US "the Enemy" Says Dotcom Judge 469
First time accepted submitter Flere Imsaho writes "During the NetHui Internet conference last week, the NZ judge to hear the Dotcom extradition case was speaking on the Trans Pacific Partnership agreement and how the U.S. entertainment industry is pushing to make region code hacking illegal, when he said 'Under TPP and the American Digital Millennium copyright provisions you will not be able to do that, that will be prohibited ... if you do you will be a criminal — that's what will happen. Even before the 2008 amendments it wasn't criminalized. There are all sorts of ways this whole thing is being ramped up and if I could use Russell [Brown's] tweet from earlier on: we have met the enemy and he is [the] U.S.'"
Re:And the U.S. law is YOUR law now too (Score:0, Insightful)
What does MS have to do with the DMCA? The DMCA is primarily for the entertainment industry.
Then buy NZ music (Score:2, Insightful)
The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that this is normally a forum to bash **AA, but the fact still remains that Kim Dotcom made his fortune by providing a service that was used to circumvent paying for content. Never did he even attempt to stop this illegal activity, and at times, promoted it. People like to talk about how the rich make there fortune off the backs of the working class... this guy is your poster child.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Certainly he's a shady character, but last time I checked, this guy actually wanted to pay the artists [techcrunch.com]
Dotcom described Megabox as Megaupload’s iTunes competitor, which would even eventually offer free premium movies via Megamovie, a site set to launch in 2012. This service would take Megaupload from being just a digital locker site to a full-fledged player in the digital content game.
The kicker was Megabox would cater to unsigned artists and allow anyone to sell their creations while allowing the artist to retain 90% of the earnings. Or, artists could even giveaway their songs and would be paid through a service called Megakey. “Yes that’s right, we will pay artists even for free downloads.
Stop using the word "US" (Score:2, Insightful)
We read "US" as "us", same as "we". It's the United States of America, not the United States.
And by the way, American means someone from America, not someone from the USA.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
I know it's popular to sound all level-headed and point out the law, but many of us think copyright law desperately needs an overhaul. I, for one, would like to see anything released over 10 years ago go into the public domain. Then, much of the Megaupload activity would've been legal.
It's all about who you know. (Score:4, Insightful)
Dotcom is a comparatively little guy who had his own service and when the sh-t hit the fan didn't have anybody else in his corner. His antics and courtroom theatrics aside, what separates him from Youtube? An 800 pound gorilla named Google. People upload copyrighted material to Youtube every day but Google somehow makes it all right.
Is Google more responsive to takedown notices than megaupload? Is there more infringing material on one service vs. the other?
My opinion is Megaupload's biggest problem in the end is they never made friends in high places.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Providing a service that he got paid for is not making your money off the backs of the working class, weather it is illegal or not.
Dismantling companies and peoples pensions for profit, paying low wages, company towns, and monopolies are taking advantage of the working class.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is why he is the perfect bogeyman for this suit that will serve as a precedent to make online file storage illegal. But many overlook that when their judgement is clouded by their (however justified) personal dislike of Dotcom.
Re:Then buy NZ music (Score:5, Insightful)
Or we could have a license-burning bonfire. That would be fun. I'll bring the marshmallows.
Re:Then buy NZ music (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, what, you were hoping to turn music into a form of property? That's cute.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:3, Insightful)
I know that this is normally a forum to bash **AA, but the fact still remains that Kim Dotcom made his fortune by providing a service that was used to circumvent paying for content.
And the recording industry made their fortune by providing a product that was used to circumvent paying for artists playing their music live.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that this is normally a forum to bash **AA, but the fact still remains that Kim Dotcom made his fortune by providing a service that was used to circumvent paying for content.
Sop do DVD and Blu-ray writer manufacturers, and blank media manufacturers. Also HD manufacturers. Also all Internet service providers. All these are used to "circumvent paying for content."
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
>>> Kim Dotcom made his fortune by providing a service that was used to circumvent paying for content.
If he's such a horrible person, why was he able to get ~50 top-of-the-charts singers (and musicians and audio engineers) to perform a Megaupload song for him? If he really was hurting these people, they would have refused to do the ad. But instead they helped write, sing, and produce it.
I suspect your attack is without merit. Dotcom no more wanted to hurt people than does Googlemail or the Amazon Cloud (which is also used to share content w/o payment). If anybody is guilty here it's the U.S. government for overstepping its legal authority. Last I checked its juris diction ends at the border or the 14 mile oceanic limit.
Illegal but not necessarily wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to be treating legality in the area of copyright as a natural law of physics and carved on tablets of stone. Well it's neither, and everything is in a state of flux..
The law in this area was never subject to public approval in any country, and it runs totally contrary to how the VAST majority of people seem to feel about it when asked. Instead it was developed through intense lobbying of politicians by content creators in a completely one-sided manner. What's more, much of it was developed out of the public eye and turned into law through a process of direct bribery, particularly in the US where bribery is legal and called "campaign contributions".
So while you're factually correct in calling it "illegal" by US law, it's only "illegal" because this totally corrupt and non-democratic system has defined "illegal" to suit itself. It may be illegal in your country, but it's not illegal everywhere, and it's regarded as "wrong" by only a small percentage of the world's population.
Things aren't as clearcut as you make out.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
"I know that this is normally a forum to bash **AA, but the fact still remains that Kim Dotcom made his fortune by providing a service that was used to circumvent paying for content."
Right, and all car manufacturers made their fortunes by providing cars that were used to break the speed limit, all gun manufacturers made their fortunes by providing guns that were used to kill, and Apple made it's fortunes by making media players that were used to play pirated MP3s.
Similarly neither Ford, nor gun manufacturers, nor Apple have done anything to stop illegal speeding, illegal killing, or illegal downloading, and at times have "promoted" it.
Honestly, your argument extends to many industries, as the whole data loss fiasco has proven, Megaupload had many legitimate customers. The point being that the service he was providing was not illegal, not any more so than the industries mentioned above. The problem is that his industry is one that:
a) The US is spending a fuckton of money attacking at the behest of corporate interests
and:
b) Not as big as the likes of Apple, Google, Microsoft, or Ford, or whoever to have had the money and lobbying power to protect themselves
Re:And the U.S. law is YOUR law now too (Score:5, Insightful)
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Land of the Free
Home of the Brave
Repeat the phrase "Land of the free, home of the brave" with a straight face. Now, repeat until some one has to pick you up, off the floor with the laughter cramps preventing you from remaining upright.
Re:Then buy NZ music (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't buy US produced music anyway. Its not like you make it all or far from it. The UK makes better music!
Re:With enemies like that... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, blah blah blah, he registered a US domain name. If we start using the Internet as a vehicle for applying our out-of-control legal code in other countries, we are just going to make more enemies.
Definition of enemy (Score:4, Insightful)
Suppose that some arab country starts accusing and claiming extraditions of women all around the world because them commited adultery. Or that Sweden do the same with all men all around the world that had sex with a sleeping woman. Or a country with a corrupt government, where shady men or private companies pushes laws for criminalize people that drinks coke or read certain books, that exports that laws to all the world and claims extradition for people breaking that laws elsewhere.
That is what is doing USA, and that is what other governments are letting them to do while signing "cooperating treaties". I suppose that yes, the enemy is us, or at least USA and the people in your government that signed that kind of treaty.
Opportunities (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Stop using the word "US" (Score:4, Insightful)
And by the way, American means someone from America, not someone from the USA.
Please, present me a single person from Canada or Mexico describing himself as "an American". Better, find me a single person from Brazil or Peru that presents himself as "an American". Furthermore, per definition you are correct, but the word "American" is also defined as a citizen of the USA.
Taking into account usage and accepting the fact that this usage definition of "American" is correct, I'd simply say that you are wrong.
Re:And the U.S. law is YOUR law now too (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, the higher the price of oil gets, the more domestic manufacturing we're going to see, regardless of the difference in labor costs.
Those behemoth Ultra Large Container Vessels [wikipedia.org] consume an enormous amount of fuel bringing their shit from Asia to the U.S., and short of discovering some huge untapped energy source, I don't see that being sustainable at all in the long term. To be honest, though, I think we're probably going to end up at war with China before that really becomes an issue over China's stockpiling of Rare-Earth elements [wikipedia.org], preceded by sanctions and ever-increasing limits on Chinese imports that will help to encourage domestic production.
Re:remember that raise you didn't get? (Score:5, Insightful)
Show me SOMETHING that is made inthe USA.
Ford? Nope China parts, Assembled in canada and mexico.
GM? as china as you can get.
Honda? Yes they are more american than any american car brand, but parts are still China
Computer? China
Beer? China... for the cans. Your all american Budwiser is in a China made aluminum.
China, china, china. NOTHING you buy in a supermarket or big box store is made inthe USA.
Want USA made? local small artisan or maker. is your only choice. What that does is makes my Coffee Cup go from $3.95 to $16.99. Any my glass drinking glasses, I cant get the $1.99 each china junk. I have to pay a glass artist $22.50 each for them.
I am fine with it, but all the "BUY AMERICAN" morons dont walk the walk but they shoot off their mouths.
BUY AMERICAN means you never set foot in ANY big box store. You buy your clothing from a local tailor. You ready to pay $35.00 for a t-shirt that a seamstress will make custom for you? Want new Silverware? $15.00 a piece from your local Metal Artist.
The biggest problem is these BUY AMERICAN loudmouths also ride Harley Davidson bikes, which are mostly China parts. The Loudmouths wont do what they say. It's why Harley's are all china parts and soon to be BUILT in china. It's why Indian went out of business. Because these LOUDMOUTHS dont do what they say others should do.
They wont pay the cost if buying all american.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I do think the US is falling apart. This is of course entirely subjective and based on my feeling of the trajectory of events in the last 20 years in the US. I don't live in the US, though I am 'involved' in the US being in a profession that is very international and am affected by US systems.
From the outside, irrationality seems to dominate US public opinion. US laws and rhetoric seem to drift further and further from ground realities. Especially so when concerning the nature of digital information, environmental issues , issues on religion and so on. And if anything can be considered to be the major sociological topics of our generation, I think the internet, environment and religion are the top three.
I may be - in fact hope to be, completely wrong in my pessimism.
Re:And the U.S. law is YOUR law now too (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget:
Sharing is stealing.
Re:And the U.S. law is YOUR law now too (Score:4, Insightful)
US oil is shit... it can still have many uses, like making roads, but the high quality oil is in the middle east. If you want a efficient oil refinery, you will use better oil.
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
10 years is probably too short
Why? Justify that assertion. Is it not the case that the vast majority of profits for the vast majority of copyrighted works get made in the first 5 years after release, let alone the first 10? How is it a greater public good to help the odd outlier that is still going strong after 50 years make money, as opposed to letting many millions of people enjoy quality works for free once they've made a good profit (if they're ever going to)?
Re:remember that raise you didn't get? (Score:2, Insightful)
"Show me SOMETHING that is made inthe USA."
Every bit of medical cannabis I use is USA-produced, typically locally, at that.
I manufacture hydroponics systems. Plenty of plastic forming companies here in the USA.
The alcohol I consume is USA-made, right to the can.
ALL of my guitar equipment is USA-made, excepting my Japanese Jackson, and including my hand-built effects pedals.
What weak argument were you trying to make, again?
Re:The enemy among us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine the reaction in the US, if a US citizen was being investigated by a foreign government - say Russia - and the Russians sent the FSB over to shut down a US business, seize its assets and arrest that citizen prior to him being tried.
Thats what its like to live in another country that, through fear/intimidation - or massive bribery - allows the US to run roughshod over its own laws and basically do whatever the fuck it wants to whomever the fuck it wants because that individual is seen as a threat by some powerful US corporation or organization. If it was a rare occurrence it would still be wrong, but not much concern but its happening a lot more these days it seems.
Re:remember that raise you didn't get? (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite honestly, the idea of "buy local" in a global economy doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. What's more "American" -- a car built by a Japanese company (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) but built in an American plant, or an "American" car that's built in Mexico? I won't even discuss how Chrysler is actually Daimler (German) - Chrysler (American). Or consider Eric Buell Racing's Buell 1100RS motorcycle? That's an American company, but it uses a Rotax engine (Austrian). How many American cars have Bosch components (German) or ECU's and sensors made in Taiwan? The boundaries get pretty grey, and it becomes difficult, if not downright impossible, to determine what is "American" and what is "imported" even if you want to.
Re:remember that raise you didn't get? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And the U.S. law is YOUR law now too (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:remember that raise you didn't get? (Score:3, Insightful)
Check out this article [fool.com] which debunks some myths.
Misconception: Most of what Americans spend their money on is made in China.
Fact: Just 2.7% of personal consumption expenditures go to Chinese-made goods and services. 88.5% of U.S. consumer spending is on American-made goods and services
Re:That'll work fine in peacetime (Score:4, Insightful)
IF it looked like we were going down, you bet your ass we will launch nukes at you.
Yeah, about that foreign policy of "looking and acting like a crazy guy wearing an explosive vest and a loud ticking detonator". You guys might want to get that looked at sometime. It doesn't always endear you even to your friends.
Admittedly the USA is still - barely - the nicest of the paranoid meth-crazed explosive-vest-wearing gang-bangers on the global block... except for the occasional drunken bouts of violent rage... but that's not exactly a career path you really want to aspire to, y'know? Yes, you're still better than North Korea. But you have a bigger gun, and you're still swigging from the hip flask.
Re:And the U.S. law is YOUR law now too (Score:3, Insightful)
In some ways, perhaps. Certainly the availability and variety of things like food and material goods would be amazing to an ancient king (quality is a different story, that's more hit or miss). On the other hand, how many vassals do you have?