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Copyright Lobby Wants Canada Out of TPP Until Stronger Copyright Laws Passed 164

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the sharing-is-sinful-children dept.
An anonymous reader writes "'The U.S. government just concluded a consultation on whether it should support Canada's entry into the Trans Pacific Partnership negotiations.' The TPP raises significant concerns about extension of copyright and digital locks, so that might be a good thing. However, Michael Geist reports that the IIPA, which represents the major movie, music, and software lobby associations, sees this as an opportunity to force Canada to enact a Canadian DMCA and to implement ACTA."
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Copyright Lobby Wants Canada Out of TPP Until Stronger Copyright Laws Passed

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @05:21AM (#38722688)

    Can't have it both ways, the extra tax on recordable media would have to go, but I bet they would lobby against that.

    • by azalin (67640) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @06:04AM (#38722834)
      I actually like the concept of the tax much more than the alternatives. It accepts that fair use includes a certain amount of copying and sharing, while at the same time reimbursing the recording industry. So it could be a win-win situation (if you accept that the artist/recording companies do have a right to make money of their product). It could be a kind of music flatrate for everyone. Of course this ceases to work once the companies get greedy and start stating song x was copied y times with song x would have sold y times and therefore they should get y times the retail store price of the cd.
      • by king neckbeard (1801738) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @06:36AM (#38722952)

        it accepts that fair use includes a certain amount of copying and sharing, while at the same time reimbursing the recording industry.

        Fair use does involve copying and sharing, but since the use is 'fair', there is absolutely no reason that the recording industry should be receive any money. As I understand it, the tax really only covers personal backups and mixtapes. That is not within the realm of what copyright should be allowed to dictate.

        if you accept that the artist/recording companies do have a right to make money of their product

        That's a very strange notion. "To make money" is not something you can really have an explicit right to do. Copyright gives authors a specific opportunity to make money that a market without it would not offer. And I do not accept that even having that is a right of an author. Instead, it is (in theory) a means to an end of enriching the public.

        • by Nursie (632944)

          As I understand it, the tax really only covers personal backups and mixtapes.

          Why would you need a tax for that? That should be a basic part of the bargain.

          • by Pieroxy (222434)

            Because you need to feed the trolls. The trolls being the *AA (your localized version of course)

            In France, we have the tax, the long terms, the three strike law. Soon, they'll have more power than the government itself.

            • by khallow (566160)

              In France, we have the tax, the long terms, the three strike law. Soon, they'll have more power than the government itself.

              And where will that "power" come from? The government which will maintain the arrangements as long as the tribute/bribes continue to be paid. I remain amazed that people think a greedy attitude and a business plan that isn't too shitty somehow magically translates into genuine power over others.

              • by Pieroxy (222434)

                The three strikes law actually doesn't involve the judiciary system at all, except in a completely automated way. No judge or any other human being is being told anything. The music producers are entirely all-powerful to cut the internet to any french citizen.

                I agree with you, it's just bells and whistles since they can't abuse it too much, but still! There was a time where their main business was to produce music!

                And all that to try to go against human nature. This will cease at some point, and 200 years f

          • You don't even get that: Even if you have some legal protection for fair use that doesn't involve having to pay your life savings in legal fees to defend it, you still will likely run into DRM which makes it technologically impossible to exercise fair use - and breaking the DRM is itsself a crime in most countries now.
        • by Ihmhi (1206036)

          Fair use does involve copying and sharing, but since the use is 'fair', there is absolutely no reason that the recording industry should be receive any money. As I understand it, the tax really only covers personal backups and mixtapes. That is not within the realm of what copyright should be allowed to dictate.

          Yes, but the music industry is anything but fair and has shown time and time again that they are willing to bring out the lawyers and drag shit like this out in court for years at a massive expense just as a giant "fuck you". The media tax is bullshit, but it's bullshit meant to appease them and prevent even worse bullshit. Canada accedes to them in a fashion... and now the fuckers want to double dip!

      • And if I actually downloaded moves, music or Tv shows I might agree. But I don't. I pay my cable company for that (music channels, movie channels).

        What other private companies want to tax me next? I live in British Columbia where drinking and driving laws have recently changed. You can now be fined for 0.05 of alcohol in your blood (although the legal limit is still 0.08) so this has contributed to huge decline in people dining out and enjoying a drink at pubs. How about a tax paying to pay for free ca
        • by Aighearach (97333)

          How about a tax paying to pay for free cabs home?

          No wonder you guys aren't finding a happy solution if that is what you think of.

          How about keeping regular public transit running during the hours that there is a large demand to recreate?

          Or, perhaps you guys should do some public education on designated drivers.

          Was there political threats from the pub owners, "if this law passes nobody will want to come here" training people in advance to stop coming for awhile? If so, don't worry, that effect is very temporary.

      • by xelah (176252)
        It's not a good concept at all. It's not just about being 'fair' to a loosely defined collection of many people named 'the recording industry', the incentives placed on people is also important. Copyright is about creating incentives to product copyright material which will be benificial to society as a whole. That means rewarding people who play a part in producing things that are widely valued, whether as creators, financers who take on risk, or whatever, and not rewarding those who do not. Distributed bl
      • by sgt scrub (869860)

        Why? The collectors get 60% of the money, the attorney/agency keeping tabs for the artist get 10%, and the artist has to split up the remaining 30% with everyone involved making it -- including the tax man. All of this bullshit is about middlemen not getting a cut. You don't get to tax shared media. You can't run an agency if the art only gets sold once.

      • by fedos (150319)

        song x was copied y times with song x would have sold y times and therefore they should get y times the retail store price of the cd.

        Don't use the same variable to refer to different things.

        • by azalin (67640)

          Of course this ceases to work once the companies get greedy and start stating song x was copied y times with song x would have sold y times and therefore they should get y times the retail store price of the cd.

          Don't use the same variable to refer to different things.

          x=name of song
          y=nr of times song is copied

          statement with y=100 000 and x="Jailhouse Rock": ... companies get greedy and start stating "Jailhouse Rock" was copied 100 000 times, with song "Jailhouse Rock" would have sold 100 000 times and therefore they should get 100 000 times the retail store price of the cd.
          Recording companies do tend to name their perceived lost profits that way. Which of course is bogus, because of the 100 000 people who did copy the song, only 1-2% (if not less) might have want

  • Bye Bye America (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Good riddance MAFIAA, Your country will find itself increasingly isolated, because Canada will still carry on trading with other countries including Europe and Australia, and will probably set up it's own treaty to NEVER trade with your government until this retarded nonsense stops. I'm being 100% serious :P

    • by azalin (67640)

      I'm being 100% serious :P

      sigh

    • Re:Bye Bye America (Score:5, Informative)

      by GeckoX (259575) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @08:42AM (#38723672)

      Oh if only our current government had the balls to do this. Historically you'd be spot on.
      Unfortunately there's zero chance right now. Bush North, er, I mean Harper, already has us bent over with our pants down for this. He tried forcing through a DMCA style bill through both terms in minority and thankfully failed. He has no such restrictions now however and it is only a matter of time before this happens.

      • by rtb61 (674572)

        It's time for the US to wake up to reality or piss off. The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Strategic_Economic_Partnership [wikipedia.org] "The original agreement between the countries of Brunei, Chile, New Zealand and Singapore". Four additional countries â" Australia, Peru, United States, Malaysia and Vietnam".

        WTF, corrupt US lobbyists are attempt to lay down the law, to all the countries, no discussion you will obey. Everylooks at the US being a corrupt government run

      • by ceoyoyo (59147)

        Harper has been reconsidering his relationship with the US lately. He finally got tired of them dithering on the Keystone pipeline and started investigating selling oil to China instead. When various US officials assured him that the pipeline would go through, he apparently told them "nah, we're looking into other options now."

      • You make it sound like Harper is resisting... This is more like he is on his knees giving tribute to the corporate gods...

    • by Wowsers (1151731)

      The Chinese are continuing to buy a solid assets (like gold), other countries are dumping the US Dollar, the US are still spending and printing money. And yet, people still think that "Intellectual Property" is the saviour of an economy (same stupidity in the UK).

      Have no sympathy for the RIAA / MPAA and the rest of these trade cartels who have REFUSED to update their business model. Actually not quite right, they've taken to suing their own "customers", who in turn are dumping their products and spending th

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @05:32AM (#38722736)
    You don't want the TPP and you don't want the US forcing their copyright laws onto you. Here's your chance to say that you want neither.. you should holler it from the rooftops until every last corrupt politician knows it.
    • by annex1 (920373)

      You don't want the TPP and you don't want the US forcing their copyright laws onto you. Here's your chance to say that you want neither.. you should holler it from the rooftops until every last corrupt politician knows it.

      Excellent comment. This is exactly what we need to do. Tell every person you meet and scream it to every person that can hear it. Write as many letters to every representative you can. Our freedom continues to creep away from us and we need to make it known that this shit has to stop. They were elected by us and they work for us, let's remind them of that!

      • by Tsingi (870990)

        You don't want the TPP and you don't want the US forcing their copyright laws onto you. Here's your chance to say that you want neither.. you should holler it from the rooftops until every last corrupt politician knows it.

        Excellent comment. This is exactly what we need to do. Tell every person you meet and scream it to every person that can hear it. Write as many letters to every representative you can. Our freedom continues to creep away from us and we need to make it known that this shit has to stop. They were elected by us and they work for us, let's remind them of that!

        I totally agree, but be careful you don't ruin some long time reader's Slashdot experience while you do it.

        Sounds like another FTA, those exist so that corporations can get around a countries laws. Free trade agreements are treaties, treaties supersede domestic law.

        • by stanlyb (1839382)
          Nothing supersedes the domestic law. NOTHING.
          • by Tsingi (870990)

            Nothing supersedes the domestic law. NOTHING.

            You force me to Google.

            Turns out we're both right. In Canada, OZ, and GB, treaties cannot change domestic law without a further act of parliament. It is only in the US that treaties become law by default.

            The governments of all the countries I mention can sign treaties without further approval.

            I stand corrected and I'm glad I looked that up. I'm not an American and I thought that that rule was more or less international.

          • by compro01 (777531) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @09:39AM (#38724248)

            Not to worry. The Harper Government will be harmonizing and modernizing our domestic law to ensure strong economic partnerships with our key allies and provide a strong and vibrant economic landscape.

            • by stanlyb (1839382)
              When we discussed the last "treaty" with USA, which in fact is giving them all the info about everyone and everything crossing our border (canadian), and how we become the 51th state, i asked them the reasonable question: NOW IS TIME TO COUNT. WHO THE FUCK VOTED FOR THEM?
              No one dared to say anything. That's our main problem, we are a nation of kids, 2nd grade. Barely able to read and do some base math, but unable to take any responsibility for their acts (voting).
    • by mark-t (151149)
      I don't know if you realized this or not, but the voice of Canadians doesn't seem to matter one iota with regards to Copyright these days... a majority of voters were stupid enough to allow the Conservative government to get a majority position in parliament, and now the Conservatives can now do whatever the heck they damn well want, even in the face of otherwise unanimous opposition from all other party members. Since the Conservatives are in the USA's hip pocket, take a wild guess which way this is goin
    • >You don't want the TPP and you don't want the US forcing their copyright laws onto you. Here's your chance to say that you want neither.. you should holler it from the rooftops until every last corrupt politician knows it.

      But when pretty much only Michael Geist will report on this while none of the big newspapers will report it. If they do it'll be on some obscure blog deep inside the news site.

    • The media industries have poured so much money on our politicians we actually needed to give them swimming lessons! Not only that but the Conservative government is determined to enact every law that has not worked anywhere else. Also, if you disagree with the Government then you must be a terrorist. Things are polarized near the poles!
    • Unfortunately, it's too late. Last election we elected a Conservative majority. In Canadian politics, this essentially means they can pass anything they want. They've been busily demonstrating that since the election in spring.

      Usually, there is still debate and a good airing of issues. A majority government can still pass anything they really want to, but they tend to listen, at least a bit, and are also thinking about the next election. If there's enough outcry, bills have been quietly let go before.

      The Ha

  • by donscarletti (569232) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @05:33AM (#38722740)
    I'm sure Brunei, New Zealand and Singapore are already familiar enough with their fellow Commonwealth member to evaluate its merits without requiring the US to provide a character reference.
  • Wait, what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by VortexCortex (1117377) <VortexCortex@Nos ... t-retrograde.com> on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @05:54AM (#38722806)

    opportunity to force Canada to enact

    What the FUCK am I reading?!

    I'm not sure what's more offensive: That they're so used to ignoring the democratic process in the US they ACTUALLY think this way, that ANY government thinks ACTA/DMCA helps further scientific progress and the arts, or that Corporations can throw their weight around in the political arena without being boycotted into oblivion.

    • "I'm not sure what's more offensive: That they're so used to ignoring the democratic process in the US they ACTUALLY think this way, that ANY government thinks ACTA/DMCA helps further scientific progress and the arts, or that Corporations can throw their weight around in the political arena without being boycotted into oblivion. "

      We're getting to the point "don't assume ignorance when the answer might involve malice instead". So for your comment above, "points 1 and 3". The lobbies used to be at least a lit

      • by mcgrew (92797) *

        We're getting to the point "don't assume ignorance when the answer might involve malice instead".

        Don't confuse Hanlon's Razor with mcgrew's razor. Hanlon (which I believe is a misspelling of Heinlein) "Never assume malice what incompetence explains". mcgrew: "never assume incompetence what greedy self-interest explains".

        If I "screw up" and benefit from the "screwup", you should assume the "mistake" wasn't really mistaken. If I screw up and you're harmed but I'm not helped, Hanlon should come into play.

    • by Tsingi (870990)

      ... or that Corporations can throw their weight around in the political arena without being boycotted into oblivion.

      I'd like to think that you are right. I don't, but I'd like to.

  • by Sinesurfer (40786) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @06:08AM (#38722852) Homepage

    I respect Canada for placing *their* needs before that of the US unlike the New Zealand and Australian governments act of total, complete and utter capitulation.

    TPP doesn't need the US and Canada should be brave enough to propose direct negotiation with Australia, New Zealand, Brunei and Singapore. When you include the United Kingdom then these four Commonwealth realms have so very much more in common than a shared and separate Head of State. Our support of democracy, human rights, the doctrine of common law, a single language and our Westminster Parliamentary tradition to entreat with our contemporises in Brunei and Singapore. Diplomats already refer to these four nations as CANZUK then by including both Brunei and Singapore we'd have a trading pact second only to the US, Japan, the EU and China (with NZ already in an FTA with China and Australia very likely soon to follow).

    It's the Commonwealth unification of similar minds and morals for *our* own mutual benefit instead just American copyright holders who continue to extend their copyright period.

    • by Internetuser1248 (1787630) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @06:32AM (#38722932)

      TPP doesn't need the US and Canada should be brave enough to propose direct negotiation with Australia, New Zealand, Brunei and Singapore.

      As a New Zealander I can confidently say the the NZ government will only negotiate as the US government directs them too anyway. Australia will probably not be much different.

    • by c (8461)

      > I respect Canada for placing *their* needs before that of the US unlike the
      > New Zealand and Australian governments act of total, complete and utter
      > capitulation.

      Whoah there... don't be too hasty with the respect.

      I can assure you that Canada will be more than happy to totally, completely and utterly capitulate to the US as soon as feasible. The only reason we haven't recently is a few years of ineffectual and/or minority governments. We're back to a majority government and I'm quite confident th

  • by Phrogman (80473) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @06:23AM (#38722906) Homepage

    http://www.openmedia.ca/ [openmedia.ca]

    They have done a pretty decent job of getting the word out about the Telecom's and Big Media's attempts to shape Canada to be another of their bitches.

  • Is it just me? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by erroneus (253617) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @06:25AM (#38722910) Homepage

    Recall the days when Microsoft was "partnering" itself with just about everyone in order to get them to give up whatever it is they have that's valuable or useful for next to nothing and then Microsoft screws them over somehow after they've got it? (It's probably still going on, we just hear less about it or business has finally started to catch on..?)

    Doesn't this seem eerily like what the US copyright interests are doing through the US government? Setting up partnerships and trade agreements and ultimately screwing the other parties over and/or manipulating them to do their bidding? How much longer before they start catching on? I get the feeling they are already catching on somehow...

  • Natural Devolution (Score:5, Insightful)

    by redelm (54142) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @07:11AM (#38723056) Homepage

    Just what do you expect? First, concentrated interests learn through trial-and-error how to influence, control and capture their most relevant regulators and legislators. Once this is done (Sonny Bono copyright extention of 1995), they look to extend their power and influence further afield, in this case to foreign governments.

    This is just business as usual and the concentrated interests can pay for it. The real problem is the dilute interests (public at large) does not individually have enough money at stake to do anything. This inertia allows the concentrated interests to prevail. The US Constitution protects against some abuses, but more active measures are necessary. A static, defensive strategy always loses in the long term.

    • by Tsingi (870990)

      ... The US Constitution protects against some abuses, but more active measures are necessary. A static, defensive strategy always loses in the long term.

      I'm sorry to say it, but I don't think the US government pays any attention to the constitution any more. It's too bad, it's a terrific document.

      The corporations have won, they own the largest military in the world, and now have the right to deploy it anywhere for any reason, including on US soil, against US citizens, and with impunity.

      And when they do, we will be forced to revolt.

      It's going to be ugly.

      • by redelm (54142)
        Again, just what do you expect? Look at it -- the US Consititution almost exclusively acts to limit the powers of both leglislative and executive branches. Of course they are going to object and find loopholes and squeeze past any way they can. Weasles gonna weasle!

        A bigger issue is the tremendous amounts of money spent or controlled through legislation. This gives lots of incentive to lobby. And difficulty stopping big spenders.

        The courts who have always been a bit of a safeguard for minority rights

  • When I went to the IIPA, Web of Trust [mywot.com] went berserk and said the site has a poor reputation for "trustworthiness," "vendor reliability" and "privacy." It also scored a low score on "child safety."

  • Patents and copyrights must be abolished. They are just going to be the last nail in the coffin of US economy.

    The Free Market solution must be used - Trade Secrets.

    You want to protect your business for a while? You must not be able to use government force to protect your business model, so use trade secrets. Of-course /. crowd doesn't understand the principle behind trade secrets, so I have to spell [slashdot.org] it [slashdot.org] out [slashdot.org].

    Trade secrets are much more fair business practice, it does not lock any potential competitor out off

    • by lcam (848192)

      I think Abolishment is an extremist position. Revised, certainly, so that we don't make criminals out our citizens for their "cultural" and/or economic values.

      Copyrights and Patents have their place in a healthy capitalistic system. The problem we have is our capitalistic system doesn't seem so healthy anymore because IMO, business models made obsolete by advances in technology are being clung to and our political and legal landscape is unable to adapt in a meaningful way.

      I didn't know Canada has a su

    • by mark-t (151149)
      The problem with this is that without the exclusivity associated with patents and copyrights, you create disincentives for people to widely publish the things that they create, unless they were already willing to completely sacrifice the exclusivity that relative obscurity offers them in the first place. While I realize there may be no lack of people who are willing to do this, it's still *SUBSTANTIALLY* lower than the number of people that utilize copyright to retain their exclusivity on the right to dec
  • CreditCardRate+DebitCardFee+BillPayCharges+WhateverNext ....
    AirFare+BaggageFee+MealPurchase+WhateverNext ....
    RIAA+ASCAP+MediaFormatChange+MediaTaxes+WhateverNext ....
    Whatever is next? Is a creative way to increase prices, profits, and maintain other charges.

    CorporateWelfare+CorporateLaws+CorporateTaxes+CorporateBailout+WhateverNext ... is not capitalism or democracy, but it is a totalitarian welfare state for plutocrats. IOW: FuckUS

  • At the end of the day, this is small potatoes for TPP. The real barrier to Canada being taken seriously in these talks is the outrageously protectionist supply management system in dairy, and the 300% tariff wall that goes with it. Since the supposidly "conservative" and "pro-trade" government is quite in favor of keeping that price gouging system in place to placate farmers in Ontario & Quebec, Canada's not going to be making much progress in TPP.

    • by sgt scrub (869860)

      This isn't about tangable things like natural resources. This is a "foot in the door" attempt to sneak in control on non-tangables using natural resource trade as hostage. The U.S. isn't even a member of the TPP. However, if we can chump the countries involved into adding restrictive copyright agreements, that will change. That is what we are good at. ie. Passing laws that look like one thing but mean something completely different. An example is SOPA. The talk is "protect the childrenz and businesse

  • Why do people keep buying their crappy content? Stop buying their products and they will not have the type of power they have now to OWN governments all around the world. This crazyness has to stop. When the Internet was just starting to get popular these were the same people that were trying to find ways to kill it. I for one will not purchase,rent, or go to the movie theatre anymore to consume any of their content. When you keep consuming their products they take your money to go buy laws that work
    • Because the crappy content is backed up by an incredibly powerful marketing machine that tells people what they want, and the people believe it. Billions of dollars have been spend on the art and science of advertising, and it has become very refined and potent now.
  • by ThatsNotPudding (1045640) on Tuesday January 17, 2012 @08:05AM (#38723374)
    The right-wing always frets about the dreaded UN wanting to control the world. But about the MAFIAA and Standard & Poors (who made money in the sub-prime pyramid scheme) being allowed to literally threaten and destabilize entire governments, they say not one harsh word.
  • ... I, and I suppose a lot of Europeans with me, saw Canadians as less nonsense-and-hype-prone than US Americans; this goes especially for Canadian politicians as opposed to US politicians. I sincerely wish the Candadians to keep this reputation.

    One might be astounded at the amount of credit the USA has lost in the western world. Both the tone of the OP and many of the comments here seem to underscore this.

  • If the media industry continues this shameless behaviour, there will be more an more people like me who support the complete abolition of copyrights. That's going to hit in the face the media industry, and I, for one, will be watching and laughing. I want nothing more than my scientific research results to be available to everybody. A great number of musicians and visual artists are just as nonchalant about copyrights, and our numbers are going to grow. It seems inevitable.

  • I think Canada should call the US's bluff on this one. I know sentiment here isn't going to allow the US to enforce SOPA style laws on Australia, and frankly, without Australia this whole TPP thing isn't going to happen.

    Give it a year, and then once Australia makes the Yanks go home with their tails between their legs, Canada can join the TPP without having to yield to the American's strange notion of 'rights'.

  • The *AA have to try to force the US government to act against Canada because Canada has intelligent not to mention real election financing laws.
  • Copyright lobby wants Canada out of the TPP, and I want the copyright lobby out of Canada.
  • Your own White House and Congress canned SOPA, yet you demand that Canada implement the same kind of draconian legislation that YOUR OWN PEOPLE AND GOVERNMENT REJECTED.

    Can you see this pair of fingers waving on high?

  • Prime Minister Harper is determined to expand FT agreements worldwide. Last week the final touches on the FTA with the EU was finalized. They have eliminated the Canadian Wheat Board late in 2011 ... something that the US vigorously demanded in the original US-Canada FTA signed by George Bush Sr and PM Brian Mulroney and ratified by the two governments in 1988 ... and then equally vigorously demanded a second time when the Canada-US FTA was abandoned and NAFTA (adding Mexico) took it's place. He has also go

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