PR Firm Unwisely Tangles With Penny Arcade 419
New submitter FSWKU writes "Courtesy of Penny-Arcade, Paul Christoforo of Ocean Marketing provides a perfect example of what not to do when interacting with customers, especially if you are doing so on behalf of another company. There's name dropping, an ego trip worthy of Charlie Sheen, and even what appears to be a promise to commit libel. Other outlets are already picking up the story and running with it, and an examination of Ocean Marketing's website has generated accusations of plagiarism."
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well he did get a lot of PR so that is debatable.
Wow (Score:3, Insightful)
From the article:
"You placed a pre order just like any software title the gets a date moved due to the tweaks and bugs not being worked out and GameStop or any other place holds your cash and im sure you don’t complain to activision or epic games so put on your big boy hat and wait it out like everyone else."
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Well, now your little tirade has been Slashdotted. I hope you take your pwning like a big boy.
Wow. (Score:1, Insightful)
Does anyone involved in there come across as anything but a douchebag? Certainly the PR guy is the worst but the whole thing is a pasty nerd slapfight of the worst degree.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is wrong! (Score:4, Insightful)
These aren't personal e-mails. This is akin to Microsoft telling you to fuck off. One bad employee shouldn't ruin it for the whole company, but who allowed this guy to be part of the team in the first place?
Re:Don't pick a fight (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't pick a fight with someone who has their own convention.
Denial of Denial is what? (Score:5, Insightful)
The reply I got was simply "It's spam"
Here's the problem: I'd bet money that at least 1/2 of those *are* spam. Vindictive pricks who bomb the shit out of product review scores are becoming more common. They'll negatively review products they've never seen from companies or people they've never spoken to because of the author/companies political views, PR gaffs, a nerd-o-sphere uproar like this, etc. They'll organize campaigns to bomb the reviews of every single book from an author or every product from an entire corporation for purely political or vengeful reasons. We've discussed this problem on slashdot many times before.
These self-righteous bastards view it as some kind of justice, when in fact they're just polluting the review ecosystem with lies, hearsay, and crappy manifestos. If the product or company is that bad it will become clear, from the legitimate reviews, quite quickly. No need to break out your weird brand of street justice and fuck up the system for everyone.
This time the people at Ocean Marketing are arrogant, mismanaging pricks; most of the time you can't be so certain when you see this kind of event unfolding.
Honestly, when I was reading the Penny-Arcade post I started wondering whether this was really just a vengeful ex-employee, or even corporate espionage from another vendor. It wasn't until I read multiple older reviews and forum posts corroborating this story that I became convinced otherwise.
Beware internet justice: you never really know who's behind the keyboard or just what kind of destructive, ignorant campaign they're running.
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems to me the customer has a right to be pissed off if the company is screwing him around and then insulting him on top of it.
I almost feel sorry for the PR Guy (Score:3, Insightful)
This should be entertaining to me; it is a pretty sweet burn to someone that appears to deserve his fate. Yet I can't laugh at the exchange; it's like taking joy in reality television. Many people do, but I just feel dirty watching the downward trajectory of humanity. Is the customer that less of a dick? Is his motivation at making this exchange public to help other frustrated gamers or to make revenge so sweet and cold? The motive is probably somewhere closer to revenge than help.
Re:This is wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
He shot himself in the foot, emptied the clip and then reloaded.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Meh, if that's all it is then it's not that bad. It's obvious the guy is some sort of ADHD type guy, which a lot of marketing/business/public relations people are.
Did you even RTFA? I think ADHD is being a little generous; more like fucking retarded. I have never once in my life seen an exchange quite like that between a professional in any industry and a paying customer! They fucking train minimum-wage counter jockies at McDonalds better customer service skills than that idiot displayed. Even the most meaningless marketing double-speak is better than that shit, because at least that's polite...
Then, of course, when he realizes he's talking to Gabe, instead of that adult sense of self-preservation we so often see when someone realizes they seriously fucked up, he starts fucking arguing with him, belittling a customer to a guy with a website seen by millions of people daily.
If this is "not all that bad", I really need to see an example that fits your definition of "that bad". Does the guy have to fuck his mother? Kill his dog? How much worse can a Customer Service/Public Relations scenario get without involving direct bodily harm or, at the very least, multiple felonies?
Man, I wish I worked for this marketing firm, if only to see the shit-storm from the inside. The fact that they even hired someone that responds to a customer in such a fashion is ridiculous. I don't give a shit if you work in an "edgy" field or one that's primary demographic is children and young adults (as if that were even the case with gaming, but supposing it is); obviously the people buying the goddamned things are adults. You're not writing an email to one of your dickhead coworkers. It's not an IM. It's an official communication with a paying customer, an unhappy paying customer at that. Put on your "big boy hat" and write a professional email. Proper grammar and punctuation is not a suggestion...not unless you want to make yourself look like even more of a retard.
Just one more company to add to the "Never Do Business With These Clowns" list.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
He does seem like the blowhard/BSer/sales/marketing type, but there's a big difference between being Full of S--t and being a S--thead
And there is also a power-balance issue. The big marketing cahuna should not be a dick to the little customer. Big guys stomping down on little guys is a big no-no according to righteousness 101.
If a little customer would be a dick to a marketing representative of some business it wouldn't matter. They should just reply respectfully and calmly and maybe laugh about it with the coworkers by the watercooler.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Having ADHD is no excuse for poor grammar, especially for a marketing/business/public relations "professional" sending a message, in his official capacity, to a customer!
Counterpoint (Score:1, Insightful)
He typed these words and hit send:
Welcome to the internet, bitch. That’s how I roll.
No amount of righteous anger makes that anything less than laughably douchey. Especially when it was preceded by a 5 paragraph tirade about how he didn't get his toy in time for Christmas.
Then there's the PA dude who feels the need to mention not once but twice that he's famous.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I almost feel sorry for the PR Guy (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Don't pick a fight (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the best way to update that for the internet?
...
Help me out here.
"Don't be a dick."
Works anywhere.
Re:Counterpoint (Score:4, Insightful)
I really don't understand your logic here. So because the merchandise in question was a "toy" and the shipping deadline was "Christmas", the customer is a child and had no right to be upset that the advertised shipping dates were being grossly missed after he paid full price?
Read the whole exchange again. Dave was being a saint for most of the exchange (much more than I would have been were I in his shoes). He only exploded after the PR guy insulted him.
And the PA dude only kept reminding him that he was one half of Penny Arcade because PR dude was bragging that he knew the guys behind PAX (which he did not).
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the thing I can't wrap my mind around; no matter how stupid you think the customer's complaint is, you treat them with respect. There is nothing whatsoever to be gained by being an asshole to a paying customer. There can be no positive outcome...at the very least, you just lost potential sales, and at worst, you just cost yourself a job. No matter what happens, you lose.
This isn't even really a customer service thing necessarily. It's simple logic. Even the most patronizing, insincere apology from a major company without a death wish is at least polite. I've gotten some politely worded 'Go Fuck Yourself' responses in the past, but I have never seen something so outright hostile, nor stupid, on behalf of an employee for a professional marketing firm in my life. Typically you have to get your hands on leaked internal emails to see retarded shit like this as regards a customer.
I've worked in Customer Service for many years, including a stint providing computer tech support to people that, if not for the accent, could have convincingly passed themselves off as recent immigrants from the Brazilian Rain Forest where electricity is wizard shit, and I have never seen or heard an exchange like that. We all think it, but we never say it.
What a fucking idiot this Paul guy is.
Re:Counterpoint (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
The original X-Box contoller was designed for people with two thumbs on their right hand. Apart from that I'm amazed how sturdy it is. I went through a couple of joy stick on Summer Games alone and yet this beast still keeps going on. Ezio, Batman, The Kid... it helped me see them all through.
I don't trust that new contraption to be as sturdy but they are at least trying to solve that two-thumb problem.
Next step:
-a mouse that has a scroll wheel and a middle button that doesn't interfere with it while aknowledging the fact I have a ring finger and a pinkie that are fully functional
-a game controller which does the above and also aknowledges I've got a middle finger which I'd be quite oblidged to show the fine folks of Razr, Logitech, Saitek, Microsoft and co.
-a self-cleaning litter box for the cat that doesn't scare the litter out of me
A man has gotta dream.
Re:A classic example... (Score:0, Insightful)
True but everyone in the whole exchange came off like a childish douchbag, not just that one PR guy.
The whole thing is just stupid, from top to bottom. Gamer nerd fight stupid.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
True but everyone in the whole exchange came off like a childish douchbag, not just that one PR guy
Right, but the customer is almost expected to be childish. The PR rep is expected to be professional. It's actually part of the job description: "professional interaction with customers".
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not really finding it funny. One guy isn't getting stuff he needed to give gifts for christmas. Other guy just lost his livelihood to a stupid and unprofessional emotional outburst.
Finally the guy who invented a harness that made playing more accessible to disabled kids is getting smeared all across the sites for things he had little to do with.
I'd say this is mostly a tragedy of how internet rage can fuck up lives of people that don't deserve it, and those who do deserve it get a whole lot more fucking up then they should (guy's wife and child apparently getting hit by internet mob now).
And in the end, the original guy is still not getting the stuff he wanted for christmas. Everyone loses, and I really find that quite tragic rather then funny.
Re:Don't pick a fight (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't pick a fight with a big company or with people with money or power. Great. In other words, if you are the small man, you are fucked.
This is actually very true. As the small man, you need to do one of two things:
1) Go get money and power and come back later
2) Find someone sympathetic to your cause who has money or power
Dave with a V chose option #2
Re:I almost feel sorry for the PR Guy (Score:5, Insightful)
Is the customer that less of a dick? Is his motivation at making this exchange public to help other frustrated gamers or to make revenge so sweet and cold? The motive is probably somewhere closer to revenge than help.
When Mike said he would cancel the dude's booth at Pax if he had one, the customer e-mailed Mike saying that wouldn't be necessary. It doesn't sound like revenge to me. The customer wrote polite e-mails asking for an order status update on something he had already paid for and received a completely unprofessional response. This is actually one of the best uses for the press. When the big guys don't value your two controller purchases, you spread the story to the press so that they can stand to lose a lot more than a two controller order. That ensures every customer is respected.
I should also mention that at this point, boycotting the product is not the correct response. This was a representative for a PR firm which has already been fired by the guys actually selling the project. Mission accomplished, no more punishment is warranted.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm with you on the guy who designed the controller being unfairly caught in this, but how do you see "one guy just lost his livelihood to a stupid and unprofessional emotional outburst" as a tragedy?
That is exactly how one loses their livelihood. That's the process of screwing up so badly you get booted from the profession. That's what it entails. When your job is to work with people, and you screw up politeness as royally as that guy did, if you don't lose your job then something is very very wrong with the world. Read all the emails, to both Dave the customer and Gabe at PA, and Paul's "apologies". It's quite clear this guy doesn't give a crap until he's caught. Also this appears not to be the first time he's been called out on this type of exchange with customers. How many do-overs do you expect him to get in his professional life?
He fucked up his job about as badly as one can fuck up their job, by shitting all over the customer, and then shitting all over one of the major PR outlets in the market for the product he was representing.
In any measure of the situation, he deserves to be fired and ostracized from the market in the future for his failure. That isn't tragedy, that is justice. Let him get in the unemployment line and maybe somebody competent, worthy, and sane can step in to fill the role he obviously is not fit to handle.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but the real question is, did they sack those responsible for hiring this guy?
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm with you on everyone but the guy who did it. Did you read the emails? And the dates on all of them? This isn't an outburst, bad day, roid rage, ADHD, etc. This guy is a 100% pure bullshit artist. If you've never met this type in real life, consider yourself lucky. Every word out of their mouths is bullshit meant to improve their image and make themselves seem more important, and there isn't the slightest bit of substance to any of it. They will not genuinely reform or recant because of something like this, they'll just spew even more bullshit. He seems to be backing down for now only because there is a virtual gun to his head. He will behave well exactly as long as that gun is there and not one second longer. He deserves everything he's getting and then some more. He might genuinely reform some day, but don't believe it without lots of hard evidence from multiple people other than him.
I feel a little sorry also for the wife and kid who may not have known what they were getting into by getting involved with this guy, but hopefully they'll learn what he's really like now.
Re:A classic example... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Other guy just lost his livelihood to a stupid and unprofessional emotional outburst.
If he were a truck driver, or a factory worker, I would agree that he shouldn't suffer this penalty.
But he isn't. He is in the business of public relations. He just lost his job because he couldn't do it.