Mozilla Ponders Major Firefox UI Refresh 282
CWmike writes "Mozilla is working on a revamp of Firefox to synchronize its various versions — desktop, tablet, phone and Windows 8 Metro — into a single visual style, according to documents posted by members of its user interface (UI) design team. The project, which does not have a name, and the earlier blending of Mozilla's mobile and desktop design groups, is meant to bring more coherence to the various versions of the open-source browser. 'One of our major goals for the year [is] getting Firefox to feel more like one product — more 'Firefoxy' — across all our platforms, desktop to tablet to phone,' Madhava Enro of the Mozilla UI design team, said in a post to his personal blog on Tuesday. Enro posted a slideshow he and others used the week before to present their proposals at a company get-together. According to the presentation, some UI elements will be shared across all Firefox editions, among them a lean toward 'softer texture' and smoother curves in the design."
The beauty of Open Source. (Score:5, Insightful)
DoNotWant (Score:4, Insightful)
see subject
Re:The beauty of Open Source. (Score:4, Insightful)
If they're going to start copying Chrome's UI, why wouldn't I just install Chrome?
Just for a change (Score:5, Insightful)
Another day, another Firefox UI 'revamp'. And another major version number to go with it, no doubt.
Meanwhile, if a download times out Firefox still reports it as having completed successfully. This has been the case since at least Phoenix 0.4, and presumably since it's conception. Yet it remains unfixed. Apparently in 11 major versions and 9 years, not to mention countless UI revamps it seems the FF team still haven't realised that an HTTP connection can fail.
No. Please Stop (Score:5, Insightful)
Please stop. Just stop. To re-purpose what I've written before: Stop turning my computer programs into children's toys.
Stop taking away all my menu bars, tables, text boxes, whites spaces, status bars. Stop replacing them giant coloured icons and disappearing peelback tabs and menus. Am I expected to just intuitively "feel" where all the controls and options are now? I don't understand why you are doing this.
This has to stop, as it's happening across the program spectrum. I blame the influence of smartphones and similar touch oriented devices.Speaking as someone who has never owed a smart phone I have always found them restrictive and confusing. Using one is like navigating a theme park without a map. Eventually you'll want to just find a place to sit down but you'll only get more lost among the theme rides and hot dog stands.
The encroaching presence of fatuous smartphone UIs onto my desktop annoys and increasingly frustrates me, and has to stop. I never liked Macs, and Ubuntu's unity is driving me off the distro. I don't want this and I have trouble believing that most FF users do, or will ever. Stop shoving this down the throats of your misfortune users.
Stop. Firefox does not need this. Its UI does not need to be "refreshed" or "toned down" or "streamlined" or even "supercharged". It is a good UI. Title bars and menubars are a desired and productive element of its interface. It's OK to have little icons, buttons, and text around the screen; I use a keyboard and mouse instead of fat fingers and caressing gestures. Stop assuming a smart-phone has been my primary computing device for the last five years.
Please stop this. Just stop. Someone, please tell them to stop.
Okay, maybe it is about time to fork it... (Score:5, Insightful)
I may get accused of being a cranky old man but seriously, what I want from a browser UI is to access the functions of the browser like back/forward, refresh, an address bar that actually displays the address including the protocol, maybe start page button and bookmarks. What I don't need (and this apparently includes, from the mock-ups) is a "twitter" button.
I'm starting to think the problem is that Mozilla is hiring a lot of people who then (naturally) feel obligated to "do something" and weird changes are the result. Also, why copy everyone else? Why not, ahem, think different for once? Not everyone wants a Chrome-style browser and those that do probably use Chrome (and they should, more power to them).
Re:why people stuck to... (Score:4, Insightful)
Dunno if it's just me, but there feels like a massive shift in computing coming through soon. It's this weird Tech version of the Mayan doomsday where everybody is going all "OMG Mobile!"
So desktop users will be sorta pushed to the sidelines, and then we're all supposed to live on our phones or something.
But once those UI switches are made, ... then what? It's creating a kind of "block in the prophetic visions of the future", so everyone scrambles for two years because Mobile Is Da Hotness, ... then what?
Are we just going to stare at each other in a kind of giant fishbowl meta-boredom having reached a point where there "isn't any innovation left"? Oh, they'll do small things, like add ons, and maybe "smart clothing" with GPS enhancements, etc etc, but after everyone finishes this big "Mobile or Die" push, it feels like it will be almost a letdown of "what do we do with ourselves now?"
Re:finalized? (Score:5, Insightful)
> When it's finalized THEN post it.
I think your missing the point of open development. Discussions like this happen all the time. A lot of proposals never see the light of day or have drastically changed when the source is finally pushed.
Re:Chrome? (Score:5, Insightful)
As a Firefox user, I see literally dozens of google Ads suggesting I install Chrome, or upgrade to a faster browsing experience, or other similar messages, every day. Google put popups to that effect on their search homepage. I'll hazard a guess that this bears some responsibility for market share decline. Some is no doubt due to perceptions that FF is slow/a memory hog in comparison to Chrome.
Neither of these factors will be affected by changing UI to copy your competitor. Firefox needs to carve out their own niche, and the seemingly deliberate activities to remove all discernible difference, and hence possible competitive advantage they have over their more highly resourced competitor, seems stupidly short sited.
Re:The beauty of Open Source. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No. Please Continue (Score:5, Insightful)
"that's where a large portion of the users are at,"
Really? Got any evidence for that?
"t only makes sense that people using your software across devices will at least want a consistent UI"
No it doesn't. What works on a 4 inch screen doesn't necessarily work on a 19 inch monitor and vice verca.
"because those are all a big distraction"
Having a button for "back" or "reload" or a "Tools" menu is not a distraction. Unless you have some sort of dyslexia.
Re:why people stuck to... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why strive for a "one size fits all" anyway ?
Yes, mobile devices are on the rise. Often with small (touch)screens where it makes sense to minimize control elements, in order not to clutter that screen.
At the same time, big screens aren't disappearing either. Browsing the web on a 40" TV at home isn't unheard of, maybe those screens are wall-size in a decade or so. And the average laptop / PC on a desk with mouse beside it, is yet another way to go about it.
The intelligent thing would be to realize that those devices & user experiences are different, and applications + their user interfaces should adjust accordingly. Or if that's too difficult, have different applications & different user interfaces for different devices. Like what has always been the case, really.
NOOOOO! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are all the software producers abandoning 30 years of desktop user interface improvements to make it more like mobile interfaces which are new and still developing, and by needs totally different. Just when they get it right and are just in need of the slightest refinements, they think it's time to make radical changes. Is this about improving the product or is it about keeping programers employed?
MOZILLA LISTEN!!! A browser should be so easy to use that it almost becomes transparent. It becomes that way by maintaining a nice user interface for a long time so use of the features becomes deeply ingrained habit. STOP CHANGING THINGS AROUND! PLEEEAAASE!!!
Re:The beauty of Open Source. (Score:5, Insightful)
You're kidding right ? never heard of extensions and themes ?
They keep stuffing more and more of firefox into the base when it should be handled by extensions.
Re:The beauty of Open Source. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because Chrome is paid for and developed by Google; and Firefox is paid for by...
Oh, never mind.
-dZ.
Re:The beauty of Open Source. (Score:4, Insightful)
You may think it better. Perhaps for your use-case it is. For mine it isn't. I occasionally try other browsers (FOSS only), and none have been as good as Firefox. (I will admit that Seamonkey was better, but it hasn't been properly maintained.)
My feeling is that it's impossible to design a single UI that works well on both tablets and desktops. I'm willing to be proven wrong, but so far all I've seen is UI's that appear to work equally poorly on both platforms.
Re:The beauty of Open Source. (Score:4, Insightful)
...You mean Gecko?
Dear Mozilla developers -- a brief wishrant (Score:4, Insightful)
Alright, one comment. A very brief comment.
No.
Firefox does not need its UI endlessly tweaked by a circle jerk of self-congratulatory programmers who rejoice at every spline and every pixel-level change. Firefox needs the following:
1. Bug fixes. There are a lot of them pending. Have you noticed? I have. It's not nearly as much as fun as playing with the UI, but it needs to be done. (Yes, I've helped. But I'm getting damn tired of writing extremely detailed, carefully researched bug reports that sit in the queue indefinitely.)
2. Security and privacy improvements. A substantial subset of the functionality of NoScript, AdBlock Plus, Better Privacy, Beef TACO, Disconnect, BlockSite, BugMeNot, ShareMeNot and oh yes, HTTPS Everywhere, needs to be IN THE BROWSER. Not an add-on. IN THE BROWSER. Hell, you have a budget: buy the technology if you have to, but get it in. Security and privacy are NOT add-ons, they're core functions. Make it happen.
3. Resource usage. Not everyone on this planet is wealthy enough to afford a new laptop every two years just to run a web browser. And make it possible for users to clamp memory footprint, CPU utilization, and other resources so that they don't find their web browser eating their system alive.
4. Standards compliance. I don't care if you think some of the standards suck -- I think they do too. Do it anyway.
5. Stop dumbing it down. THAT function should be in an add-on, call it "Training Wheels for Firefox".
6. If anyone suggests adding "social network" functions, please give my earnest sympathies to their surviving friends and family.
7. Respect Mah Authoritah! No automatic updates, no automatic checking for updates, nothing. (Why? Think about browser fingerprinting techniques and add-ons, and why some people really, REALLY don't want their browser to provide any clues to those who are doing DPI on the network they're connected through at the moment.)
8. Every icon in every panel needs to be set up as (a) icon only (b) text only or (c) icon and text. All of them. Because i'm getting damn tired of squinting at my 7" netbook screen trying to figure out WTF some squiggle means.
9. Get off my lawn!
10. Stop trying to out-Opera Opera, out-Chrome Chrome, and REALLY stop trying to out-IE IE. You have...had...a vision of a pretty good piece of software and somewhere around Firefox 4, you lost it. Stop. Go find it. Pick it up, dust it off, and tack it on the wall. Then pay attention to it.