US Navy Cruiser and Submarine Collide 236
An anonymous reader writes "Despite billions of dollars in advanced electronics, radar, and sonar it seems the Navy needs to install backup cameras on their boats. 'The Pentagon said late Saturday that it is investigating why a Navy submarine collided with an Aegis cruiser during routine operations at an undisclosed location.' According to ABC, 'the two ships were participating in a “group sail” along with another vessel. The three ships were participating in an anti-submarine exercise in preparation for an upcoming deployment as part of the strike group for the aircraft carrier USS Harry S Truman."
Better info on Navy Times (Score:5, Interesting)
Navy Times [navytimes.com] has better information. The collision occurred off Jacksonville, FL. The sub was surfacing to periscope depth when it was hit by the cruiser. The cruiser's bow sonar dome was damaged. No injuries.
"A collision at sea can ruin your whole day". It's usually a career-ending event for a Naval officer. The captain of the USS Essex, which had a collision with a fleet oiler during a replenishment operation in May 2012, was removed from command. Even though the collision was apparently due to a steering malfunction, the captain is responsible.
Subs like to mess around (Score:5, Interesting)
A friend who was a coastie told a story about a sub messing with them:
The guy watching the radar grabbed the first officer because he was confused. He was seeing an occasional weak reading from behind them, a real small return like a little boat or something, fairly close, but when he'd look there was nothing out there. It was daytime, plenty of visibility, all that. It was inconsistent, not always there. Nothing seemed to be wrong with the radar. The XO saw this too, so they grabbed my friend and had him continually monitor aft to see what was going on.
The answer? A sub goofing around. It would raise up part of its sail, wait until it got hit with the radar (they have ESM antennas) and then dive. When it came back up again, my friend flashed Morse at it with a light and the sub then surfaced and came over to say hi.
It wasn't an exercise or anything, just a sub screwing around. Was it against Navy regs? I dunno, probably, but the sub was doing it anyways and it wasn't like anyone got in trouble. Everyone had a laugh and the sub went on its way.
Re:Basic seamanship (Score:5, Interesting)
Head on collision slowed down as much as possible damages the bow sonar dome and possibly the first 2 hull plating, though the triangular shape would help strengthen this section of hull so damage to the cruiser is limited also the triangular shape is sloped to push objects down under the boat (usually it's water being pushed out of the way). So a few days to weeks in dry dock.
If one starts to turn instead and still hits the submarine it now scrapes down the side of boat putting dents in the hull plating as it bounces along it. Now it's weeks to years in dry dock as they replace half the hull.
The sub probably wouldn't get off so lucky.
I expect commendations for the actions of the cruiser crew as the submarine was at periscope depth and therefore only a shadow (possibly) and the periscope above the water to detect it by and they took fast and appropriate action.
Anyway 1) Why on earth didn't the sub crash dive when the sonar operator heard the noisy screws go full back? and 2) What the hell was the sub doing surfacing to periscope depth right ahead of another ship and that close to it?
Re:Isn't jamming gear just a stronger transmitter? (Score:5, Interesting)
Jamming is basically having a bigger signal than the other guy in relation to the location of the receiver. It's deliberate interference, or what hams call QRM.
Having a bigger signal than the other guy is how a sat relay got hijacked in the 80s to transmit a foul mouthed Max Headroom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj1mUk04_ho [youtube.com]
They still haven't found him, in spite of the fact that only a few places had uplinks powerful enough to hijack a bird. It had to be commercial broadcast or military. My bet is military.
Taking over someone's AM radio is trivial.
Just transmit at any AM radio at 455KHz.
It's the IF frequency. Any and all tuning gets converted to that frequency and then the signal is stripped of its carrier and amplified.
For FM, the IF is 10.7Mhz. The antenna is smaller and easier to build. The same thing still applies. Overwhelm the IF and you can say anything to the listener no matter where he tunes.
Back in the cold war, Voice of America would get jammed by Soviet bloc nations. VOA still gets jammed in N. Korea and other places. It's doubtful you'd be allowed a tunable shortwave reciever in N. Korea these days, though.
--
BMO
Re:Uh... (Score:5, Interesting)
Then it's epic #fail on the part of the sub for not knowing where its target is. If this had been a real emergency, said sub would've been sunk.
As a former submariner, you are essentially correct here.
It is the submarine's responsibility to not surface/come shallow in front of a hazard (ship)
Unless you are snorting in a stovepipe (reserved area for the submarine) the ships pretty much have right of way. If the sub is in some sort of trouble, they are supposed to launch a red flare and call out on the underwater telephone (gertrude).
In the second cited article, the boat's periscope was sighted ahead of the Destroyer:
The Navy official says that at approximately 3:30 p.m. the bridge watch aboard the San Jacinto saw the submarine Montpelier rise to periscope depth about 100 to 200 yards ahead of them. The bridge ordered an “all back,” but still collided with the sub.
That's pretty close, I know some of my Navy's turbine ships can stop from cruising speed in about 1.5 times the ship length, the USS San Jacinto is a Ticonderoga class cruiser which is 173m length, which is 189 yards, which means they didn't have the time to stop.
When I was in boats, especially when we were working with/against surface vessels, at Periscope Depth we either kept a continuous all round look, or an intermittent look depending on the proximity of vessels on our plot. Since the periscope was sighted, Montpelier had just come up and was taking their first look, or really botched their periscope drill. Now, before you come up to periscope depth, you certainly resolve your plot to make sure that no one will be close when you do come out of your safe depth. With the limited details given, I have to put the blame on the submarine in this case. If there are mitigating circumstances, then I would be happy to change my mind.
Re:Two more questions for you re the CO and the OD (Score:5, Interesting)
The Greenville was pure stupidity. That was what was called a "Family Cruise". There is a maintenance requirement to do an emergency blow every now and again to make sure all the bits and parts work. It is also a hell of a fun ride. I did one of those and we had wives, kids and girlfriends on board. The procedure should have been surface transit out to one of the designated operating area's. Submerge, do some angles and dangles have lunch and let everyone mill about, hang out with the crew and then get ready to do the blow, do it and then surface transit back to port.
The procedure should have been: Come up to PD, and have a good long look around and the course you intend to perform and make sure there was nothing withing quite a few miles. Then back down. Make an announcement then perform the operation. My guess is that they got distracted and failed to notice the fishing boat and the fuck up ensued.
As to your other question. It happens quickly. From the moment the OD gives the order to come to PD it takes less then a minute. You don't want to fuck around. A submarine in the transition zone is VERY vulnerable since you are in the depth zone where deep draft tankers and container ships can just flat out cut you in half. You want to get the scope above the surface quickly so you can actually see what is out there.
As to quick action to abort that operation.. Remember your basic motion equations and inertia. You get that much steel moving in a direction and it takes quite a bit of time to make it suddenly go in the opposite direction.