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China Security The Internet United States News Technology

Chinese Paper Warns Google May Pay Price For Hacking Claims 165

Posted by Soulskill from the i-bet-google-has-a-better-military-than-china dept.
suraj.sun writes with this excerpt from a Reuters report: "Google has become a 'political tool' vilifying the Chinese government, an official Beijing newspaper said on Monday, warning that the US internet giant's statements about hacking attacks traced to China could hurt its business. The tough warning appeared in the overseas edition of the People's Daily, the leading newspaper of China's ruling Communist Party, indicating that political tensions between the United States and China over Internet security could linger. Last week, Google said it had broken up an effort to steal the passwords of hundreds of Google email account holders, including US government officials, Chinese human rights advocates and journalists. It said the attacks appeared to come from China."
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Chinese Paper Warns Google May Pay Price For Hacking Claims More

Chinese Paper Warns Google May Pay Price For Hacking Claims

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  • Somehow I picture the executives at Google, and US State Department officials having a good laugh over this one.

    Nobody outside of China believes the type of propaganda crap spewed by Chinese newspapers.

    • Re:Oh puh-leeze (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Hatta ( 162192 ) on Monday June 06, 2011 @04:24PM (#36355184) Journal

      They don't care if anyone outside China believes it. They are building pretext to block Google entirely.

      • I'm sure Bing will be more than happy to censor any results they like.

      • Not the blocking, they can do that easily. The problem is that China will discover if they go all block happy and shut down external communications services, it'll hurt business. Blocking Google wouldn't hurt Google that much. However it would hurt China's ability to do business with the world.

        • Re:Good luck with that (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Hatta ( 162192 ) on Monday June 06, 2011 @05:35PM (#36355978) Journal

          They won't block all external communications services. Just the ones that won't filter and spy as the Chinese government wants.

          • They won't block all external communications services. Just the ones that won't filter and spy as the Chinese government wants.

            True, but at this point, Google is one of those services that won't kowtow and that China also happens to need. That won't be the case forever, I assume, but for now blocking Google (regardless of Google's stance on censorship and spying) would cause far more damage to China's business and scientific sectors. Google would survive and thrive if China vanished from the face of the Earth tomorrow morning.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Hatta ( 162192 )

              Why does China need Google? Is there anything Google does that Baidu can't, or won't be able to with a little motivation?

              Google would thrive if China disappeared, sure. But if Google were forced out of China, to be replaced by Bing (for exampley), that would put them at a competitive disadvantage, even outside of China.

              • Why does China need Google? Is there anything Google does that Baidu can't, or won't be able to with a little motivation?

                Google would thrive if China disappeared, sure. But if Google were forced out of China, to be replaced by Bing (for exampley), that would put them at a competitive disadvantage, even outside of China.

                Well, this [wired.com], for example. And I did say, "won't be the case forever." More to the point, so far as the Chinese citizenry is concerned, is the fact that Google isn't a Chinese operation, and indexes knowledge that Baidu would never be permitted to make available. Google, thanks to Sergey Brin's feelings on the matter, isn't likely to permit itself to be used to implicate Chinese citizens for crimes against the State. That attitude is precisely what this squabble is all about, and is why Bing, for example, isn

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        This is an internal to China propaganda tactic to get tens of thousands of Chinese to hack google penalty free. A pre-meditated intimidation tactic not only targeted at google but also targeted at any other company that might report criminal hacking by the Government of China.

        China will make some noises about pursuing the hackers in China targeted foreign corporations, mean while they will secretly supply the script kiddie tools to do so.

        China will continue to leverage the public, private and individua

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by jawahar ( 541989 )

        US visa system/outsourcing should be linked to caste system in India and human rights in China

    • Half of China probably doesn't believe it's own propaganda.

      • Half of China probably doesn't believe it's own propaganda.

        The guy in 1984 didn't believe the propaganda either, but he jumped up and down yelling 'death to Eastasia' with the rest of them.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Half of China probably doesn't believe it's own propaganda.

        I don't believe it for a second. Look how many Americans buy the propaganda fed to them by the government and the media. "This is the greatest country in the world," most Americans will tell you, without taking a second to challenge that notion objectively. You can feed a lot of propaganda to your people in the guise of patriotism.

        • Well, first, I see and hear a whole variety of people calling BS on nearly everything the government releases. From FoxNews to MSNBC to the Wall Street Journal to /. to New York Times- everyone is skeptical of everything the gov says. Now many people with a die-hard allegiance to whatever view they have will eat up whatever shiite you shovel them.

          And 2nd, what is a better country than the US, and what is your criteria? Keep in mind with such an overarching statement you cannot pick just one criteria (say

          • There certainly is a popular feeling of distrust towards everything the government does here in the US; hell, that's American as apple pie.

            The problem is, is that much of the information that gets disseminated to us by private entities like the ones you mentioned originates from US government sources. Especially so if that information is related to foreign affairs. These private entities, be it Fox News or MSNBC, are wholly dependant on the government for information on these topics. They can certainly add

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mjwx ( 966435 )

          Half of China probably doesn't believe it's own propaganda.

          I don't believe it for a second. Look how many Americans buy the propaganda fed to them by the government and the media. "This is the greatest country in the world," most Americans will tell you, without taking a second to challenge that notion objectively. You can feed a lot of propaganda to your people in the guise of patriotism.

          Likely more then half of China really doesn't give a shit.

          Who's Google and what does the US have to do with a Chinese farmers life? From the farmers perspective. They tend to have less time to think and worry about this kind of thing, they've got more important things to discuss with their peers like rain, harvests or the mating habits of the local girls.

          I highly doubt that propaganda is widely believed anywhere, especially in China as Chinese people are naturally cynical (it's a cultural thing). The

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Evtim ( 1022085 )

          Believe it. It's probably more than half anyway. When my country was communist only the people who profited (10-15% max) from the system were "believing" in it. The rest of us learned (from our parents) on a very tender age (about 7) that the state is our enemy and if you can screw the state and the Party you do it (but careful not to end up in a Gulag-style camp).

          When the gap between words and deeds is so wide as it is in communist regimes AND the people are poor the ideology defeats itself. That's why I n

    • I don't think the faceless ones at Google, or the State Department are laughing, well, maybe a small grin. But lets look at the extremes that the middle kingdom can do to the U.S. Maybe stop exporting of manufactured goods? Oh dear, what would our quiet factories ever do? How about China no longer "investing" in the U.S.? It's looking like its China that has become the Paper Tiger,(and no apologies to the chairman mao). Of course, I don't know what all the ramifications are of a U.S. economy without he

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by chaboud ( 231590 )

      I have family outside of China who believe this crap.

      Of course, they're complete idiots, so take from that what you will...

    • What I can't understand is that (I may be wrong), Google said it came from "China", physically. They did NOT say it came from the "Chinese Government". That may be the implication, but that's not what they said. For instance, the Sony hack may have come from the "United States", physically, but that is not the same as saying that Sony was hacked by the "United States Government". This misinformation is just flamebait.

  • Is China going to war against Google? Should I enlist in Google's Cyber Army??

    • Enlist or you will be drafted. Probably as fodder.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Dahamma ( 304068 )

      Yes, and the cyber war will be fought via World of Warcraft.

      Now we know the real reason China has been forcing prisoners in its labor camps to gold farm...

      • No, No....now we know why we put that supercarrier battlegroup in the pacific. Go navy. Thanks again. float it over here......die.

  • Chinese govt just implicated itself (Score:5, Insightful)

    by losttoy ( 558557 ) on Monday June 06, 2011 @04:26PM (#36355220)
    Read Google's blog post here:
    http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/ensuring-your-information-is-safe.html [blogspot.com]

    Nowhere do they point fingers at the Chinese government. They merely pointed out source of the attack was based in a certain Chinese city. It is the Chinese who interpreted that as pointing at the Chinese govt. Why would the Chinese do that unless they are aware of the attack being carried out by their army/govt. They could've just said they will investigate further the origin and trace the attackers. No, instead they went into this defensive spin. Shows the Chinese govt is guilty (al though Google didn't accuse them).

    #Lame #Fail.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hey! ( 33014 )

      Why would the Chinese do that unless they are aware of the attack being carried out by their army/govt.

      Well, I'll take a shot at this: Because they are paranoid about keeping up appearances. Remember the little girl who wasn't telegenic enough to sing at the Olympics ceremonies? Paranoia is by definition irrational. Reasonable concern over one's image and sensible steps to protect one's reputation don't count as paranoia.

      I'm not saying the government isn't behind what happened. In fact, in a crony-capitalist government ruled by political expediency rather than law, there is a lot of willful turning of bli

      • there is a lot of willful turning of blind eyes

        Congrats on being chosen for the MMOTD*!

        *Mixed Metaphor Of The Day ;)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hey! ( 33014 )

          I count only one metaphor, and one pleonasm. I would say a "redundant pleonasm" were this not such an irony-deficient world.

          • I count only one metaphor, and one pleonasm. I would say a "redundant pleonasm" were this not such an irony-deficient world.

            Congrats on being chosen for the MOWOTD*

            pleonasm [wikimedia.org]

            Often, pleonasm is understood to mean a word or phrase which is useless, clichéd, or repetitive, but a pleonasm can also be simply an unremarkable use of idiom.

            * Most Obtuse Word of the Day

          • -1 obfuscation

      • I agree. More than the Chinese government pointing the finger, U.S. news media reported the attacks as coming from the Chinese government. Read past the headlines and the story was that Google named the city, and that is the location of a military school. Americans tend to forget that in China, and most of the world, "government" and "military" are two vastly different entities. The Chinese government is pro-business, and the military hate America. The people do not want this kind of hostility.

      • In fact, in a crony-capitalist government ruled by political expediency rather than law, there is a lot of willful turning of blind eyes to dodgy but politically or personally useful things.

        I am an American, sir, and you will cease describing my country in such a demeaning way.

        Took me a couple of reads to figure out who you were talking about.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Nope, it was the entire western media and US government that implicated the Chinese government. That sort of thing happens all the time to the US (e.g. Struxnet) but the policy is to neither confirm not deny.

      The Chinese have a point here. The US started property booms in South Korea and Indonesia which went bad in the 90s, and China decided it would prevent that from ever happening again my managing the US. They kept the Dollar/Yuan exchange rate favourable and lent huge sums of money to the US, so just lik

    • Actually, this is partly because of the way their system works. There is a two stage process going on here. The first part is that no company in China would make such a statement unless they were instructed to do so by the government. Second, since if such an attack against a Chinese company was coming from a city in a foreign country, China would assume it was government sponsored, they assume that Google and other foreign groups are making a veiled statement that this attack is coming from the Chinese gov

  • It's the United States' Internet - deroute .cn (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TwineLogic ( 1679802 ) on Monday June 06, 2011 @04:32PM (#36355292)
    We built it, and among its many purposes were to further the freedoms of the United States of America.

    To what ends are China using the Internet we built? Attacking the email accounts of our senior government officials? Sabotaging the power grid? Probing the network of Lockheed Martin?

    How do Chinese packets get to the US, and why should they continue to reach us? It is time -- past time -- that the US cut off all Internet routing from China, and establishes treaties with China's neighbors prohibiting them from routing Chinese packets to the US.
    • Agreed. If they don't want an open internet they can create their own network. Nobody is stopping them from having ChinaNET.

    • Re:It's the United States' Internet - deroute .cn (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Bloodwine77 ( 913355 ) on Monday June 06, 2011 @05:26PM (#36355896)

      I would never punish the people of China for the actions of their government.

      If we cut them off from the internet, we only hurt the regular Chinese civilian who will find themselves cut off from outside information and opposing points of view.

      • If we don't cut them off, they're on a path to stealing our military secrets and shutting down our power plants. That would kill people. Opposing points of view are nice and all, but I'd like to not die at the remote commands of small men.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by nastro ( 32421 )

          Since when are power plant master controls accessible over the internet? Oops! I mean to click "PAY BILL!" Sorry eastern seaboard!

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Please. If you want to be upset with someone, be upset with the idiot who PUT those sensitive networks onto the internet, in direct violation of good network design practices, and likely military security guidelines.

        • Dude, it is easier to attract a bird with honey than with vinegar. There are signs of change in China, and /engagement/ is the way to bring this about. You do not want to cultivate and us versus them situation. That is how wars start.

          Have you ever met an arrogant deluded control freak? How do you think wise people handle such a situation? Some goes for China.

        • Wow you could take over for Glen Beck with that level of fearmongering.

          The Internet isn't secure. So -- rather than trying to blacklist attackers -- you build a whitelisted network you know all hosts are safe on. That is, if the global network is not secure enough for your system demands, use something else. Shutting down the .cn TLD or IP range is wholly empty. You're still allowing strangers on the network and your systems are still vulnerable. Fix the problem, not the symptom.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yeah, Japan? It's American calling, you busy? Oh well, this will only take a moment. You know that emerging superpower next to you?

      Yeah, that one. I need you to stop routing their internet traffic.

      No, I'm not kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Right.

      Jay baby, don't get me wrong. That whole "reconciling lifetimes of animosity and racial distrust"? I get that. We kinda have the same thing going between us and France. But you know. France! Hahah.

      Seriously though, ina-Chay needs to get erouted-Day. And it's going to

    • China is not using the Internet you built, everyone is using an Internet where both the US and China are present. To remove that is the shortest path to an open war as Internet is the best way for each country to understand each other and communicate with each other. There is still the problem of language, which means most Chinese netizens never go to foreign websites anyway, but most of the communications between foreigners and Chinese are on-line nowadays.

      Do you really want to stop all economic trade ? Al

    • How difficult would it be to isolate a rogue country from the Internet ? Is it as difficult or harder than to enforce a trade embargo or an arms sanction -- both of which are legitimate tools in global diplomacy. Has there been any thought on these line ?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      We built it, and among its many purposes were to further the freedoms of the United States of America.

      yeah, cuz kicking anyone you dont like off the internet will show how free your society really is

      Oh, and the brits should take back HTML from the Americans too. Because taking your ball and going home always works.

    • You *started* to build it, yes. That's not the same as having built all of it, just the bit of it that's on US grounds. Not all 13 DNS root servers are in the US, either. If you "deroute" .cn, the only thing you'll accomplish is that you won't be able to reach .cn; not necessarily even the other way round, let alone the link between the rest of the world and .cn.

      If ICANN, North-American based though it is, would suddenly and unilaterally retract all IP blocks assigned to China there would be serious backlas

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      We built it

      You wish. The web was invented by an Englishman (Sir Tim Berners-Lee), and much of the technology and infrastructure was built by other countries.

      Plus de-routing China would fuck up your own economy because half the stuff you buy comes from China and the net is a vital part of that supply chain.

      Even if you did re-route China no-one else would so you would still be vulnerable to attack. They would just use servers in another country to launch attacks from.

  • Chinese paper? (Score:3)

    by gfreeman ( 456642 ) on Monday June 06, 2011 @04:34PM (#36355320)

    Google scissors cuts Chinese paper. Ha.

  • How big of a loss will a Google blacklist in china as that may high on list of what Google stands to lose over this.
    • I don't think that's their main concern. China has already been beating their heads over this and other things lately. They can't keep acquiescing forever. Hell, if I were on the board I'd be worried about China nationalizing all of their holdings. What's stopping them? They've been daring the West to go to war for 30 years.

      • The reason is that they don't know how. At this point they can't even feed themselves, and that's relatively straightforward compared with building and maintaining their own national intranet. I'm sure there are plenty of folks in China that are capable of doing it, I just don't think they know how to actually undertake something of that magnitude in the current climate over there.

        • China has some very serious external dependencies. Iron, coal (the high-grade stuff needed for coking steel, they have plenty of sulfur-laden crap-coal domestically), OIL, export markets for cash (remember, the yuan is not a full participant in international financial systems; they do their external trade mostly in dollars, somewhat in Euros).

          The iron and coal comes largely from Australia. Look at recent power politics being played between Australia and China over Chinese attempts to buy majority ownershi

          • China's also woefully primitive industrially. It's not just resources they lack, it's knowledge.

            I can't speak for every industry over there, but I've met and trained some industry workers here in the states that were going to be working in a brand new plants, and their methods were easily 20 years past their prime -- and this was with the full backing of a US multinational building the plant. Inefficient, poor quality, terribly limited in the types of things they could make.

            Basically, the crappy 50s-era p

  • With the Great Firewall, I have a hard time believing that an attack originating from a Chinese IP was not government backed.

    • With the Great Firewall, I have a hard time believing that an attack originating from a Chinese IP was not government backed.

      Depends. If you think that the Chinese government is interested in playing nice with the rest of the world, and would concern themselves over an American company (that they already dislike) being attacked by some Chinese third-party and would therefore block said attack ... well.

      • +1 Insightful.

        Having the attack originate from the Chinese government itself is not quite the same as willfully turning a blind eye to pro-China activists or for-profit criminals. However, that behavior... knowingly harboring hostiles and giving them a free pass to attack outside entities... landed the Taliban a lot of trouble. We, the US, certainly aren't going to lob cruise missiles into Beijing just because someone there is trying to penetrate Google, but neither does either Google or the US have any d

        • Host countries do have at least some responsibility for the activity of those it hosts.

          Yes, and if those activities are illegal under the laws of said host country, and yet enforcement of those laws is, shall we say, selective, there is legitimate cause for complaint.

  • Sep Blatters style has fans in china too.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fnj ( 64210 )

      Jeeze; overreaction much? Google merely reported in what city of what part of the world the attack appeared to originate. How does that bear on what google does or doesn't think of the Chinese government?

      Oh, and some of the rest of us DO care about both government and mega corporations, because both of them have vast potential to harm our lives.

  • I have to wonder, sometimes, if China is building up to closing off their internets to the outside world entirely, or getting the rest of the 'internet community' to do it for them, by acting so irrationally?

    • I have to wonder, sometimes, if China is building up to closing off their internets to the outside world entirely, or getting the rest of the 'internet community' to do it for them, by acting so irrationally?

      They can't do that and maintain the economic relationships that are currently so important to them. The Great Firewall is, when you get right down to it, an attempt to have their cake and eat it too ... they want to allow the international traffic that they consider beneficial, and block everything else.

      In practice, that's not so easy to do.

  • ...we shouldn't let them play at all.

    Can we just build a second "Great Firewall" on our side from theirs and not let them OUT? I know a lot of our firms want badly to go there and make money, but the rest of the Internet is at risk from their crap, all of us.

  • at least where i live, the consumer electronics market has recently been flooded with cheap Chinese android phones and tablets. Even major telcos have started rebranding these things - taiwanese and korean household names just can't compete at such margins.

    Were the Chinese govt to issue a blanket ban on all things Googly, efforts might be directed towards other projects. A windows8 clone could be on the cards. China has a MIPS cpu with x86 emu. Partner that with LinuxUnifiedKernel and a dash of moonlight an

  • It's hard to disagree - Google is indeed anti-China. Vilifying the Chinese government is either corporate policy, or the individual policy of Google employees. Either way, it's difficult to tell which is which, and Google resources are used either way.

    Maybe you heard about the "Jasmine" revolution in China. What a joke. The only people for it...didn't live in China. You wouldn't know that from reading Google sources. The Chinese people are quite good at spotting media lies, having grown up on a stea

    • Vilifying the Chinese government is either corporate policy, or the individual policy of Google employees

      Maybe the Chinese government deserves to be vilified? Maybe the Chinese government really is guilty of atrocities heaped upon atrocities?

  • Dick Nixon said that, in terms of geopolitics, his secret missions to open relations with China was the best thing he ever did for America and for the world. Turns out that DIck Nixon actually was, A DICK.

    FUCK CHINA.

    Stop buying its dangerous, substandard products and stop voting for anyone who recommends doing business with it.

    Once again, FUCK CHINA. Whether you're from the U.S., Taiwan, Japan, Germany or the Republic of Mega Banana, FUCK CHINA.

  • We will punish Google's claims of hacking with MORE HACKING!

  • Despite the similarities, that is not a Dr.Who OR Battlestar Balactica reference. You have to actually be a tad more nerdy than even that to get it.

  • ...but you will pay for your insolence.

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