IT's Last Hope — a Job In the Boonies? 470
GMGruman writes "Offshoring, cloud computing, automation, 'do more with less' — all of these have been chipping away at US IT workers' ability to have a job. But some companies now dangle a new possibility: Move to rural areas for lower-paying 'onshoring' jobs that can compete with lower overseas salaries. InfoWorld's Bob Violino talked to IT workers who've made the move and discovered that although it's no 'Green Acres meets Big Bang Theory' experience, a move from the big city to the hinterlands appeals mainly to just some IT worker segments, even as it provides new opportunities for others."
I give up (Score:4, Interesting)
Some Sign of Hope (Score:5, Interesting)
The other thing I am finding is that, while you don't have be a salesperson, having some level of social skills and the ability to work with clients makes a big difference. Unfortunately I know a lot of computer programmers who would sooner stick a red hot poker in their ear than have to deal with clients or management.
I did it (Score:5, Interesting)
Being one of a few IT guys in my small town, people are always asking me this or that, and I am able to barter with other local pro's on getting stuff done.
when I first moved out to nowhere, it seemed I was the one guy in town that didnt have a service to offer, now with the introduction of technology to farming, its become quite the resource. From GPS navigated harvesting to PLC controlled feeders and robotic milking machines.. There is a ton of work / money to be made. Sure its not high-finance, but its an essential service and the stress levels are almost nil. With Canada's population density, there is no shortage of rural areas.
Re:I'd rather make peanuts telecommuting (Score:4, Interesting)
Because I pump it out of my well, that is tapped into the same aquifer that several water bottling companies use....
Re:Then you're a prisoner (Score:3, Interesting)
Farming
Lack of money. Farmers are know to be land rich and cash poor.
True, although many people in small towns were on some [wikipedia.org] sort [wikipedia.org] of government aid [wikipedia.org] before the plant opened.
Re:I give up (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in a small town (about 13,000 people) and I've found there isn't enough IT expertise. There seems no lack of A+ screw monkeys starting up computer shops, and certainly they can take care of the home market, but there are pretty three guys in town with the ability to maintain VPNs, AD networks, work with *nix systems and so forth, and two of them (myself included) are full time employees, and the third seems to be dropping the ball a lot, judging by the number of calls me and the other guy are getting. I do a bit of work on the side, but my job makes any heavy time investment in actively formulating my own business unfeasible.
Long story short, there are no lack of guys who can flip out video cards, ghost hard drives and set up home WiFi networks, but when you're actually talking about people with some useful networking knowledge, like how to set up domain controllers or build customized routers, they're a lot rarer in small and medium-sized communities. I was talking to a guy in another even smaller town who is making a decent living in a very rural area where none of the towns are over 5,000 people, in part because big resort chains in the area need a reliable IT contractor who can deal with their particular networks and systems, and in part because even a lot of smaller businesses need a bit more than just some turkey who knows what DDR3 RAM looks like.
Re:is it really cheaper to live in the boonies? (Score:3, Interesting)
Taxes are less across the board, and I have a choice and the responsibility on where my money goes. My local politicians also tend to at least be a little more reliable and aren't the big spenders that the cities have.
Food? Whatever. It's not that much more expensive, and I have better access to the fresh stuff.
Schools suck everywhere. That's a function of parenting and teachers, not money. DC throws more money at schools than anywhere else and they continue to be terrible.
Starbucks? Who needs that? I brew my own - better - for far less a cup. Don't need Whole Foods. Lived decently without it so far.
It's not so bad staying home all day when you actually like where you live and aren't cramped up by all the noise and smog and people.
Internet? It gets better every year. Also lived without it for a while.
Somewhat healthier in the boonies - cleaner environment overall. Less stress. Nicer people.
Re:is it really cheaper to live in the boonies? (Score:4, Interesting)
I have several options for high speed internet.
I have several options for decent to excellent medical care.
I go to concerts, museums and such on a regular basis.
The schools are pretty good around here, and since I care enough to supplement my kids' educations with things like fossil hunting, programming and various home science projects, my kids are in the top of their classes.
I can make my own coffee, thanks.
And I can go sailing and diving on my days off.
Now, what exactly am I missing by living in the midwest? The ocean. Other than that, I could care less that I'm not stuck in a high rent, high cost-of-living money sink. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.
Re:is it really cheaper to live in the boonies? (Score:5, Interesting)
everything is farther away which means you need 2 cars instead of 1 or 0. you drive more miles so you buy more gas and spend more on maintenance or buy a new car faster with less trade in value. taxes are less than in places like NYC, but you have to pay for everything that taxes pay in NYC. things like garbage pickup. visiting people who live close to the boonies i've noticed that food is more expensive since you have to truck it farther to the store.
then there are the little things like schools tend to suck in the boonies compared to the big cities and their suburbs. if you care about your kids being in the top 10% of earners then NYC, NoVa or a few other places are the ones to go for schools. there are no starbucks or whole foods markets in the boonies. only crappy mass produced crap. nothing to do other than stay home all day when you're not working crappy internet access crappy medical care. big cities have the good hospitals and doctors
I am in the 'boonies'. We have 2 cars but really only use one.. We don't rack a lot of miles, and when they break its easier to find a neighbour who can help ya out with a fix, instead of paying $85/h labour.
Our taxes are cheaper, and we get Garbage pickup.. the taxes pay for everything like they do in a city.. but its cheaper becuase there is 1800 people insteaof 1, 800,000 people.
We have coffee in the country, it just doesn't cost 5 dollars a cup.. and we have the same grocery stores as anywhere else.. only since its the country the produce is cheaper because its local, the same with the meat..
Our schools are excellent, Country doesnt mean slack-jaw idiots... our schools don't have barbed fences and dont go in to lockdown every other week. Everyone knows everyone else, so the stranger-danger isn't peaking red all the time.. our kids actually get to play.
When we arent working there is plenty to do, and usually its plenty cheap... if we wanna go woop it up in the city, we still can.
We have high speed internet,
We have good hospitals, As a matter of fact I recently had a VERY sick child.. The local hospital did an amazing job, and when it was time for more help it was a short helicopter ride to a internationally renowned hospital (we were lucky to be 2 hour drive away.. but they flew kids in from Europe to this hospital...
So yes it IS cheaper.. we made the switch a few years ago and went rural.. It does have a few down sides, but I love nature and I love open space... I love seeing the stars at night... so for me its a perfect fit...
I've worked IT in the boonies (Score:4, Interesting)
Small company vs Big Company (not CITY) (Score:3, Interesting)
I have learned from my experiences doing this (since it seems to be an almost 180 of what you guys are all talking about). I found out that in big corporations, you are only a number. Nobody cares about you except for possibly a few people you know personally in your department. It is all about the bottom line. If you can improve the bottom line, there is a good chance you will get paid more or get a promotion. Don't expect massive raises, but they will happen. Since I came from a "right to work" state, I was fired without a reason (not laid off, fired, as I am guessing it is cheaper to not offer severance or anything). In a bigger corporation, even good programmers can be fired if it helps the bottom line. A good friend of mine was a programmer in the most elite team in a major insurance company, but it was cheaper to let them all go than to pay their salaries so that they could deliver gold (I met some of the other guys on the team, they truly were insanely good).
A smaller company is much easier to work for. You will get raises based on your performance. If you perform well, you get a nice, hefty raise. Well, that is in the one I work for. From what I have been informed, is that many smaller corporations do not really give raises. Just negotiate what you are willing to make for about 5 years and go with that. With the smaller companies (and part of this is because I have a friend that also works for a smaller company as well) there is not that huge fear of getting fired to make the bottom line.Many of these places do not really have a set time for you to show up. Come in and put in about 8 hours and then go home. Unless something you did is seriously broke, extremely little overtime (you are salary anyway, so it doesn't matter), well, unless you are a networking or systems admin guy. I am coming from a programmer background, so I am informing about that aspect. Show up when you want, leave when you want, and just do what you enjoy. I love programming, and am in a job where I truly feel like there is no stress here. I am here to program, and I love doing it.
My friend who also works for a small company has told me countless times he is the same way.
The only big downers of small companies is the pay. You can negotiate pay if you want, but do not expect a big raise or promotion anytime soon. In smaller companies, unless somebody leaves the company, don't expect a promotion anytime soon. It is a small place, so there is little to no room for advancement. Honestly, I guess I come from the mindset where if you are worried about advancement, maybe you picked the wrong profession. Being a programmer is an art form. It is something you need to be passionate about. If you are doing it for the money, than you missed the boat by about 5-10 years. Be a business major instead if you just want money. I am being honest. If you truly enjoy being a programmer, enjoy it.
I would not say find a small town, find a small business. I have an incredibly night life where I live (and for a single 28 year old, it is great). There are lots of bigger cities with a lower cost of living. You are on
A small business is the way to go if you love being a programmer. I say this from personal experience
Re:Arrrg... (Score:3, Interesting)
Offshoring, cloud computing, automation, 'do more with less' — all of these have been chipping away at US IT workers' ability to have a job.
The only thing here that is a problem is offshoring. Cloud computing, automation, and doing more with less is our job.
And yet the downsized worker is still unemployed. The summary never said "this is a practice that must end". It only stated that the practice can lead to downsizing.
Robots will save us (Score:3, Interesting)
Once robots really get going, you're going to see mass unemployment that will make the GD look like a boom. Within the next 2-3 generations, most if not all jobs that have been done by humans for humans for millenia will be ported over to robots/computers. The only ones to benefit from this will be the top 1% of wealth owners. You know, the ones that own more and more of the worlds resources and wealth every year... The rest of us will pay the price of techno-industrialization.
Anyone who doesn't see it or can't admit it to themselves is either blind, scared or foolish.
What will the robots do with all the unemployed, poor and discontent millions?
Thats the real question.
Re:Maybe stop surfing /. all day long (Score:2, Interesting)
Sorry, if you can't meet a customer, you have no place here. I'm not asking any engineer to do sales. My only requirement is that they be able to communicate effectively, look presentable, and understand the business on a broad scale as well as in the minutiae.
If an engineer is going to meet a customer, I always make sure they are briefed about the situation before going in and provide them my expectations for what I need from them and ask them what they need from the customer so I can prepare that beforehand. I don't want any surprises when we meet, especially on the customer's side.
While no one expects me to troubleshoot or write code, I do stay with the on-site engineer as long as I can to understand his issues and relay them to the customer as well as I can. Any lack of communication skill, any inability to act appropriately, or any unexpected issues damage my business, my company, my customer, and the engineer's reputation in the company. That isn't about separation of roles, it's all about understanding business and acting as an agent of the company, not just being a code monkey.
Re:People usually prefer what they were raised on (Score:2, Interesting)
Not entirely true. If you get a hick out of their hick town early enough, they can see how badly their town sucked.
It's the people who never leave their hick towns that think their hick towns are so great.
Perspective...I has it.
Re:I'd rather make peanuts telecommuting (Score:3, Interesting)
It's the self-confidence that's probably rarer ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Even in a bigger city (like the one I live in) there are always FAR more people out there bragging about their A+ certs. and trying to make a go of building or fixing PCs and basic wi-fi networks than there are people who are willing to troubleshoot a corporate VPN or server.
But when I look at it, *I* was one of "those guys" myself. I spent years working as a "bench tech" for little mom and pop type computer resellers or retailers. Truthfully, they were all dead-end jobs, but at the time, I was convinced it was a career path -- and it was what I liked to do! Eventually, I managed to get a corporate I.T. job, doing PC support. The skills required weren't much different, except I actually needed to know LESS - because in the corporate setting, everyone bought 50-100 PCs at a time, all identically configured, and complete with 3 year on-site warranties. The fact I could tell if their problem was due to bad RAM, a bad video card, or defective motherboard was rather irrelevant, as long as I knew the 800# for Dell support and our contract number.....
Mostly out of boredom and a desire to earn credit for "improving" something, I worked on several projects there -- including rebuilding old, retired PCs as "thin clients" that booted MS-DOS, the proper network drivers, and a Citrix ICA client. The company never cared, ultimately, and opted to blow a bunch of money on rather crappy Windows CE based thin clients instead -- but at least I got paid to experiment and learn something new.
Later on? I did work refurbishing a bunch of vintage Apple Macs for a guy. Again, this was something I had NO real experience with, but I figured "Hey, a computer is a computer, right? How hard can it be?" so I fibbed a bit and told him I was experienced with them. I got by just fine, and again - it was a neat learning experience, seeing how Apple designed various systems over the years, and learning the tricks to disassemble all their oddball case styles.
After that, I worked for a small business that did on-site service calls for businesses and residential customers. I ran into several interesting situations there, including Novell networks that needed troubleshooting and office networks with all manner of networking issues. The times I felt like I was dealing with something "out of my league", we paid supposed experts in those areas to come in and assist. And each of those times? I discovered the "experts" knew less than I did, all in all -- and were largely useless. I was always better off just going by instinct and a gut sense of what would PROBABLY fix something. A little trial and error, and lack of fear in trying things went a LONG way. (Just make sure you always document important settings before changing them so you can put them back if you're wrong!)
Currently, I work for yet another business ... this time with a title of "Network Manager", and I run my own on-site service business on the side. I had to inherit a lot of technology I knew little about (such as our Sonicwall VPN, and a specialized inventory and customer tracking system written in Unix), but once again -- I've always found that the most critical thing is to make your employer and co-workers confident that you're able to find solutions to the problems. Google is your friend, and so are tech. support forums on the net! Ability to research issues and dig up/download the proper instruction manuals or documents is priceless. I've been able to pretty much single-handedly keep this whole network going without any big issues for several years now. But if this place only hired based on what I said I knew or did previously? I wouldn't be working here.
So in short? I wouldn't call someone a "turkey" because they know their DDR3 RAM and so forth. That's a good start, because it shows they actually CARE about the stuff enough to learn the "nuts and bolts" of what goes in the machines. The big thing is if they're WILLING to tackle the "unknown" things and have good research abilities to look up solutions as they go along.
My companies new stragey is to put the datacenters (Score:3, Interesting)
out in the boonies.
Dubuque comes to mind. I spent a week out there.
Quite frankly, it was kinda nice. Downtown had a decent coffeshop or two (no Starbucks!), and there was 2 bars visible from almost any street corner, and 3 bowling alleys. Food options were a bit limited, but everywhere I went was quite good, especially the steaks.
Heck, I don't think 3 are left in Sacramento now that Crestview closed!
One other interesting note: the local Holiday Inn where I stayed rolled out the well drinks cart, plus free beer and "wine", and let us have at every evening. Now THAT was proof I was not in Cali anymore.
I could have moved and got a promotion and a raise... but I turned it down. My wife would not move. A native San Diego girl, frozen water belongs in glasses and paper cones, not piled man high in streets.
Re:Maybe stop surfing /. all day long (Score:2, Interesting)
No, I also expect them to do a good job.
But is it hard to communicate effectively? For some people, I suppose so. We don't hire them. They usually don't make it past the first telephone contact.
Is it hard to look presentable? If you're visiting a customer, you only need a nice shirt ($18 at JCPenney), slacks ($20 JCPenney), and leather shoes. In addition, you should also shower, shave or have a neatly trimmed beard/mustache, and your hair should be neatly arranged.
How hard is it to understand the business? Who is the customer? What are we selling them? What is their immediate problem that we are helping them with? If need be, I brief the engineer on these things and expect feedback regarding what they expect are the most likely risks, possible opportunities, and necessary on-site set-up.
This business requires some on-site work. Those engineers represent the company.
I expect the engineers to have the ability to be professionals. I do not ask them to establish contacts, manage relationships, research the buying structure of customers, make proposals, negotiate and close deals, or remain the focal point for customer contact for the length of the customer relationship. I don't ask them to prepare sales material, determine company strategy, find new markets and prospects, or provide dollar amount goals for the upcoming quarters.
I only require that they be well-spoken, present themselves well, and prepare adequately whenever they need to meet a customer. These aren't "sales skills" or "business skills", this is the basic level of professionalism that anyone in a white collar position should have.
Let's face it, if all I needed was some programmer to sit in a cube all day, I can hire a team in India or China for cheap. If you think that all you need is "technical skills", your job will be the next one sent to those places.