Requiring Algebra II In High School Gains Momentum 490
ChadHurley writes with this quote from the Washington Post:
"Of all of the classes offered in high school, Algebra II is the leading predictor of college and work success, according to research that has launched a growing national movement to require it of graduates. In recent years, 20 states and the District have moved to raise graduation requirements to include Algebra II, and its complexities are being demanded of more and more students. The effort has been led by Achieve, a group organized by governors and business leaders and funded by corporations and their foundations, to improve the skills of the workforce. Although US economic strength has been attributed in part to high levels of education, the workforce is lagging in the percentage of younger workers with college degrees, according to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development."
Correlation is not Causation (Score:2, Insightful)
And algebra II isn't already required? 0_o
Perhaps my kids will get a better schooling at Khan Academy afterall.
Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
Come on, people! We should all know this already. Just because "Algebra II" is a predictor of success, doesn't mean that it causes the success. It is much more likely that the smarter students who are (or at least were, before the depression) more likely to succeed are also more likely to take Algebra II. Making everyone take it is going to have about as much success as cargo cults did.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this catchphrase a restatement of the "Necessary vs Sufficient" principles? So Algebra might be Necessary (on a percentage scale) but it is not Sufficient. Also the percentage scale means you can succeed without it if a more difficult spread of counterbalancing factors shows up.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
Come on, people! We should all know this already. Just because "Algebra II" is a predictor of success, doesn't mean that it causes the success. It is much more likely that the smarter students who are (or at least were, before the depression) more likely to succeed are also more likely to take Algebra II. Making everyone take it is going to have about as much success as cargo cults did.
Require Algebra II - teachers will teach to the exam. Alas, this is what is happening. We don't want you to be able to think for yourself, just memorize a lot of stuff and hope it will get you through. Never mind once you understand concepts of Algebra it's really easy stuff.
Beware the candidate who says "I'm an Education Candidate, I want to revolutionize educations!" What they really mean is I'm going to pretend and just throw another mandated test at the schools.
How about we also require Prob & Stat? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe we should require Probability and Statistics, then, since people still think they can reverse cause and effect.
"Look! Successful people drive expensive cars! Tell your brother to go buy one, that ought to get his business back on its feet in no time!"
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:1, Insightful)
No, the GP is trying to sound very insightful by repeating the "correlation is not causation" line without even understanding the argument being made. He's trying to karma whore mostly.
Mixing up cause and effect (Score:5, Insightful)
Just algebra? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:2, Insightful)
Funny is that according to the Article, Algebra II is really one of (IMHO) useless parts of the curriculum (yes, I had it in High School)
ended up using some of it in Engineering School after all
Remind me to stay far, far away from anything you engineer.
No requirement will suffice... (Score:4, Insightful)
if all the schools do is rubber stamp the grades. Having worked as a tutor in college math lab when I was a piss poor student, there were people seeking help in the lab that can't handle basic fraction arithmetic.
Misleading Statements (Score:4, Insightful)
"Algebra II is the leading predictor of college and work success"
This is not precisely true. The most accurate statement is "The taking (and passing) of math levels beyond Algebra I (and maybe Geometry) is the leading predictor of college and work success." There's nothing about Algebra II as a subject that would innately give humans an edge in college or life success. It's going above and beyond the minimum requirements that's good for the student.
Moreover, a student going above and beyond the minimum may be more than a sign of innate mathematical competence. It may be a symptom of certain school, peer, or family pressures-- all of which combine in the "culture of education" which is a fantastic predictor of being accepted into 4-year institutions of higher education.
Re:ALL these should be required (Score:4, Insightful)
Calculus is the foundation of SO many different things. Almost every discipline from medicine to engineering to economics requires a foundation in calculus to understand.
Not every student needs to go into engineering or economics. A couple of my high school buddies went into auto body and they live FAR better than I do as a programmer (not to mention they were buying homes and starting families while I was still starving in college).
I'm much more concerned that schools are eliminating vocational electives than not requiring algebra II or calc. There is nothing wrong with being an HVAC tech.
That is thoroughly stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, let's look at this. First part of the quote:
Algebra II is the leading predictor of college and work success
Ok, that makes sense. Second part of the quote:
according to research that has launched a growing national movement to require it of graduates.
That is idiotic. The reason why Algebra II is a predictor of success is because it is one of the classes you opt-in and take if you're going to college. Only people with career plans in high school take Algebra II - of course it's a predictor of success. And conversely, if you make it mandatory it won't be an indicator anymore.
Reminds me of the joke about the guy who heard that most accidents happen within ten miles of his home, so he moved.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:2, Insightful)
And the uncomfortable elephant in the room is what do you do with the ones who can't specialize and can't apply? The ones who can barely pass rote memorization even with lowered standards? Pat them on the back and throw them at the nearest menial labor recruiter?
One of the central issues is the value of education is it is perceived by society/employers. On the one hand you have the 'push' of parents who all want their special snowflake to be a genius who graduates with a billion A+s and honors. On the other hand you have the 'pull' of employers who need to use education as a (not very accurate) measure of a person's fitness for work. Grade inflation drives down the value of diplomas and degrees, such that most employers see degrees as a minimum standard and diplomas as practically worthless. The simple and inexorable dynamic of the curve dictates that a sizable number of people should not receive diplomas, degrees, etc. But that is in opposition to the social pressure to 'improve graduation rates' etc. no matter the cost.
It's not a sustainable environment and it will eventually force radical new stratifications of education or social collapse. There are signs of the former, as many industries are now aggrieved with dozens to hundreds of certifications purveyed by as many certifying authorities, though these too are usually accomplished using the same 'teach the test' mentality and don't address the core problem. Some future paradigm will arise from them perhaps, as might be glimpsed in the Cisco certifications' labs that require more demonstrable applied skill than just answering a multiple choice question.
Re:Correlation is not Causation (Score:3, Insightful)
Every single male should be able to produce 3 kick ass dinners and a great breakfast. Will help said single male to become a not single male.
Re:Correlation is not Causation (Score:4, Insightful)
Although what we REALLY need a class on is "common sense" how to deal with money. Interest, balancing a 'checkbook'/banking account. Hell I'd settle for 'this is how you count back money.'
We had tracks based on ability, and you're describing the "general math" / "consumer math" track.
Lots of bitter feeling toward it... Generally speaking, the kids who were not going to make any money got all the education about money, while the kids who were going to make fat stacks of cash were carefully not educated about money but instead educated on stuff far beyond what they'd ever use on the job.
Set up for failure, by careful design.
Re:Above All Else (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm seriously interested in this idea. It's not that I don't agree with it but I'd wonder what application we could teach your average 16-17 year old in the usage of the quadratic equation?
Real world is filled with examples where you could apply Algebra to learn or estimate things. Most people react, rather than plan, but assume you make $20/hr, work 20 miles from home, gas is $4/gallon, house payment is $500/mo., etc. You could run kids through learning how much disposable income they'll have depending upon changes in any of the variables.
I had a government teacher, who was a lawyer, consider events in the days news in light of constitutional law, whether it was a States Rights or Federal item, etc. The news is full of things you can use to construct mathematical models from and have the student see what effects there are on the outcome when values change. I found Algebra and Trigonometry were a lot more interesting when I was trying to work out problems I could see a purpose behind, rather than the stock story problems in text books.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
> And the uncomfortable elephant in the room is what do you do with the ones who can't specialize and can't apply? The ones who can barely pass rote memorization even with lowered standards? Pat them on the back and throw them at the nearest menial labor recruiter?
Auto shop. Electric shop. Plumbing shop.
And for the record that doesn't mean they won't do well in life. The oil change in my boat was quoted at 80$ an hour and cost me a total of $700, since the mechanic had to move a battery, remove the alternator to get around at things.
Re:Just algebra? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not all societies have the notion that the purpose of education is to make you a useful cog.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
I hear the complaint "teachers will teach to the exam" all the time as an argument against standardized testing. Damn right they will. If this results in a poor education, it means they weren't good exams (e.g., the SAT). I had standardized exams at the end of my secondary education and we had to know the material damn well to do well on them.
"Teaching to the test" is a talking point, not a valid criticism. It presupposes the system will be implemented badly. Anything and everything will fail when the execution is poor.
Re:It's already an elective forcing it would only (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
Algebra II could be neither necessary nor sufficient, but still correlated with success. For instance, it could be that kids who are able and/or motivated to take Algebra II are likely to be successful.
Statistics and Financial Math (Score:4, Insightful)
For most people, it would be more useful to teach either statistics or financial math than calculus. We teach calculus because it's next in math or engineering education. But for ANY of the social sciences and several of the sciences statistics is more useful, and for life financial math is more useful.
Re:Alternative Suggestion (Score:4, Insightful)
I would like to see more emphasis on statistics in high school as well. Too many otherwise intelligent people don't understand things like random sampling, estimation, and error. We'd have a lot fewer of those, "how can only 1,000 people in a poll represent the opinions of 250 million adults" types of questions.
Sadly we still see those types of comments here at Slashdot.
BTW, there's very little in statistics that requires more than Algebra I.