WikiLeaks Will Unveil Major Bank Scandal 1018
Atmanman writes "When WikiLeaks announced it was releasing 251,287 US diplomatic cables, we all thought we knew what was meant by its earlier ominous words that, 'The coming months will see a new world, where global history is redefined.' It now appears the organization is sitting on a treasure trove of information so big that it has stopped taking submissions. Among data to be released are tens of thousands of documents from a major US banking firm and material from pharmaceutical companies, finance firms and energy companies."
So... (Score:4, Interesting)
It will, "stimulate investigations" (Score:4, Interesting)
"It will give a true and representative insight into how banks behave at the executive level in a way that will stimulate investigations and reforms, I presume"
While one may not like all the steps taken by Assange, one should give credit for the understatement that the new documents will "stimulate investigations".
Anti-US Government, Maybe (Score:5, Interesting)
...a lot of people recently said that Wikileaks has become an anti-US organization. We should probably wait and see what they actually release, but perhaps this news shows otherwise? Or is the fact that they are going to release data on US based corporations just going to be viewed as more evidence of an anti-US sentiment?
You should probably clarify that you meant anti-US government as they might actually be providing the citizens a lot more transparency than previously thought possible. When a US company is targeted, both the government and the people might be happy -- especially if it's tax evasion or violation of laws. Here's a good snippet when they run down which industries they might have dirt on:
Continuing then: The tech industry?
We have some material on spying by a major government on the tech industry. Industrial espionage.
U.S.? China?
The U.S. is one of the victims.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that everyone would like the offenders of industrial espionage to be dragged out in the open. Especially the United States government.
Anti-US, pro-US, who cares? This is going to get interesting and the knife is going to cut everybody.
I'm really going to break down laughing if Wikileaks hosts dirt on Amazon, their knew hosting provider with EC2 [technologyreview.com]!
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, reality has a well established liberal bias.
Well, or you could point out how the US's drive for globalization and (what they call) "free trade" is basically destroying everybody's economy because it's largely predicated on utterly meaningless economic theory. It's a race to the bottom, and apparently nobody has figured this out.
It was the banking practices of US banks which directly caused the financial crisis, because they mixed up the imaginary, funny-money (bad US consumer debt) with the real money. And, when people discovered the funny-money had no value, the value of the real money tanked because it was now based on the funny money. The US essentially commoditized and exported bankruptcy.
That's right America, it's your fucking fault.
Re:Go, Julian, go! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Go, Julian, go! (Score:3, Interesting)
More than would if it wasn't exposed at all.
Re:Go, Julian, go! (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a quote from the article which sums it up nicely:
Q: What do you think WikiLeaks mean for business? How do businesses need to adjust to a world where WikiLeaks exists?
A: WikiLeaks means it’s easier to run a good business and harder to run a bad business, and all CEOs should be encouraged by this. I think about the case in China where milk powder companies started cutting the protein in milk powder with plastics. That happened at a number of separate manufacturers.
Let’s say you want to run a good company. It’s nice to have an ethical workplace. Your employees are much less likely to screw you over if they’re not screwing other people over.
Then one company starts cutting their milk powder with melamine, and becomes more profitable. You can follow suit, or slowly go bankrupt and the one that’s cutting its milk powder will take you over. That’s the worst of all possible outcomes.
The other possibility is that the first one to cut its milk powder is exposed. Then you don’t have to cut your milk powder. There’s a threat of regulation that produces self-regulation.
It just means that it’s easier for honest CEOs to run an honest business, if the dishonest businesses are more effected negatively by leaks than honest businesses. That’s the whole idea. In the struggle between open and honest companies and dishonest and closed companies, we’re creating a tremendous reputational tax on the unethical companies.
Re:Anti-US Government, Maybe (Score:4, Interesting)
The US government has always worked closely with US corporations to perform espionage. The government gives the corporations data on their foreign competition, the corporations give the government spies cover.
Re:So in short (Score:5, Interesting)
Wikileaks is embarassing [sic] everyone who deserves it (in the U.S.)
From the article it doesn't appear they are after the US in particular, that's just where a lot of their information is coming from.
Q: Continuing then: The tech industry?
A: We have some material on spying by a major government on the tech industry. Industrial espionage.
Q: U.S.? China?
A: The U.S. is one of the victims.
good, mess with the corporations (Score:5, Interesting)
messing with governments gets mixed up in equivalency and nationalism and generates more heat than anything actually useful. iran is already saying wikileaks is an american plot
http://www.presstv.ir/details/153259.html [presstv.ir]
something that hurts the usa should be a subject of celebration in the iranian government, right? no. because people are so mixed up in their prejudices, any reveal of what a government did or said can always be conveniently reexplained with some creative thinking such that your prejudices are never really examined. whether pro-usa, or anti-usa, your opinion of the usa is completely unaffected by wikileaks, as iranian spin shows
wikileaks clearly shows that the great satan is not the one who hates them and wants their destruction: all their neighboring countries secretly push the usa to topple iran, while those countries say nothing publicly. that's what wikileaks shows. this challenges the narrative of the great satan plotting your downfall, and so proof that the great satan is not a great satan. therefore, wikileaks must be explained away with plots and conspiracies, where julian assange is actually an agent of the CIA. it would be hilarious, if maintaining the prejudicial narrative weren't such a deadly serious effort by those who love, or hate, the usa, for prejudicial reasons. so it's a complete wash: wikileaks has zero effect on the usa's standing in the world, or in the minds of committed pro-usa or anti-usa partisans.
however, the corporations, they need unmasking. a lot of people in the usa have this phony narrative of their poor neighbors and their government being the enemy of their prosperity. the real enemy of their prosperity: corporations. there is nothing wrong with capitalism, but corporatism is not capitalism. corporatism is buying off the government to permanently warp the markplace against the smaller players and to entrench your dominant position in it. the government is not the enemy, corporations are. the greatest enemy capitalism has ever known, in fact, is not communism, but corporatism, in all of economic history, the big players have always warped the markplace in their direction. yet so many fools believe this phony narrative of the government and poor people being the enemy of capitalism, and large corporations heroes, or at worst, harmless victims on the sidelines, of evil government regulations (that are written by those same corporations)
so hopefully, a reveal of how corporations are your real enemy, not your government, might open some foolish eyes, for once, i hope
Re:So... (Score:2, Interesting)
> a lot of people recently said that Wikileaks has become
> an anti-US organization.
People say? W. T. F! Ever listened to the founder of Wikileaks? A more raving BDS aflicted loon you wouldn't find posting at Kos or DU and a more dedicated foe of civilization you won't likely find outside a cave in Pakistan.
Listen up ya primitive screwheads. Wikileaks is BAD. You may think it is a good idea to throw all the world (of course you won't find Assange leaking secrets from an evil country that might actually KILL him... not that he disagrees with most of those countries enough to want to hurt them in the first place) and watch the powerful squirm but this won't end well. Not all information wants to be Free!
You can't do foreign policy without secret cables flying around. You can't fight wars without intelligence. You just can't. Eventually a critical mass realizes it and this problem is going to get fixed. And none of the 'fixes' are going to be things we (we meaning the typical /. reader) is going to like.
The least bad outcome longterm would be for the US govt (impossible with the current people in charge) to nip this thing in the bud now. Assange is for all intents and purposes on the other fucking side. He is acting as AQ's Intelligence arm and helping generally sow chaos and fear. Accept that and the logical consequence that follows from that. Kill Julian Assange and make it known any datacenter hosting, in ANY way including just a p2p tracker, Wikileaks content will be destroyed if they refuse the takedown notice. Of course that path won't be taken and the required fixes later will be much worse. Expect secure computing inititives to go on steroids in government and industry. People MUST be able to keep secrets and will end up paying the price in liberties if forced into it.
Wikileaks seems to be playing the PR angle a lot (Score:2, Interesting)
Wikileaks was a site that just published leaked documents. It still does this. It seems now though that it wants to be considered a major entity in its own right rather than just as an anonymous dumping ground for data. So now we have Julian Assange publicly engaged in self promotion, by revealing himself and Wikileaks pre-announcing its leaks.
It concerns me a little. It does seem to change the nature of what Wikileaks is. Is it a news site that has an explicit agenda, or an anonymous service that releases everything without taking a moral stance?
Re:Wikileaks seems to be playing the PR angle a lo (Score:5, Interesting)
Devil's Advocate to be sure, but considering the goal of this is transparancy, it would mean a lot more if the bank would come clean itself, rather than wait for a third party who claims to have them already beaten.
Re:So in short (Score:4, Interesting)
Then let all who stand accused offer up their own info to refute? I'll not hold my breath. Falsified info is easier to spot than you think, and truth is much stranger than fiction. Forced transparency is better than nothing, when you're living in the dark, like most of us suckers. Let the leaking continue!
The best part will be the GOP's response (Score:3, Interesting)
If the documents are sufficient, I wonder how they will continue to spin corrupt financial industry practices as the fault of Obama without actually doing anything useful to stop them. 9/11 spared them from Enron, and if lightning strikes twice...
Re:Messing with Government of USA is one thing (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone with the phone number of Xe [nytimes.com] and a slush fund has ready access to those things.
Re:Well kinda depends (Score:5, Interesting)
FWIW, the most recent leaks, the State cables, were pretty embarassing to other nations and, surprisingly, flattering to US diplomats.
Yemeni President joking about whisky, in a Muslim nation? Boned.
Saudi King saying the West should bomb Iran? Uh-oh.
We dont need to know everything (Score:3, Interesting)
One of the key parts of diplomacy requires diplomats to be able to give uncensored advice to political leaders that may offend the public or other leaders.
In the long run this may reduce the quality of advice our leaders get which could have tragic consequences. Its the reason why executive
priveledge exists. The most honest president the US has ever had, Grover Cleveland, fought tooth and nail for leaders being able to receive honest
and confidential advice.
A leak is only good think if it serves a legitimate public interest, not merely curiousity. If your intention is merely to cause
embarassment for embarassments sake then youre not a whistleblower.
'no privacy' goes both ways (Score:5, Interesting)
All I can say it "It's about F'ing time." Go Wikileaks Go!
For years, we have had to put up with our privacy and our rights being stolen. Now we even have to appear naked to fly. Our privacy is always under attack, and yet we are told "it's for our own good" either by the governments that assault us, or the corporations that rip us off and sell our personal data to each other.
FINALLY the time has come that governments and corporations are under the same microscope as the average joe. The internet has become the great equalizer. And notice how governments and corporations bristle at the mere thought that *their* privacy is being invaded, while they continue to casually rape us.
Yes, when it's the governments/corporations that have their privacy assailed, "ohhh the guy is a terrorist" "Assage must be imprisoned" "DDoS isn't good enough for him, hanging's too good for him!", etc..., meanwhile, few are DDoS'ing the RIAA, TransUnion, Equifax, et al.
THIS IS OUR REVOLUTION. And it's about time. Grab your pitchforks. Heads must roll.
This is just getting shameless (Score:2, Interesting)
There have so far been some things that were interesting but nothing really shocking and nothing worth the cost. Assange is not about being a serious whistle blower working for the greater good. This is about shameless self promotion and nothing more. I can't even think he is a misguided idiot now, if he really thought this was for the good of the world that this stuff comes to light he'd release whatever he has got now to make sure it gets out before someone stops him and eventually someone will stop him. You can't just run around making the movers and shakers of the world look foolish forever before there is some reprisal.
I don't think he does care if this stuff gets out, I think he is just about keeping the media circus and his own fame as grand as possible.
Re:We dont need to know everything (Score:3, Interesting)
and, it doesnt matter what's the nature of a leak - transparency, is transparency.
Re:were the leaks planted? (Score:3, Interesting)
So, they idea is: if a leak makes the US government look bad then it must be the real deal, but if it may serve the US government in some way then we have to suspect that it has been planted?
Nice judgement you have there.
This reminds me of what is going on with the leaks which state that the Government of Israel had notified both the Egyptian Government and the Palestinian Fatah before attacking the Gaza Strip during operation Cast Lead in 2008, mainly against Hammas (and thus making the Fatah look bad to the Palestinians). The international press is giving much more voice to those denying the leak than it gives to leaks which bring discomfort the US government.
Re:So... they are honoring the treaties? (Score:3, Interesting)
So are they ready to abide by the Fort Laramie [ted.com] treaties or do you mean something else?
Re:'no privacy' goes both ways (Score:3, Interesting)
So you are saying that because our privacy has been violated so should theirs? How does that help us? Wouldn't it be better to restore our privacy instead of violating others privacy? What about the economic fallout from all of this, warranted or not? What about those retirees who stand to loose even more of their fixed income because of the additional scandals? What about those who might loose jobs? Wikileaks states they want to rewrite history. In any revolution (as you put it), a lot of innocent people are hurt, far more than those actually fighting the revolution itself.
Re:I am engaging in flamebait, mod accordingly... (Score:2, Interesting)
Hey Xadelus! We're on the way to fight a revolution to get the oppressive British government off our backs!
Spare me your indignant moral outrage and nihilistic desire to watch the world burn.
Well, all right, how about if we pass a law requiring inspections of meat processing plants so that we can assure that workers are in humane conditions and-
Spare me your indignant moral outrage and nihilistic desire to watch the world burn.
Oh. Okay. Well, some guys and I are getting together to help Europe and Asia out from the threat posed by fascist governments, and we were wondering if-
Spare me your indignant moral outrage and nihilistic desire to watch the world burn.
Re:So... (Score:3, Interesting)
Honestly, I realize there are a variety of issues raised by global free trade related to the exploitation of the willingness of the desperate third-world workers to actually survive and the willingness of developing nations like China to pollute the crap out of the environment (both the local environment, in terms of "crazy bad" air quality, and in terms of carbon emissions). But I also really don't think protectionism doesn't solve these problems or help make the world a meaningfully better place. Free trade with the US has, however, improved the lot of millions of Chinese, and their society is approaching the cusp of a transformation which should ultimately leave their economy able to be driven by local consumers who can actually afford to care about things like the Environment, and who are actually able to effectively agitate for better local conditions. Because the alternative isn't Starvation anymore.
In short, the "free trade sucks" argument is ultimately short-sighted and not a very effective way to improve the world.
Re:Go, Julian, go! (Score:4, Interesting)
Wikileaks is like Big Brother watching Big Brother (Score:1, Interesting)
We, the people, have Credit Scores to keep us honest. Businesses can post behavioral information about the people, affecting their credit scores. But, people get sued for slander and libel if they don't appreciate the business, and post behaviors of the business. Look at the Class Action Lawsuits going on right now; and that the telephone companies want to use arbitration to reduce the lawsuits.
Wikileaks simply levels the playing field. It is kinda like Big Brother watching Big Brother!
Re:So... (Score:4, Interesting)
Are we better than other countries? Does this then give us a moral mandate to make the world a better place?
I would argue that sure, the USA probably is better than other countries, and yes, that probably does give you a moral mandate the make the world a better place. Power leading to responsibility, etc, etc.
It's only the means - coercive violence - by which the USA attempts to make the world a better place that I have problems with. Basically I think coercion is counterproductive and a waste of everyone's time. It doesn't change anyone's minds except the user - it makes them nastier people. So a country is good to the extent that they don't do evil stuff, and by evil I mean coercive.
But sure, as long as the USA's not doing evil stuff, go USA. You've done some good things which you should be proud of. Building the Internet for one.
Re:Well kinda depends (Score:3, Interesting)
The cables have revealed that the spanish National High Court was influenced by US diplomatics to drop some cases that were embarassing for the US. I think it's far more embarassing for us than for USA.
Re:So... (Score:3, Interesting)
Most Americans are slightly worse off than they were, better off than most of the world, but not nearly as (self reportedly) happy and fulfilled as the rest of the first world.
Now, this I want to see (Score:3, Interesting)
Bank of America has been downright criminal in some of its conduct. I recently refinanced my mortgage and closed all of my accounts just to get from under those clowns. I've suspected that a lot of their dishonest conduct has been common business practice, now I'm sure I'll have that confirmed. Things I've seen happen:
* Deposits delayed to trigger overdraft charges.
* Flat out lied to about my escrow account size. They forced me to pay about $600 to "settle" the balance, then realized they made a "mistake" that took about 8 months to correct, netting me $1100 including $500 I was owed in the first place.
* Steering me into a trap credit card when I wanted a vehicle loan. First payment was a day late and my interest rate exploded.
Re:Well kinda depends (Score:5, Interesting)
well then I'd say that is a reasonable indication that yes, they DO have an anti-US agenda.
Speaking first as a patriotic American, frankly, my first priority is to fix corruption here in the US. If WikiLeaks was publishing stuff from all nations, I would be primarily interested in the stuff about the US. Because I am a patriot. Because corruption reduces GDP. Because I want America to excel in GDP growth. (regarding the GDP-focus; my hobby-to-the-brink-of-religion is economic research)
Speaking as a pragmatic globalist, consider the correlation to monopolies. Small monopolies that have little power are not very hazardous. Large monopolies with lots of power are more hazardous. Anti-trust law focuses on the large monopolies because they have the greatest negative impact. That is rational. Similarly, the US has the most power on the global stage. I think that's a fine thing, being an American -- politically incorrect though it may be, it's good to be the king. However, being in that position means that any corruption or foul play on our part is subject to greater scrutiny. Just like big monopolies, that is a rational thing. Corruption in the US has a much bigger effect on the world than, for example, corruption in France. It only makes sense to focus on the most potent hazard, which is a combination of amount of corruption and ability to influence events. Our ability to influence is so massively outsized that it takes less corruption to make us a greater hazard.
Take your pick: Patriotic American me is happy with all the US-oriented WikiLeaks stuff because it is my house and I have a duty to help keep it clean. Pragmatic Globalist me understands that my country has a greater obligation to end corruption because we have more influence on world events.
Is WikiLeaks biased against the US? I don't care, as long as they keep publishing the US stuff -- that is the stuff that is most important to me. Frankly, Americans who feel otherwise strike me as unpatriotic.
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in southern California where gambling is illegal, unless you live on an Indian reservation. This is a gigantic boon to Indians and they make tens of millions of dollars thru their special treatment though the law. Can you explain to me how this fits with "All men are created equal". Why is it that the government has said in so many situations that "All men are created equal unless you are in this group then we need to prop you up by stealing money from other people.". Why the hell do you think you or anyone else gets to decide how much of my hard earned money goes to repay someone who has never been wronged in their life? Explain why if I was born with certain color skin in one part of California I can open a Casino, while with another color skin I cannot. I just don't think they inherently deserve money I have earned because of the color of their skin. If you can show me how the government has harmed an individual you may have an argument, but people who have never suffered deserve no reparation.
Re:So... (Score:4, Interesting)
Really? Have reparations for violations of treaties with the Native nations gone through while I wasn't looking?
The act dealing with natives died the moment the US went it's own way from Britain. The 'United States' were under no obligation or requirement to uphold any treaties. Really if the natives have a bone to pick, they should be going after Britain.
See in Canada, when we became our own country the act was still in effect as such; it's Canada problems in dealing with them, within our own sovereign borders.
I suppose it doesn't need to be said or does it? Welcome to how the world works. Treaties and documents die when new nations are formed, or split from their parent.
Also, you should learn some history on the confederacy. You'd be less ignorant then.