North Korea Declares a State of War 628
paysonwelch writes "North Korea has declared a state of war against South Korea, stating that neither peace nor war has ended. Quoting the news release via Reuters: '1. From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war and all the issues arousing between the north and the south will be dealt with according to the wartime regulations.' The DPRK goes on to say that this will be a 'blitz' war and that they will regain control of the south, and destroy U.S. bases in the process."
Great line from the declaration: "[The U.S.] should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past." A senior U.S. official called this statement "pot-banging and chest-thumping." The official said, "North Korea is in a mindset of war, but North Korea is not going to war."
Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
IIRC, North Korea has declared war on the South multiple times since the armistice. In short, it's nothing new.
NK has had particularly bad farm yields and has trouble feeding it's army - recently China returned 12 NK soldiers that tried to escape. In years past, this wouldn't have happened as NK was keen to always make sure the Army got food but rations were cut last year. It needs an increase in foreign aid to hold itself up. That's what all this sword rattling is about. I hope that everyone lets them drop.
They got the wrong idea from the Korean War (Score:5, Insightful)
You know you're seriously off the rails when you start provoking the planet's grand champions at killing people and breaking things and Russia and China are telling you to calm down.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
What happens when the NK leadership gets to a point where they feel they have nothing to lose by attacking?
No more rhetorics (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me that the North Korean leadership has just spent all of its rhetorical ammo. If the next thing out of Kim's mouth isn't a launch code and an authorization to launch a nuclear tipped missile he's just ruined his credibility. And North Korea does not even have a nuclear tipped missile.
This is very dangerous, because this means that at some time before the next time Kim wants to blackmail South Korea and the US he is going to have to use enough force that his threats will regain credibility. I don't think there will be a major war, but I think a minor exchange of fire, at least, is inevitable at some point in the not too distant future if Kim wants to stay in power.
I wonder what his generals and other top officials in Pyongyang are whispering to one another when he can't hear. I guess the time to stage a coup without looking like total traitors would be a couple of months after this blows over.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
Unified Korea and scores of dead North Koreans.
But the people in North Korea have created this mess, so it's only right they take the heaviest losses.
Re:This little guy (Score:5, Insightful)
Can someone explain to me what it is that gives such a small country that has comparably weak military (they are ranked number 28 in the world according to http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp [globalfirepower.com]) and pretty much zero chance of surviving a week in a real war the balls to be so dickish and war-hungry?
It keeps working.
Re:Actually scary (Score:4, Insightful)
Japan decided to go to war against its largest trading partner in the 1930's. Germany did the same against it largest trading partner during the same era. Sometimes people deciding to start a war don't really care about trade relationships or economic damage that might come from a full scale war.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
Unified Korea and scores of dead North Koreans.
This, and its the last thing that China wants. Korea would become the next Germany in 25 or so years.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
The North Korean military isn't any match for the South Koreans & the USA. Everyone knows that.
The real threat is because Seoul is so close to the border. You'll get thousands (millions?) of artillery shells fired at Seoul, resulting in lots of civilian casualties & destruction.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
No it won't, for two reasons.
For 60 years they've been instilling in their populous that their Dear Leader is a god (or god-like). While many fear and loath him, any that have shown open dissent have been killed or put in re-education camps. The population will not rise up against the NK leadership.
For 60 years NK has been digging in and building weapons. They may not be as technically sophisticated as their neighbor, they may not have the weapons technology available to the U.S., but they have weapons and personell in quantity. Technically, they have one of the largest armies in the world, with over a million active and eight million reserve. A conflict with NK could drag on for years.
Re:They should call their bluff already (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, in the '00s, Bush tore up the Agreed Framework negotiated by Carter, under which NK received regular food and fuel aid in exchange for placing their nuclear weapons program under international inspection. "Axis of Evil", he said. "No more blackmail", he said. So NK ripped the UN inspector's seals of their uranium, built a nuke, and detonated it. Bush came running back, and now the crazy Norks are still demanding food and fuel aid while rattling their sabres, but their sabre is nuclear.
Heckuvajob, Bushie!
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What if US stealth candy bombed Kim's house? (Score:5, Insightful)
That doesn't seem useful.
Kim Jong Un knows that the US can kill him at any time, Kim Jong Un also knows that the North Korean military leadership can kill him at any time. He has to appease both, which he does by rattling the saber enough to please the military and not quite enough to make the US really angry.
Re:They got the wrong idea from the Korean War (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Nothing New (Score:4, Insightful)
I seriously wonder how quickly their beliefs would change should food, clothing, medicine, etc become readily available by the "imperialist aggressors".
If I'm cold, sick, and on the brink of starvation, it's not going to take much for me to ditch whatever current beliefs I have.
Re:Ut oh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Obama isn't bending, so North Korea is losing face. The only thing they can do to regain face is a military victory. In the past this has involved attacking ships and shelling islands. Let's not kid ourselves, while a war with North Korea is unlikely, they still might kill people just up to the point where the US and SK would respond.
Re:Nothing New (Score:3, Insightful)
This, and its the last thing that China wants. Korea would become the next Germany in 25 or so years.
Not exactly. East Germany's economy was much more developed than South Korea, yet unification almost crippled the Germany economy. Unification with N. Korea is not going to be an easy task.
Re:US Desires this - nad deliberately PROVOKED it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Sounds like you are describing the inverted dictatorship in EU, next year. And the US in the next 5.
They have a dictatorship of a Family. You have one of a Bank.
Big whooping difference.
Re:Ut oh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Obama isn't bending, so North Korea is losing face. The only thing they can do to regain face is a military victory. In the past this has involved attacking ships and shelling islands. Let's not kid ourselves, while a war with North Korea is unlikely, they still might kill people just up to the point where the US and SK would respond.
Saw an editorial yesterday that said what might be different this time is that Junior is inexperienced at how the game is played, and might think actually starting some sh*t is a good idea.
Millions of people stand to get killed - Seoul is targetted by a *huge* collection of conventional artillery - but if he thinks there's any outcome that won't leave him as a smoking hole in the ground, he's delu...
Uh-oh, the world's in trouble.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
N. Korea attacked first.
No, Han did.
Re:They ARE the memo (Score:5, Insightful)
And 11 million lives in Seoul that are pretty much forfeit in under 5 minutes when the shelling starts. No profit for Haliburton and other Contractors if all that's left is a smoking hole in the ground. Read up on the Korean DMZ, then you'll see exactly why te USMIC doesn't want to touch this. And exactly why they DIDN'T touch it under Bush and his warmonger cronies when they had clear evidence that N Korea was seeking Nuclear Capability.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
the second the first rounds are fired in earnest by either side or the first troops cross the DMZ, Seoul is going to be leveled by the massive, emplaced and already aimed, artillery barrage that NK has had set up for decades
Nonsense. Just surf on in to Seoul with google street view and the first thing you will notice is that it has hardly any tall buildings. It is a huge sprawling expanse of low concrete and steel buildings. An artillery barrage to level it would take months or years like in Syria, and that just isn't going to happen. A few hours at most, and Seoul is so big that the damage would be only a small fraction. And at the first sign of trouble the whole population will be in the subways and other prepared shelters. Don't imagine that this scenario has not been anticipated.
Re:Didn't they get the memo? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, getting out of the country would be easy, but what are the odds that commanders #2 through #9 will happily roll over and accept #1's sudden rise to dominance? Any disruption in the line of succession will destabilize the balance of power within the government, and the fallout could cost a whole lot of innocent people their lives. Would you want that on your conscience? Provoking international action on the other hand might seem like a relatively clean solution - any invasion would likely start with a tactical strike against the military elite. And knowing that, the generals might well be willing to accept voluntary banishment with all the severance package they can plunder if faced with an actual invasion.
Of course any such invasion would require the cooperation of China to avoid ballooning onto the global stage, which has been why they've been in such a comfortable position for so long. If China's getting tired of their antics though then that protective umbrella is rapidly fading, and all that remains is for they and the US to agree on what the new government should look like and how many puppets each of them get in it. The other regional powers might have some voice as well if only as a moderating influence - i.e. China might prefer that a couple puppets answer to Japan rather than directly to the US in order to diffuse our influence.
Re:Nothing New (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't it much more logical that it was simply a struggle for control over Korea by the more powerful nations, that ended in a deadlock?
Korea had never been a potent independent economic player in history--I very much doubt the current status of the south, for example, was something anyone from outside Korea was expecting.
It's *not* that big a country, bro. Your argument doesn't make any sense, and you have no evidence, so please don't spread drivel. Bad enough we have Glen Beck conjecturing on camera...
Re:US Desires this - nad deliberately PROVOKED it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm calling bullshit. What possible (non-conspiracy theory related) reason could the US have for provoking a war with North Korea? What would we stand to gain? Obama has already been re-elected, the economy isn't doing great but also isn't awful, there's no oil involved, and the US public is already war-weary and has little stomach for another one.
I think the overwhelming majority of Americans just want NK to shut up and stop aggravating the situation...
Just partisan stupidity (Score:5, Insightful)
Many hardcore lefties who have the tribal, partisan mentality of "My side good, other side bad," will keep blaming Bush for whatever is bad until there is another high enough profile Republican to blame, probably another president.
Same shit you see now from the righties. Obama has suddenly become the new favourite target for everything bad. Clinton was the favourite but now it is Obama. He's the newest, most powerful "other guy" so they dump all the bad shit at his feet.
Unfortunately, many humans are still very tribalistic and you see it in how they relate to politics. Their tribe, whatever they identify that as, are the good guys, the other tribe is the bad guys and thus all the bad things are the other guys fault.
Re:This little guy (Score:5, Insightful)
North Vietnam defeated a South Vietnam that had the American military removed from it along with any foreign aid to help South Vietnam able to pay for its army... and a North Vietnam reinforced by Russian equipment and foreign aid.
It took North Vietnamese tanks and massive infantry formations to conquer Saigon.... it wasn't just a "popular uprising" of the South Vietnamese people like is sometimes portrayed.
Had the U.S. Congress really wanted to win in Vietnam, they could have appropriated the money, sent the necessary soldiers, and given a blank check to the U.S. President at the time (Richard Nixon... somebody Congress really wanted to get rid of at the time) with a formal declaration of war. That never happened, thus your logic really fails here.
America abandoned South Vietnam and let that country go away in defeat, but America was not really "defeated" in Vietnam. It was just another front in the Cold War from an American perspective.