UK Minister Backs 'Two-Speed' Internet 226
Darkon writes "UK Culture minister Ed Vaizey has backed a 'two-speed internet', letting service providers charge content makers and customers for 'fast lane' access. It paves the way for an end to 'net neutrality' — with heavy bandwidth users like Google and the BBC likely to face a bill for the pipes they use."
Newspeak (Score:1, Insightful)
The providers are the users now?
Re:Newspeak (Score:5, Insightful)
Aren't the pipes already being paid for? (Score:3, Insightful)
How is the bandwidth Google uses not being paid for now? I know that ISP's charge me money to access the internet, and I'd imagine that Google already pays whatever service provider hooks their network into the internet. What am I missing here?
BBC and Virgin Media (Score:5, Insightful)
The BBC, who I have to pay by law, will have to pay Virgin Media, my ISP, who I already pay.
My money is going to who for what exactly?
Re:Confused. (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that the poor ISPs are only getting paid by everyone involved once.
Re:how will they do this? (Score:5, Insightful)
As for packet inspection, a perfect oppotunity to implement it widely, just wait until they decide to put noninspectable packages in the not-moving-at-all-lane-until-key-provided.
Re:Confused. (Score:5, Insightful)
To be a little more serious though, ISPs have it in their head that they can get more money if they come up with a scheme to double-bill people or corporate entities. They're looking to governments to allow it, and it looks like someone high up in the UK wants to support it. Once in effect, they can make even more money that they can continue to not spend on improvements.
Re:Newspeak (Score:5, Insightful)
So what exactly is my role in this? Does it mean I don't have to pay my ISP anymore, because now they're working for Google and other content providers?
Or does it mean that I'll keep paying the same, but my connection will be slower because my ISP wishes Google was their customer instead of me?
Excellent (Score:3, Insightful)
Get rid of these damn telecoms with their crappy business models.
Re:Consensus? (Score:5, Insightful)
What are Slashdot's feelings on net neutrality generally?
To my mind, it makes sense to have pricing clearly defined based on the bandwidth you use. It should be no different than your electric bill where you're charged based on the power you use. Take my parents - They "do email," now and again watch youtube vids of the grandkids and surf the web a bit. Contrast this with my brother-in-law who is constantly torrenting, playing online games and using netflix. I'm somewhere in the middle. There should be a mechanism to charge us different rates based on our usage. My parents shouldn't be subsidizing my brother-in-law.
However the ISPs don't seem to be well equipped to build this sort of system...
Dark Fibre (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember thinking they're preparing for this sort of thing (in one form or another) - they're pretty good at anticipating trends. If they've got the backbone bandwidth to trade for last mile bandwidth they'll be able to operate at substantially lower cost than other high bandwidth users (read:Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter - prime competetors all).
Re:How is this news? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's exactly what happens today. Do you think your small business pays the same for Internet access as Google does?
ISPs just want an excuse to double bill businesses by threatening them to deprioritise their traffic; no matter what they already pay for their big pipes. Extortion by any other name ...
Re:Excellent (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Consensus? (Score:5, Insightful)
2 speed internet, great idea! (Score:3, Insightful)
If and only if it has the following two speeds:
- The minimum guaranteed reserved bandwidth I pay for (which is currently almost always unknown, and can change without notice)
- The maximum burst bandwidth I pay for (which is what they currently advertise)
Currently there are too many oversold connections with burst speeds of 20, 30, 60 or even 120 mbit being sold without any mention of the minimum reserved bandwidth, and those speeds become lower and lower when they oversubscribe the line. Consumers need to know the minimum as well as the maximum bandwidth they are paying for.
* smartass notice: yes I know you can't guarantee an actual minimum bandwidth in practice, but I'm talking about the uplink (i.e. 100 mbit uplink shared with 50 users = 2mbit guaranteed, in contrast to the maximum advertised speed which would probably be 20mbit in this setup).
Re:Newspeak (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's clarify the argument (Score:5, Insightful)
Nominally, this proposal will have no detrimental impact on any current service. Put simply, ISPs are being given the option to offer a "premium" service to those data suppliers who wish for their content to be delivered at a "premium" rate, at a premium price, thereby improving their perceived web experience.
To the simple-minded, this is a perfectly straightforward case of adding value to a service and charging for that added value. Nobody has to pay anything extra if they don't want to. However, this doesn't address the brutal reality.
Firstly, ISPs already saturate their bandwidth as far as they're able in order to be competitive. The creation of an express-lane for premium content will, by default, require the degrading of non-premium content delivery. Certainly the increased revenue could be used to improve infrastructure and have a net benefit on all bandwidth, but ISPs are businesses and it's fundamentally naive to assume this will be the result.
Secondly - and more importantly - this move would change the culture of the web irrevocably. In the first instance, content providers will have to pick a camp, and we will be faced with a two-tier system. Two-tier will just be the beginning though, and companies will have to quickly start incorporating their "content deliver" streaming costs into their business strategy. Like any variable, contracted service, it will be open to competition, abuse and legal dicking-about. It will change the very nature of the web, and we will all suffer from the lack of an even field.
A more subtle problem would be the loss of impetus to improve the efficiency of data delivery. As things stand, it is in every single person's and organisation's interest to constantly strive to improve the bandwidth-efficiency of their sites, languages, algorithms and services. As soon as the big guns find themselves able to take a short-cut to improving their users' web-experience by paying for it, half the major driving force behind these innovations in efficiency will be gone.
I'm sure there are many other reasons to oppose this change, and I honestly can't think of any compelling reason to approve it - unless, as I said, one takes the short-sighted, uninformed (or plain greedy) stance that this would improve certain uses of the web, at least for now.
Re:2 speed internet, great idea! (Score:3, Insightful)
Low speed 33.6k with packet lost > 50%.
Hight speed: 56k with the same shit of packet lost.
Price:100 - 300E.
Since you don't have a choice what are you going to do?
This smells like communism in the worst form.
P.S: I don't mind communism, just the 80% of stupid monopolistic ideas.
Wrong Approach; Try Evil Instead (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously... we all know Google etc already pay for the uplink, power, servers, etc, and the "users" that are using bandwidth are the people requesting. Who are also paying ISPs already for what they use (the ISPs wrote the contracts!).
Logic and reason aren't going to work here or they already would have. It's unfortunate Google has sworn off evil; they're in a unique position here to do what a less philanthropic business would have long ago: start demanding payment from ISPs, especially the big ones. Hey Comcast, want your users to have fast access to Google? You should start paying Google then. Or maybe AT&T will sign and your customers will go there, because everyone uses Google.
Of course, this will cause politicians etc to start whining about fairness, antitrust, and how the net should be neutral to large players. Congratulations, we win. =P
bandwidth users Google and the BBC (Score:4, Insightful)
They already face a bill for the pipes they use. Now someone wants to make them pay a bill for the pipes end users use to get to google and bbc, even though those pipes are already payed for by the end users.
Re:Newspeak (Score:5, Insightful)
LOL, how backwards (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder what these ISPs would think if Google, Facebook and the like would start charging THEM, for letting their users access their services?
Re:Newspeak (Score:2, Insightful)
Your role is something like that of a shopkeeper. It would be rather unpleasant if your bandwidth got throttled and prevented you from connecting with customers. So you pay your protection fee ... erm, access to the supercool higher tier internet for really 'fast' speeds.
Re:Consensus? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? FTP doesn't need low latency. It'll hardly be affected.
Re:Consensus? (Score:3, Insightful)
Only senders pay.
Which still doesn't address the issue of a DOS attack. I don't think you fully understand the mechanics involved.
Re:Consensus? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why [have an FTP over VOIP protocol]? FTP doesn't need low latency. It'll hardly be affected.
Because to the telcoms "high latency" means "disconnect whatever transfers we don't like/aren't paid enough for" or "impersonate both sides of the connection and send RST packets".
Re:Newspeak (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Aren't the pipes already being paid for? (Score:3, Insightful)
In the UK, Sky owns newspapers, TV, as well as an ISP. They recently put The Times behind a pay wall where it is dying a rapid and painful death. The logical thing for them to do would be to throttle the speed of rival newspapers to make them unreadable, leaving paying £1/day to Murdoch as the only reasonable way of getting news. They can do the same with TV, making their VoD the only usable one.
Phillip.