Jaguar and Land Rover Angle For Production In China 141
First time accepted submitter ourlovecanlastforeve writes "Those of you still hanging on to Jaguar and Land Rover as the last vestiges of the truly British automobile in the States may find yourselves grasping at straws as Chery announces a nearly two billion dollar joint effort with the auto brand to move production to Changsu in China." Anyone still hanging on to that idea might also be interested to learn that Jaguar and Land Rover are subsidiaries of India's Tata, maker of the low-priced Nano.
Re:Who buys automobiles based on nationality? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's interesting that you picked Mercedes. In the last Consumer Reports, in terms of over all brand quality, they placed Mercedes below Ford!
The other German cars makers are pretty much in the middle of the pack and after all their troubles, the Japanese still take just about all the tops spots - and Toyota is still there.
Buy smart; buy Japanese.
And as far as parts are concerned, there's only a handful of big parts suppliers in the World: Bosch, VDO, Walbro, and a couple of others that I can't remember their names. It may seem that they're are more, but they are more than likely owned by the big guys.
And ALL of them are under HUGE pressure to reduce costs (i.e make things cheaper - more plastic).
Ugh! (Score:4, Interesting)
Tata Motors [wikipedia.org] is a subsidiary of the Tata group [wikipedia.org]. The latter is worth at least USD100B which makes it larger than BMW. The former and its subsidiaries also make everything from lorries, buses, and heavy lifting equipment to a number of other road cars besides the Nano. The Nano is in many ways considered a relative failure in India and it's their other cars which are more popular.
While export might be a possibility, the article clearly mentions that the Chinese domestic market alone demands 40000 imported JLR models which will very likely increase dramatically when they are produced locally and sold with cheaper price tags. A little googling would have also revealed [liverpooldailypost.co.uk] that China is fast becoming the company's largest market and that JLR is expanding its factories in England and hiring more people.
If anybody needed an example of FUD, the OP would be an apt candidate.
Re: epitome of globalization (Score:1, Interesting)
"The Mini Cooper is an example of a brand redone, but bettered, by BMW."
Rubbish, The "Mini Cooper" as reimagined by BMW is a fat slug designed for Bavarians and the US market.
Compared with the Issigonis Mini, its an appaling 21st century lump, with the style and visual appeal of a road accident. Like the current "Fiat 500" its an insult to the vehicle it allegedly draws its inspiration from. Here's a thought for you. I followed a BMW "Mini" yesterday. Between it and me was an original, 44 year old Mini. If the BMW had stopped suddenly, its odds on that the Mini following it could have ended up INSIDE the BMW without any problems. Ok a bit farfetched for a BMW "Cooper", but someone DID fit a Mini bodyshell inside the most bloated BMW "Mini" of all, the Mini Countryman.
Mini comparison: BMW vs Morris [autoexpress.co.uk]
It really does make you weep.
Brands are meaningless. (Score:3, Interesting)
I was shopping for a car last night, and while reading stickers was struck that the Honda Pilot actually has more domestic parts than the Dodge Durango, and not by a little bit. I knew that this was at least potentially true, but was really struck when I saw it on the label.
I don't really care who owns the company, because they're just fat cats (and can starve for all I care.) I care who actually gets the middle class jobs involved in auto manufacturing.
Re: epitome of globalization (Score:5, Interesting)
China will give you the build quality you ask for. People go to China to build cheaply, so "cheap" is the most important parameter. Then they get all confused when "cheap" (cost) ends up being "cheap" (quality).
Very true, and this is not just for tech gadgets. Pretty much the entire astronomy industry is currently manufactured in China. Hell I've read Celestron is owned by a Chinese company. Celestron, Meade, Orion pretty much have all their equipment made in China, and to call any of their equipment unreliable or poor could not be further from the truth.
The problem with working with the Chinese is battling through the bullshit. One of our engineers tried to buy a valve from China one day. When he asked about certification documents, the company replied with something along the lines of, "What certification would you like us to fake for you?" in only slightly less obvious words. I had a similar experience with water filters. I've never seen a TUV certificate use numbers like 100% on anything, yet the certificate applied with this "TUV certified" filter was covered with 100% numbers. Yes it was cheap.
You get what you pay for. This applies to consumers and to businesses looking for a manufacturing plant, and China can supply both.
Re:Who buys automobiles based on nationality? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've certainly heard of people who seek cars made in a certain country, but does anyone actually value this more than whether their car is a piece of shit?
I've owned two American cars in my life. A 1988 Pontiac Firefly, which was basic transportation, and very good on gas. I was driving it in high school, and for my limited means at the time, it made sense. It's also a car that can't be made any more, because it would never pass modern safety standards. Those same safety standards would add a significant amount of weight to the car, and it would never get the mileage that it used to, even if they were to remake it.
The second American car I owned was a 2007 Chev Aveo. That was complete unadulterated shit. It was a terrible ride, it was not as good on gas as they advertised, it was uncomfortable, it handled like you were driving through a lake, in all, it was a terrible car. For the time that I owned it, it was in for several major repairs, including one where I was without car for 2 weeks... the dealer fixed me up with a Pontiac Grand Prix as a loaner for that 2 week period. That car had a better interior, but it was still low quality/plasticky, it still handled like you were driving through a lake, and it was even worse on gas.
Contrast that with the numerous Japanese cars I have owned... I have never had a major repair on any of the Subarus I have owned, despite having more than a million km's between them. My 2011 Impreza is immensely better in ride quality and handling than any American car I've ever driven, and it actually gets the gas mileage that they advertised for the Aveo, even though it's got all-wheel drive and I'm not even trying to drive it efficiently. And it's not just Subaru that I can say that about... in my family, we have owned Honda and Toyota cars that we can say the same about.
While there are certainly European brands that I would buy if I could get them here, I would never consider buying an American car until the Americans figure out how to make a car that goes around corners. In the mean time, I have never had a bad experience with a Japanese car, and would definitely recommend them to anybody looking for a car. It's not that individual American cars which are good don't exist, it's that most of the "good" American cars are actually European or Japanese designed/built and just rebadged.