Microsoft Counts Down To XP Death 766
mikejuk writes "Microsoft have just released an end-of-support countdown gadget that ticks off the days until XP is no longer supported — but it only runs under Vista or Windows 7! It focuses the mind on the fact that XP is being forcibly retired. It is a wake-up call to think hard about the unpleasant situation and consider the alternatives.So as you watch the count down to XP's death tick by think about the problems created by using software that actually belongs to someone else..."
Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:2, Insightful)
Doesn't *ALL* software "belong to someone else"? Even with FOSS software you depend on others to maintain it. If they stop, then you don't get updates. Now sure, you could theoretically go down to the local college and get a programming degree and learn to do it yourself--but how often does that REALLY happen? At least with MS, I know the software is going to be supported for several years, and not become adandonware because Jeremy got a new job and doesn't have time to update it anymore.
derp derp (Score:2, Insightful)
So as you watch the count down to XP's death tick by think about the problems created by using software that actually belongs to someone else..."
Yes, you're better off with opensource. It's much nicer knowing software you depend on may be abandoned without notice.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:5, Insightful)
So then buy from Redhat, or Ubuntu or whoever. Lots of folks will provide support for FOSS software. This is an old piece of FUD you are spewing here.
Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows XP is almost 10 years old. Find me a Linux distro that supports 10 year old versions, on the desktop.
No one cried foul when Windows 98 was EOLed, after only 8 years. That was because they liked XP. Microsoft has pushed back the EOL on Windows XP multiple times due to complaints, but it's time to move on.
If you dislike Vista and 7, use something a different operating system. Don't pretend Microsoft should support 10 year old software.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:4, Insightful)
But if you can't do it yourself, being dependent on RedHat or Ubuntu really isn't any better than being dependent on Microsoft other than philosophical differences which really don't enter into a business decision.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:5, Insightful)
We've seen people taking advantage of that option (for somewhat different reasons) just recently with OpenOffice, and for KDE3 there is the Trinity "fork".
Regarding "Ownership" though - I completely agree, just because MS stops support doesn't mean you can not use the software anymore. Similarly Ubuntu or Redhat will also eliminate support for older versions at some point.
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
What abuse of power? You can continue using XP for as long as you want; they don't magically make it stop working.
They are just saying they are not going to spend further time and money updating it. After almost 10 years this should have been expected seeing that most software isn't maintained nearly as long.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:5, Insightful)
Total cost of ownerships figures are debatable, what is not is that with closed source sofware you do not decide your own IT strategy.
You just "do as told"..
If you like that, be their guest...
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:4, Insightful)
With FOSS software when the programmers stop updating, new programmers fork the code and continue to update it.
This happened with X11, Open Office, etc etc. As a user of FOSS you can pretty much rest assured that the software you use will be supported so long as it fills a need or isn't replaced by something superior. It won't be abandoned even if you don't code, simply because other programmers can pick up the ball and keep going with the product.
Corporate software is much much more likely to become abandonware. Companies go out of business, their corporate goals change, a product may not be generating enough income, or they simply want to sell something new and shiny. Compare that to a product like Emacs. It was first released in the mid 70's and just had a new release last month. Odds are it'll still be around 30 years from now.
Re:kaaaching (Score:5, Insightful)
his is potentially good for the economy, because corporations across America will soon be forced to update the operating systems and IT departments may need to hire new techs for installations.
This is just another version of breaking windows (*sigh* just re-read this, the glass kind) being "good" for the economy because it caused people to buy windows and pay window repairmen. The "good" for the economy would be found instead in people switching to more efficient software, having less system downtime, and more security resulting in less spam/viruses wasting resources. But the simple forced switching causing companies to hire IT workers is not good for the economy.
Don't get me wrong, IT workers are important for a company, but you need to understand that all they do is lose a company money. Like HR, they usually don't produce product, they are on overhead. A good IT person can "save" a company huge sums of money by being efficient and lowering overhead and downtime company wide, but increasing IT budget is always a loss unless that increase is recouped by their ability to increase efficiencies elsewhere.
Re:kaaaching (Score:4, Insightful)
Good for the economy? Would you please look up "broken window fallacy"?
But in a nutshell, it's not of economic benefit to replace something that serves its purpose INSTEAD OF getting something new which serves a new purpose. The resources used "fixing the broken window" cannot then be used to, say, glaze a new window in a new store.
--PM
Re:Pull Your Head Out (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, XP is over 10 years old. Please inform me which popular Linux desktop distro has backwards support for 10 year old packages?
XP was still on sale last year when I bought my netbook (now wiped and running Ubuntu). The date it was first released is meaningless.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's very different, because there are multiple organisations that provide linux support and nothing to prevent new organisations springing up, while only one organisation provides windows support.
You wouldn't want to grow dependent on anything without there being a second source supplier who can step in if the first one fails. And similarly, multiple competing suppliers will result in better and cheaper service.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can upgrade that Ubuntu to the latest version for 0 GBP. People love to claim MS prices are in line, but they forget that they did not get a free win 7 disk in the mail.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:4, Insightful)
This isn't entirely about updates. Once Microsoft disables the activation servers, you won't be able to install it anymore. From the article:
Now, obviously the guy writing the article doesn't know when MS will turn off the activation servers.
It's one thing to say you won't get updates ... it's another thing to say that you don't get to keep running the software in a lab for testing or extended support. I can only imagine that point of sale or other things with XP might linger for quite some time. If XP actually phones home to see if it's still allowed to run, it's theoretically possible those could just stop working (though I have nothing to support this suggestion).
At least with FOSS, you're still allowed to install something old and busted -- if MS turns off the activation servers, you might not be able to do that. In this case, "owned by someone else" refers to the ability to disable new installs, and possible basically lock out existing installs.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:5, Insightful)
Debian, with in place upgrades there is no need for a standing version. Gentoo as well. This whole one version thing is a hold over from proprietary licensing.
If you want to go that route XP has not been supported that long, XP SP1 is for instance no longer supported, I do not believe SP2 is either.
Just because ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:2, Insightful)
Um...last time I checked there are around 73,357,145,315* companies in the world which will provide support for Micorosoft products. Fuck they have a legion* of people who have those wonderful pieces of paper from Microsoft that say they know how to do shit on Microsoft products.
*This is all obvious exaggeration. And while I of course understand the obvious difference between support and development, and how one could support and/or develop for Linux but only support Microsoft since their product is closed. But really, to say "only one organization provides windows support" is typical Anti-Microsoft FUD bullshit spewed by linux fanbois jerking off in their parent's basements to the latest version of the Linux kernel.
And don't get me wrong, Linux is fucking awesome. But we all need to stop pretending that we're suddenly going to destroy microsoft with our current 1% desktop market share. Windows...Linux...OSX...Unix...they ALL have their use, and all have their place, and anyone who tries to cry differently is fucking retarded.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you clear up the math for me?
150 / 12.75 = 11.76 GBP/year
0/5 = 0GBP/year.
To me the latter looks like a better deal.
The support packages you speak of are for things not included in an XP license, you know phone support.
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:4, Insightful)
Case in point - Mint. It's perhaps the best version of Ubuntu that's available from a first-time user's standpoint as it comes with all of the basic codecs and sound drivers installed. I found it to simply put, work. The transition to it is no different than any other operating system, and shouldn't be much harder than going from XP to Windows 7 would be.
It's climbed to the #2 spot at Distrowatch for exactly this reason. There's really no reason other than maybe gaming, to be forced to have to deal with moving to Windows 7 any more. But since the PC games are almost all just console clones these days and offer few actual differences and advantages over a console, you can survive without most games these days as well. (ie - just buy your games on your console and leave the PC to doing computer-related tasks.)
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:5, Insightful)
Um...last time I checked there are around 73,357,145,315* companies in the world which will provide support for Micorosoft products
Last time I checked, there was one. And you probably couldn't afford it.
The problem here seems to be a misunderstanding of what 'support' means. Support means being able to get someone on the phone (or your favourite communications technology) and say 'this is broken, fix it,' and have them fix it. If your hardware or software configuration triggers a bug in the Windows 7 kernel causing it to crash, how many companies can offer support? One: Microsoft. A few other organisations have access to the source code, but none have the legal right to ship patches.
Now, if you're running Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and you have a bug like this, then you can get Red Hat to fix it if you have a support contract, but there are also many thousands of other companies willing to do the same work. For Linux and *BSD kernels, there are even individual consultants that a small business can afford to hire who will track down and fix a bug that only affects you. If you're in the same situation with regard to a Microsoft product and you're not a Fortune 500 company or a major government, you're pretty much out of luck.
Re:oblig (Score:5, Insightful)
Luckily your box will continue to work fine; people seem confused by end of life. If you've never had problems and you don't need anything new (like patches to keep up with virus writers) then this end of life won't change your experience at all.
It's like selling you a car with a really long warranty that includes modifications due to changing laws - except the internet is a country that changes it's it's vehicle requirements all the time. When that warranty expires and they're not willing to keep working on your car (for free), doesn't mean you can't drive it around your own lot; leave it parked somewhere as a garage, or even drive on the road and try to avoid the police. It just means that the manufacturer is no longer providing a value added service; when they said they wouldn't.
Re:Pull Your Head Out (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Uh, unless you're a programmer... (Score:3, Insightful)
There are plenty of applications where there isn't even a network connection or multiple users or even changes to user software.
For them, loss of patches and updates isn't really a problem. What might be a problem is if it becomes impossible to activate the OS. I assume there are activation hacks out there, but if there aren't, then this event will cause them to become more widespread. Some people care more about the legal implications of this than others.
XP v2 (Score:2, Insightful)
M$ should get smart and release an XP v2 (aka another service pack) with a few select fixes (GPT support for one, removal of the licensed memory limit, etc). That way they can make their $200 license fee, and still make people happy.
I have a win7 machine that all built out with the latest and greatest. You know what? I don't use it, instead I sit down at my 4 year old windows XP machine and use it instead. Thats because with about 8x the hardware (high end CPU/SSD/graphics) it simply responds slower than XP on a couple year old dual core and a freeking spinning harddrive. Plus the XP machine works with a bunch of software that doesn't work on 7 (old eeprom burner, etc). Recently I put a couple of the hacks on the xp machine, and have 8G of memory and a 4TB esata disk attached. So its possible to get "updates" just not via the M$ route.