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China Security The Internet United States

China Removes Cyberwar Video, Denies Everything 179

Posted by Soulskill
from the it-was-the-one-armed-man dept.
jjp9999 writes "Anyone looking for the video clip showing the Chinese regime launching cyberattacks using script kiddie tactics was greeted with a message stating 'Error Page — This page does not exist anymore,' on the state-run TV website. The propaganda video, still available on YouTube, included a clip showing an unseen user launching a cyberattack against an Alabama-based website of the Falun Gong meditation practice. China's Defense Minister told the Washington Post via e-mail that the video was 'pure action of the producer,' adding that the 'Chinese military has never implemented any form of cyber attacks.' The statement is the common line given by the regime after they're tacked with launching a global cyberattack — including after GhostNet, Operation Aurora, Operation Night Dragon, and Operation Shady Rat were revealed."
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China Removes Cyberwar Video, Denies Everything

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  • by JonySuede (1908576) on Friday August 26, 2011 @10:42AM (#37219658) Journal

    Chinese military has never implemented any form of cyber attacks

    But the Chinese equivalent of the NSA sure did....

    • by Coren22 (1625475)

      How can you say such things, China would never do something so outright illegal as to attack companies in the US. /sarcasm

      • by GooberToo (74388)

        A cultural element of both China and Japan is that nothing is really bad, wrong, or immoral, unless you get publicly caught. That's not to say everyone embraces such ideology but it is pervasive in their cultures.

        • by sjames (1099)

          As opposed to American corporate culture that says it's not even bad if you get publicly caught as long as you have enough political clout to make it go away (see Wall Street).

          • by GooberToo (74388)

            American culture is not Wall Street culture. There most definitely is a massive divide there. Which really means, power has its perks. Hardly surprising. But not really topical either.

            • by sjames (1099)

              It's not just Wall Street, it's pretty much any large corporation and large swaths of our government.

              It doesn't pervade the rest of our culture so much, but it's worth keeping in mind one's own faults when criticizing others'

              • by GooberToo (74388)

                I did. Re-read my original statement. The door clearly swung both ways and I made sure it wasn't an overly broad statement. Period.

            • by ChatHuant (801522)

              American culture is not Wall Street culture. There most definitely is a massive divide there

              I'm afraid that's not really true, much as I'd like it to be. The proof is in the voting patterns: so many candidates get elected and reelected, even when they're known to be corrupt and worse, and even when they break all civilized boundaries in their campaigns. That tells me "Main Street culture" really doesn't much care about honesty, truth, justice or fair play. Sad, indeed.

  • by dyingtolive (1393037) <brad.arnett@NosPam.notforhire.org> on Friday August 26, 2011 @10:42AM (#37219664)
    Just man up and own it. For fuck's sake, it's just getting painful.
    • by thelexx (237096) on Friday August 26, 2011 @10:56AM (#37219848)

      Nearly every word that comes out of Chinese officials' mouths is painful to listen to. If it served their purposes they would claim the sky is red, forbid anyone from discussing it, jail/torture/disappear those who dared to still say it was blue, and denounce other countries for meddling in their internal affairs by stating the obvious. And do it with a straight face and a clear conscience. If that government not fucking evil, I don't know what is and I'm sick of hearing their blatant bullshit and absolutist statements. They are simply a slightly more moderate and much larger version of North Korea, and without the cult of personality.

      To be clear, I think the Chinese culture is rich and ancient, and that the common, thinking people there feel much the same when they witness their own government's bullshit. It's their political structure and those who populate it that need to die in a fucking fire.

      • by The Grim Reefer2 (1195989) on Friday August 26, 2011 @11:07AM (#37219954)

        To be clear, I think the Chinese culture is rich and ancient, and that the common, thinking people there feel much the same when they witness their own government's bullshit. It's their political structure and those who populate it that need to die in a fucking fire.

        I believe that most of that statement is probably true for the majority of people in the world. I live in the US and know that I certainly feel that way about our gov't. Except for the ancient culture part anyhow.

        I know many people from Iran, Cuba, Russia, China, etc. This seems to be a common feeling among most of the people that we are told are evil.

        • by Kreigaffe (765218) on Friday August 26, 2011 @12:11PM (#37220692)

          Honestly there really isn't any comparing the US and Chinese government.
          I make no excuses for the US gov't, but the US gov't is the obnoxious, occasionally destructive frat boy to the Chinese gov't's sociopathic homicidal con-man.

          Worst part is that kind of government is a part of chinese culture, too. that's sort of how they've run the show for most of their history. it's fucking weird.

          • True, but when I talk to the normal non-government person from China they don't feel the people of the US are out to get them or vice-verse. It truly amazes me how much of a divide there is between the people and the people who are supposed represent them.

          • by HalAtWork (926717)
            So we should attack our problems now instead of letting them grow. Just because they're not as bad doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on them.
          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward

            You hit upon something I'm still pondering, which is the close connection of this absurd 'deny everything' policy of the Chinese government and the culture. I know plenty of Chinese nationals(I work with them remotely every day) and on an individual and personal level, their actions mirror mine: no tolerance for bullshit, responsibility, integrity and genuine goodwill for other people. I love and respect each one of them. But somehow their minds almost categorically do mental back flips when things become a

            • I know it's baffled me for years. I spoke about it to some Iranians I know when Ahmadinejad was at Columbia. They thought he was a buffoon and virtually everything he said went against how they and there fellow countrymen felt. None of them thought of the American people as some kind of great evil, nor knew anybody who did. Yet the gov't of Iran has made their feelings well known. Don't get me wrong, the door swings both ways. I think the US actions regarding the Shah were appalling. And the US gov't has al

            • by Kreigaffe (765218)

              Same experience here. I've worked with / trained Chinese workers, I've had Chinese professors, I've known Chinese students. Good people. I can't say the same for most of the South Americans I've met, even -- that is, the Colombians and Brasilians I've met were, unfortunately, pretty good examples of how those countries wound up with the sorts of governments they have had and have currently.. but the Chinese folks just really.. I don't know. You're right. I can't reconcile the Chinese people I've met

          • by sjames (1099)

            The Chinese government sins bigger, but I'm not so sure there's no comparability. In the U.S. we have people in the in group getting a free pass on truly gigantic crimes while prosecutors resist the release of death row inmates after DNA testing proves their innocence. The official response to people not being able to afford health insurance is to make it illegal to not have health insurance. Increasingly, our police departments resemble paramilitary operations and operate as if they are above the law (and

          • Great name for a band: "Sociopathic homicidal frat boys" :D

        • by joggle (594025) on Friday August 26, 2011 @01:17PM (#37221386) Homepage Journal

          There's no comparison between the US and Chinese governments. Heck, I know a girl whose family is well connected politically in China and even she doesn't want to deal with the Chinese government. It's just far too corrupt and everyone only cares about themselves. The government is completely opaque and it's ridiculously easy to embezzle public money due to the lack of accountability and openness. And that's at the national level, at the local level it's even worse, especially in the countryside.

          Just for one specific example, a drunk guy ran over and killed a couple of women late at night. When the police showed up, he said he was the mayor's son so what were they going to do about it. Fortunately, someone got it on video and it caused the people to protest and force him to go to jail (and for his father to apologize). But that guy's attitude is pervasive in the Chinese government's upper levels, with political power tending to pass from one generation to the next and having the ability to do almost anything and get away with it.

          • Here's another: (really bad HTML layout, but hey). Here's [comcast.net] The gist of the story [latitude38.com].

            In summary: It was around 9PM, and dark on Clear Lake in California. Bismarck Dinius and some friends were sitting on a sailboat, drifting with its running lights on. An off-duty deputy sheriff, Russell Perdock, admits to driving his 24 foot Baja 24 at 40 MPH in the dark (others say it was faster), and ran over the sailboat killing one of the people on board the sailboat.

            The local DA charged Dinius with manslaughter, as he h

      • This is a country that has a history of pointing at a deer and call it a horse [wikimedia.org], or more recently calling Minnie Mouse a "cat with large ears." [japanprobe.com] So why is this a surprise?

      • by drolli (522659)

        Yes. i recommend that the Chinese government takes some PR consultants.

        Other governments manage to whitewash their dirty laundry much better.

      • What's worse is that even though communism has long been a boogeyman to America, Dick Nixon made it ok for us to deal with red China.

        FUCK CHINA. They are our enemies. We're just sitting here letting them take us apart bite by bite. It's time for us to shut them out. We should close our ports to their ships, deport their people and refuse to pay their bills. What are they going to do? They're already at war with us.

        Force them to step it up. We still have plenty of ICBMs we can launch that aren't yet i

      • by gl4ss (559668)

        fucked up corrupt government that spends half of it's time inventing fantasies for masses is an ancient way of doing chinese politics, they're probably quite used to it.

        anyhow, in this case - I think the video was fake to begin with, propaganda shit never meant to be seen outside china as it's like from a bad movie.

    • That's not how the game of hegemony is played though. We say one thing, they say another and point out that we do it to, we say what exactly? That we are the good guys so it's okay when we do it? That we promise we only do it to rogue nations?

      When we refuse to bow down to any higher authority, we take the risk that someone else is going to do mean things to us, and we'll need to either declare war on them, do mean things back, or find other ways to try to convince them not to.
      • I don't remember seeing a propaganda video that the US released showing a script kiddie application they were using to hack a Chinese university.

        I just wish I could have been a part of the days when your intentions were plainly written down on paper, signed, and then sent to the entity in question.
    • by The Moof (859402)
      Manning up to this would be a bad idea. It's one thing that we all know it's happening, it's another thing for a country to openly admit they're attacking another. Sort of like how we all assume the CIA has its hands in some international doings, but the US government would never openly admit it while its happening.
      • There's still a difference between noticing the cookie jar being lighter from one day to the next and actually having a video of someone with their hand inside it.
        • by The Moof (859402)
          Based on the comments from that article, it sounded like the video itself was also pretty suspicious (which the Chinese are hiding behind). Either way, the mantra has always been deny, deny, deny.
      • by Coren22 (1625475)

        Out of curiosity (as I wasn't born yet) did the US man up to Iran Contra? Or the attempts to overthrow South American nations?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair [wikipedia.org]

        It looks like Reagan actually came out and admitted at least part of it, and there is some question as to whether he knew more than he admitted.

        • by vbraga (228124)

          At least for the Brazilian coup there are declassified information showing US support and possible involvement if things did not end up well.

          Declassified transcripts of communications between Lincoln Gordon and the US government show that, predicting an all-out civil war, Johnson authorized logistical materials to be in place to support the coup-side of the rebellion. These included ammunition, motor oil, gasoline, aviation gasoline and other materials to help in a potential civil war in US Navy tankers sailing from Aruba. About 110 tons of ammunition and CS gas were made ready in New Jersey for a potential airlift to Viracopos Airport in Campinas. Potential support was also made available in the form of an "aircraft carrier (USS Forrestal) and two guided missile destroyers (expected arrive in area by April 10), (and) four destroyers", which sailed to Brazil under the guise of a military exercise.

          Link [wikipedia.org]

        • by The Moof (859402)
          If they did (I believe they did, was before my time as well), it was long after it ended. I don't think they would've said anything about doing it while it was happening.
    • by Jawnn (445279)

      Just man up and own it. For fuck's sake, it's just getting painful.

      Prepare for more... discomfort. I don't understand it, but there is something that is lost in translation that makes the laughably ridiculous a reasonable thing to say for the Chinese. Surely they don't expect anyone to really believe such childish denials, after having been caught red-handed, for the umpteenth time, committing some nefarious act. So why do they do it?

  • The General was quoted as: "These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along."

  • This is amusing, but not particularly scary. Everyone expects this kind of behavior and lies out of the Chinese government, and acts accordingly. It's never the covert actions of our enemies that scare me *nearly* as much as the covert actions of my own government. After all, you can build walls to protect against an *outside* threat.

  • by elsurexiste (1758620) on Friday August 26, 2011 @10:48AM (#37219744) Journal

    We've always been at war with Eastasia.

  • by malraid (592373) on Friday August 26, 2011 @10:51AM (#37219774)

    Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where they go to China, and in Tiananmen Square they have a plaque that says "On This Site in 1989, Nothing Happened"

  • China's Defense Minister told the Washington Post via e-mail that the video was 'pure action of the producer,' adding that the 'Chinese military has never implemented any form of cyber attacks.'

    Of course, what they don't tell you is that there are cyber units/departments in other ministries of the government. So they could be telling the complete truth when they say that the Chinese military has never implemented cyber attacks. Notice that they never said the Chinese GOVERNMENT has never implemented cyber attacks.

  • by NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) on Friday August 26, 2011 @11:15AM (#37220036)
    "There was no cover-up."
    "There is definitive proof that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction."
    "We do not torture."
    "They started it."
    Bald-faced lies, the lingua franca of government.
    • by antdude (79039)

      Humans lie all the time. :(

    • "I am not a crook"
    • by Loundry (4143)

      Bald-faced lies, the lingua franca of government.

      Indeed. Quite opposed to corporations, trade unions, churches, scientists, public interest groups, police departments, community organizers, universities, charities, and individuals, all of which advance and defend their interests with 100% honesty and lamb-like innocence.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Pharmboy (216950)

        In other words, where there is power, there are lies.

        • by ultranova (717540)

          In other words, where there is power, there are lies.

          The weak lie too. In fact even animals do (such as give warning sounds when there's no danger to scare other pack members away from food). Then there are pitcher plants, which lure insects to their doom by emitting a good (for an insect) smell. And viruses spread by fooling ribosomes to mistake viral RNA for that of the cell.

          Where there is life, there are lies.

      • I'm going to try to log into your account with the password "trustno1". You have 30 seconds to change your password.

    • by brit74 (831798)
      I'm sorry, China. I shouldn't have expected anything better than lies from any government. I am no longer outraged. You may continue operating as usual, but now you don't have to worry about our disapproval. Thank you, NicknamesAreStupid, for normalizing lies and deceit. I predict a rosey future for humanity when nobody even complains about government lies. And, I predict a wonderful existence for governments when they can lie without ever being held accountable, not even having to face social disappr
      • by Hatta (162192)

        The point is not that you shouldn't be upset by these revelations. The point is that you should already be outraged. If you were in any way surprised by these actions you are terribly naive.

  • by MaWeiTao (908546) on Friday August 26, 2011 @11:23AM (#37220110)

    There was an sometimes amusing, usually frustrating, that seems to be somewhat unique to Chinese politicians. They'll publicly make baldfaced lies. There will be overwhelming evidence and they'll still blatantly deny it. Our politicians lie like hell, but they're more tactful about it. Once the secret is out they'll do a little tap dance to avoid actually addressing the issue. But not there, they'll just keep lying about it until everyone forgets about it, they're forced to resign or they end up in jail.

    So it's not surprising in the least that they're denying this video. And the best part is that they'll deny these attacks and then gloat about it all behind our backs.

    • by TheSpoom (715771)

      The difference is that in China, if you dare to actually say that they're lying, you're liable to get reeducated [wikipedia.org], house-arrested, arrested, or just plain old shot.

  • The idea of "Lying", or more closely, "Denying", is more like they are purposely showing you your (or our) inability to do anything about what they just did right back in your face. I think it's more about "Screw you, scum. What can you do about it?" than "Who, me?" Which is pretty much what they do to their people all the time. "Might is right. Peasants suck. Go, Communism! Have a nice day." And they think they are making themselves "happier".
  • Think they'll send a DMCA take-down notice to YouTube next?

  • I didn't do it.
  • http://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-bans-songs-lady-gaga-backstreet-boys-053439791.html [yahoo.com]

    From The Article

    China has banned 100 songs from being featured on websites, barring artists ranging from Lady Gaga to the Backstreet Boys apparently for being out of tune with the country's cultural authorities. The ministry of culture said it aimed to regulate the "order" of the Internet music market, adding songs that "harm the security of state culture must be cleaned up and regulated under the law". The notice, issued o

  • ...is futile. ROFLMAO. They will eventually fail miserably and the way they value "face" who knows what will happen. It's good comedy though.

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