UK Home Secretary Bans US Martial Arts Expert 440
Big Hairy Ian writes "An American expert in violent self-defense has been excluded from entering the UK by the Home Office. From the article: 'Tim Larkin tried to board a plane from his home in Las Vegas on Tuesday, but was given a UK Border Agency letter saying "his presence here was not conducive to the public good." Mr Larkin, who was due to host seminars, told the BBC the move was a "gross over-reaction." The Home Office said he was subject to an exclusion order. A spokeswoman said: "The home secretary will seek to exclude an individual if she considers that his or her presence in the UK is not conducive to the public good." Mr Larkin — who trained as a US Navy Seal — runs a company teaching combat to military and law enforcement clients in the United States.'"
UK (Score:2, Interesting)
Remember, this is the country where being "anti-social" is a crime. Yes, for real.
Different kind of anti-social (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Turn about is fair play. (Score:5, Interesting)
No kidding. This is a guy who was going to go to the UK to teach people how to KILL PEOPLE. (Really, read the article.)
The US, on the other hand, blocks people from entering the US for planning on having a good time as tourists in the US [slashdot.org].
Bit of a difference between the two, yes?
Theresa May is an idiot (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the same woman who, upon learning that border control was overloaded and relaxing passport checks for low risk cases at peak time, decided to solve the problem by firing the guy in charge and forcing checks to never be relaxed. Result: planes stacking up in the sky because the queues at border control were too long. Prime Minister summons her and gives her a right ass-kicking and now risk-based enforcement is back on the table.
It will be tempting for Slashdot posters to over-generalize from this case to try and make sweeping statements about the entire UK or British people (just as it's tempting to do the same about Americans when the US Govt does something retarded). But the core problem in this case really boils down to one woman and her arbitrary and inconsistent management of the borders.
Gotta love our militarized police force. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:In the UK self defense = racism, extremism (Score:0, Interesting)
No, I am inferring how the UK authorities think based on my understanding of their left-wing authoritarian mindset. In their eyes, minorities rioting is not that bad, but people defending themselves from rioting is dangerous. You are free to disagree, but to classify all forms of inference as "making shit up" is not very smart.
Re:Turn about is fair play. (Score:4, Interesting)
Turnabout isn't only fair play, in this particular case the UK was much nicer than the US needs to be:
The US rules for foreigners, like me, means that in order to legally enter the country I have to accept that the border control can force me to return, without having to site any reason whatsoever. I get to accept all the costs, and there is no appeal process.
This ex-SEAL actually got the courtesy of a denial well before entering his plane, and he even got a reason for it and enough time to appeal the process if he wanted.
T. /.) anonymously, because I'm afraid that even writing this could cause problems for me on future trips to the US.
PS. It is a sad fact that I am posting (for the first time on
Re:Turn about is fair play. (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a guy who was going to go to the UK to teach people how to kill people IN SELF-DEFENSE. (Really, read the article.)
... [T]he UK has a concept of minimum force. If you see a black guy in your neighbourhood and think he may be causing trouble you are not just allowed to kill him.
Absolutely. If you do, there are consequences that happen as a result of your choice.
As distinct from what seems to be happening here: if you think he may be causing trouble, you are not allowed to know how to stop him with fatal force should it become necessary. And to make sure you will be unable to, a government will pre-emptively stop a man from entering the country for attempting to provide you with that knowledge.
As similar approach would be terminating a life in the second trimester, on the grounds that it may grow up to commit a violent crime several decades later. That is a lack of minimum force of law, also termed "overreaching" or just plain "usurpation" [of political authorities by the agents of government]. Then again I'm not sure from where the political authority is considered to derive within the UK; perhaps whatever the PM or monarch says, goes.
Re:Turn about is fair play. (Score:5, Interesting)
In the late '80s, I was threatened with being turned away from Canada, and having the RCMP and FBI take turns performing full body cavity searches because, while applying for my 4th work visa in a span of 6 months (at that time, I was required to apply each time I traveled up there for the type of work I did), I was asked if there was anyone who would like me to not enter Canada and I responded "just a frat brother back in the USA who knows I am going to take his ex-GF to dinner when I hop over to the GTA."
Lessons learned:
A) don't crack jokes with Canadian immigration officials.
B) Clear customs and immigration in Toronto (which I mostly did for the next 15 years) and then drive to Ottawa, because Ottawa officials have much bigger sticks up their butts (and the Korean food not far from the Toronto airport is really good).
C) After calming the situation down, when asked by said immigration official if, because I work at Motorola, I could get her 1950's vintage Motorola console TV repaired at a discount, do not respond with "Are you asking me for a bribe?" nor the 3 or 4 other responses that went across my mind.
Looking back, I am still kind of surprised I made it to work the next day.
Re:Inciting violence (Score:5, Interesting)
The irony is that good martial arts training makes you less likely to cause somebody serious injury, the level of force you need to defend yourself actually drops. I could (and have) defend myself against somebody bigger than myself, if I hadn't had training then I might be tempted to punch them in the face, which can kill much more easily than people think.
Re:Different kind of anti-social (Score:5, Interesting)
Indeed, very specific, come to think of it, what other country, maybe except of China, could you think of intervening in case of loud discussions in the streets with your neighbour. Begging, drinking alcohol in the streets, making noise, driving for fun, lighting fireworks might sometimes be an annoyance, but making them punishable?
The UK seems to be some kind of heaven for a lower middleclass mindset, restricting everyone to only the most bland activities. They really must hate creativity there, which tends to go with a certain amount of chaos.
well try having to put up with a pair of noisy bastards that play UBER loud music at all hours of the day and night when you want to get your baby daughter to sleep.
that is anti-social behaviour here in Edinburgh and all i had to do after trying to reason with the morons was phone the Sound Enforcement Officers here at Edinburgh Council... they came out , checked the sound levels and then gave them a warning... of course the morons didn't heed the warning and kept going anyway.
then the sound enforcement officers issued them with a fine.... and even that didn't work to then they went in and used the full force of the legislation against them and confiscated all "amplified sound equipment" in the apartment they were in (directly above mine) and thus no more computers,hi-fi, tv.. etc anything with a speaker.. BOOM gone..... after that my little girl could actually get some sleep. she was barely even 6 months old at the time.....
Re:UK (Score:5, Interesting)
US banned Cat Stevens, so you don't even need to be anti-social to be banned.
He was suspected of having ties to terrorists, this was the right decision. Do you propose that because he's famous they should have ignored this and just rolled the dice?
Re:Inciting violence (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously I'm not going to recommend this technique for somebody who isn't trained, and a person who doesn't feel confident trying that is much more likely to strike them with a fist/hand/chair, and that's more likely to cause injury.
Any good martial arts training will emphasise the "RLF Technique", or "running like fuck". This is the primary form of self defence, I only took the guy on because he was swinging a large shard of glass around in a crowded street and putting other people in danger. If you want a legal defence for taking physical actio the first thing you'll have to explain is your reason for not running away.