Schneier: Metadata Equals Surveillance 191
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Bruce Schneier writes that lots of people discount the seriousness of the NSA's actions by saying that it's just metadata — after all the NSA isn't really listening in on everybody's calls — they're just keeping track of who you call. 'Imagine you hired a detective to eavesdrop on someone,' writes Schneier. 'He might plant a bug in their office. He might tap their phone.' That's the data. 'Now imagine you hired that same detective to surveil that person. The result would be details of what he did: where he went, who he talked to, what he looked at, what he purchased — how he spent his day. That's all metadata.' When the government collects metadata on the entire country, they put everyone under surveillance says Schneier. 'Metadata equals surveillance; it's that simple.'"
Metadata is the most important data (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a basic fact for anyone dealing with any substantive volume of data. The details are of no interest to anyone in power, but patterns are.
The dividing line people will have here is whether the 4th amendment(and the human right it's based on) protects a right to privacy or a right against freely targed witchhunt prosecutions. This spying won't especially invade the first, but could easily be construed to lead to the second.
Re:Metadata is the most important data (Score:5, Insightful)
Give people time... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's gonna take awhile for everyone to get upto speed on this whole 'spying on everyone' thing.
Heck just 5 years ago if you made the statement 'the goverment is spying on all of us'. You'd get some sort of response involving tinfoil and hats even tho it was 100% true 5 years ago as it is today.
And now... People are starting to realize it wasn't just crazy tinfoil hat ramblings... Give them some time and they'll wise up. Somewhat...
Nother 10 years we might be able to even start fixing the problem. But i wouldn't bet on it.
Re:The USSC has said otherwise (Score:5, Insightful)
US President Hides His Metadata (Score:5, Insightful)
The President of the United states refuses to divulge his visitor lists claiming that it might divulge privileged information. This has been going on for years under presidents of both parties. Visitor lists are metadata (who he talked to, not what they talked about). If the president recognizes his metadata is confidential, how can he claim other peoples' metadata is not confidential?
Re:Metadata is the most important data (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because the importance of an inalienable right is judged by the number of the amendment. Good thing they are only violating our 4th amendment rights in passing on the way to the 2nd amendment.
I propose Americans get metadata for politicians (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The USSC has said otherwise (Score:4, Insightful)
The fundamental difference between this and the Smith case is that the agencies had to do their own recording to accomplish it, as opposed to demanding (and getting, whether coerced, cooperative, or compelled) records. I have been saying for weeks that the most disturbing part of this is that even if your data is handed over by the telcos, you have no recourse because the documents searched were not yours in the first place. Even with the fourth amendment.
Re:So in other words... (Score:5, Insightful)
The metadata is how we figure you out (Score:5, Insightful)
the metadata is how we figure you out.
the data is just the evidence when we finally put you in jail for thoughtcrimes.
Re:police (Score:5, Insightful)
You guys still haven't understood you lived in a police state ?
What's it gonna take ??
When they start quartering troops (e.g. bots) in our houses (e.g. computers).
oh.
wait.
NSA Definition of Metadata and it's official usage (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Metadata is the most important data (Score:5, Insightful)
At least the NSA isn't going to tell my employer to fire me.
No, no no. Oh, no, of course not. They wouldn't tell anyone to fire anyone.
What happens is men in suits come to your office and speak with the boss behind closed doors. Then they speak with the coworkers. They ask questions about what you were doing, how you work with other people. Has anyone seen you get angry, raise your voice, raise your fist, get a little violent? Do you have weapons? Do you bring them to work?
The details are fuzzy, but when I worked as a student worker at a big university back in the 90's, exactly this happened to one of my coworkers, courtesy of the CIA. The men introduced themselves as such, didn't suggest that we couldn't speak about the meeting (though he suggested we not discuss the boss's closed door meeting), but isn't that the point? Everyone knew the guy was being investigated for something. Things got awkward, and eventually the guy was let go because nobody wanted to work with him anymore.
Re:Not just the NSA (Score:5, Insightful)
Speak for yourself. The Slashdot audience is global and the problem is global.
Quite right: an apathetic public gave the government the ability (not the right) to violate its founding principles. The terrorist attacks were a pretext to accelerate the trend, not the real reason.
Never yield (Score:5, Insightful)
Politicians stole the word "metadata" from computer science, and declared it on-limits for warrantless spying. This is a sophistry, invented out of whole cloth.
The king of England would have used phone metadata to round up the Founding Fathers in quick order. Therefore government doesn't get to do this.
Stop government from building the tools of tyrrany to begin with. That is the meaning of the Constitution.
Re:Not just the NSA (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Metadata is the most important data (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Metadata is the most important data (Score:5, Insightful)
Citizen you are free to associate with whomever you want, we'll just record who it was, where, when, for how long, and how that compares with previous meetings.
Re:Metadata is the most important data (Score:5, Insightful)
The technology that Google Voice uses, and that Android phones use, and even iPhones use to convert voice to text would allow them to grind away at those recorded conversations and weed out the "Honey pick up some milk on the way home" conversations and dump these to save space.
Meanwhile any talk of interesting subjects would get added to the text database for searching, and the audio saved.
Nobody "listened" to that call. But a computer did, and translated it, and cataloged it and made it searchable. And a human will listen to it, and so will the judge and jury any time the government wants to hang you out to dry for getting an ounce of weed, or a stock tip, or any little discrepancy on your taxes.
Now that these abuses are known, I actually expect to see the data used more often. Because they don't need to worry about disclosing a secret project any more. We will be treated to all sorts of "see how surveillance is good for you" stories cherry picked and praises sung when the meth dealer gets caught or the pedophile gets outed. We are all in for the "Frogs in a kettle" treatment.