State Secrets, No-Fly List Showdown Looms 216
schwit1 writes "The Obama Administration and a federal judge in San Francisco appear to be headed for a showdown over the controversial state secrets privilege in a case about the U.S. government's 'no-fly' list for air travel. U.S. District Judge William Alsup is also bucking the federal government's longstanding assertion that only the executive branch can authorize access to classified information. From the article: 'The disputes arose in a lawsuit Malaysian citizen and former Stanford student Rahinah Ibrahim filed seven years ago after she was denied travel and briefly detained at the San Francisco airport in 2005, apparently due to being on the no-fly list. In an order issued earlier this month and made public Friday, Alsup instructed lawyers for the government to "show cause" why at least nine documents it labeled as classified should not be turned over to Ibrahim's lawyers. Alsup said he'd examined the documents and concluded that portions of some of them and the entirety of others could be shown to Ibrahim's attorneys without implicating national security.'"
Smoke and Mirrors. (Score:2, Interesting)
Not sure what disgusts me more here, reading how TSAs due diligence with assessing no-fly status is suddenly a matter of national security, or the fact that this was an issue in 2005 and our wonderful legal system is just now getting around to it.
Gotta love it when judges are arguing over bullshit that is so damn old that former Presidents barely remember authorizing it.
Obama will be retired and tending to his marijuana crops by the time we bring up his policies for legal review...
Captcha = erasable. Yup, sounds about right. Your rights are being erased every day.
Re:sudden outbreak of judicial mental clarity (Score:3, Interesting)
Alsup, a Clinton appointee, is riding the government pretty hard in recent rulings. However, it's hard to argue that he's exhibiting an anti-government bias. He twice dismissed Ibrahim's claims against federal agencies, but the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reversed his decisions . Now, Alsup seems determined to move the case forward. A trial is currently scheduled for November.
Boston Legal episode..."Nuts" (Score:5, Interesting)
I like David E Kelley's Boston Legal in general. Granted, lots of people hated his shows because his main characters tended to go on rants and act as mouth-pieces for his political views, but I enjoyed his shows and think that even if you disagree that he would at least make good points about them.
Anyway, there was an episode about the No Fly list and that monologue always stuck with me.
The main character (Alan Shore) went on and on about how poorly contrived it was and how INSANE it was that a system that cost SOOOO much money was less advanced than an iPod that fits in his pocket. That the iPod could store meta-data AND pictures for 20,000+ items but the No Fly List only handled names. Names which could be faked AND shared with others.
How it's insane that in a country that has Google, Apple, and even small-yet-innovative companies that the contract went to a system as worthless as what became the no-fly-list.
The plot-point was "Denny Crane" couldn't even fly on his private jet because his name was an alias for a terrorist. Then the main character had a dozen+ people named Denny Crane from the Boston area to come in to show how ridiculous it was they couldn't fly (even the children).
The monologue was found here: http://www.boston-legal.org/script/BL03x12.pdf [boston-legal.org]
But the delivery of it was quite solid and emotional.
No-fly list should be a no fly (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't wrap my brain around the no-fly list. You can't find out if your on it until you're denied boarding. You can't find out how you got on it. You can't get off it once your on it. That's constitutional how? Oh, I forgot. Bush tossed the constitution out on it's ear 9/12/01.
Why doesn't some hacker group like anonymous start putting politicians and staffers on the damn thing so we can all watch the fun?
Re:sudden outbreak of judicial mental clarity (Score:4, Interesting)
Risky, not really. Remember who owns the media companies. If people are not able to read about reality, they don't know reality. Look at the President of Poland for an example of how media completely controlled the story, and that was a pretty big plane crash. Most of the "free" world had no idea he was anti-EU currency.
Re:sudden outbreak of judicial mental clarity (Score:4, Interesting)
Why did you only mention to pro-life judges?
Neither Souter nor Stevens is "pro-life". They repeatedly voted to uphold abortion rights, most significantly in Planned Parenthood v Casey [wikipedia.org], but in other cases as well.
Re:There should never have been a non-fly list (Score:4, Interesting)
I tend to agree with you but there are two problems some are going argue of a legal perspective. There is no clearly enumerated right to travel. Yes the 10th Amendment should have enough tooth to cover you and I there but sadly a century of legal precedent (WRONG IMHO) does not support us. The second problem is like the parent poster did people are always going to insist as long as some mode of travel remains open to you; government should be allowed to restrict any particular mode of travel. Naturally all the particular ones will be all the practical ones.
What you do have is an explicit right to free assembly! Its there in plain ink! Now to assemble you must by definition go to where the assembly is taking place, and be there at the time it is taking place. Because of this I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that government should NOT be allowed to interfere with private travel as doing so interferes with your right to assemble with others. They should have to prepared to initiate some evidence based criminal process with court orders and warrants or leave you to your business.
Re:sudden outbreak of judicial mental clarity (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:No tech content? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the heart of it. The State Secrets Doctrine in its modern form has its roots in a coverup by the Air Force of its own negligence that led to a plane crash that killed three RCA engineers. When their widows sued and requested the crash report in discovery, the Air Force refused citing State Secrets. Eventually, the Supreme Court upheld the Air Force's right to not turn over the document without any judge having ever looking at what it contained, but rather, just trusting the Government to be honest.
Fast forward many decades, the report is declassified, and guess what, all it contained was a record of poor maintenance and a failure to install manufacturer recommended heat shields in the engine to prevent the exact type of engine fire that occurred and caused the crash.
Great interview with the granddaughter who finally got her hands on the document:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/383/origin-story?act=2#play [thisamericanlife.org]