The Guardian's Complicated Relationship With Julian Assange 237
Sonny Yatsen writes "Vanity Fair has published an interesting behind-the-scenes look at the unlikely and tumultuous working relationship between WikiLeaks' Julian Assange and The Guardian as the Iraq War Logs were being published. The piece highlights the differences and conflicts between the Guardian's journalistic standards and WikiLeaks' transparency. Particularly interesting is the revelation that Julian Assange threatened to sue The Guardian if they publish a portion of Iraq War Logs leaked to them by a disgruntled WikiLeaks volunteer, claiming 'he owned the information and had a financial interest in how and when it was released.'"
Aww poor Assange has to deal with leakers. (Score:5, Insightful)
What was he thinking? Threatening to sue? Did he really say he "owned" the documents?
This is exactly the problem everyone has with Assange and why Openleaks will replace Wikileaks.
Wikileaks no longer acts as a leak facilitator, it is not a political organization which selects what to leak, when, how. It's no longer a technology that acts like a dumb pipe, it's no longer functioning under network neutrality, it's now controlled top down by God aka Julian Assange.
Wikileaks will be buried a year from now. Openleaks and many other organizations far superior will replace Wikieaks. Assange over estimated his importance.
And I'm not someone who likes leaking in general, but if they are going to facilitate leaks then it has to be a dumb pipe which has no ability of the facilitator to decide what does or does not get leaked, how, or any of that. It should pass through the facilitator technology directly to the news organization, and there should be no interaction between the facilitator organization or it's technology and the sources EVER.
perhaps Mr A is not so open after all (Score:5, Insightful)
BIG difference if this was all a "for the public/good/mankind" effort.... making money from this stuff makes him look like a bloody spy/traitor/commercial scumbag.
This really changes the tenor, doesn't it?
It will be interesting to read the spin now. This act alone may be the unravelling.
Re:Aww poor Assange has to deal with leakers. (Score:5, Insightful)
If he is selling your secrets, what stops him from selling them to someone else when he is getting a little low on funds?
What happens when he stops selling to keep himself out of jail?
Transparency isn't a product
Re:Aww poor Assange has to deal with leakers. (Score:4, Insightful)
A democratic government has to be made accountable, a government run in secret makes getting that accountability harder.
A private person, on the other hand, should have the right to keep things private from the public, for example the police file on him.
Otherwise, you might as well support AT&T wire-tapping your phones and selling your secrets to the highest bidders ("Hello KingFrog, I'm calling from Ford. I hear you mentioned interest in our 2011 Focuse to your friend on the phone just a few minutes ago? Can I interest you in our attractive financing deal?").
Re:Aww poor Assange has to deal with leakers. (Score:5, Insightful)
If he is selling your secrets, what stops him from selling them to someone else when he is getting a little low on funds?
That sentence is redundant. Wikileaks cares only about big players and governments, the same ones that are the dirty rotten voyeurs data-mining the hell out of you -- the little guy -- sucking up your voice and data traffic like James Brown sucked the crack smoke from his glass dick*. The governments are the schoolyard bully who literally cries foul when that one brave kid mans up and finally hits him back. That brave kid is Assange.
So Assange is a douchebag -- so what? Do you damsels in distress want the perfect, innocent, lovable Aquaman to come to your rescue and stand up for truth and justice? Do you guys want Jesus Christ(TM) to come kiss them on their crooked foreheads?
Assange has what many of you don't -- a spine. No, he's not perfect. But he's done more in a few years than most of us will do in our entire lifetimes. Lighten the hell up, grab a bag of popcorn, and enjoy the fireworks.
* For those of you who grew up in a plastic bubble, "glass dick" is slang for crackpipe
"The way he said it" (Score:5, Insightful)
"The way he said it"
We don't know _how_ he said it. All we how is how the reporter paraphrased it. And it isn't even a paraphrased quote as such, it's merely a summary of something that was allegedly said.
I dunno (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno. Will people instead risk their job and freedom... just to make some dickweed richer?
I mean, as long as it was some rhetoric about government transparency and accountability and all, sure, I can see how it would resonate right with a lot of people. But if that information just ends up "owned" by Assange and used to make some money for _him_, then wth, those people leaking stuff are just some unpaid sharecroppers.
And really, the right idea is that the government and information about the government belongs to the _people_. And, wth, at what point does that become "owned by Assange" or "for sale to the highest bidder"?
Disclaimer: I'm not entirely unbiased there. I've had the brief misfortune of being a coder on a MUD whose admins and all were very heavy on the OSS, openness and whatnot rhetoric. Then it turns out they're only for openness when it isn't about "their" code, meaning actually the code contributed by idealistic peons like yours truly. In fact, it was a whole surrealistic paranoia where everyone is out to steal "their" files and you had to jump through hoops and be treated like a spy to even get the headers you need to contribute such code. Now the situation isn't entirely similar, and it doesn't make me a freedom fighter or anything. But just saying that I happen to know first hand how it feels to contribute something in the name of some idealistic noble goal, and see it turned into someone else's property and glory. And it's a very bitter pill.
And I can't help think how the guy who risked losing his job or going to jail to contribute those documents must feel when he reads that they're now Assange's private property, and that it's about making Assange money rather than any idealistic noble goal. I mean, wth, I didn't risk anything and still felt majorly shafted. How does it feel to think "I might go to jail if found out and/or be the guy nobody hires any more because of that, but damn, I made Assange some money"? Probably not fun.
Either that (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm more interested in the message, but good or bad it doesn't stop the messenger from being an asshole.
This never should have been about him, but it seems he wanted his name and self out there. Smear campaign or not, he brought this shit on himself. Seems we can't have a Wikileaks story that doesn't mention or completely focus on the prick/saint. If Wikileaks were faceless, then the media would have to choose between focusing on the story or ignoring it. Assange has let them cop out and focus on the man.
Re:Aww poor Assange has to deal with leakers. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, you tell me. Why didn't wikileaks happen until Assange made it happen? Why do strong-willed people like Richard Stallman, Jimmy Wales, and Mark Zuckerberg make history while most of us inoffensive types fail to make an impact at all? Must be coincidence.
Re:Aww poor Assange has to deal with leakers. (Score:4, Insightful)
What was he thinking? Threatening to sue? Did he really say he "owned" the documents?
Oh dear, I have a nasty feeling this will come back to bite him if the US prosecutes. "Responsible whistleblower", "acting in the public interest", "public right to know", all those usual defences for publishing classified information tend go get a teensy bit undermined if you've been caught saying that really your motivation in publishing this classified information is personal financial gain.
A pity, because personally I thought the take-home message from this whole saga so far was that it seemed actually governments could operate much more openly without the world crashing to its knees after all -- the much-feared releases, as published in The Guardian etc, had been very interesting and informative but had been received by the world at large in a very calm and reasonable manner, without disastrous consequences after all.
Re:And the rumor of Assange being an informant (Score:5, Insightful)
is being spread through Cryptome. The rumor that he is an informant for the Austrlian Federal Police does seem to be backed up by the story about him receiving warnings from Austrlian intelligence about dirty tricks.
That's the funniest thing I've heard so far this year. Congratulations!
Seriously: Could you provide even the slightest corroboration for this?
And while you're at it, I'd appreciate if you could respond to the stories floating around here lately that you're just making these accusations to draw attention away from the fact that you're a serial killer who stuffs live puppies and kittens into the gutted corpses of your victims and then burns them alive in a satanic death cult ritual.
... I'm not saying you actually did that, but now that people are talking, perhaps you could respond to the accusations.
Re:perhaps Mr A is not so open after all (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, because principled people dine on fluffy clouds of candy floss delivered by unicorns. They don't need any of that filthy lucre! How dare that bastard defend Wikileaks' interest like any other business would? For shame!
Look: Assange is a jerk, and an angry one at that. So when he sees the Guardian positioning itself to take Wikileaks out of the decision-making process as to when and how the leaks get released, he pitches a fit. But he's also smart and technically astute, so he consults his lawyer, who tells him that in order to get an injunction stopping publication, Assange needs to demonstrate that he owns the material in question. Furthermore, he can threaten to sue for damages if he claims financial losses.
For Assange, this is a reasonable approximation of the truth, and he's willing to use that line if it will pull the Guardian back into line, so that he can coordinate the release of the US diplomatic cables across 5 different news organisations. So he storms into the Editor's office, attorney by his side, and stakes his claim.
Some of the Guardian staff, who are tired of Assange (because he's a jerk), want to tell him to go get stuffed. But the Editor sees that things could get messy. He gets everyone seated around a table and after a lot of talking (and some wine), everyone calms down.
This is one of the most mundane little bits of newsroom drama imaginable. Egos get out of line, everyone fights over the right to release, and editors do what they do, which is to herd all the cats back into line.
If anyone for a moment thinks that Assange is trying to cash in on this, they really need to learn a little about the guy. The Vanity Fair story itself says that for years he had only two outfits. He sleeps on people's couches, for heaven's sake. The guy can act like a paranoid prick, yes, but there's a hell of a lot more Stallman in him than Zuckerberg.
No, not at all. Now quick picking at the shiny bits of the story and try seeing what actually happened.
Re:Aww poor Assange has to deal with leakers. (Score:5, Insightful)
The point is: you don't have to be a dick to run Wikileaks. It's not part of the job description. In fact it probably is a negative attribute.
I know lots of people who stand up to injustice who I don't have to throw up qualifiers on before speaking of their integrity.
My hope is that Assange is really just brewing personal controversy to selflessly keep the News Cycle affixed to the attached story longer than "Big leak today, lots of embarrassed public officials. And now a Squirrel on a skateboard." ...but I don't think he's that clever.
Re:perhaps Mr A is not so open after all (Score:5, Insightful)
So when he sees the Guardian positioning itself to take Wikileaks out of the decision-making process as to when and how the leaks get released, he pitches a fit.
Which should raise a red flag, he sees his organization as the gatekeeper of information. We should be fearful of any organization that wields such control over data, especially since WikiLeaks has demonstrated they are not beyond using it in a threatening manner.
It's clear that WikiLeaks is not about complete transparency and more about ensuring their own agenda is advanced.
Re:Successful censor is successful. (Score:4, Insightful)
The Character assassination plot on Assange was a major success.
If only he hadn't made it so easy.
Nobody is discussing it so eagerly anymore
That happens to every story after a while. No new documents have been released recently, that's the thing that matters, not Assange. Maybe you are just upset because you expected this to start a revolution or something.
Julian is in jail. Nobody believes in him anymore. Wikileaks is dead, and nobody even noticed.
What are you talking about? Most people I talk to, including me, are really interested to see what gets leaked about the banks. Wikileaks is far from dead.
The CIA pulled yet another successful operation on its own people and the world, and the press took care of cleaning up after them.
Oh, seriously? You think it was the CIA that did this? With the black helicopters? If the CIA were so good at PR, Pelosi would be in jail right now. They may have done this, but until there is evidence, I will leave you with this quote, "Conspiracy theories appeal to those who are more familiar with how Hollywood works than how the world works."
Exactly (Score:2, Insightful)
Godwin be damned but the nazi's were bitten by commies, racists, anti-semites and biggots. Yes Americans, one of them is you or do you care to explain the moral difference between "Geine Juden" and "Whites Only"? The russians is obvious and the British racial crimes are so many that god has reserved a special place in hell for them, it is called england and it is a bleak and desperate place indeed to be damned to live in.
Real heroes ain't supermen, they are people who decided to standup when most bent over and they don't always standup for purely noble reasons. Many a soldier fought for freedom but joined for the excitement. The fireman who rescues you from a burning house still cashes a paycheck and doesn't life on the adoration alone.