BT Content Connect May Impact Net Neutrality 138
a Flatbed Darkly writes "BT's Content Connect, a service which many have accused of threatening net neutrality, has apparently launched, although it is unknown whether or not any ISPs have bought or are planning to buy it yet; BT has denied the allegations, from Open Rights Group among others, that this, despite certainly being an anti-competitive service, does not create a two-tier internet. From the article: '"Contrary to recent reports in the media, BT's Content Connect service will not create a two-tier internet, but will simply offer service providers the option of differentiating their broadband offering through enhanced content delivery," a BT spokeswoman said.'"
Welcome to new-speak (Score:5, Insightful)
She denies that their service creates a two-tier internet, then goes on to describe their service which, is to create a two-tier internet. Nice.
Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:5, Funny)
Marco: "Commissar. I have rehabilitated another group of the party's enemies." ....
Murphy: "Ha haaaa! Yeah! What does rehabilitated mean again?"
Marco: "Beaten the asses of."
Murphy: "I LOVE new-speak!"
Murphy: "Now, if you'll excuse me, we need to rehabilitate Phil...in the face."
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Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:5, Funny)
She denies that their service creates a two-tier internet, then goes on to describe their service which, is to create a two-tier internet. Nice.
Your problem is that you're mistakenly thinking of them as "tiers." That's not the case. It's more like two different levels of service.
Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:5, Funny)
Your problem is that you're mistakenly thinking of them as "tiers." That's not the case. It's more like two different levels of service.
Lucky bastards. My ISP doesn't even give one level of service.
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Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:5, Interesting)
Far more worryingly than a CDN in the exchange which people might *gasp* be expected to pay for, the page promoting it http://www.contentconnect.bt.com/ [bt.com] Seems to include clips of "Elephants Dream" which is CC-BY licensed without any attribution anywhere that I can see.
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Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:4, Interesting)
CC-BY license requires attribution according to how the rights-holder specifies; it's not specified by the CC-BY license terms itself.
Without knowing how the copyright owner wants it to be specified, you can't know whether a specific method of attribution is in compliance.
Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:4, Interesting)
If you dont pay you can wait for the converted "Bring out your dead" cart to be filled and get pushed along a dirt track. -kept to the shared, oversubscribed best effort networks.
BT should have spent more on backhaul.
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It's just good business sense on any tiered business. Don't make the cheap product too good, otherwise you cut into demand for the expensive product.
Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it a two-tier Internet, or is it a glorified video-caching service? How is this different from Akamai?
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Re:'best effort' service (Score:2)
They don't need to throttle anything - that would be legally dubious. It's much safer for them to just do nothing, neglecting to upgrade the connection. They will still be providing a 'best effort' service, but just making sure that the best they can do isn't too good.
I'm pretty sure this is what Time Warner / Road Runner are doing in my Kansas City neighborhood right now. Every evening I get to see my DL rate drop to .8-2mbps and my pings rise to about 100 with occasional packet loss. It's sad when my 1mbps UL is greater than my DL.
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These aren't the droids we're looking for.
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Anyone else noticed this trend in companies where the bad news or damage control is always handled by spokeswomen?
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"Contrary to recent reports in the media, BT's Content Connect service will not create a two-tier internet, but will simply offer service providers the option of differentiating their broadband offering through enhanced content delivery,"
Or in other words:
"Contrary to recent reports in the media, BT's Content Connect service will not create a two-tier internet, but will
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It's logical; both men and women usually react better to women.
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No no no, normal bandwidth is 100%.
premium bandwidth is just a bit more 100%-ier than plain bandwidth.
They're all equal, some are just more equal than others.
Re:Welcome to new-speak (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, did you read up and understand what this is all about? Or am I misunderstanding completely what BT is offering? Seems to me BT is simply offering to cache content on their own network to eliminate a lot of network hops, and reduce latency.
Can someone tell me how an ISP offering to cache media content, for a price, violates net neutrality or somehow manages to create a two-tier internet? Is Netflix _not_ allowed to pay BT to keep a copy of their movies available just for BT customers? Is BT _not_ allowed to cache high usage content that gets repeated hits from their users? I absolutely, positively don't see why anyone is making a big deal of this. Caching servers have been around for ages, and this seems to be just the next logical step. Are caching proxies now verboten?
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Not to mention, as far as I'm aware Virgin Media (BT's main/only competitor with regards to infrastructure used for broadband) already do this.
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She was probably misunderstood -- "there are no tears here!"
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She denies that their service creates a two-tier internet, then goes on to describe their service which, is to create a two-tier internet. Nice.
No, no. You misunderstand what she said. The service doesn't create a two tier internet. No, the service allows their *customers* to create two-tier internet.
Those customers will presumably include BT Openworld, who are a separate company and not even slightly connected to BT Wholesale, honest guv.
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They call it the "class system"
two tiers (Score:3)
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No, they do it by putting mirror nodes in local exchanges, freeing redundant, duplicated transmissions. Not stealing, releasing.
So what? (Score:2)
Nobody has yet to explain why it's wrong for them to charge for access to their private networks however they wish.
What a polite euphemism (Score:5, Funny)
I ran that through babelfish and got the translation: "Fuck you! We'll do whatever we want and you can't do a thing about it."
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That's the BT way!
Re:What a polite euphemism (Score:4, Funny)
I set my copy of Babelfish to Simpsons and got Nelson's "Ha Ha!"
differentiating = not neutral (Score:3)
Do they think people are so stupid that they can just use big words to lie to people? Oh wait...
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Don't be silly. Some services will just be a little less neutral than others.
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No, having non paying client become less neutral is what we are all fighting about.
*THIS* allows paying clients/customers to become even MORE neutral, while leaving the unpaying client(s) completely the same neutral.
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What is Content Connect
The Content Connect product is designed to enable Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to deliver video content within the UK to their customers more cost effectively than it has been possible to do previously. This is achieved by connecting a Content Distribution & Delivery platform to the IPstream Connect and Wholesale Broadband Connect networks. The Content Distribution & Delivery platform will be placed in the broadband network so that content by-passes the ISPs backhaul. Content Connect gives the opportunity for the ISPs to have a commercial relationship with the Content Service Providers (CSPs).
The Content Connect Basic product is for the CSP market
The Content Connect Standard and Premium service is available to ISPs who have a commercial relationship with CSPs.
Content Connect Key Benefits
End Users benefit from the new Content Connect product:
TV video entertainment will be delivered to the home through a broadband line with the option of an enhanced experience including HD internet video on TV.
ISPs benefit from the new Content Connect product:
Brings ISPs into the content value chain and allows them to earn revenue from delivering internet video from CSPs .
CSPs benefit from the new Content Connect product:
CSPs can have their content delivered at a higher quality of service.
For further information please contact your Account Manager
I think I like this. It basically says hey, ISPs pay for back-haul bandwidth (i.e. Level 3 plugs into Qwest, NetFlix is on Level 3's side, Qwest lets you access NetFlix, Qwest pays for the ASSLOADS of bandwidth they ring up across their link to Level 3's network), so now ISPs have the option of entering a deal with NetFlix to coordinate between NetFlix, Qwest, and technical consultant BT to get NetFlix's data on Qwest's side of the fence. NetFlix doesn't move; it just puts a back-end link or a copy of th
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In UK terms, back-haul refers to the connection from the ADSL provider's kit in the exchange ( central office ) back to the ISP's network through the ADSL provider's POPs. This is distinct from the ISP's connection to the Internet ( Level 3 in your example ).
ISPs which rent ADSL services wholesale from BT Group generally use BT's back-haul but there are various back-haul options ( big players being BE, Easynet and C&W ).
This BT service delivers content from the POPs, so that the ISP's backhaul is not l
BT Content? (Score:1)
"BT's Content Connect, a service which many have accused of threatening net neutrality, has apparently launched, although it is unknown whether or not any ISPs have bought or are planning to buy it yet
Why would ISPs have to pay to use Bittorrent? Isn't it free and Open Source?
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Just in case you aren't being silly, BT (in this case) is short for British Telecom.
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Until then they will just cash in on the end users addiction for a non buffering connection every month.
Bittorrent does provide a nice cover in a press release when all non enhanced content hits a hard shaped wall.
akamai (Score:3)
Sounds like Akamai
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Akami is saying 'we can deliver your stuff faster' but BT is saying 'pay us more for everything you dont want slowed down'.
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I think this is basically an Akamai-like caching server. And I can see where the controversy lies.
If BT implements this and doesn't intentionally throttle other services, I don't see this as a violation of neutrality - BT is not discriminating against anyone in using the Internet pipe, they are simply maintaining a cache service for those who want to cough up a little more dough for their web sites to be stored in a local cache. BP customers can still access anything they want on the Internet at Internet
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That is very short sighted.
It will DEFINATELY become abused because then either everyone needs to start paying, or the service will get so bad that it will become unusable. For example netflix which has PLENTY of outgoing bandwidth, and I which have nearly 10 times the bandwidth to receive a movie can't watch it because it gets bottlenecked by the connection between my ISP and netflix. My ISP won't upgrade their connection, and instead starts to suggest that netflix buy a caching server on their network t
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I think you may have missed my point, or I made it poorly (which is likely). Let me try again.
The issue at hand is network neutrality.
A caching service like this can easily benefit both the ISP and the customer by reducing unnecessary bandwidth, as long as it isn't abused. The gist of the article is that "caching servers bad", and I disagree. I agree that caching servers can be abused, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
So in the network neutrality discussion, do we want to say that
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You forgot option #4, which is what we currently have.
Caching for it is allowed, and the ISP is responsible for the implementation, and is free of charge as an added benefit they can market.
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You can stop right there. If BT's pipes were not already massively oversold to the point of pure comedy, they would not be trying to move companies like YouTube to caching servers in the first place. Therefore, the current state of affairs is essentially that they are massively throttling everyone's services. In short, if they implement this, they'd be violating the principles of net neutrality from day one.
That's the problem. As s
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As soon as they implement this, assuming YouTube buys in (or is granted free access as a "special" customer)
I really can't see BT giving away Petabytes of disk to Youtube, especially when it'd have to be in each exchange.
Having said that, I guess they'd just cache the most frequently accessed content (they'd have no choice, given storage constraints).
BT's infrastructure monopoly (Score:2)
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You're only thinking ADSL - and, yes, 90% of the ADSL out there is over BT-owned copper. There are some phone companies that do LLU so although it uses original BT copper, it's literally only using the *copper* and actually connected to non-BT equipment in the exchange, hence BT has no say over it. Bulldog used to do this but they are only available in limited areas, for obvious reasons (where they can make money by pulling enough people off BT equipment and taking the "risk" themselves).
However, over oth
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It's just a CDN. (Score:1)
Bingo! (Score:1)
BULLSHIT! - Wait we're not playing BS Bingo?
BT stands for British Communications PLC (Score:5, Informative)
Acronyms can be confusing, so please explain them before using the acronym.
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Specifically, it could easily be confused with BitTorrent in this context.
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Especially since BT serves a very small country (Britain, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland together don't have the land area or population of Texas).
If you're talking about BitTorrent, the acronym BT doesn't need to be explained here, but to those of us in Australia, Canada, the US, and in fact every other country in the whole world, British Telecom needs to be spelled out.
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They should change their name from British Telecommunications to British Sales. It sounds like BS would fit their image better than BT.
Not quite getting it (Score:1)
Going through the content connect website, it appears that instead of content traveling from content providers through the internet to an ISP, then to end users, instead, now it goes from a content connect content provider, who is hosting the content provider's content, held in cache, somehow physically closer to end users, and bypasses the ISP.
Obviously this cannot be true, but that is what the combination of words and moving images would present.
Most vexing is the concept that this is supposed to make hig
This is your run of the mill CDN (Score:5, Interesting)
Similar to those deployed by Akamai and Limelight for their customers, and by Google and Microsoft for themselves.
A typical case of a Telco moving into an additional market.
Arguably, it does allow BT to offer multi-tier services. But it is not packet-level differentiation
in the network, which is the issue at the heart of the net-neutrality debate.
If Content Distribution Networks violate net neutrality and the /. crowd thinks so, then
we should be blasting Akamai and Google long time before we started blasting the Telcos.
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The issue here is preferential treatment of packets originating from CDNs on BT's preferred (paying) provider list. If Google or Akamai offered my broadband connection, and gave their own products preference over other people's competing products, they'd be shot down in seconds by anti-competition laws. The fact that they're paying BT for this service is the very definition of a breach of network neutrality: A packet being given preference over another because of its content, source, or destination.
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Absolutely not. You don't need to differentiate packet based on content, source or destination to provide CDN services.
You just need to build a CDN, i.e., caches, mechanisms for content replication close to its destinations etc etc.
Akamai does not need Telcos to differentiate packets for its CDN to work. Similarly Telco CDNs do not imply that Telcos differentiate packets.
If I am still not understood, here is the wikipedia definition to make it easier for you.
"A content delivery network or content distributi
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Maybe Akamai is a bad example. Think of it more as Skype and $Foo VoIP service. Skype doesn't pay for Content Connect, $Foo does. When the network is saturated, $Foo packets will be given priority over Skype packets, making Skype's service less valuab
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We blast you long time!
For the network ignorant (Score:1, Insightful)
Please excuse what is probably a fairly ignorant question, I'm not too clued in about networking.
A quick look about the BT website in the summary brings up a page supposedly explaining how it works: what they seem to be saying is that they take "Connect Content" and put it on its own server which is physically closer to wherever you are. Then, instead of having to connect to a server, say, 3,000 miles away via choc-a-bloc networks for that video, you're connecting to one maybe one or two hundred miles awa
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As usual, RTFA, if you have the requisite skill. The only content on the network involved is BT premium content. There is nothing else there to throttle. Even if you have trouble reading, you can see it in the picture.
Separate server, separate network, separate service.
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A lot of people don't like the idea of ISP serving content at all due to the conflict of interest that leads to net neutrality issues. While this particular case is a mild example of it, once we start allowing this kind of thing, it's a slippery slope to all kinds of problems.
Australia already have a kind of tiered internet.. (Score:1)
A lot of the mobile phone subscription deals and some of the 3G internet-only subscriptions have severe limits but 'unlimited' access to sites like facebook and youtube.
You can also buy additional access to a selection of usual social-media sites for most subscriptions. Look here [three.com.au] for some pricing examples.
With our restrictive data limits even on fixed ADSL lines i would not be surprised if we get so see some "unlimited access to facebook" deals in the near future.
Its already bad and it is only going to get
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I find the YouTube deal particularly annoying, simply because whenever I went over my data limits, it was normally for email and browsing, and certainly not streamed video. So based on the effect that streamed video is going to put a much bigger strain on a mobile network than web and email, I can only assume that backroom deals have been done, and hence a multi-tiered
We've *never* had net neutrality (Score:2, Insightful)
The ISPs have always had a market where more money == faster service, we are also used to the idea of paywalls where some stuff is free and other stuff needs money to get access to. So where, exactly, does this idea that everyone should get access to everything for the same price come from? Would it still be "net neutral" if Facebook suddenly started charging $10 / year for "membership"? Is that really any different from your ISP sayin
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Dozens to choose from? In my city, there is one cable company (Time Warner), and a few unreliable DSL providers to choose from, with peak transfer rates below one megabyte/second. And trying to play even casual realtime online games with satellite is an exercise in frustration. Who, exactly, should I switch to?
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If you think your ISP is screwing you, just change to another. There are dozen / hundreds to choose from - the free market will kill off any that aren't competitive.
That's great, as long as you live in a sufficiently populated area. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. There are many, many places where there is one, government-subsidized ISP to choose from because it is a remote area where the free market cannot support even a single ISP. I suppose you could always switch to satellite, but (warning: bad /. car analogy!) that's kind of like saying you can choose between a Yugo and a skateboard for transportation.
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Fair enough. But, would any of those services (outside USPS) exist if we had 'mail neutrality' rules that meant all shipping companies were REQUIRED to carry first class mail, bulk rate mail, magazines, packages, etc, and were PREVENTED from offering differentiating services like expedited delivery? That would mean that the only way for those companies to 'compete' would either be to a) have faster overall service for all mail (very expensive), or b) get into a price war. Neither one of those options is
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How would net neutrality allow offers of higher bandwidth, etc? If they are truly neutral then they must either raise the bandwidth for everyone or no-one. And that is exactly what I said - their only options for differentiation are raise the bandwidth (expensive) or engage in a price war.
I don't understand your point about 'nothing you can do about it'. There IS something you can do about it - you can pay the same rate as Amazon does to get the better service. UPS (and all the other shipping companies)
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I do understand the point of neutrality, I just don't agree with it. I, as a consumer, am not the slightest bit interested in bandwidth, just like I am not interest in signing a contract with UPS so that ALL my packages are delivered 'next day'. I don't care if my email takes a few seconds longer to arrive. I don't care if OS updates take much longer to arrive. However, I am very interested in having the two or three NetFlix movies I watch a month being displayed at high quality and smoothly. If that r
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Ban Toll Roads! (Score:2)
So what are you going to do? Make it illegal to bypass existing internet nodes to deliver IP services? Make it illegal to offer more bandwidth than existing IP services? How about making it illegal to charge more than any existing IP Service? How about making it illegal to charge less than any existing IP Service?
Why don't we just quit all this nonsense and pass laws for bandwidth and price controls, along with an "IP Commission" to enforce them?
Oops! Somebody once said "Be careful with sarcasm; the idi
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From the BBC article:
The spokesperson said that BT would not throttle or discriminate against other video services on the network, but did not rule out that ISPs using the network could do so.
BT already do. Between 4PM and 12AM, some services are throttled to a point where they are not usable. Youtube being one of them.
3:57PM, Youtube is fine, 4:03PM, good luck trying to play anything that is HD. iPlayer plays fine.
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I had the misfortune of being at the end of a BT line for the past 10 days, and noticed throttling of torrents, at least, at some times of the day.
I had been torrenting on a Zen line and had been maxing out the line all day with the stuff I was downloading. When I tried to finish a torrent off on the BT (business grade) connection it would only go to a maximum of about 25k/sec. Fired up some other torrents, and whilst trying to figure out what was going on, the maximum overall for multiple torrents seemed t
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The problem is that the backbone necessary to do that costs serious money. A CDN is a more efficient use of the existing infrastructure, and costs a whole lot less than an extra few thousand miles of fiber.
What amazes me is that BT and other ISPs don't simply offer this for free, because it benefits them as much as it does their customers. I guess any revenue stream is a good revenue stream, but if they simply cached ALL static content and worked out deals with people like NetFlix to store encrypted copie