Free Online Education Unwelcome In Minnesota

An anonymous reader sends this quote from the Chronicle of Higher Education: "[Minnesota's] Office of Higher Education has informed the popular provider of massive open online courses, or MOOC's, that Coursera is unwelcome in the state because it never got permission to operate there. It's unclear how the law could be enforced when the content is freely available on the Web, but Coursera updated its Terms of Service to include the following caution: 'Notice for Minnesota Users: Coursera has been informed by the Minnesota Office of Higher Education that under Minnesota Statutes (136A.61 to 136A.71), a university cannot offer online courses to Minnesota residents unless the university has received authorization from the State of Minnesota to do so. If you are a resident of Minnesota, you agree that either (1) you will not take courses on Coursera, or (2) for each class that you take, the majority of work you do for the class will be done from outside the State of Minnesota.' Tricia Grimes, a policy analyst for the state's Office of Higher Education, said letters had been sent to all postsecondary institutions known to be offering courses in Minnesota."

State legislature, huh?

[crazyjj]

I suspect there is a lot more to this story than anyone in the universities or legislature would ever admit publicly.

But I suspect the real impetus here is that the state legislators don't want anyone coming into their state without having to lobby (aka bribe) them first. Every state university has to come to them once a year with hat-in-hand, and they sure don't want anyone bypassing this system by coming in from out of state without paying their largesse. The patron expects his coin before you do business here, citizen.

Or

[Anonymous Coward]

But I suspect the real impetus here is that the state legislators don't want anyone coming into their state without having to lobby (aka bribe) them first. Every state university has to come to them once a year with hat-in-hand, and they sure don't want anyone bypassing this system by coming in from out of state without paying their largesse. The patron expects his coin before you do business here, citizen.

Or they're sick and tired of fake online universities charging their citizens or occupying peoples' time for degrees that aren't worth shit. Total nanny state action but your accusations of bribery are completely without merit or citation. Do you know what accreditation is? Why aren't you accusing accredited universities of paying a local authority?

Re:State legislature, huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Man! All you "government conspiracy" types! If the world were managed by all these very clever and calculating individuals, even if they were as mildly evil as you suggest, things would be much better. The truth is almost certainly that preexisting legislation simply does not make sense in the current modern context. It's ineptitude, not evil collusion.

Re:Or

[sqlrob]

So you're saying the degree that CourseRA offers isn't worth the electrons it's written with?

Oh, wait, they don't offer one.

Re:Common requirement

[SJHillman]

Given that it's non-accredited and doesn't give you a degree or anything official, how is it really any different than any article on the Internet? Does YouTube need permission from each state because they have educational videos on a variety of subjects?

Re:Or

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Coursera doesn't give out degrees. It's a topic-oriented class room where you can pick and choose what you want to learn. I don't believe they even give out certificates of completion, just a smack on the ass with a wink if you pass.

Re:I'm sure Michele Bachmann is outraged!

[Required Snark]

Yep, if Bachmann and her type are going to remain in power then they have to keep the population (i.e. peasants) as dumb as a box full of rocks.

Re:And post it on YouTube as a warning

[MickyTheIdiot]

Minnesota institutions have the right to not recognize credits from any university they choose to ignore. That's where it should stop. They don't have the right to tell someone not to read or learn something...

Donations aren't Always Bribes

[geoffrobinson]

Political donations are often considered bribes. That's very often the wrong understanding.

Much of the time they are donations to people who agree with you, but we just presume corruption.

But when corruption does exist, it's usually an extortion payment and the cost of doing business. We complain about businesses, but in reality if the government wants to crush a corporation or an individual that person or group of people are toast.

If you want to get the money out of politics, get the politics out of money.

Re:Huh?

[SJHillman]

They're not saying colleges can't use Courseera, they're saying no one in MN can use it. The issue stems from the fact that Coursera is free and doesn't offer degrees - making it little different than watching HowTo videos on YouTube.

Re:State legislature, huh?

[jythie]

I actually suspect it is an accreditation issue or a consumer protection one. Secondary education institutions generally go through a process to show that they are not diploma mills preying on people, and some states are better then others at cracking down on the practice. Since they invoke the word 'university' (which, like doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc, is not something you can just call yourself in an official capacity) they probably trigged a consumer protection law.

Re:Or

[Anonymous Coward]

Or they're sick and tired of fake online universities charging their citizens or occupying peoples' time for degrees that aren't worth shit.

A fake online university would be fraud, in any state. Thus, that argument is irrelevant.
Coursera is free, as in no charge. Thus, that argument is also irrelevant.
They don't offer accredited degrees. Thus, that argument is irrelevant.

So what we have left with is that you think the State should be in charge of making sure you use your time for worthwhile pursuits. And that any knowledge not backed by a state board certified degree is not worthwhile.

Re:Or

[jythie]

I suspect if they actually sat down with the state things would be fine, but for the moment they throw around the word 'university' and that has accreditation implications. It is a bit like going to someone who claims to be a doctor who will do exams, but then points out that they can not actually write referrals or prescribe meds because they are not a doctor, thus they shouldn't need a license to practice. It could probably be sorted out with the state pretty easily but, by default, if it walks like a goose but talks like a duck, anti-fraud regulation will probably treat it like a duck unless it shows it isn't one.

Re:Donations aren't Always Bribes

[fustakrakich]

We assume corruption because we built a system that depends on and rewards it. It is corrupt by design, not by accident. Voters have to be 'bribed' into voting for the guy who makes the most outrageous promises, and that takes money. So, at this point money and politics are integral, they are one, entirely inseparable.

Ignorance is a non-issue here

[betterunixthanunix]

Do Coursera's courses actually educate students? Do they educate students at least as well as classes at an accredited university?

The answers are, "Nobody knows" and "Nobody knows." Minnesota residents are not forbidden from visiting Coursera; Minnesota's schools are forbidden from using Coursera in lieu of classroom instruction.

Re:State legislature, huh?

[omnichad]

Well it has something to do with not selling nor having degrees. What's the proper channel for posting free information online?

In a sane world...

[SecurityGuy]

Coursera's answer should simply be "We're not operating in Minnesota. Our servers are in $PLACE. Minnesota has no jurisdiction in $PLACE. Have a nice day."

Re:Or

[1s44c]

Except Coursera doesn't give out degrees. It's a topic-oriented class room where you can pick and choose what you want to learn. I don't believe they even give out certificates of completion, just a smack on the ass with a wink if you pass.

Unless Coursera are offering highly biased education or in some way poisoning the minds of those that take their courses the people that are opposing them are opposing the basic human right to knowledge.

Any law or rule that blatantly wrong should be ignored.

Re:Or

[Anonymous Coward]

If you make the requirements of the class Coursera does actually give you a certificate that you completed it. It's really nearly useless though to anyone but yourself, and it's certainly not counted as College credit, nor is there a degree potential. The education is actually about the knowledge, not the paper, which is really how it should be.