USPS Discriminates Against 'Atheist' Merchandise 1121
fish waffle writes "Suspecting that their strongly branded 'Atheist' products may be treated differently by more religiously-oriented postal regions, Kickstarter success Atheist Shoes conducted an experiment. They sent 178 packages to 89 people in different parts of the U.S., each person receiving one package prominently branded as 'Atheist' merchandise, and one not. The results: packages with the atheist label were nearly 10 times more likely to be 'lost,' and took on average 3 days longer to show up when they did. Control experiments were also done in Europe and Germany — it's definitely a USPS problem."
"it's definitely a USPS problem."? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sounds more like a USA problem than a USPS problem, this being an outlier of religious beliefs among wealthy nations [pewglobal.org]. Atheist Shoes needed to send packages via FedEx and UPS in the same way to actually test this, and apparently didn't.
Re:More testing required (Score:5, Interesting)
As well if the word "Islam" has a greater or lesser effect than "Atheist".
Re:correlation (Score:5, Interesting)
Now repeat the experiment with labels saying things like
'porn'
'lots of money inside'
'this package contains: newest iPhone'
I'm really interested in the outcome.
New theory: people love atheist products, so they get snatched more often by the postman.
Tracking devices... (Score:5, Interesting)
It would be really interesting to do this experiment with tracking devices that logged their GPS locations periodically over 3G, and had multiple week-long battery life. The 'lost' packages could be tracked and it could be determined where they ended up. Mail fraud is a federal crime, but if it became a big national story with media shining light on the person(s) who were caught doing it, then it would likely result in some change, people going to prison, and the system improving to better serve the recipients of packages.
Re:About as scientific as Wakefield study (Score:5, Interesting)
RTFA
each person receiving one package prominently branded as 'Atheist' merchandise, and one not
So equal numbers marked and unmarked. Can't get more equal than 1:1 ratio. (actually this was in the summary, so RTFS).
They all left Berlin
The "origination point" was outside the US. Packages that did not go through the US were not delayed or lost. Wherever in the US the problem is, the problem is at the USPS. Whether some locations in the US may or may not treat marked "atheist" mail better or worse does not make the general issue any better.
If I had a piece of earwax every time some religious person tried to make up excuses for his fellow religious men, I'd have more dollars worth or earwax than you would have.
FWIW, one of the 89 unmarked packages was lost too, so USPS is doing a bad job either way.
Europe and Germany? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is Germany suddenly no longer part of Europe?
Another possibility (Score:1, Interesting)
This is only one sample and not repeated, therefore not proof.
What I would like to see is the distribution of the missing parcels. I would check the tracking on the missing packages and see if they were on the same truck. If they were on the same truck did that truck have an accident?
Cover up or black out any old labels and markings (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone who's ever actually sent a package through USPS should know that they explicitly recommend you destroy or cover any non-USPS related markings or labels, explaining that it may lead to delays or failure to deliver.
=Smidge=
Re:"10 times more likely to be lost" (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, 178 packages.
How do you get that, from 11 missing out of 178? Even if had been 11 out of 89, it wouldn't be 'the majority'.
10 out of 89 'Atheist' branded packages were 'lost'. 1 out of 89 non-branded packages were lost.
Heh.
Their evidence suggesting the USPS discriminates against atheism is a hell of a lot stronger than any religion has for the existence of their Gods.
Re:Another possibility (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm sure there's something to be said about blindly accepting the results of flawed experiments so long as they match your beliefs here...
Re:Maybe... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Maybe... (Score:5, Interesting)
The job description for Christian is to spread the word.
Atheists have no such commission, strictly voluntary.
Also, the definition of Christian is used pretty damn loosely around here.
Most claiming Christianity aren't. They just claim it because they attend church or got dunked in a baptismal pool at some time or another.
There is no Christianity in their life outside the church, but they tell themselves they are Christians and gain an unworthy sense of superiority by holding others up to their " standard", whatever that is.
These people are the real reason Atheism is popular.
Case in point, the story of the founder of the Satan Church, Anton LaVey, who confirmed his oft told story to me.
He was an organ player for a travelling carnival, playing the strip shows and on Sunday there was a tent service he would play with many of the same people showing up. The two faces shown by these people disgusted Anton to the point of a formal protest. He founded Satan Church and wrote the Satanic Bible, not as a religion proper, but a protest against the duality he saw in "Christians". Like $cientology, he even boasted star power like Sammy Davis Jr.(that was a Baphomet medallion around his neck, not St.anything.) and Jane Mansfield (just lost her head over it, lol)
I reaffirm the original poster who said "Most atheists are worse than Christians about preaching their beliefs at any cost." This has been my experience. I would even put $cientologists and Subgeniuses ahead of Christians on that list, as well.
Re:"10 times more likely to be lost" (Score:5, Interesting)
So when they repeat the experiment, and they lose 11 of the marked packages and 0 of the unmarked does is suddenly become "USPS loses infinitely more of our packages" or conversely 10 of one and 2 of the other "5 times more likely"
I don't even know the name of your logical fallacy, but creating a situation which didn't happen in your mind and then commenting on it is definitely one of them.
There's also the issue of controlling for sample bias, I'm guessing that the recipients were either existing punters or friends (hence participating in the experiment) and could thus conveniently "lose" their marked packages
And I'm sure you're a rapist and mass murderer.
Re:correlation (Score:5, Interesting)
Hard to see how the 9:1 ratio of lost packages could be such an anomaly though...
It's not the ratio - it's the fact that it's based on only 10 events. Just think - if one more non-branded package had gone through, the ratio would have halved. When would that next parcel have been lost? Would it have been on the 90th send, or the 180th? We don't know. If you were trying for statistical rigour, you'd want to repeat the experiment until you were satisfied that a few extra events on either side wouldn't have a significant event. Consider, if they'd had 90 branded lost, and 10 non-branded lost, the ratio would have made exactly the same as presented, but an extra event on either side would have had a far lower impact on the actual ratio.
Re:Maybe... (Score:2, Interesting)
+5 Insightful? Slashdot is more historically ignorant than I thought. The Third Reich was was considerably *anti*-Christian, as it put God above the Furher. Crucifixes in classrooms were replaced by photos of Hitler. "Gott mit Uns" was a traditional saying for German military belt buckles (They were used extensively in World War I). The SS (who were the actual Nazi troops) did NOT have this motto--they had "Meine Ehre heisst Treue" (My Honor is Loyalty) instead.
Re:Maybe... (Score:5, Interesting)
In the event that their belief system were true, either A. That wouldn't be my parents in heaven (whiping out the memories that shape a person, makes it no longer the same person per my definitions) or B. Christians really are heartless people putting on a guise... no rational caring being could calmly sit by while 2/3rds of the worlds population is tortured for all of eternity... if they can they are monsters.
Re:Maybe... (Score:5, Interesting)
As an atheist, I always try to be sensitive to other people's beliefs (except on Slashdot) and I don't go around criticising anyone's belief systems unless they're trying to convert me. I did once get into a discussion with a Hare Krishna about why he should convert to worshipping Cthulhu, but it was good natured and he was the one who asked me about my beliefs.