One Tip Enough To Put Name On Terrorist Watch List 446
Frosty P writes "As a result of the US Government's complete failure to investigate credible warnings about 'Underwear Bomber' Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab from none other than Abdulmutallab's father, senior American counterterrorism officials say they have altered their criteria so that a single-source tip can lead to a name being placed on the watch list. Civil liberties groups warn that it is now even more likely that individuals who pose no threat will be swept up in America's security apparatus, leading to potential violations of their privacy and making it difficult for them to travel. 'They are secret lists with no way for people to petition to get off or even to know if they're on,' said Chris Calabrese, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union."
Enemies of the State (Score:4, Interesting)
So now all citizens are enemies of the state? And with a "tip list" that is so easily game-able, why don't we all just submit the names of everyone who works for FOX NEWS?
I'd love to hear about Glenn Beck not being able to fly, or Sarah Palin strip-searched and groped at the airport. Now that might make FOX reverse some of their propaganda. If anything, when it comes to security theater, that's actually one of the very few things Glenn Beck and I agree on.
But since FOX yells louder than any other "news" agency (nobody watches msnbc, CNN is useless), they are a great target for this. I say make FOX an enemy of the state, and let them see how their "post 9-11 world" that they yap about so much has become an insane police-state.
They after all, are the only group to create their own grass-root support, as FOX essentially created the "Tea Party", so, only they can create enough backlash to have any effect in American politics.
Incompetence is never good for the people (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's make government incompetent --- then it will inevitably shrink down and we'll be free of it. Oh wait, hmm, doesn't work.
Not necessarily a comment on what happened in this story, just a warning to anyone who believes in the above proposition. If you hate big government, then you're definitely not going to like incompetent, underpaid, under-resourced big government. The solution is to make government work better, never the opposite.
Re:Fuck Obama's USA (Score:2, Interesting)
Just goes to show that the US Federal bureaucracy is an un-tameable beast that no administration can manage. Shame on Bush for starting it, shame on Obama for letting it grow.
Re:Liberty and safety (Score:5, Interesting)
I had a facebook "friend" and former classmate tell me I am overreacting and the TSA breat/penis-fondling is no big deal. So I copied that Ben Franklin quote *from the friends page* as my response.
His reply: "Flying is not an essential liberty." Then he unfriended me. (sigh) The 9th and 10th amendments, plus more court cases than I can list here, assert that these ARE essential liberties. How can people be so dumb that they think the right to travel (including by plane) should not be protected? Or that getting felt-up by police at the port is okay?
I could understand such things if you are crossing an international border, but not if you're flying from St. Louis to New York or some other local flight. About a year ago a Ron Paul employee was stopped by the TSA and interrogated for an hour. His crime: He had 3000 dollars in cash in a lockbox. They were donations from Paul's supporters, but the TSA wanted to drag him off to the Drug Enforcement Agency to be charged for suspected smuggling.
It's complete and utter bullshit.
Re:TSA Agents (Score:3, Interesting)
Or even better, no change will happen and lobbyists can't fly anymore. Making them unable to do their jobs, thereby making the government "of the people, by the people, for the people" again.
My brother is on the list... (Score:5, Interesting)
I did the anonymous coward as it's probably better for this post than others, but needless to say my family is of Pakistani origin, and about two years ago my brother was accused of being a terrorist.
Of course, the guy that pointed the finger at him was about to go to jail himself because he beat his girlfriend over the head with a baseball bat, so he said he knew the whereabouts of a terrorist. My brother was Muslim, he knew that, and that's all it took. The charges were bunk of course, and the guy was stupid enough to email my brother saying "Yea well I'll tell everybody you're a terrorist!", which he showed to the FBI agents that showed up at our house. They were satisfied with that, thanked us for our time, and said that we don't have to worry about it again.
Fast forward to the next year when my brother goes overseas (not the Middle East) to get some research done for his thesis -- he comes back and I went to pick him up from the airport, and was waiting there for FOUR HOURS. The TSA and whomever else inside were questioning him for hours. He's on their watch list because some douchebag that beat up his girlfriend thought he'd get a lesser sentence by ratting out some Muslim guy.
Either way, it's a sad state of affairs nowadays, even a trip over the border he is detained for hours at a time. He has gotten used to it since he can't do anything about it, and showing resistance basically implies you're guilty of something. So he takes it. But the unfortunate thing is that he's far from the only one, and I imagine that lots of people are affected by this, and it's sad. What more, even if you share a name with a would-be terrorist (do you know how many Omars there are out there?) then you get screwed too. Our intelligence services are atrocious, our airport security worse, and our lack of civil liberties eroding quickly. And while right now it's only Muslims that are getting screwed, it's not too far to think it won't be gun owners, or political opponents, or anything else. It's just sick to me, and upsetting since I was born and raised in the US, just like my brother.
Nominate your elected officials (Score:4, Interesting)
I propose that people nominate their elected officials for inclusion on the terrorist watch list. Once a few politicians have to deal with this list they will see their way clear to impose more reasonable standards for inclusion...
I can think of 535 members of congress I'd like to add to the list, but what might be even more meaningful would be if their chiefs of staff were put on the list (they might be under the TSA radar and actually get added to the list, whereas a Senator or Congressman's name might be identified and flagged before making the list).
I tend to not support such acts, but in this case I'll make an exception... The issue here is the near-impossibility of ever getting off the list once on it.
Re:The Republic (Score:4, Interesting)
Things are grim in terms of economy and human rights in USA, I'd agree thus far, but I wouldn't worry about WWIII. USA even had to stop dead in its plans to attack Iran due to waning economy and internal political issues.
The word is out: getting rid of the US dollar as the backup currency has become a priority for every bigger nation/union in the world.
The process has started, with the Middle East working on moving towards the Euro, and China/Russia recently opening a new exchange market in their own currencies (to replace the USD they use now) and the rest are to follow soon.
Without this backup, the dollar will quickly devalue, USA will not have the ability anymore to loan resources for its empire ambitions, even if Hitler himself was revived and elected for the next president.
Re:Incompetence is never good for the people (Score:3, Interesting)
>>>The solution is to make government work better
No the solution is to have massive layoffs. I worked for the FAA and 75% of the staff just sat surfing the net all day. Plus closures of departments that don't really need to exist like the Dept of Education - not only is this an unconstitutional creation (Congress was never granted power to educate) but it is also better handled locally by the State Governments, since they are closer to the voice of the people. (My state rep lives right in my neighborhood; it doesn't get any more directly democratic than that.)
The solution is to downsize government the same way corporations downsize - in order to create a better more efficient organization. Layoffs of non-working workers and closures of departments that are (a) redundant or (b) not necessary.
You'd be surprised who makes the list... (Score:2, Interesting)
On a recent family holiday to Florida (from the UK), my son was singled out for specific attention and searches on both sides of the Atlantic. The airport manager later told me that he had been matched on a watch-list. Although he's got a completely western name, which isn't that common, I guess he did have a few reasons he triggered this attention.
1/ His electronic visa application was made about 36hrs before flying
2/ His passport had just been renewed
3/ He was travelling on a one-way ticket
Mind you as he's five years old, I'd kind of hoped that lot would have been ignored. Hard to tell what is worse, dumb computer decisions like this, or the prospect of dumb border guards making decisions for themselves.
Re:Perhaps. (Score:2, Interesting)
Odds of dying from a terrorist on an airplane:
1 in 5000.
That's the same odds of dying in a US tsunami, or getting hit on the head by a meteorite, or winning the Big Lotto prize. Twice. I do not fear any of these events happening, therefore I do not fear death by terrorist. Neither should you.
Re:Perhaps. (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you miss the point. As a citizen, I shouldn't have my options limited without due process. The Governor of Pennsylvania was right when he said we've become a nation of wussies. Here's how I see it:
1. Bomb-in-underwear-guy failed.
2. No one except Bomb-in-underwear-guy was hurt.
3. People will always criticize and say "You aren't doing enough to make us safe!" That doesn't mean it's true.
4. Therefor; Stop catering to the pussies and hypocrites
This isn't about protecting lives. This is about controlling spin in a 24-hour news cycle. Americans can take care of themselves. The only people who claim differently are those who gain power by offering "protection". I should never have any rights impinged upon to make it convenient for some politico to avoid criticism.
Re:Liberty and safety (Score:2, Interesting)
As for that "friend" he was doing you a favor.
Re:TSA Agents (Score:5, Interesting)
Then why are they given powers that are not given to average humans? This is the same thing that goes on with police officers. When they're doing their job well they're touted as "Brave heroes better than most of the population" but when they're making mistakes they're "only human".
The solution is more oversight of people with more power.
Re:My brother is on the list... (Score:2, Interesting)
If it's any consolation, Muslims are NO the only ones to be deeply worried by Obama's Gestapo Security Apparatus. I, as a Finn, feel quite threatened, too, and have no desire to put a foot in the USA at the moment. It's too bad, because I quite liked it before the great dictator came to power. But the scanning, the no-fly lists and the tap down - no thanks. Besides, I have many Pakistani colleagues (fellow scientists) that would have trouble traveling to the USA. If they can't go, I'm certainly not going to be an asshole and replace them or go without them.
Fuck you, Obama. I like Bilal and Ali far better than I do you, fucking fascist douchebag.
Re:My brother is on the list... (Score:4, Interesting)
Why not? I mean, did the multiple IRA and ETA bombings in the last century affect the lives of catholics in general? After the recent sex abuse scandals, did catholics end up on a "no-working-with-children" list? Why not?
Fox News and other conservatives tends to have a "negative attitude towards the West" as well (meaning western liberalism), instead exposing a moralistic view more akin to the Islamists...