kind of person he is.
reporting in the local - sweden's news in english (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.thelocal.se/28504/20100821/
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
It was leaked in Mar 2010: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/U.S._Intelligence_planned_to_destroy_WikiLeaks,_18_Mar_2008 [wikileaks.org]
Re:Not Rape? (Score:4, Informative)
No, not this one. This only counts as a rape in Norway.
Re:This just in (Score:3, Informative)
I agree. The US helped destroy the USSR as well as Hitler's Germany (and now keeps both Germany and the USSR in check). As someone who grew up in Eastern Europe and who saw Communist regime abuses first hand, I thank the US for that. To add, if it wasn't for America standing up to the USSR then the whole of Europe would be worshiping Marx, Engels and Lenin, not to mention Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.
Backfired (Score:4, Informative)
Occam's Razor, anyone?
Simple, yes. Honey traps [google.com] are one of the oldest, simplest, most reliable tools in the spy business. There are plenty of good examples [google.com]. Looks like this particular attempt backfired however. It looks very bad for the powerful lobbyists in Sweden looking to undermine the Pirate Parties new found support from their union with wikileaks.
Re:Not Rape? (Score:1, Informative)
the law should allow for the guy to be a little slow on the uptake in certain situations.
Don't worry, it does. Probably to point of favoring the guy.
Bullshit. A 15 year old boy was tried as an adult in Maryland and convicted of rape for taking five whole seconds to stop having sex with an 18 year old woman after she told him to stop.
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:5, Informative)
Please don't pretend it doesn't exist (Score:3, Informative)
If you had actually bothered to read more than a few words of the post above instead of some deranged attack on who you think I may be you would have noticed I was talking about REPORTED EVIDENCE.
I can only suggest improving your reading skills and stop pulling crap like the "And so in effect you insist" bullshit that bears no relation whatsoever with what I wrote. You should have grown out of that sort of kindergarden sandpit style of argument by now.
Re:Rape? In Sweden? (Score:3, Informative)
As someone who is a fan of the Enthusiastic Consent model, I think you're misrepresenting its goals. Specifically...
The idea of Enthusiastic Consent is not to rewrite rape legislation out of whole cloth. Rather, it's to create a social movement where the healthy expectation is that sex should only occur between two people who enthusiastically consent to the activity. To use your example, saying "It's OK, everybody does it" isn't and shouldn't be rape. But I'd sure say it's an ethically questionable way to get someone in bed with you. Likewise for exploiting a relationship status, likewise for using somebodies social expectations of casual sexual encounters to pressure them into sex. Again, none of those situations are rape but they're all situations in which the consent of one party was not given enthusiastically.
And as a woman who really enjoys having sex, surrounded by friends - male and female - who also enjoy having sex, why would I want any of us to be having sex that wasn't consented to with enthusiasm!? Why would you ever want that for yourself, or your friends, or your children? There are enough things in my life that I'm only blase about, sex shouldn't be one of them. And so no, Enthusiastic Consent does not mean that the situations you list somehow are transformed into rape. It does mean that they're indicative of a society which sees little wrong with unenthusiastic sexual encounters, and argues that that's a problem.
As a final note, you scoff at the idea of asking "is it OK if I touch you here?" "Is it OK if I kiss you there?" You don't get to decide what level of consent your partner has offered. And if you don't ask, you can't know for sure.